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Thread: A Beg-Meil for Boston

  1. #71
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    Default Re: A Beg-Meil for Boston

    Quote Originally Posted by JasonD View Post
    I mis-spoke, the planing off is for the inner coaming support clamp, not here. Never mind. I also double checked my screw placement: it was four - bow end, transom end on timber, and two timber frames along the way. With that and epoxy the clamps have successfully lifted the entire boat, seems plenty strong.



    Very ingenious, John....I think that would be about the only way to get decent purchase on the end grain of plywood. I will file that away for future use. Thanks!
    Hi John, Jason,

    Thanks for the input. I will have faith the epoxy is up to the task. I will put screws only into timber. I read in the West Systems bible about the process you describe, Jason, for installing a fastener into an epoxy filled hole. Did you use a machine screw (as opposed to a wood screw) as described in the book? (It sounds like a lot of work...) I may install a few fiberglass dowels through the clamp and into the plywood end grain.

    I have followed the posts associated with both your builds. After seeing how beautiful your work is, I am inspired to try harder.

    Thanks again,

  2. #72
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    Default Re: A Beg-Meil for Boston

    Quote Originally Posted by CundysHarbor View Post
    Dean,
    Your build looks very nice; good job. I bought poly tube on EBAY. Mine is three inches wide on the flat. Let me know if this would be helpful. Steam bag is the way to go; it beats a steaming box in so many ways. I left 1 x 1/2 cedar strips clamped on the boat for a day (without the bag) before epoxying.

    Thanks for the lead on the poly bag. I will see what is available on eBay. I had found a few places that sell the stuff, but everything seem to be offered in 1000 foot rolls...

    Regards,

  3. #73
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    Default Re: A Beg-Meil for Boston

    The clamps are finally on! Two layers of 15mm x 300mm CVG fir epoxied on one at time. It seemed to take countless attempts to fit and took 5 pieces to install 4 decent ones.

    Beveling the notches in the frames to accept the clamps:


    This is a weird view, but I spent a lot of time lying on the floor sighting down the sheer trying to convince myself the clamp was fair.



    It took all my clamps (40+) to clamp the second ply to the first. What a rag tag bunch of clamps...




    Both pairs of clamps landed on the stem such that the forward edge protruded past the bevel on the stem. I could not figure out why it worked out that way. The first clamp landed a bit short, too. I'm going to have to do some fairing to fudge this in...




    Now it's time to start some serious beveling. A question for those who have done this before:

    Should I bevel everything before the first strip plank is laid, or should I "bevel as I go"? I can think of arguments for both sides... Thanks for all the help, everyone.

  4. #74
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    Default Re: A Beg-Meil for Boston

    Quote Originally Posted by DeanP View Post
    Now it's time to start some serious beveling. A question for those who have done this before:

    Should I bevel everything before the first strip plank is laid, or should I "bevel as I go"? I can think of arguments for both sides... Thanks for all the help, everyone.
    what beveling? I think I am going to vote "bevel as you go"

  5. #75
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    Default Re: A Beg-Meil for Boston

    After what seemed like months of planing, I finally have started the strip planking process. I'm using 1/4 x 3/4 inch Western Red Cedar bead and cove. I was able to buy 16 foot lengths from Newfound Woodworks in Bristol, NH. I only have a few strips in place, but so far they are installing nicely.



    I'm bonding the strips with both West Six10 thickened epoxy and the TotalBoat equivalent. Both come in caulking gun type tubes with disposable static mixers. It's an expensive way to put down epoxy, but there is little waste and it's fast which is important since I am installing the strips solo.




    I using Raptor composite staples to secure the strips to the bulkheads and clamps. So far so good. 90psi at the compressor sets each staple just below the surface. These will never be seen again as these strips will get 2 layers (+/- 45) of 1/8" WRC.

    I'll post more photos soon. TinyPic.com is not working for me this afternoon...

  6. #76
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    Default Re: A Beg-Meil for Boston

    This is fantastic, so when you flip the boat you'll have frames, floors, bench risers, sheer clamp, center board case, stringers - everything in place and built in.
    That is very cool.
    Have you considered painting the interior parts while you don't have to lean in over the rail to get to those hard to reach spots?

