Sitka Spruce Mast, how to add antenna and masthead light?

[joshs]

Do I run it up the outside or try to bring it into the interior near the bottom and back out near the top? What are the pros and cons of each method? Also, does anyone know of a good antenna and good light to select? I'm a novice at electronics.
Thank you in advance,

Josh

[Sailor]

Is the mast already built? How big is the mast? Deck stepped or keel stepped? Does this mast get set up each time you use the boat or does it stay up all the time. Pictures are good to help us help you if the mast is already built. If not, what design is she? Maybe someone here has experience with that design.
Sorry for answering your question with more questions but we'll need to know more to best be able to help you.
Welcome Aboard.

[wizbang 13]

Probably outside if the mast has been built .
Over time, boats tend to have a BUNDLE of wires going aloft. Have no fear, they soon disappear into the rigging.
Just stuff to chew on.....
.... LED bulbs can re place most conventional bulbs now, for sailing.LOw energy draw.
....Steaming (motoring) and sailing use different set of lights.

[Dan McCosh]

Running wires on the outside of a wood mast is a pain, since it makes it more difficult to maintain the mast finish, and you end up with numerous fastening holes. The problem is feeding wires inside the spar. This usually is difficult, if not impossible, depending on how the interior is blocked, and your access to running the wires. We moved the wiring to the inside during a major rebuild of the spar, but I would have been difficult, if not impossible, to simply feed the wires down the spar otherwise.

[David G]

Agree with wiz. If we're building a new mast, we'll ask the owner if what wants internal & what external. Construction varies depending upon the answer. So if it's an existing spar... go outside. Unless you're willing to involve a knowledgable spar guy... and open a Pandora's box of unknowns.

But - above all. BED your fasteners. All fasteners. Now and forever. Do it really well. Check on it regularly. Sitka spruce is not very rot-resistant. And most of the spar repair work I do stems from bad/no fastener bedding.

[Bflat]

Agree with wiz. If we're building a new mast, we'll ask the owner if what wants internal & what external. Construction varies depending upon the answer. So if it's an existing spar... go outside. Unless you're willing to involve a knowledgable spar guy... and open a Pandora's box of unknowns.

But - above all. BED your fasteners. All fasteners. Now and forever. Do it really well. Check on it regularly. Sitka spruce is not very rot-resistant. And most of the spar repair work I do stems from bad/no fastener bedding.

What's a good way to bed fasteners in wooden spars? Is "fill and drill" with epoxy a good start?

[David G]

What's a good way to bed fasteners in wooden spars? Is "fill and drill" with epoxy a good start?

That would be the best of various choices. I'd still put goo under the hardware. Belt & suspenders for inaccessible locations. Dophinite/Boatyard Bedding Compound is one way. Butyl tape is another.

[Jay Greer]

Where epoxy will work for bedding fasteners, I prefer old fashiioned bee's wax for several reasons. Aside from being cheaper than using epoxy, if you have to remove them in the future, they will be easier to remove and, they are easy to install as the wax is a natural lubricant and a sealer of the wood fibers. In addition, it is also anti-fungal thereby, preventing rot from getting even a hint of a foot hold. By the same token, I still prefer Dolfinite for bedding fittings the fasteners hold down. I try to avoid putting things together so tight that they can't be removed or taken apart if ever the occasion arises to call for a repair job.

When I get a new box of fasteners, I stoke up my favorite music and the shop stove or hot plate and melt a chunk bee's wax in a tuna can. Then I spend a few quiet minutes dipping the tips of the screws in the wax which, insures I will have them ready for the next job ahead. Kind of Zen you know.
Jay

[wizbang 13]

I'm saying send the bundle up a shroud, not "screw up" the spar.
Good tape lasts for years. A second "worming " of tape lasts years again.

[David G]

Jay,

It sounds like you two are talking different techniques. It appears you are talking about lubing your screws with epoxy? He, I think, is talking about casting a larger annulus of epoxy in the area where the fasteners will go, letting it cure, then screwing and bedding in normal fashion.

[Bflat]

Jay,

It sounds like you two are talking different techniques. It appears you are talking about lubing your screws with epoxy? He, I think, is talking about casting a larger annulus of epoxy in the area where the fasteners will go, letting it cure, then screwing and bedding in normal fashion.

