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Thread: Realistic Water Based Enamel Option?

  1. #1
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    Default Realistic Water Based Enamel Option?

    I'm going to state clearly from the outset that I'm unfussy when it comes to the finish on my own boats. I like them a bit rough, a bit workboat. Wholesale cutting in and a thorough but quick prep job are my style.

    Right, that said. I'm sharing my recent use of a new (to me at least) water based enamel.
    I'm hypersensitive to solvents and toxins so have been trying pretty much every water based alternative as they come available. This time around it's been way too long between slippings for the good ship 'Blink', so there were a few potentials.

    Taubman's Ultimate Alkyd Enamel is what I've used on the topsides and bulwarks. I have to say, in my experience it's the first time a water based paint has given a finish that has an honest element of the oil based enamel that we all know so well. Actually it comes pretty damn close.

    http://www.taubmans.com.au/paints/ultimate-alkyd-enamel

    If you're looking for a direct replacement, a paint that comes off the brush in the same way, that dries to the same timetable and has exactly the same look, then this isn't it.
    If you're cool to learn the behavior of this new paint, to experiment and explore it's similarities and differences, then I think it's worth your time to give this stuff a go. I'm certainly happy so far!

    Details:
    - I did a two month test on a 1 meter length of bulwark. No issues whatsoever after 2 months. That was good enough for me to go ahead and do the whole boat. A long term durability call will have to come with time.
    - I prepped solidly and spot primed with the recommended '3 in 1' primer, wiped down with a damp rag, let dry and went with it.
    - Weather for painting was a challenging 30 degrees and full sun, moderate breeze.
    - The bulwarks are brushed, two coats.
    - The hull is rolled, one coat. not tipped off.





  2. #2
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    Default Re: Realistic Water Based Enamel Option?

    So it actually levels before skinning off Mikey ?
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Realistic Water Based Enamel Option?

    It's different Peter, I'm certainly still experimenting. It doesn't skin in the same way and stays workable for way longer if you apply it thicker than for oil. It then lays down nicely as it dries.
    At $33 bucks a 1L tin have a play with it on some architraves or something...

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Realistic Water Based Enamel Option?

    I too prefer the lower toxicity of dihydrogen monoxide for a paint solvent on my own boats. And since I no longer am responsible for anyone else's boat's finish but my own, I am even more happy to reduce my exposure to any more toxic paint than necessary. I love workboat style practical and workmanlike finishes. Yacht-grade painting is finicky, ostentatious, overly-precious, frou-frou nonsense. There, I said it. I'm retired from shipwrighting. You can't make me wet sand an entire topsides to 600 grit ever again. My handmade wooden boats are going to have handmade finishes forever onwards, with careful, efficient brushwork instead of trying to look like automobiles or refrigerators.

    I really can't stress that enough: how much I despise the absurd excess of an über-gloss shiny finish on small wooden boats. And now that I don't have to, I ain't gonna.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Realistic Water Based Enamel Option?

    Have you tried feather sanding it Mikey ? The problem I have with acrylic is repair, I never seem to be able to sand it down to a feather edge to repair a ding .... and I assure you my painting is rough, rough like a carpenter painting.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Realistic Water Based Enamel Option?

    Peter: Once dry, it sands and feathers just like oil enamel.

    James: I'm looking forward to seeing you at the next South East Asian/ Oceania Ex-Shipwrights Anonymous meeting! We like to throw paint at a wall from a good distance and marvel at how fabulous it looks.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Realistic Water Based Enamel Option?

    Great, I'll try it .
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Realistic Water Based Enamel Option?

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterSibley View Post
    Great, I'll try it .
    Great! Post your findings Peter.

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    Default Re: Realistic Water Based Enamel Option?

    I thought Oceania was at war with Eastasia. Oceania has always been at war with Eastasia.

    Ex-shipwrights should fit right in.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Realistic Water Based Enamel Option?