    Trev
    "People should be able to access these benefits [Social Welfare] as a matter of right, with no more loss of their own standards of self-respect than would be involved in collecting from an insurance company the proceeds of an endowment policy on which they have been paying premiums for years."
    Robert Menzies - Liberal Party (Conservative) Prime Minister of Australia.

  7. #77
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    Default Re: A Beg-Meil for Boston

    Quote Originally Posted by gypsie View Post
    This is fantastic, so when you flip the boat you'll have frames, floors, bench risers, sheer clamp, center board case, stringers - everything in place and built in.
    That is very cool.
    Have you considered painting the interior parts while you don't have to lean in over the rail to get to those hard to reach spots?

    Trev
    I live not far from John Hartmann and saw his Ilur (same hull design) go together. I was amazed at the planning and precision of the molds, bulkheads, etc. and how everything went together to save time and produce a very strong hull. That is one very talented naval architect.
    I was born on a wooden boat that I built myself.

  8. #78
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    Default Re: A Beg-Meil for Boston

    Quote Originally Posted by gypsie View Post
    This is fantastic, so when you flip the boat you'll have frames, floors, bench risers, sheer clamp, center board case, stringers - everything in place and built in.
    That is very cool.
    Have you considered painting the interior parts while you don't have to lean in over the rail to get to those hard to reach spots?

    Trev
    Hi Trev,

    Thanks for the kind words. It had been my plan all along to paint the interior before I planked it. I became overwhelmed with the detail of determining where to paint and where to mask. As a compromise, I put 3 coats of epoxy resin and sanded each part on the bench (before erecting on the frame). I'm not looking forward to painting the interior, but at least I will have less epoxy to apply and sand.

    Regards,

  9. #79
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    Default Re: A Beg-Meil for Boston

    Quote Originally Posted by Rich Jones View Post
    I live not far from John Hartmann and saw his Ilur (same hull design) go together. I was amazed at the planning and precision of the molds, bulkheads, etc. and how everything went together to save time and produce a very strong hull. That is one very talented naval architect.
    I've been eyeing Don Kurylko's D-18 Myst for many years now.
    I always thought it could be built like this, he gives great detail in the plans for bulkheads and so on. With a little bit of planning it could be done I'm sure.

    This thread has inspired me to pull out those plans (again) and have a good old fashioned think!...... (again)
    "People should be able to access these benefits [Social Welfare] as a matter of right, with no more loss of their own standards of self-respect than would be involved in collecting from an insurance company the proceeds of an endowment policy on which they have been paying premiums for years."
    Robert Menzies - Liberal Party (Conservative) Prime Minister of Australia.

  10. #80
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    Default Re: A Beg-Meil for Boston

    I've installed a few more strips. At 3/4" per strip, even a 15 foot boat seems big. As I've added these strips, it has occurred to me that I don't have much bond area where each strip crosses a frame. The frames are 9mm or 15mm thick. The photo below is a 15mm, shown with the staples that serve a clamps to hold the strips in place until the epoxy cures.




    The 9 mm frames have little bonding surface:



    For frames that won't be seen in the completed hull, I'm thinking about installing fiberglass tape "shear clips" to beef up the connection.

    Like here (inside a buoyancy compartment):



    I'm thinking about 4" biaxial (+/- 45) fiberglass tape. Is it sacrilegious to use fiberglass like this?

    As always, your input is most appreciated.

  11. #81
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    Default Re: A Beg-Meil for Boston

    I'd suggest thickened epoxy fillets would work every well.

    Chris

  12. #82
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    Default Re: A Beg-Meil for Boston

    Hi Dean,

    I'm sure others will be along to give advice too, but I think a medium-sized fillet of thickened goop would do the trick.

    I did use a fillet and fiberglass tape where my skeg joins the hull, since I wanted super-strength, but it was a messy operation. Maybe a mock-up plywood corner to practice on?

    Looking good!

    Mike
    "near it, a small whale-boat, painted red and blue, the delight of the king's old age."

  13. #83
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    Default Re: A Beg-Meil for Boston

    Installing the strips is slow, but I press on. I've been using (TotalBoat) epoxy in the caulking gun compatible packaging. It it very convenient, though I will go through many static mixing tips before I am done. I've also been going through a lot of green masking tape:





    Mike and Chris - Thanks for the suggestions on fillets. I mixed up some epoxy and added wood flour and fumed silica to make this fillet in the bow:



    Once the planking is complete, I will complete the fillets when the hull is right side up. For now, I am filleting the areas that are within the flotation compartments and are easier to access now than later (I think).



