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Thread: An Ilur in PA

  1. #51
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    Default Re: An Ilur in PA

    Wow, she's looking like a boat! Very nice......

    Quote Originally Posted by cmosheh View Post
    Just a brief update... I won't be posting pictures that more or less illustrate the same process John Hartmann already showed so beautiful in his build of Waxwing on his thread. I am currently installing strakes #6. Port side is installed.




  2. #52
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    Default Re: An Ilur in PA

    Plank #7 port side is on!

    Cutting gains on the bow is getting a bit harder as I have to crouch down.
    Cutting gains on the transom is no longer necessary.
    You win some you loose some
    Overall, the planking is getting easier in as much as I no longer need to invoke the services of my steamer.


    GIVE CREDIT WHERE CREDIT IS DUE ---

    The Ilur is such an awesome design!!! Thank you, Francois Vivier!

    Has anyone seen Goeff Kerr's very recent build of an Ilur!

    He is a master craftsman and I owe much to him and John Hartmann in giving me the courage to commence with a glued lapstrake!
    It all started with Geoff Kerr's review (in Wooden Boat Magazine) of Francois Vivier's amazing design and John Hartmann's build of his fabulous Waxwing Ilur and his most informative thread on this forum.

    And then there is this amazing series of videos on the OffCenterHarbor web site in which Geoff takes you step-by-step through the process of lapstrake boat building... in this case a Caledonia Yawl. Right there you've got your money's worth... and there is so much more.

    For this novice lap-strake builder, sufficient courage and enthusiasm was mounted to order the Ilur... and the kit I received from Hewes & Co. was worth every penny! For sure!

    Chris
    Last edited by cmosheh; 06-14-2016 at 07:37 PM.

  3. #53
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    Default Re: An Ilur in PA

    Last weekend we went sailing in the new Ilur Cloud Atlas in Salem harbor. It was blowing a steady 25mph, gusting 35+, according to the Salem harbormaster. So we put in a triple reef. The wind was blowing from the shore, so there was no chop, or none of this would have been possible. And, maybe this was not exactly prudent, but we had four aboard: myself, my wife, my wife's cousin, and his 12 year old son. And sail we did, wearing our buoyancy aids, across the harbor and back, twice. When under way, every time I noticed a crease spreading up the sail from the clew, I hauled back on that three part downhaul, and flattened the sail right out. My wife, who was in front, got completely soaked, but the rest of is stayed reasonably dry. I can confirm that the Ilur is a weatherly little boat.

    And guys, about that loose thwart: it happens that Geoff Kerr built my Ilur with both thwarts loose. You can lift them right out of the boat. I've been wondering if this is a good thing. And we've been sailing her with the aft thwart left behind in my basement, and the forward thwart just sitting on the riser (you need at least one thwart, in case someone has to do a little rowing). On Sunday she had a pretty good test, blasting along at hull speed with a full load. I didn't notice any working of the boat at all. I think she is just very stiff with the glued plywood frames.

    Some lessons learned:
    1. a little ballast would be a good thing. I ordered 50lbs of lead shot. I'll start with that much.
    2. the sheet on the misainer rig is not attached to the boat anywhere. if you neglect to tie a stopper knot the sheet might get loose and drop into the water and sink.
    3. its possible to row an Ilur in a near gale with four aboard, and the mast up. that might come in handy.
    Last edited by photocurio; 06-14-2016 at 10:43 PM.

  4. #54
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    Default Re: An Ilur in PA

    Thanks for that report, Photocurio!

    I had noticed the beefy keel bands on your boat. Geoff took some superb pictures and shared on FB.
    I guess you've got a pretty good weight right there at the very bottom of the hull. I liked the arrangement for excellent protection of the bottom of the hull. So I ordered the same keel bands and will follow pretty much the example on your boat.

    I like sailing when it gets wet and woolly... and I am glad to hear that Ilur is more than up to it.