Yup, that's what I meant.

[Bob Cleek]

I'm with Wiz on this one. If you can't "go up the middle," make an "end run." Running wire up the spar requires a lot of screwing and causes more damage to the spar that you'd really want. Running up a shroud is much better all the way around and easily maintained and modified. Put a waterproof deck plug at the bottom end, so you can easily unplug it when you pull the stick.

[Jay Greer]

Jay,

It sounds like you two are talking different techniques. It appears you are talking about lubing your screws with epoxy? He, I think, is talking about casting a larger annulus of epoxy in the area where the fasteners will go, letting it cure, then screwing and bedding in normal fashion.

No, I am talking about bee's wax and not epoxy.
Jay

[lupussonic]

Mines a lugger, so outside the mast would get chewed by the traveller, and no permanent shrouds to tape to. I routered a channel up it, T shaped, and bedded the cable in, and capped it off.

[Dave Hadfield]

I went up the outside of the Sitka spruce mast on Drake when rewired.

I made the cable-clamps out of copper water pipe. I cut off about 1/2", smoothed the inside edges of the resulting ring with a stone mounted in a drill, pounded it flat with a 3/8 bolt trapped inside, drilled a screw hole, then ground the end off so you can open it up. They look good against the wood, and the copper discourages rot.

Dave

[joshs]

Yes the mast is built. It's a 50-year-old mast. I'm sorry I was away and neglected to read this forum. I suppose I could fish the wires through the mass but it seems like a difficult problem and there aren't any obvious holes.


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[joshs]

It's a folk boat. So the mast is about 30 feet. And it's Deck stepped.


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[David G]

No, I am talking about bee's wax and not epoxy.
Jay

Oops, I misrepresented your comments. Apologies.

But, yes, he was talking about the epoxy annulus strategy, not traditional bedding bogs.

Traditional bedding bogs work just fine, if used and maintained. The epoxy annulus version adds another layer of protection.

[Jay Greer]

For those of you who are into extra expense, extra fuss and sticky fingers, epoxy is just fine.
Jay

[Dan McCosh]

It's a folk boat. So the mast is about 30 feet. And it's Deck stepped.


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Aren't most Folkboat masts solid, anyway?

[David G]

For those of you who are into extra expense, extra fuss and sticky fingers, epoxy is just fine.
Jay

Would you feel better if he used g-flex? <G>

Seriously - the notion of using the epoxy annulus, as another buldward against incipient rot, way up where it's gonna take unstepping the mast to do repair work, on a species that's already prone to rot... makes perfect sense to me, and I recommend it. YMMV, of course.

[joshs]

More details:

The mast has a vertical seam front and back. Therefore I assume it's not solid.

It's presently stripped and unstepped for the winter. It will probably be unstepped annually, as I live in Chicago.

Three was very little, almost no blackened wood on this 50 year old spar. It was under the goodneck traveler hardware. One screw hole was blackened about 1/2 inch cubed area.

I like the idea of running the wires up a shroud.

The boat has double shrouds that don't run all the way up the mast. They attach to a one-piece jump spreader unit. I could easily attach something to the stainless steel spreader unit.

I anticipate needing an anchor light and an antenna for my vhf radio, because I will be cruising around the Great Lakes which could leave me further than a handheld radio might reach.

All your help is greatly appreciated. I'm a brand new boat owner




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[Dan McCosh]

I mentioned the solid mast mainly because the Folkboat was originally designed with a bendy rig which allowed easy depowering of the main, and the solid mast was intended to help withstand this action. A solid mast would eliminate the option of wires inside the mast. If the wires to the top of the mast are only a masthead light and an antenna, it would seem that running the up the shrouds would be a simple solution--although I didn't think the Folkboat had jumper wires to the top of the mast. Wiring for an LED masthead light could be quite small guage, which simplifies the issue. Personally, I would look at routing a groove for the wires, as it could be a tidy solution as well.

[joshs]

Dan,
She's a Canadian built folkboat, 1965. Hence it's a bit unconventional in some regards, such as having a deck-stepped mast.

