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Thread: Autum Leaves - CLC Canoe Yawl

  1. #1
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    Default Autum Leaves - CLC Canoe Yawl

    Lovely little single hander from John Harris and CLC. She is featured in the new issue.

    Plans are being readied now.

    http://www.clcboats.com/life-of-boat...anoe_yawl.html


    Designed for standup rowing - no engine

    And proper comfortable for one, yes she's a singlehander.

    Last edited by keyhavenpotterer; 02-15-2016 at 06:50 AM.

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    Default Re: Autum Leaves - CLC Canoe Yawl

    Very Bolger-esque, in't she?

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    Default Re: Autum Leaves - CLC Canoe Yawl

    Yes. In the link he explains how she develops from Cherub and is strongly influenced by Bolger's Anhinga, then modernised.

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    Default Re: Autum Leaves - CLC Canoe Yawl

    He is some fella that John, just what does he eat for breakfast?. I see plans for NED are still in progress, so now 2 boat designs as download projects.

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    Default Re: Autum Leaves - CLC Canoe Yawl

    Well that is rather nice. Looks like the dog would fit too.

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    Default Re: Autum Leaves - CLC Canoe Yawl


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    Default Re: Autum Leaves - CLC Canoe Yawl

    Quote Originally Posted by skaraborgcraft View Post
    He is some fella that John, just what does he eat for breakfast?
    John explains it this way

    "What happened next has been a recurrent theme of my life since childhood. There's a sudden fever-dream of an idea, followed by a burst of energy, while more important tasks (like finishing instruction manuals and answering email) are ignored. "What would happen," I asked no one in particular, "if I could find some happy middle ground between the archly reductionist Anhinga and a so-difficult-to-build-that-you-won't-finish-it-in-this-lifetime boat like Cherub II?"

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    Default Re: Autum Leaves - CLC Canoe Yawl

    John devotes a lot of attention to the radical simplicity of Bolger's Anhinga, but one point he omits is the distinctive design. Bolger drew the chines parallel to the LWL, coming to a point at the stern, as in Eek. I believe this was an experiment to test a theory about water flow. Does anyone know what his conclusion was, regarding the success of that experiment? John drew the chines on Autumn Leaves rising to the LWL at the stern.
    Peter Belenky

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    Default Re: Autum Leaves - CLC Canoe Yawl

    Does she really need both boards?I think i would be happy with just one, seems to work for Michalak and his leeboards.

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    Default Re: Autum Leaves - CLC Canoe Yawl

    At about the same size and similar accommodations I might still go for Welsford's Long Steps.

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    Default Re: Autum Leaves - CLC Canoe Yawl

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Belenky View Post
    John devotes a lot of attention to the radical simplicity of Bolger's Anhinga, but one point he omits is the distinctive design. Bolger drew the chines parallel to the LWL, coming to a point at the stern, as in Eek. I believe this was an experiment to test a theory about water flow. Does anyone know what his conclusion was, regarding the success of that experiment? John drew the chines on Autumn Leaves rising to the LWL at the stern.
    IIRC, from what I have gleaned, Bolger concluded that the Eeek!/Anhinga/Economy Cruiser hull shape had - when heeled - too much buoyancy in the wrong place.
    I built an Eeek!, and didn't have any issues - but I didn't really have much of a clue back then . . . .

    I do like the look of John's new boat, though what I'd really like is his software.

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    Default Re: Autum Leaves - CLC Canoe Yawl

    I am moderately surprised that there hasn't been more love for this. Seems to be just the gently mobile man-cave that many here seem to crave?

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    Default Re: Autum Leaves - CLC Canoe Yawl

    Quote Originally Posted by Clarkey View Post
    I am moderately surprised that there hasn't been more love for this. Seems to be just the gently mobile man-cave that many here seem to crave?
    I like it, but I'd rather nail together a Bolger version then run 18' X 2 + X of epoxy fillets.

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    Default Re: Autum Leaves - CLC Canoe Yawl

    From John's post
    "The straight-sided hull eliminates at a stroke innumerable beveled joins; I think the basic hull shell could be built in two weekends. A thousand dollars in epoxy is saved by minimizing filleted joinery and structural fiberglass. The careful proportions won't entirely disguise the Bolger Box shape, but, if nicely finished, this design wouldn't offend any of the reactionary yachtsmen sharing the anchorage. And they'd have to appreciate its nimble handling and the skipper's panache in wafting up to the mooring under oar and sail, without a single puff of engine exhaust."

    and

    *
    his is unapologetically a single-hander, at least when it comes to sleeping aboard, which will make it a hard sell. I've participated in many pocket cruiser retreats, and find that the boats are nearly always single-handed, the family having chosen to stay home rather than rough it on a small boat. However, the boats were SOLD to the family on the basis of being able to daysail and sleep everybody. Thus this one appeals only to a determined singlehander."