    When it is forecast to blow 30+ knots, I leave my current sailing chariot - a Johnson18 - on the trailer... there is no reefing on this boat and I don't want to break a mast. I'll expect more of the Ilur - once reefed

    C.

  5. #55
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    Default Re: An Ilur in PA

    Photocurio, I've been out a couple of times in conditions like you described--once with three up, once with an empty boat, sailing solo. Here is a picture of the solo session:



    Main is fully reefed, and the mizzen is also reefed. What is noteworthy about that image is that the boat was docile enough for me to manage the sheet and tiller with one hand while using the other for juggling the camera in F5-6 winds.

    here is a picture of the boat loaded with a week's worth of gear, in busy but not boisterous conditions:



    photo by Christophe Matson. Winds 15-20, gusts 25. First reef in the main, full mizzen.

    And a brief video clip of the boat in 15-20, with the steep waves of wind vs current on the St. Lawrence River last year, Gabrielle at the helm, and me blethering from a comfy ( and dry) seat on the floorboards:



    she is a rugged little boat, for sure.

  6. #56
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    Default Re: An Ilur in PA

    cmosheh, how do you plan to rig yours?

  7. #57
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    Default Re: An Ilur in PA

    It'll be a lug-sloop rig.
    In the newest iteration of this rig, Vivier makes the bow-sprit to be easily retractable... something I consider a big advantage at certain types of dock.
    The boat already has two mast steps in the keelson and I am planning to have two mast partners. One for the sloop rig and the other for the optional balanced lug. In that case, the re-stepping of the mast would involve having to lift and drop it through the mast partner - not to be done whilst at sea!

    For the sloop rig, the mast will partner up with the deck as with the other designs... the only difference being that the deck goes a bit further back.
    C.
    Last edited by cmosheh; 06-15-2016 at 07:47 AM.

  8. #58
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    Default Re: An Ilur in PA

    Thank you, John, for posting those wonderful pictures of Waxwing in action!

  9. #59
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    Default Re: An Ilur in PA

    Yes, I had already suspected from Geoff's pictures, that Cloud Atlas actually has two removable thwarts.
    I also saw that the thwarts are not connected to the centerboard trunk. I suspect that instead there might be a small stringer running underneath the middle of the thwart plank for stiffness. I gather that the thwarts are not an integral part of the form stability and structure of the hull.
    Any thoughts on that?

    /C

  10. #60
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    Default Re: An Ilur in PA

    Quote Originally Posted by cmosheh View Post
    I suspect that instead there might be a small stringer running underneath the middle of the thwart plank for stiffness. [Yes] I gather that the thwarts are not an integral part of the form stability and structure of the hull..
    That does seem to be correct. I was skeptical, btw. But John demonstrated that the aft thwart is not necessary, and after sailing Cloud Atlas in a big breeze, I'm pretty sure the forward thwart isn't either. But I might screw it down to the risers anyway because I don't like it bumping around.

    I'm excited to see your sloop rig. That should be the fastest Ilur. And maybe a real handful at times.

    I got a comment on my facebook page that there is a sloop rigged Ilur that sits on a mooring in Rockport, MA. This was not from the owner of said boat, so its purely a rumor. The guy said he didn't know the owner, but has seen the boat.

  11. #61
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    Default Re: An Ilur in PA

    Photocurio, check out John Hartmann's solution to keeping his removable thwart in place. Very nice and neet!
    I suspect you'd be able to do the same - instead of screwing it down into the riser.
    I have actually been thinking of a simply bungee solution... similar concept to how I keep my hatches snug and in place on my wooden kayaks.

    So, I just completed strake # 7 - port as well as starboard




  12. #62
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    Default Re: An Ilur in PA

    Looks great!

  13. #63
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    Default Re: An Ilur in PA

    I must admit that it is getting a bit harder (at my age) to climb underneath the structure to clean up epoxy squeeze out from inside of the hull... albeit probably not nearly as hard as it would be if I did not do it.

  14. #64
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    Default Re: An Ilur in PA

    Thank you, Garth!!

