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Thread: An Ilur in PA

  1. #151
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    Default Re: An Ilur in PA

    Looking so nice, Chris! I may have missed this, but where did you find your cypress? It's very good-looking. Is it nice to work?

    Mike
    "near it, a small whale-boat, painted red and blue, the delight of the king's old age."

  2. #152
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    Default Re: An Ilur in PA

    Mike,

    I'm sure Chris will answer as well, but here in the Pittsburgh area cypress is available at a great lumber/millwork company called Mars Lumber (http://marslumber.com/). I get most of my wood from them for my custom furniture business as well asd boats. Cypress mills fine and is a pleasure to work with hand tools.

    Cheers,
    Garth

  3. #153
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    Default Re: An Ilur in PA

    Thanks Garth!

    Yes, cypress is indeed a pleasure to work with and on account of its high level of rot resistance very appropriate on a boat... particularly when your primary protection for floors and seats will be Deks Olje.

    So, yesterday I installed the hinges for the hatch. These are mostly recessed in order to minimize surface obstruction. I opted to make only the middle three slats into the hatch. It is still quite a big opening and will interfere somewhat less with the tiller. Final installation of all screws etc will be after painting.


  4. #154
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    Default Re: An Ilur in PA

    She is looking great, please keep the photos coming!

  5. #155
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  6. #156
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    Default Re: An Ilur in PA

    ah - what a lovely painting to behold on this very cold day in Western PA!

  7. #157
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    Default Re: An Ilur in PA

    It's been a busy weekend... all the while the weather in the 'burgh has been crazy... a high of 14 on Friday, then an ice storm and temps in the 50's on Saturday
    and Sunday temps in the teens again.

    While the temps were up, I availed myself of the opportunity and finally primed the inside - after removing the fitted floor boards and seats.

    Without a doubt, to me, this was by far the most egregious task to date in the build of Ilur. Sans fancy spraying equipment, I simply had to roll and brush where the roller would not go... this turned out to be an effort my bones are still complaining about.

    And I still have to go back an touch up a couple of spots.
    I anticipate with trepidation sanding this stuff.


  8. #158
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    Default Re: An Ilur in PA

    So, on Sunday I opted for more pleasant tasks:

    installing the carlins under the future deck and making my first spar... the bowsprit.

    BTW, this is one of my favorite hand tools. Lie-Nielsen makes amazing things.


    Carlins screwed and glued in:

    Last edited by cmosheh; 12-18-2016 at 05:57 PM.

  9. #159
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    Default Re: An Ilur in PA

    ...and then I shaped the bowsprit for which I had previously glued up a blank:



    1900 mm long; 70mm at its widest (where it runs through the bow iron) and tapering to 50mm diameter at the tip. The outboard part is round but for the inbound side I opted for a more oval shape with flattish sides. This will allow for a better (eventual) installation of the fitting that will connect it to the mast.





    This sprit is hollow - though not bird's mouth but rather following the somewhat simpler instructions suggested by F. Vivier. I am planning to use this same method for the other spars as well so, the much shorter sprit was a good way to get used to the method.
    Last edited by cmosheh; 12-18-2016 at 05:56 PM.

  10. #160
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    Default Re: An Ilur in PA

    The fussiness of epoxy coating and priming/painting this type of build may be the main dark side of the otherwise ingenious use of incorporating much of the interior furniture into the building jig.......plenty of interior corners and crannies to work into, with all that stuff in the way.......
    The build is coming along nicely. Carry on, and Merry Christmas.
    cheers,
    J

  11. #161
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    Default Re: An Ilur in PA

    Yes, John, I have certainly come to realize this draw-back... still relatively minor in the big scheme of things.
    Cheers to you and yours for a wonderful Holiday!
    C.

  12. #162
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    Default Re: An Ilur in PA

    As if you needed an excuse to buy a LN chisel plane. Great job. Love watching. Just got the new LN honing guide. Lovely....had to have it to go with the little block plane and dowel plane.

  13. #163
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    Default Re: An Ilur in PA

    After talking to guys here my plan was to wait and prime everything once its put together to save time and effort although your post has me wondering a bit now. I am thinking though either way you do it will be a pain so I will probably stick to my guns. The first crack at spars looks great and I will probably do the same and follow FVs when the time comes for my Beg Meil to get her spars.