    Perhaps we dare not build a boat that really is a single-hander, even though that's how we will use it. Probably would be a relief to our other half's if we were honest!

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    Default Re: Autum Leaves - CLC Canoe Yawl

    Probably very true. It would still make a decent daysailer for two though, even if the cockpit doesn't have the weight carrying ability. This is because it has that most luxurious spot of all, where every crew aspires to relax - a companionway.

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    Default Re: Autum Leaves - CLC Canoe Yawl

    And a private place for the ladies. The first thing on this list when I asked a very experienced sailing female friend.

    At 18'5" x 5' she is very much in the normal size considered such as the Oughtred Double Enders, Welsford Pathfinder etc. She's heavier with her 600 lbs of ballast but that should not affect trailing much and will make her steadier when taking out an in-experiienced crew or youngsters. She's rather nice and might just hit the sweetspot for a number of builders.
    Last edited by keyhavenpotterer; 02-17-2016 at 06:03 AM.

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    Default Re: Autum Leaves - CLC Canoe Yawl

    Tremendous news that plans are on there way!

    http://yachtee.blogspot.co.uk/2016/0...es-update.html



    Brian

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    Default Re: Autum Leaves - CLC Canoe Yawl

    I wonder if the benefit of a submerged fore foot to prevent slapping at anchor is achievable on something this size or a hydrodynamic issue.? Shallow submerged fore foots seem to work out on small skip jack types.

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    Default Re: Autum Leaves - CLC Canoe Yawl

    Quote Originally Posted by keyhavenpotterer View Post
    From John's post
    "The straight-sided hull eliminates at a stroke innumerable beveled joins; I think the basic hull shell could be built in two weekends. A thousand dollars in epoxy is saved by minimizing filleted joinery and structural fiberglass. The careful proportions won't entirely disguise the Bolger Box shape, but, if nicely finished, this design wouldn't offend any of the reactionary yachtsmen sharing the anchorage. And they'd have to appreciate its nimble handling and the skipper's panache in wafting up to the mooring under oar and sail, without a single puff of engine exhaust."

    and

    *
    his is unapologetically a single-hander, at least when it comes to sleeping aboard, which will make it a hard sell. I've participated in many pocket cruiser retreats, and find that the boats are nearly always single-handed, the family having chosen to stay home rather than rough it on a small boat. However, the boats were SOLD to the family on the basis of being able to daysail and sleep everybody. Thus this one appeals only to a determined singlehander."

    Perhaps we dare not build a boat that really is a single-hander, even though that's how we will use it. Probably would be a relief to our other half's if we were honest!
    True enough but aesthetics are a very large component of my attraction to specific designs. I'll happily do the extra work to achieve shapely topsides and a pair of internal boards integrated into the bunk structures.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
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    Default Re: Autum Leaves - CLC Canoe Yawl

    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
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    Default Re: Autum Leaves - CLC Canoe Yawl

    Quote Originally Posted by skaraborgcraft View Post
    I wonder if the benefit of a submerged fore foot to prevent slapping at anchor is achievable on something this size or a hydrodynamic issue.? Shallow submerged fore foots seem to work out on small skip jack types.
    I imagine that once one is lying in the berth the forefoot will be submerged?

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    Default Re: Autum Leaves - CLC Canoe Yawl

    Quote Originally Posted by Clarkey View Post
    I imagine that once one is lying in the berth the forefoot will be submerged?
    Good point, but then what happens about the stern slapping also in a small chop? I know the advantage of the flat bottom is minimal draft, but sometimes one may not be able/or choose, to dry out, so a night at anchor in any kind of chop might be noisy. Despite the sharp bow on my family skiff, the flat bottom will still pound in short seas, its something that can be tolerated when sailing, but not if i was trying to get some shut-eye. Compromises.....i know.....

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    Default Re: Autum Leaves - CLC Canoe Yawl

    Being a huge fan of Phil Bolger's work and having read most of his books, I can't help but like this boat. I applaud the creativity of John Harris and the many nice touches that he has incorporated into this design. She certainly looks salty and would take good care of the solo sailor. Nice work John Harris!

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    Default Re: Autum Leaves - CLC Canoe Yawl

    Quote Originally Posted by Clarkey View Post
    I am moderately surprised that there hasn't been more love for this. Seems to be just the gently mobile man-cave that many here seem to crave?
    I think this might be the problem:
    If you use good marine-grade materials throughout, and I hope you do, the cost savings won't be remarkable compared to buying a beat-up old pocket cruiser on CraigsList.

  25. #25
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    Default Re: Autum Leaves - CLC Canoe Yawl

    Depends if you want a brand new canoe yawl or a "beat up old pocket cruiser", that may need a whole lot of money spending on it. Yes there are bargains out there, but some weird folk actually enjoy the pain of building.