    Where the planking meets the transom, also within a flotation chamber, I put a layer of fiberglass tape over the fillet. Again, I will run the fillet and tape all around the transom to planking joint once the boat is turned over. I used 4" biaxial, 17 ounce tape. It's heavier than the application requires, but I wanted biax and did not find many options to choose from.

    More pictures to follow...

  14. #84
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    Default Re: A Beg-Meil for Boston

    Quote Originally Posted by DeanP View Post
    Installing the strips is slow, but I press on. I've been using (TotalBoat) epoxy in the caulking gun compatible packaging. It it very convenient, though I will go through many static mixing tips before I am done. I've also been going through a lot of green masking tape:

    Where the planking meets the transom, also within a flotation chamber, I put a layer of fiberglass tape over the fillet. Again, I will run the fillet and tape all around the transom to planking joint once the boat is turned over. I used 4" biaxial, 17 ounce tape. It's heavier than the application requires, but I wanted biax and did not find many options to choose from.

    More pictures to follow...
    Looking great! It seems to me that the fillets and fillets+tape will be very strong.

    Jason

  15. #85
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    Default Re: A Beg-Meil for Boston

    First post in a long time. Strip planking has caused me much heart ache. Some of it has been chronicled here:

    http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...ighlight=strip

    The advice of many posters proved very helpful. I cut away the twisted strips, found a (more) fair line, and incorporated "stealers" to keep the strips laying fair. After a while, even the stealers had trouble and I started steaming the strips. This allowed me to incorporate the twist between the flat bottom and the vertical stem.



    I have been using a piece of PVC pipe as a steam box. It does not take the temperature well, but has served to prove the concept of steaming strips. After steaming, I tack a strip in place, let it dry overnight and epoxy it on the next night. A steamed and dried strip comes out like this:




    The process was very slow...



    Attached Images Attached Images

  16. #86
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    Default Re: A Beg-Meil for Boston

    Finally, I started to overlap the keelson:




    Here, I'm approaching the centerboard well. The plan is to strip completely over it and cut is out after the diagonals and glass have been laid.


  17. #87
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    Default Re: A Beg-Meil for Boston

    I started to sand the completed side. It's still to early to tell if it will be fair.



    When I get sick of sanding, there are plenty of strips to place on the other side:


  18. #88
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    Default Re: A Beg-Meil for Boston

    Dean - glad to see your posts, keep up your spirits as you trudge through the sanding....it can be tedious, for sure. I had wondered about this lovely boat and how she was coming along, but here it turns out I missed the thread with all the troubles with the strips. It seems, from what I can see, that you have overcome the issues and will have a nice fair hull. May that turn out to be the case! One day you will look back at the trouble and laugh, "ha, that was way worse than this new issue I have to figure out....." Have no fear, that boat is going to be lovely.....

  19. #89
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    Default Re: A Beg-Meil for Boston

    Agreed. Plus it was nice of you to let me get ahead of you a bit since so much of your internal structure is already done!

    Glad to see you coming back after the setback. This

    I started to sand the completed side. It's still to early to tell if it will be fair.



    looks great!

    Got to go get the boy!

    MO
    "near it, a small whale-boat, painted red and blue, the delight of the king's old age."

  20. #90
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    Default Re: A Beg-Meil for Boston

    It has been a while since I posted any photos. Progress has been slow, but I continue to work...

    Here, I'm nearing completion of the port side strips.

    [IMG][/IMG]

    Here, I've completed one side and have started to sand. There's quite a bit more sanding to go and some fill, too.

    [IMG][/IMG]

    I had to cut quite a number of strips from this side, too, as they were not laying well. I started to steam the strips which has enabled me to lay them reasonably well from the vertical stem to the (relatively) flat transom. I'll post some photos of the steaming operation soon.

    [IMG][/IMG]

  21. #91
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    Default Re: A Beg-Meil for Boston

    I finally finished stripping the first layer. Now I have some sanding and filling to do before I can start the first layer of diagonals. I hope this next part goes more smoothly than the first.







    I'll post a few more photos as soon as the first diagonals are laid down...

  22. #92
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    Default Re: A Beg-Meil for Boston

    Very nice! It's interesting to see our same hull shapes in the 2 different planking types.

