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Thread: An Ilur in PA

  1. #246
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    Default Re: An Ilur in PA

    Thanks!
    This Ilur sail plan has a total of 151 sqft (14 m2) of canvas.
    So, even in a small puff she latches on and gets into a groove.
    I am still learning her ways... and enjoying it greatly.
    C.

  2. #247
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    Default Re: An Ilur in PA

    So there she is:


  3. #248
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    Default Re: An Ilur in PA

    Yes, with ample sail area and firm bilges, the Ilur stiffens up and accelerates in a puff very pleasingly. Looking forward to seeing you in Brooklin, Chris! Safe journey, and with Clarisa, Cloud Atlas and Waxwing, we'll soon have a passel of Ilurs sailing in company! Whoot! Whoot!
    cheers,
    J

  4. #249
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    Default Re: An Ilur in PA

    I know I can't stop grinning when I think of it. I was fussing with Cloud Atlas all the long weekend.

  5. #250
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    Default Re: An Ilur in PA

    All along I had 100' of rode for my anchors... but in the final instructions which I had not received until just a few days ago, SRR requires 150' of rode. So I immediately ordered and just received my new 150' rode. This is also when I learned that we would keep the boats at anchor. Still have to figure out how to best secure the sail while at anchor.

    I decided to make the trip in three days. Two 7 hour rides and the final leg just a shortish hop from Augusta so that I can arrive early enough and am not all bushed from a long trip at put in and setup.

    Super excited to meet and share company with Waxwing and Cloud Atlas and my fellow sailors!
    Wishing everyone a safe trip.
    C.

  6. #251
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    Default Re: An Ilur in PA

    I upgraded my ground tackle. Fortunately I had a 16lb Claw anchor, which I use for temporary moorings in Maine. But I didn't have a 10 foot long 1/4" chain, so I ordered that.

    When I first read those specs I thought it was overkill. But, if a thunderstorm comes through at night, I know I'll sleep better with the boat on that big chunk of metal.

  7. #252
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    Default Re: An Ilur in PA

    It will be very interesting to see how the three rigs compare. I hope you post a full report guys! It will be especially useful as the hulls are all essentially identical(kits) and new.

  8. #253
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    Default Re: An Ilur in PA

    Have fun! And take lots of photos/videos.

    Mike
    "near it, a small whale-boat, painted red and blue, the delight of the king's old age."

  9. #254
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    Default Re: An Ilur in PA

    planning to do just that!

  10. #255
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    Default Re: An Ilur in PA

    the Small Reach Regatta is an unforgettable event.
    Well organized, superb camp ground (Oceanfront Camping at Reach Knolls) near Brooklin ME, great sailing, wonderful weather and many new friends. It was more than worth the 17 hour drive to get there, though I will plan my time differently so that I'll spend more time there as a ratio to travel days.

    We had three Ilurs there:
    John Hartmann's (by now famous) Waxwing in the Lug Yawl configuration
    Peter Mumford's Cloud Atlas in the original Misainer sail plan
    and my Clarisa with the Lug Sloop sail plan

    Here, Peter and his delightful mate Adriana set anchor next to Waxwing


  11. #256
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    Default Re: An Ilur in PA

    On the second day, the afternoon presented a wonderful breeze as we broad-reached back to our mooring. Would probably have had to put in a reef if I had needed to go upwind. After the first couple of puffs, winds kicked up a significant notch so that I could not hold camera and sail at the same time...


  12. #257
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    Default Re: An Ilur in PA

    ...and here a bit earlier getting a better view of the scene with the Blue Hill Bay Lighthouse to starboard


  13. #258
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    Default Re: An Ilur in PA

    John and Peter discussing the finer points of Ilur sailing


  14. #259
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    Default Re: An Ilur in PA

    the morning sail starts out with light air whereas the sea breeze in the afternoon gets more exciting.
    Either way, the sailing was superb.

    Two islands and one of many lobster boats ahead with the Blue Hill Bay Lighthouse in the distance.



  15. #260
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    Default Re: An Ilur in PA

    Peter's Cloud Atlas sneeking up on a Caledonia Yawl


  16. #261
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    Default Re: An Ilur in PA

    This wonderful picture of the Ilur Trio at anchor was taken by Clint Chase.


  17. #262
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    Default Re: An Ilur in PA

    awesome! I want to go!
    "near it, a small whale-boat, painted red and blue, the delight of the king's old age."