    Great stuff and Merry Christmas!

    Bill in Halifax

  14. #164
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    Default Re: An Ilur in PA

    When Tim Cooke repainted his An Suire, he devised a clever way to roll the hull up on it's side for easier access.....a similar set up and an HVLP sprayer would make the interior painting a breeze.

  15. #165
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    Default Re: An Ilur in PA

    That is a brilliant idea, I will have to investigate how that was done and start planning that now. Spraying I would hope would cut down on sanding after the fact as well.

    The one issue I am looking into now is what brand of primer/paint to go with. I would like to find the right distributer here in Halifax so that I can stick with one company's product throughout this whole adventure.

  16. #166
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    Default Re: An Ilur in PA

    John, not sure that I have the luxury of space to maneuver the hull but I'd still be curious to see how Tim Cooke accomplished this. Do you recall where specifically Tim describes the procedure? Cheers! /C

  17. #167
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    Default Re: An Ilur in PA

    Quote Originally Posted by John hartmann View Post
    The fussiness of epoxy coating and priming/painting this type of build may be the main dark side of the otherwise ingenious use of incorporating much of the interior furniture into the building jig.......plenty of interior corners and crannies to work into, with all that stuff in the way.......
    The build is coming along nicely. Carry on, and Merry Christmas.
    cheers,
    J
    John,

    seems like there's a very familiar Ilur on the cover of the Jan/Feb issue of Small Craft Advisor--great photo!

    Tom
    You don't have to be prepared as long as you're willing to suffer the consequences.

    Jagular Goes Everywhere: (mis)Adventures in a $300 Sailboat. Book release November 2014.

  18. #168
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    Default Re: An Ilur in PA

    yeah! Isn't it great!
    Congrats to John and to the photographer, Christophe Matson, for such a great shot of Waxwing in action!

  19. #169
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    Default Re: An Ilur in PA

    Thanks guys. Christophe took a cracking photo for sure. That sail was a real romp, heading in from Jewell Island this past June in a fresh breeze. Chris, if you search Tim Cooke's blog archives you'll find his description of how he rolled An Suire to repaint her last spring.

  20. #170
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    Default Re: An Ilur in PA

    Got it. Quite a fancy setup Tim made there for An Suire! /C

  21. #171
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    Default Re: An Ilur in PA

    Sanding the primer was no easier than applying it - a lot more dusty though. While I had waited for the primer to cure I started to work on another spar, the yard. Both yard and boom will be hollow in the style as described by Vivier. I devised a variation on his method by introducing the designated taper already into the middle layer of the three-layer sandwich. This will make it a lot easier to create the squared spar before planing the octagonal shape. I accomplished this by gluing up the spar in two stages. Perhaps the pictures are self-explanatory.







    I elected to secure the services of a sprayer... just saying.

    I trust everyone had a wonderful and festive Holiday!
    Cheers!

    Chris

  22. #172
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    Default Re: An Ilur in PA

    First coat - somehow the color looks a lot lighter in this pic than actual.
    So much for the effects of artificial lighting.


  23. #173
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    Default Re: An Ilur in PA

    Wow!

    Graeme

  24. #174
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    Default Re: An Ilur in PA

    Quote Originally Posted by cmosheh View Post
    First coat - somehow the color looks a lot lighter in this pic than actual.
    So much for the effects of artificial lighting.
    Looks great!

  25. #175
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    Default Re: An Ilur in PA

    Second coat... the color called Summer Pear comes a little closer on this pic.

    George Kirby had matched my original paint sample perfectly but I had clearly underestimated the amount of paint needed for the inside. The outside was just smooth surfaces whereas the inside has so many nooks and crannies that it requires quite a bit more paint. I think one more quart should be sufficient but I ordered two quarts ... to have some extra - just in case. When I called George Kirby I learned that he keeps all special custom colors on file so once I told him what I wanted to re-order, he did not need me to send him another paint chip. Great!


  26. #176
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    Default Re: An Ilur in PA

    Still waiting on my order of bronze rudder gudgeons and pintles from Classic Marine.
    Apparently these are cast to order... and they are still waiting for the foundry.

    I am reluctant to complete the rudder assembly because the gudgeons are supposed to be bolted to the rudder head and that should be a lot easier to do before the assembly is screwed shut.