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    Default Re: Autum Leaves - CLC Canoe Yawl

    Anyone else get the sense that it's going to stern-squat?
    A boatless inlander, searching for the meaning of life-aground.

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    Default Re: Autum Leaves - CLC Canoe Yawl

    Plus, you can't buy a boat like this. It is very unique. I rather like it, but I don't mind square boats. Must be my infatuation with hay scows.

    Peace,
    Robert

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    Default Re: Autum Leaves - CLC Canoe Yawl

    Despite what McMullen might have to say about such designs, I've always been drawn to this sort of simplicity. Nice.
    Last edited by JimD; 09-06-2016 at 01:41 PM.
    There is no rational, logical, or physical description of how free will could exist. It therefore makes no sense to praise or condemn anyone on the grounds they are a free willed self that made one choice but could have chosen something else. There is no evidence that such a situation is possible in our Universe. Demonstrate otherwise and I will be thrilled.

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    Default Re: Autum Leaves - CLC Canoe Yawl

    Quote Originally Posted by Clarkey View Post
    I am moderately surprised that there hasn't been more love for this. Seems to be just the gently mobile man-cave that many here seem to crave?
    I have to chuckle, at both your man cave craving comment, and the comment that there's room for a man and a dog. It looks cute but I wonder how many here have spent a night or two in one of these man caves, especially with a big wet dog?

    Don't get me wrong, I love the concept, it's just that my experience in a wet, boaty man cave has spoiled my occasional boaty daydreams.

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    Default Re: Autum Leaves - CLC Canoe Yawl

    Quote Originally Posted by skaraborgcraft View Post
    Depends if you want a brand new canoe yawl or a "beat up old pocket cruiser", that may need a whole lot of money spending on it. Yes there are bargains out there, but some weird folk actually enjoy the pain of building.
    I love building things. This design checks boxes but leaves me cold, and it's still quite a bit of money and time to build. An extra month and thousand dollars of epoxy would be more than worth it for something other than slab sides.

  31. #31
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    Default Re: Autum Leaves - CLC Canoe Yawl

    Seems like there could be some sort of jump seat or removable thwart that could fold down or drop into the companionway space to accommodate a second passenger, no? That could keep the stern from squatting with a second person aboard.

    This boat reminds me a little bit of Matt Laydon's Paradox which is a similar shape & size and features an extra thick bottom that can take all kinds of abuse when grounding out. I don't know what John has specified for bottom thickness but an extra thick bottom on a boat like this is weight in the right place and also makes for a very tough boat for skinny water work.

    Still trying to figure out if this boat has two boards or just two cases and one board which is what seems to be represented on the above plans. Does the board drop in from the top into either case?

  32. #32
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    Default Re: Autum Leaves - CLC Canoe Yawl

    I was curious to see if anyone else agreed with me about the possibility of having a removable seat in the companionway space but it seems like Autumn Leaves has fallen from the tree and nobody wants to pick it up. Looks to me like with some clever cleats and a good lashing down that the seat for reading could also be used turned around facing forward and lifted a little higher in order to accommodate an additional person. As someone else pointed out, there doesn't seem to be enough buoyancy for two people to sit in the cockpit without her squatting at the stern. Anybody else have an opinion on Autumn Leaves being able to handle a second passenger?

    Sure it's billed as a solo boat but with a very small bit of additional planning it could also be used as a weekend love nest and we all know this world of ours could always use a little more love.

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    Default Re: Autum Leaves - CLC Canoe Yawl

    I like the boat fine. It's weird and cute, and I'll bet it will work nicely.

    That said, I have no interest in trying to squeeze someone else onboard with me. I'm tall, see, and I snore something fierce...

    Peace,
    Robert

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    Default Re: Autum Leaves - CLC Canoe Yawl

    I like this boat, it touches several buttons, but if it ever comes down to a generic popularity measurement, it might that it is a lot of boat for just one person to sail on comfortably; it might be good for a confirmed, loner, bachelor/ette, but other people with mates might be asking for just a bit too much time alone on weekends. Sure -- then the latter should build a different boat, but the lure of this one is rather strong, which is a problem :-) Maybe if it accommodated two for designed-day-sailing and private-peeing for the squeamish, and one for vacation cruising....?

    Water-ballast option forward for daysailing a passenger????

    Question: does this design replace the once-mentioned possibility of a design called "Pocket Change" -- which was to be an easier and quicker build than the excellent "Pocketship" but, I assume, able to cruise two people? -- Wade

  35. #35
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    Default Re: Autum Leaves - CLC Canoe Yawl

    John drew a larger version,. Even though he drew it when people asked, he does state he prefers the smaller boat.

    http://yachtee.blogspot.co.uk/2016/0...es-update.html
    Last edited by keyhavenpotterer; 09-14-2016 at 11:12 AM.

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