  18. #263
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    Default Re: An Ilur in PA

    Quote Originally Posted by cmosheh View Post
    ...the Small Reach Regatta is an unforgettable event. ... It was more than worth the 17 hour drive to get there, though I will plan my time differently so that I'll spend more time there as a ratio to travel days. ...
    Chris, it sure does look like a great time to be out on the Penobscot Bay. I just checked, and the one way time from Atlanta, where I live, to Brooklin is about twenty and a half hours. I have, though, dreamt of sailing in Maine for, now, what is half a lifetime, since I started reading WoodenBoat Magazine and the other literature of the wooden boat renaissance and small boat sailing back in the 1970s. Maybe next year.

    In any case, I wanted to be sure to offer my thanks for your contribution to the aforementioned literature, these lovely words and pictures.

  19. #264
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    Here, Chris eases CLARISA through thin water at the bar at the inside end of Naskeag Harbor, while my crew Erika Bodin gives chase with the aid of an amazingly fast and terrifyingly red mizzen staysail. Harris Bucklin and crew in a a Caledonia yawl would have flown a staysail as well, but suffered a wardrobe malfunction which discounted that option (someone hauled the wrong end of the staysail halyard, lofting the bitter end out of reach at the mizzen masthead.....) Thinking quickly, they soon deployed a pair of very large sun parasols as SHAFT MOUNTED SPINNAKERS to great effect....this isn't a one design race, after all, and the committee boat was well into it's second round of lemonade and on the way to the lunch beach at Babson Island by this time*......

    *there WAS no committee boat, actually. This isn't a race, after all....



    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

  20. #265
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    Default Re: An Ilur in PA

    John: what a wonderful shot!!!

    Also: after so many communications and email consults over these past years, it was such a thrill to finally meet you and Gabrielle.

    Thanks for posting the picture. I certainly remember ghosting through that narrow passage and you stepping onto that wonderful chase boat to capture this great perspective. BTW, that was an excellent article in the new Small Boat Monthly on your mizzen stay-sail. I guess, the equivalent on my rig would be a gennaker (asymmetrical chute) and FV offered to draw on. I am certainly well familiar with that type of a sail from my years on the MX-Ray and Johnson-18. For now though, I'll stick with learning to make best use of the two sails I have. I will most likely get rid of the jaw on the boom. Earlier versions of this rig did not have this feature and while I can see why it was added I think I'd prefer the simpler option. First I need some more leather

    Chris Noto: while Google told me that my trip would be 14 hours, it took 18 driving hours to get home - with bad weather and bad traffic.
    My advice is that the time at the SRR is incredibly worth any small wooden sailboat sailors time. Next time around I will make sure that I will be there for more than just the SRR. 4 driving days and 3 sailing days simply is not the right ratio. I am already thinking of options for next time around.

    The SRR is - justifiably - very gear-intensive. It's all about safety and being able to operate independently in potentially adverse and challenging conditions. I have a bare-boat certificate, so this was really very normal stuff. That said, the SRR provides superb support. The venue, the camp-ground, the organization and the food were all top notch. Of course, the Maine coastal region is simply awesome and the sailors, crew and support teams all make for a fabulous event.

    Cheers,
    Chris
    Last edited by cmosheh; 08-03-2017 at 11:34 PM.

  21. #266
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    Default Re: An Ilur in PA

    Here a picture taken by my friend Gardner Pickering (with Hewes & Co who had cut the Ilur kit) as we were ghosting side by side into the Eggemoggin Reach:



  22. #267
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    Default Re: An Ilur in PA

    Photo taken by my dear friend Dan Thaler from his kayak... Chesapeake Bay Bridge in the background.

    Last edited by cmosheh; 11-21-2017 at 03:28 PM.

  23. #268
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    Default Re: An Ilur in PA



    Though you see me sitting on the gunwale in some of these pictures, generally speaking it is rarely necessary unless it is blowing hard. Transitioning from a dinghy racer (a Johnson18) I am still so accustomed to sitting out there that I sometimes do when it really is not necessary. There is however another reason why I still don't mind sitting on the gunwale: I am very picky about sail trim and keep eyes on the tell-tales. On the port tack it is hard to glimpse the jib tell tales unless I sit out there.
    Last edited by cmosheh; 11-21-2017 at 03:38 PM.

  24. #269
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    Default Re: An Ilur in PA

    The previous picture as well as this one was taken by Warren Barton, a fellow sailor on Lake Arthur in Moraine State Park.


  25. #270
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    Default Re: An Ilur in PA

    I'm a little late to this thread, so forgive me (or redirect me!) if you've already talked about it, but can you talk a little more about the "Lug Sloop sail plan" versus the balanced lug. How did you choose it? How well does it work?