    John feel free to chime in


    Yesterday it was warmer and I could open my garage door so that I would have enough in-feed space on my little contractors table saw to saw my mast component logs. Each one will need to be scarfed and glued to mast length before the actual glue up can begin.

    In the meantime I pretty much finished the boom. Some pix to follow.

    I'll probably hold off with oiling and finishing of the boom until I actually start to rig the boat and see where exactly fittings for the main-sheet blocks and reefing will go. Planning to set up a slab reefing system and a very simple lazy jack system which will double as a quasi topping lift (when needed) so that I can reef without dropping the sail (and boom). Vivier designed only two reef points for the lug/sloop main because (1) the sail is smaller than on the other rig options and (2) part of the sail reduction is the dousing (or furling) of the jib. With a furler it will be possible to furl partially and thereby ensuring continued balance of effort.

  27. #177
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    Default Re: An Ilur in PA

    Boom with half-jaw... the half jaw serves to prevent the boom from drifting forward.
    The luff of the sail is tensioned via a down-haul that runs through a hole (and around the actual boom) near the leading edge of the jaw close to the boom.
    The tack line of the sail runs into the grove at the very tip of the boom underneath it and into a bee hole. This will ensure that the jib sheets can't somehow get caught on the leading tip of the boom.



    The boom is to port and jaw on starboard. The top of the boom is intentionally flat and not completely round... as are the "flattish" sides.



    The jaw is glued to the boom and secured in addition with two 10mm dowels and two #10 counter sunk bronze screws capped with thickened epoxy.
    Last edited by cmosheh; 01-12-2017 at 05:30 PM.

  28. #178
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    Default Re: An Ilur in PA

    Puttering around with some horn cleats I expect to be needing... Sapele and Maple


  29. #179
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    Default Re: An Ilur in PA

    ...figuring out how best to cut the scarfs on the 17' mast components



    ...then using the wedge to duplicate the correct angle on the counterpart



    It worked out pretty well...


  30. #180
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    Default Re: An Ilur in PA

    That's a neat trick.

  31. #181
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    Default Re: An Ilur in PA

    Making progress on the mast top now that the sheave and various bronze items arrived from Classic Marine.
    Still waiting for the second pintle.



    I opted to put a mast band at the top. This will make it a lot easier so set up a topping lift, possible lazy jacks and an attachment for the jib halyard.
    I had to work myself to a snug fit micro millimeter by micro millimeter.





    Last edited by cmosheh; 02-14-2017 at 11:20 PM.

  32. #182
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    Default Re: An Ilur in PA

    The oar lock pads are about 1/2 as tall as prescribed since I am not making the traditional oars designed by Vivier. With the bronze oar locks in place the pads will just add a little more strength to the gunwale. Using the same Eucalyptus Grandis I laminated for the false stem. It is a very hard wood and provides a contrast to the Sapele gunwale.



    Last edited by cmosheh; 02-14-2017 at 11:19 PM.

  33. #183
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    Default Re: An Ilur in PA

    Looking great: love all the bronze gear.
    PeterW

  34. #184
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    Default Re: An Ilur in PA

    I agree, looking really really nice.

  35. #185
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    Default Re: An Ilur in PA

    Hi, Chris--
    The boat is looking just lovely.....very nice work all 'round. To reply to post #176, yes, it would be well nigh impossible to attach the hardware to the rudder once you have closed up the rudderhead. When I did the final assembly of Waxwing's, I used a non permanent fixative (can't remember if it was sikaflex or 4200) and a few well placed screws so that I could disassemble the rudderhead for maintenance if need be.

  36. #186
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    Default Re: An Ilur in PA

    Thanks John! I am following your lead. I'll take some pictures as I go.

    Once I have the gudgeons installed, I'll epoxy the cheek with the pivot disk and then use a multi-caulk sealant (a West Marine product) which they say is a little easier to work with (for removing) than 4200. I am drilling through the pivot disk and run through it a 5/16 SS carriage bold which can be easily tightened on one side with a star knob. The top assembly will also be attached with the caulk and screws.

    I am still considering some type of retainer to keep the tiller securely attached.

  37. #187
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    Default Re: An Ilur in PA

    I think how it's designed is the rudder pivot disc is not glued to anything. Its held by four screws: two wood screws placed from each side of the rudder head at 90 degrees to miss each other. To remove the rudder for refinishing, you just unscrew the four screws, and the rudder with the wood bearing drops out.