    Pretty soon you and I have to get together on what wood options might work best for the rail... (for the uninitiated: Garth is my Pittsburgh wood-working and boat building guru and "support system" - check out his web site and you'll understand)

    I hope I'll be able to source enough cypress for floor boards. But then there is the deck, thwarts etc. I guess it'll depend a lot on what overall color scheme I aim for.

    On that count, I still have not decided on the sheer strake: paint, stain, deks olje...
    If paint, I have a pretty good idea of what it would have to be.

    I will definitely abstain from varnish on this boat.
    In that regard John Hartmann led the way - and - having varnished three kayaks plut one 12' pram to the finest sheen
    ...Ilur is requesting for an "au natural" treatment, s'il vous plaît. - How can I say no to that?

    Isn't it fun to have options to day-dream about?!

  15. #65
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    Default Re: An Ilur in PA

    Quote Originally Posted by Garth Jones View Post
    Looks great!
    I 2nd that, looks great!

  16. #66
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    Default Re: An Ilur in PA

    So, port side #10 strake is installed.
    Thanks to John Hartmann's description of how he solved the matter of setting up the final strake, I did not have to agonize over a solution and simply used his method. It worked like a charm.
    Tomorrow I'll be cutting the last gains for Ilur on starboard strake #10.
    Pics to follow!

  17. #67
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    Default Re: An Ilur in PA

    Tadaa - #10 starboard strake installed last night.


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    Default Re: An Ilur in PA

    Well done!

  19. #69
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    Default Re: An Ilur in PA

    Wow! Looking very fine. I met up with Dean P. (Beg Meil in Boston) today at the boat show. Also spoke to Geoff Kerr for a second.
    He seemed very enthusiastic about the Ilur he had built. He may have another commissioned for the winter.

    This is getting to be a popular design. I blame you, John!

    Here's hoping we all have fun and successful builds. Great work Chris!

    Mike O
    "near it, a small whale-boat, painted red and blue, the delight of the king's old age."

  20. #70
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    Default Re: An Ilur in PA

    Apologies for my delayed update!
    July is going to be a very slow Ilur month... on account of various family festivities and related preparations plus a paddling/camping trip with the Outcast Paddlers to the 1000 Island region... leaving tomorrow morning.

    In the meantime I did in fact make a little progress.
    In so many words the false stem and the false keel are now installed.

    Obviously there is still a ton of stuff to be done before planning the turning-over party.
    I do hope that by the end of August I am getting close to that point though.

    So here are some update pics:

    Laminated false stem detail...



    Dry fitting false stem and false keel...



    planning the false stem detail... This shape will probably be more suitable to the bow sprit stem fitting for the lug/sloop rig...



    I gotta say: I LOVE my Lie-Nielsen spoke-shave! What a tool!


  21. #71
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    Default Re: An Ilur in PA

    Three more pics...





    and finally... the shape of things to come...


  22. #72
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    Default Re: An Ilur in PA

    looks great!

    I'm about to embark on the same trip.. my ply kit finally arrived today, so tomorrow is the official start.

  23. #73
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    Default Re: An Ilur in PA

    looks great!

  24. #74
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    Default Re: An Ilur in PA

    Quote Originally Posted by cmosheh View Post
    I glued them up in pairs to verify that each set had the matching curvature. So far each strake set has been spot on. The lower five strakes are being reinforced over the joint with a fiber glass patch which will face inboard.



    I saw that john hartmann also only backed the lower 5 plank joints but i don't see that distinction from the plans - what determined that choice? (i'm pretty pro it for later clean up/fairing reasons!)

  25. #75
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    Default Re: An Ilur in PA

    Jeff,

    Delighted to hear that another Ilur will come into play in this hemisphere!!

    So, for me it was primarily a matter for reinforcing the bottom planks that will support the weight of the boat while on the trailer where my boat will probably spend a fair bit of time. I am personally not convinced that this is essential... even so, a bit of insurance is added peace of mind

    ~~~_/)~~ Chris

  26. #76
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    Default Re: An Ilur in PA

    Hey, thanks for the reply! I think i'll go with the consensus and glass the bottom 5 only too.