    Thanks,
    -Bruce
    Tales from the land and sea: http://terrapintales.wordpress.com/

  26. #271
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    Default Re: An Ilur in PA

    Okay, Bruce let me see... I don't think we talked about this directly. I hope that my Ilur friends John Hartmann, Peter Mumford and Tim Cooke as well as other experienced sailors will chime in. Anyway, here is my take:

    The misainier rig is the original (for Ilur) and simplest configuration - a boomless standing lug sail. This rig is extremely practical and amazingly effective and efficient. It will provide excellent performance and the sail can be struck without lowering the yard. The rig harkens back to its roots when when your objective was to haul fish. Even without fish, the rig works well upwind and on a reach. On a run it is least effective unless the clew is hauled out with a whisker pole. This can be quite accomplished quite easily.

    The balance lug is essentially the same type of sail as the misainier but with a boom. Performance will be better downwind and can obviously be tuned in terms of draft. On reaches and upwind this configuration should perform similarly to the misainer.

    The lug / yawl option was added by Francois Vivier specifically at the request of John Hartmann. This configuration is more complex and requires a lot more lines and an additional step for the mizzen mast. The mizzen offers many advantages - especially to camp cruisers. In terms of sailing characteristics. It might have a small speed advantage upwind over the misainier. Downwind the mizzen can be flown on the opposite tack to the lug main and thereby sail quasi wing-on-wing. I would give this boat the advantage for downwind performance.

    As is the case with the lug/yawl, the lug/sloop option has a more complex set up over the misainier. (more fussing) The sail plan calls for a total of 14 m2 (151 sqft.) of canvas which is more than the other two rigs. On a reach I would expect this boat to be fastest for that simple reason. Upwind, the lug/sloop performs exceedingly well though I don't know that it would point any higher than a balanced lug sail - I suspect it would but have no evidence. Even so, (unreefed) the lug/sloop should be faster on account of the added canvas.

    On a run the jib is useless whereas the mizzen on the yawl catches the breeze.

    When you build the lug/sloop you basically build two mast steps. The deck reaches a bit further back than on the standing lug configuration. When stepping the mast, you use the step further back. If you have the corresponding partner in the deck (as I do) you can step the mast forward and fly the lug sail as a single sail balance lug... thereby doing without the jib.

    I have never found the need to do so. I set up the jib on a small boat furler so that I can reduce jib size or strike it altogether. Obviously you would not want to relocate the mast while afloat.

    Also note that John Hartmann added another sail (a mizzen stay sail) [shown in one of the pictures above #264] to his rig which turbo charges the rig and might well give him the advantage over both other rig options. Of course, the lug/sloop could easily fly a small asymmetrical spinnaker which Francois Vivier offered to draw up.

    Okay, those are just my personal impression. I hope John, Peter and Tim and others chime in.

    Depicted below my deck with the additional partner for the forward mast step below.


  27. #272
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    Default Re: An Ilur in PA

    I think a little asymmetric spinnaker might be a hoot, though it would need the bowsprit, for sure, and I’m not sure I’d want to fly one sailing solo....
    the mizzen staysail is a low enough aspect sail that there is little heeling moment in use, and is easy to manage single handed:



    ”turbocharged” might be a relative term....it makes a difference in light air, for sure. I was pleased by how closely matched the boats were despite rig differences...

  28. #273
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    Default Re: An Ilur in PA

    Quote Originally Posted by cmosheh View Post
    Okay, Bruce let me see... I don't think we talked about this directly. I hope that my Ilur friends John Hartmann, Peter Mumford and Tim Cooke as well as other experienced sailors will chime in. Anyway, here is my take:

    The misainier rig is the original (for Ilur) and simplest configuration - a boomless standing lug sail. This rig is extremely practical and amazingly effective and efficient. It will provide excellent performance and the sail can be struck without lowering the yard. The rig harkens back to its roots when when your objective was to haul fish. Even without fish, the rig works well upwind and on a reach. On a run it is least effective unless the clew is hauled out with a whisker pole. This can be quite accomplished quite easily.

    The balance lug is essentially the same type of sail as the misainier but with a boom. Performance will be better downwind and can obviously be tuned in terms of draft. On reaches and upwind this configuration should perform similarly to the misainer.

    The lug / yawl option was added by Francois Vivier specifically at the request of John Hartmann. This configuration is more complex and requires a lot more lines and an additional step for the mizzen mast. The mizzen offers many advantages - especially to camp cruisers. In terms of sailing characteristics. It might have a small speed advantage upwind over the misainier. Downwind the mizzen can be flown on the opposite tack to the lug main and thereby sail quasi wing-on-wing. I would give this boat the advantage for downwind performance.

    As is the case with the lug/yawl, the lug/sloop option has a more complex set up over the misainier. (more fussing) The sail plan calls for a total of 14 m2 (151 sqft.) of canvas which is more than the other two rigs. On a reach I would expect this boat to be fastest for that simple reason. Upwind, the lug/sloop performs exceedingly well though I don't know that it would point any higher than a balanced lug sail - I suspect it would but have no evidence. Even so, (unreefed) the lug/sloop should be faster on account of the added canvas.