Running the wires up the shroud and then up the jumper shroud means that I won't have to add much more than the antenna and light to the mast itself. I think that's a huge relief to me as I was preparing myself to try fishing wires through the mast.

I'm calling this a win for the wooden boat forum!

Joah

I mentioned the solid mast mainly because the Folkboat was originally designed with a bendy rig which allowed easy depowering of the main, and the solid mast was intended to help withstand this action. A solid mast would eliminate the option of wires inside the mast. If the wires to the top of the mast are only a masthead light and an antenna, it would seem that running the up the shrouds would be a simple solution--although I didn't think the Folkboat had jumper wires to the top of the mast. Wiring for an LED masthead light could be quite small guage, which simplifies the issue. Personally, I would look at routing a groove for the wires, as it could be a tidy solution as well.

[joshs]

Bob
I'm going with the up the shroud wiring plan. I've never heard of a waterproof deck plug


Can you recommend one --or a supplier-- for my antenna and masthead light?

Thanks

josh

I'm with Wiz on this one. If you can't "go up the middle," make an "end run." Running wire up the spar requires a lot of screwing and causes more damage to the spar that you'd really want. Running up a shroud is much better all the way around and easily maintained and modified. Put a waterproof deck plug at the bottom end, so you can easily unplug it when you pull the stick.

[James Robertson]

Hello, I'm new to this forum, and not sure if this thread is still active in 2023, but I have exactly the same situation on my boat. A solid spruce mast, and I'd like to have the VHF antenna and a masthead light on top. I like the idea of routing a groove and capping it off, and wondered if anyone had done this and what their experience was. I've had some doubts about weakening the mast, but I think with the cap piece epoxied into place that would not be an issue. Also thought 1/2" marine ply for the cap piece would be a stronger joint than solid spruce, and the contrast in the appearance of the 2 woods would not bother me. Any thoughts would be appreciated. mast schematic.jpg

[johngsandusky]

Hi James, welcome aboard!
I haven't had this challenge, but my inclination would be to use a similar wood to the mast for the cover. I also would leave the lower end unsealed in case water gets in anywhere. Good luck, keep us posted.

[Jim Ledger]

Hello, I'm new to this forum, and not sure if this thread is still active in 2023, but I have exactly the same situation on my boat. A solid spruce mast, and I'd like to have the VHF antenna and a masthead light on top. I like the idea of routing a groove and capping it off, and wondered if anyone had done this and what their experience was. I've had some doubts about weakening the mast, but I think with the cap piece epoxied into place that would not be an issue. Also thought 1/2" marine ply for the cap piece would be a stronger joint than solid spruce, and the contrast in the appearance of the 2 woods would not bother me. Any thoughts would be appreciated. mast schematic.jpg

I've routed a groove in a catboat mast to contain two conductors for a steaming light, two for a masthead light and coax for the antenna. I used a length of plywood with a slot cut down the center as a router guide. The ply was blocked and clamped to the mast. You can use either a top bearing bit or a collar and straight bit. I like a half inch straight bit with a collar and a plunge router. Put the groove on the forward side of the mast, which is where you will want the wires to exit. You won't need to plug the groove with anything stronger than the mast material. Matching the wood is best unless you do perfect work. Angle the spline down where the wires exit to shed water. You can fill the holes with caulk, bedding or wax to seal around the wires. I'd make the spline about a half inch deep over the wires.

A simple groove is easiet to make. I see no advantage to using a tee shaped groove like the one in the diagram

Jim

[lupussonic]

As I said ^^ I routered a T into my solid larch foremast and embedded the 7 core cable into it. Capped off and bedded with Sikaflex.

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[James Robertson]

Thank you all for your valuable advice and photos - very nice job on the mast inset. I will tool up and make the jigs and the cap piece over the next few months and get this done in early May. I’ll post the photos/videos then. Thanks again. - Jim

p.s re: doing perfect work -. I did make something ‘perfect’ once. It was an acrylic pyramid with a 1” ball bearing rolling free inside. With a little patience you could manage to seat the ball in a recess in the middle of the base. I gave it to my wife as an executive toy when she got her first executive job, the object being of course to get all the balls in all the holes. She knocked it off her desk on day one and broke the tip off the top. There’s a moral in this story somewhere.

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