  27. #77
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    Default Re: An Ilur in PA

    The Zen of SANDING!

    ...preparing for a coat of CPES before priming.
    I'll post a couple of pictures when I consider being done with sanding at this point and before and after applying CPES

    back to sanding!

  28. #78
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    Default Re: An Ilur in PA

    before CPES


    and...



    after CPES


  29. #79
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    Default Re: An Ilur in PA

    Dat looks so purty

  30. #80
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    Default Re: An Ilur in PA

    Despite many interruptions... I am making some progress toward completing the outside.
    Today I put on the final coat of paint. Once it has cured I'll install the brass keel bands and then we should be ready to lift this puppy off of its scaffold.

    FIRST though, I've gotta figure out a place where I have enough height to do the job
    AND moreover what to put it on once it has been turned right side up.

    After second coat:


    after final coat... paint applied in part with brush and wherever possible rolled and tipped...



    the color tone is very difficult to get in artificial light... especially with a subtle hue such as light very light "warmish" green.

    The top of the transom is sapele and the gunwale will also be sapele. The transom already received stage one of the Deks Olje treatment as will the gunwale and the top strake.


  31. #81
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    Default Re: An Ilur in PA

    Awesome! That first photo is very inspiring. You can really see the attention you paid to your gains up there at the bow. So important
    to the looks of this beautiful design!

    Looking forward to photos of the turnover.

    Mike

    P.S. If you have time, could you tell me the dimension of your skeg? The "height" or "depth"from where it meets the transom to its bottom edge?

    I'm going for 8 inches or so, but can't find anything specific in the plans. Thanks!
    "near it, a small whale-boat, painted red and blue, the delight of the king's old age."

  32. #82
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    Default Re: An Ilur in PA

    Okay Mike, excuse the crude hand drawn info but it'll give you the dimensions I think you are looking for.

    Note that the keel sits on top of and becomes part of the skeg. On one side you can still see the line where the skeg and keel lay together. The keel represents about 20 mm over the skeg on my boat. The instructions call for 18 mm I believe. I allowed for a bit extra but guess I did not shave off quite enough.
    So the aft length to the top of (or if you prefer "bottom") the skeg is 280mm. If you run a bisecting line to the aft corner you get 205 mm.

    Overall, the keel appear to run "down" a bit from the height of the CB trunk area...
    So you've got a very gentle curvature (rocker) from the transom to the trunk.
    From the trunk forward it's pretty straight.

    Hope that helps.
    Chris




  33. #83
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    Default Re: An Ilur in PA

    Thinking about what'll happen once the Ilur is right side up...
    Something like that perhaps...


  34. #84
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    Default

    Looks awesome. I just am getting started with the box and girder of my ilur. Just took my kit out of storage after a year.

  35. #85
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    Default Re: An Ilur in PA

    Mike, probably no surprise at all, since Chris and I both have kit boats, but I just measured Waxwing's skeg, and the measurements match Chris's exactly.....so there you have it...four eyes are better than two.

    Chris, the paint looks lovely! The CPES really gave you a nice smooth surface to cover--I had the devil of a time catching epoxy runs and orange peel in the later coats of epoxy...I also think your sapele transom is going to glow once you get the D2 on. Nice work!

  36. #86
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    Default Re: An Ilur in PA

    Thanks John!
    Yeah the CPES worked quite well. I did give it a light sanding before priming.

    I'll have to review your comments about turning the boat over.
    Looks like you accomplished the job with five or six willing and able bodies?

    I think that I'll have to roll my construction out into the open - my garage ceiling is probably not high enough to raise the hull above the forms ...and since my driveway has a fairly steep slope I might actually have to roll it into the street (not much traffic to worry about). I'll really have to think this thing through.

    Any words of advice?