    On a run the jib is useless whereas the mizzen on the yawl catches the breeze.

    When you build the lug/sloop you basically build two mast steps. The deck reaches a bit further back than on the standing lug configuration. When stepping the mast, you use the step further back. If you have the corresponding partner in the deck (as I do) you can step the mast forward and fly the lug sail as a single sail balance lug... thereby doing without the jib.

    I have never found the need to do so. I set up the jib on a small boat furler so that I can reduce jib size or strike it altogether. Obviously you would not want to relocate the mast while afloat.

    Also note that John Hartmann added another sail (a mizzen stay sail) [shown in one of the pictures above #264] to his rig which turbo charges the rig and might well give him the advantage over both other rig options. Of course, the lug/sloop could easily fly a small asymmetrical spinnaker which Francois Vivier offered to draw up.

    Okay, those are just my personal impression. I hope John, Peter and Tim and others chime in.

    Depicted below my deck with the additional partner for the forward mast step below.

    Just a note on running with the Misanier. I made the whisker pole for it but I only ever used it once. There really is no need for it. I have the suspicion that it is a bit of a marketing ploy by Mr. Vivier to persuade people who are unsure about going boomless to jump! I would guess that the balanced lug would marginally out perform the Misanier on all points of sail but I would never trade that for the simplicity of the rig.

  29. #274
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    Default Re: An Ilur in PA

    Aw! You guys are confusing me!

    All the rigs have their up sides, and none seem to have terrible down sides, so that's good.
    I'm definitely going to have the mizzen, so the main is the question. It sounds like both Tim C. and Roger Barnes are completely satisfied with the Misanier, and no one could accuse them of "not really going anywhere" in their boats.

    I'm leaning towards the main being boomless and sprit-less at the start. Then, I can try a sprit or a whisker pole (oar?) if I think I need it.

    I wonder if reefing on the fly is easier with one rig over the others. Tim has installed a brailing line, which seems useful. Are you still using it Tim?

    Cheers, and thanks for all the inspiration, you guy!

    Mike
    "near it, a small whale-boat, painted red and blue, the delight of the king's old age."

  30. #275
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    Default Re: An Ilur in PA

    I am definitely not using the brailing line as much as I used to. I usually just catch the clew of the sail and roll it up to the mast instead. One of the reefing pennants ties it in place. You can drop the sail tied up like this and it is quite tidy. The bonus is that you can raise the sail with it rolled and it is out of the way while you raise the anchor. You look pretty slick unrolling the sail as you walk back to the helm and sail off on whatever tack you allowed the boat fall back onto.

    When fishing I just let the sail fall off to leeward. You can just trim the mainsheet enough to stop it flapping too much. I found that brailing while fishing resulted in too much attention. People tend to think your sail is ripped and come to rescue.

    I would still use it to gather in the sail to reef. Though it isn't to much of a stretch to gather the sail with your free arm while dropping it.

    At any rate rolling the sail is a lot tidier looking than brailing, and more low tech!

  31. #276
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    Default Re: An Ilur in PA



    Above shows the misanier rolled up.

  32. #277
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    Default Re: An Ilur in PA

    Quote Originally Posted by timcooke View Post


    Above shows the misanier rolled up.
    That is about as salty as it gets, beautiful!

  33. #278
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    Default Re: An Ilur in PA

    John: Great shots of the stay-sail in action! /C

  34. #279
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    Default Re: An Ilur in PA

    Tim: that's a mouth-watering picture!!!
    I love the reflection of the waves on the bow. /C

  35. #280
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    Default Re: An Ilur in PA

    Quote Originally Posted by Falcon1 View Post
    I'm leaning towards the main being boomless and sprit-less at the start. Then, I can try a sprit or a whisker pole (oar?) if I think I need it.
    I've got a boomless standing lugsail in my Alaska, and after a season of cruising I am quite happy with it, and have no plans to add a boom or sprit boom. It's simple to pole out the sail with an oar, which I've done at times, but that doesn't seem to add performance downwind anyway.

    For one thing, you can't boom out the sail very far without the tip of the yard moving forward of the mast, with all those undesirable effects--so it's generally better to reach downwind rather than sailing a dead run, anyway.

    Quote Originally Posted by Falcon1 View Post
    Tim has installed a brailing line, which seems useful. Are you still using it Tim?
    I've also concluded that there's no need for a brailing line--simpler to roll the sail up around the mast as Tim describes.

    Tom
    You don't have to be prepared as long as you're willing to suffer the consequences.

    www.tompamperin.com

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