    Is the next (diagonal) layer wider strips, like cold-molded? I didn't know you were doing another layer, though it sort of rings a bell.

    Sending you good mojo for the next layer!

    Mike
    "near it, a small whale-boat, painted red and blue, the delight of the king's old age."

  23. #93
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    Default Re: A Beg-Meil for Boston

    Lovely looking hull!
    Love that shape. How exciting.
    "People should be able to access these benefits [Social Welfare] as a matter of right, with no more loss of their own standards of self-respect than would be involved in collecting from an insurance company the proceeds of an endowment policy on which they have been paying premiums for years."
    Robert Menzies - Liberal Party (Conservative) Prime Minister of Australia.

  24. #94
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    Default Re: A Beg-Meil for Boston

    Quote Originally Posted by Falcon1 View Post
    Very nice! It's interesting to see our same hull shapes in the 2 different planking types.

    Is the next (diagonal) layer wider strips, like cold-molded? I didn't know you were doing another layer, though it sort of rings a bell.

    Sending you good mojo for the next layer!

    Mike
    Hi Mike,

    Two more layers (+/-45 degrees)! I need all the good mojo I can get.

    Quote Originally Posted by gypsie View Post
    Lovely looking hull!
    Love that shape. How exciting.
    Thanks. The picture looks better than the hull feels right now. I'm sanding and filling, trying to determine how good it has to be before the next layer can be applied.

  25. #95
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    Default Re: A Beg-Meil for Boston

    I finally finished sanding and filling the strips and now have just started the cold molding. I bought a pallet of WRC in 1/8" x 4" veneers from Americas Wood in Maine. I installed the "master veneer" along the line were it seemed to lay the most fair, but it certainly did not want to lay against the hull without a lot of coaxing.

    I started with a layer of neat resin:



    I used a mix of resin and fumed silica to make a thick adhesive. After locating the veneer and tacking it in place with plastic staples, I bagged the strip and applied some vacuum pressure.




    The system leaked a bit, but I was able to generate 7-8 psi clamping force:




    The squeeze-out had had made a mess after I removed the bag. It had cured to much to easily scrape and sanding was far too slow.



    The scraper combined with the heat gun ended up the only solution I could find. Now that it's cleaned up, I have to learn how to spile (sp?) and but on gangs of veneers for each vacuum bagging cycle.



    More to follow.

  26. #96
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    Default Re: A Beg-Meil for Boston

    That seems so labour intensive.
    Wouldn't it be better to spring for a plastic stapler or something and just pop in a whole lotta staples to get it flat? If they are plastic, you just leave the there - they even sand okay.
    "People should be able to access these benefits [Social Welfare] as a matter of right, with no more loss of their own standards of self-respect than would be involved in collecting from an insurance company the proceeds of an endowment policy on which they have been paying premiums for years."
    Robert Menzies - Liberal Party (Conservative) Prime Minister of Australia.

  27. #97
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    Default Re: A Beg-Meil for Boston

    Quote Originally Posted by gypsie View Post
    That seems so labour intensive.
    Wouldn't it be better to spring for a plastic stapler or something and just pop in a whole lotta staples to get it flat? If they are plastic, you just leave the there - they even sand okay.
    So far, it seems that the spiling is the labor intensive operation. The plan is to vacuum bag as many veneers as I can lay up within the pot life of a batch of epoxy. (I will start with 3-4 strips and increase as I develop a rhythm for the task.) I have a pneumatic staple gun that sets plastic staples. I used it to tack the master veneer, but plan to use the vacuum system to ensure even clamping pressure. I put down quite a few staples on the one strip I have installed so far and still felt like more clamping was required to keep the veneer tight to hull.

    If I end up going with just staples, it's not clear to me how many staples would be required per veneer, but it seems like a lot based on this one strip...

    Dean

  28. #98
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    Default Re: A Beg-Meil for Boston

    Looking good whatever you decide, and the vacuum did give a lovely snug fit.
    Was my laziness showing?
    "People should be able to access these benefits [Social Welfare] as a matter of right, with no more loss of their own standards of self-respect than would be involved in collecting from an insurance company the proceeds of an endowment policy on which they have been paying premiums for years."
    Robert Menzies - Liberal Party (Conservative) Prime Minister of Australia.

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