  37. #87
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    Default Re: An Ilur in PA

    Quote Originally Posted by ilur View Post
    Looks awesome. I just am getting started with the box and girder of my ilur. Just took my kit out of storage after a year.
    Yet another Ilur? Cool. Where do you plan to be sailing, and how will you rig yours?

  38. #88
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    Default Re: An Ilur in PA

    She looks great, fantastic job with the paint. Really nice.....
    Quote Originally Posted by cmosheh View Post
    D

    After second coat:


  39. #89
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    Default Re: An Ilur in PA

    Photocurio, I am planning to rig this Ilur in the lug/sloop sail plan. So, a jib will fly on a bow sprit and the main is a balanced lug sail. The mast is stepped a bit further after than the misainier (standing lug) sail plan. In fact, I installed both mast steps which will enable me to sail this Ilur either in the lug/sloop mode or - with mast stepped forward - with a single balanced lug sail. In the most recent iteration of Ilur, Vivier has changed the set-up of the sprit. In my mind it is an elegant improvement. The inboard part of the sprit attaches to the mast on a simple gudgeon and then runs through a "bow iron" (essentially a bronze ring) which is fixed on the bow. It will be very easy to unhook the sprit from the mast and remove it in tight quarters or when trailering. I might use a small furler for the jib.
    Cheers,
    Chris

  40. #90
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    Default Re: An Ilur in PA

    Thanks Jason!

  41. #91
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    Default Re: An Ilur in PA

    Quote Originally Posted by cmosheh View Post
    Photocurio, I am planning to rig this Ilur in the lug/sloop sail plan..
    Chris, I know yours will be a sloop (and I sure hope to see her one day!). But another forum member named "Ilur" posted that he (she?) is also starting a build from a kit. Have we heard about this one yet?

    In other news, I've been getting good sailing time on Cloud Atlas the past two weekends. The wind was strong both times. Last Sunday I sailed across Boston from Winthrop to Quincy and back. On the return sail I was triple reefed and barreling along at hull speed—5.5kts. The amazing thing was how completely steady and solid she felt. I did have 100lbs of ballast in the bilge though, which makes a difference. And holding the tiller with "Huntingford's Helm Impeder" is another nice improvement. It makes steering less tiring.

  42. #92
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    Default Re: An Ilur in PA

    Peter, I too have been impressed with the Ilur's good performance and docile behavior in boisterous conditions. The picture is last October, Northern Isles of Lake Champlain, and the fringes of the last hurricane of the season that hit Boston and Portland pretty hard....F5/6 winds, and I could sail single handed, with one hand free to take the picture:



    had my usual 50# of ballast aboard, have since gotten an additional 50# for single handing in stronger winds with an unladen boat.....

    The tack downhaul and mainsheet attachment at the clew let you keep a very nice shape as the sail is reefed.
    Glad to hear you like the Huntingford impeder set-up....I am strongly considering adding it as a replacement for my current set up.

  43. #93
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    Not heard of mine yet. I don't want to start a thread until I make some decent progress. I was going to have this kit built by someone else but have decided to try it myself.

    I am right outside Pittsburgh. Prob name my thread "ilur in my basement " beings Chris took PA. I am actually not too far from you. If you need help turning her over myself and the guy from village boat shop would be interested in helping u.

    I laughed when u described ur garage and driveway. I used to live on Salem drive in lebo and had the exact same setup.

  44. #94
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    Default Re: An Ilur in PA

    Michael, you'll be more than welcome to help with the flip-flopping of the boat. (hopefully more flipping than flopping I am getting pretty close. Yesterday evening I installed the first brass strip section. Once that is competed, I'll have to make the contraption to hold the hull securely while I climb in and out. I'll communicate with you directly once I have a possible target date.

    Peter's and John's descriptions of the boat makes me salivate with excitement!

    I am curious as to how and where you secure the weights. Do either of you have a picture you could share?
    Are the weights secured sufficiently so that in the event of a capsize they would not drop out?