    Are people not finding that it works?

    Second question, I see Francois has a deeper rudder for the Yawl version and the Ilur kits come with this one CNC cut out. He says to cut it down for other versions. Would the other rigs benefit from a deeper rudder to reduce a bit of weather helm, or are they perfectly balanced with the shallower 'original' size rudder? I can't see myself taking a jigsaw to that perfect CNC round and cutting it down even for the misainier.

  38. #188
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    Default Re: An Ilur in PA

    Edward, you are correct about the design of the pivot disc. As I was dry fitting the assembly, it seemed to me to be fussy--there is a certain (critical) amount of friction required from the rudder head cheek pieces on the rudder blade to let it pivot without binding, but with enough resistance so that the shock cord system will be enough to hold the blade fully down. It was actually a bit fidgety to get all of that working well.....I wound up epoxying the disc to one half of the rudder head assembly, and drilling a hole on-center, which houses a stainless bolt with a nylon cored stop nut--this lets me fine tune the friction more easily than with the four screws FV designed, though as you sussed, it will make dis-assembly for maintenance a more involved process. Not surprisingly, the shock cord tension is critical to holding the blade fully down when underway, and a non stretch hoisting line to get the raised blade as far out of the water as possible when the blade is up are also things which took tweaking over a couple of iterations before everything worked optimally. Additionally, there may a need at some point to access the bolts attaching the gudgeons, which nudged me to the assembly choices I made.

    With regard to the deeper blade, I have only sailed my lug yawl version of Ilur--it has a gentle and reassuring bit of weather helm which can be fine tuned with the mizzen; this past season, I added a Huntingford helm impeder so that I can be more relaxed when going forward to adjust snotter tension, coil a line, or rummage for a biscuit. In steady state conditions, with only minimal tension on the impeder, the boat will sail itself....mizzen trimmed for optimal helm balance, helm impeder lightly tensioned, and main eased to the point where it is thinking about wanting to luff--there is an area below the yard, above and behind the throat where the sail telegraphs her intentions......and she'll still round up in a puff if my hand is not on the tiller.
    as far as I know, there is as yet only one other Ilur that has splashed in this country. She is owned by Peter Mumford in the Boston area, and has the misainer rig and longer rudder blade. If he is following the thread, perhaps he can add his impressions....

  39. #189
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    Default Re: An Ilur in PA

    Thank you John for your response to Ed. Obviously I had studied your thread in detail as I was thinking about the rudder assembly.

    I concur with Edward as well... the pivot disc shows to be attached with two screws 90 degrees off-set on each side of the cheek. This would make fine-tuning the fitting of the slight rudder friction inside the box quite difficult. I read the French instructions about the assembly which came with my plans and those were from an early iteration of the design (2009) whereas the technical drawings were from 2014 (showing the screws). In the 2009 version, nothing is glued together (other than the top unit) and instead each piece is screwed together. The 2014 drawings show only screws and no instructions about epoxy.

    I basically don't want to screw anything into plywood that's going to be exposed to a lot of water without first using the drill-fill-drill method. Trying to do that with the pivot disc and 4 screws and cheeks seemed excessively fussy. I did a nice big drill-fill-drill on the disc and two cheeks for the carriage bolt. I hope that it'll make the fine tuning later a lot easy. I guess I'll find out once everything is actually assembled.

    As for the larger rudder blade, I checked about that with Vivier and he suggested that I could use the larger version on my lug/sloop. So, that's what I am doing for now. If I find that the balance of the boat is off, I can always reduce the size of the blade later.

    I am definitely going to install a Huntingford helm impeder which is why I am leaving the tiller rather chunky and squarish underneath.

    Pictures before too long.

  40. #190
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    Default Re: An Ilur in PA

    meanwhile, I finished the mast head.




  41. #191
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    Default Re: An Ilur in PA



    Drill an oversized hole, and fill with thickened epoxy.
    Then re-drill to fit carriage bolt



    and preparing the rudder foil


  42. #192
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    Default Re: An Ilur in PA

    This the super warm temperatures around Western PA in the past days I thought it might be timely to give the seat and floor boards an opportunity to soak in some lovin' Deks Olje:




  43. #193
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    Default Re: An Ilur in PA

    looking great!

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