    ~~~_/)~~ Chris

  45. #95
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    Default Re: An Ilur in PA

    Quote Originally Posted by cmosheh View Post

    I am curious as to how and where you secure the weights. Do either of you have a picture you could share?
    Are the weights secured sufficiently so that in the event of a capsize they would not drop out?

    I second that! Pictures, please....

  46. #96
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    Default Re: An Ilur in PA

    Quote Originally Posted by ilur View Post
    I am right outside Pittsburgh. Prob name my thread "ilur in my basement " beings Chris took PA.
    How about a thread "Ilur in the 'Burgh?" I will be following with interest.

  47. #97
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    Default Re: An Ilur in PA

    Chris, thanks so much for the measurements. And John for the corroboration! I'll start laminating my skeg soon. I will probably deviate from the plans and assemble my external or "false" keel from a few parts, the way that the Oughtred boats use.

    Don't want to hijack your thread, Chris, and I could start a new thread to discuss this, but...

    After seeing Waxwing's fully battened main, I can't seem to think of a reason why all mainsails are not made this way. Seems like sail shape is fine if battens are flexible enough, and reefing and dousing are easier. Any thoughts? I'm certainly leaning in this direction.
    "near it, a small whale-boat, painted red and blue, the delight of the king's old age."

  48. #98
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    Default Re: An Ilur in PA

    No worries Falcon1... the sail plan and sail design is totally part of the overall Ilur discussion.

    I very much like the full batten design on Waxwing and obviously they make reefing a much cleaner affair.
    On the balanced lug main I am thinking that the advantage of full length battens may be less noticeable.

    I have to think about it and also discuss with the sail maker.

    Given that smooth, clean and quick reefing is an important function on Ilur I am going to think about this a lot more.
    On previous boats I had a jiffy reefing system that essentially allowed me to reduce sail with a single line.

    I welcome any input but expert balanced lug main reefers.

    ~~~_/)~~ Chris

  49. #99
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    Default Re: An Ilur in PA

    Quote Originally Posted by cmosheh View Post
    I am curious as to how and where you secure the weights. Do either of you have a picture you could share?
    Are the weights secured sufficiently so that in the event of a capsize they would not drop out?

    ~~~_/)~~ Chris
    I use John Hartmann's method: 25lb bags of lead shot, put into sturdy Lead Sled bags. You can get this stuff on Amazon.

    The bags are stowed under the lifting floorboards, alongside the centerboard, and under the oars and other gear. And yes it could drop out if the boat happened to turtle. I might think of a method to secure it better. So far the ballast has never shifted, since it is between the ply frames, and the hull has nice deadrise.

    At first I was doubtful that these little bags could make much difference to boat handling, considering that a Herreshoff 12 1/2 has over 700lbs on her keel. But actually they do make a big difference in sailing ability in a reefing breeze. My current thinking is to always have 100lbs in the bilge for single handing, 50lbs when sailing with crew. I'll post a photo when I get a chance to take one.. unless John beats me to it!

    Here we are in Boston's outer harbor, triple reefed. I had her double reefed, but she started yawing a lot in the rising breeze, so I just put her to the wind, dropped sail, reefed, raised sail, and carried on. I've been doing a lot of that drill lately and its now easy enough. It helps that she makes very little leeway while lying to.



    Here's a pic of the Helm Impeder. It works so very nicely. But you do have to attach a lot of hardware to you tiller, and it was very hard to drill into that lovely tiller that Geoff Kerr made me. There is a clam cleat on the far side of the tiller that holds the tensioner line. It sets up with brass clips, so its easy to remove it

    Last edited by photocurio; 01-28-2017 at 12:11 PM. Reason: clarity

  50. #100
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Posts
    134

    Default Re: An Ilur in PA

    Thanks for these details, Peter.
    Love those pictures!
    BTW, what wood did Geoff use for the seats and thwarts?

    Meanwhile... making progress on the brass bands - no tubas took harm

    ~~C

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