    I have become a great fan of Benjamin Moore porch and floor latex enamel for my wooden boats. Extremely long lasting, I can actually sand off the dried scum of a season at the mooring without noticeably damaging the underlying paint. Applied by roll and tip, I get a reasonable workboat finish.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Realistic Water Based Enamel Option?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mikey Floyd View Post
    I'm going to state clearly from the outset that I'm unfussy when it comes to the finish on my own boats. I like them a bit rough, a bit workboat. Wholesale cutting in and a thorough but quick prep job are my style.

    Right, that said. I'm sharing my recent use of a new (to me at least) water based enamel.
    I'm hypersensitive to solvents and toxins so have been trying pretty much every water based alternative as they come available. This time around it's been way too long between slippings for the good ship 'Blink', so there were a few potentials.

    Taubman's Ultimate Alkyd Enamel is what I've used on the topsides and bulwarks. I have to say, in my experience it's the first time a water based paint has given a finish that has an honest element of the oil based enamel that we all know so well. Actually it comes pretty damn close.

    http://www.taubmans.com.au/paints/ultimate-alkyd-enamel

    If you're looking for a direct replacement, a paint that comes off the brush in the same way, that dries to the same timetable and has exactly the same look, then this isn't it.
    If you're cool to learn the behavior of this new paint, to experiment and explore it's similarities and differences, then I think it's worth your time to give this stuff a go. I'm certainly happy so far!

    Details:
    - I did a two month test on a 1 meter length of bulwark. No issues whatsoever after 2 months. That was good enough for me to go ahead and do the whole boat. A long term durability call will have to come with time.
    - I prepped solidly and spot primed with the recommended '3 in 1' primer, wiped down with a damp rag, let dry and went with it.
    - Weather for painting was a challenging 30 degrees and full sun, moderate breeze.
    - The bulwarks are brushed, two coats.
    - The hull is rolled, one coat. not tipped off.




    That looks a bit bloody fancy I reckon.

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    Default Re: Realistic Water Based Enamel Option?

    Quote Originally Posted by James McMullen View Post
    I too prefer the lower toxicity of dihydrogen monoxide for a paint solvent on my own boats. And since I no longer am responsible for anyone else's boat's finish but my own, I am even more happy to reduce my exposure to any more toxic paint than necessary. I love workboat style practical and workmanlike finishes. Yacht-grade painting is finicky, ostentatious, overly-precious, frou-frou nonsense. There, I said it. I'm retired from shipwrighting. You can't make me wet sand an entire topsides to 600 grit ever again. My handmade wooden boats are going to have handmade finishes forever onwards, with careful, efficient brushwork instead of trying to look like automobiles or refrigerators.

    I really can't stress that enough: how much I despise the absurd excess of an über-gloss shiny finish on small wooden boats. And now that I don't have to, I ain't gonna.
    Well, you don't have to throw a tantrum about it, do you?

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Realistic Water Based Enamel Option?

    I've used what sounds like a similar paint from a local producer and been very happy:

    Cloverdale Paint, based in BC, Canada has a "Renaissance interior/exterior waterbourne alkyd enamel" which I've found to be an good substitute for oil based enamels. It goes on smoothly, self levels well, and only smells mildly of soap. So far it's held up well for a couple years, and when the time comes to refinish it sands acceptably, which seems to be a common failing with water based products.



  14. #14
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    Default Re: Realistic Water Based Enamel Option?

    I have had very good luck with an industrial water-born enamel from Pittsburgh Paints called "Breakthrough." Price is good, they can tint it to any color in their chart. Rolls and tips smoothly and by the time you have gone around the boat once it's dry enough for the second coat.

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    Default Re: Realistic Water Based Enamel Option?

    Somebody help me out here. The opening comments are about water based paints, but the paint in question is an alkyd paint, which I had thought to be the replacement for what was called oil based paint. Is there a water-based alkyd? What does alkyd mean, then?
    Thnx in advance.

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Realistic Water Based Enamel Option?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Cleek View Post
    Well, you don't have to throw a tantrum about it, do you?
    McMullet is just gassing off again! Unfortunately with the prevailing westerly winds we here on the east coast get the brunt of it!
    Steamboat

    I get by with the judicious use of serendipity.

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Realistic Water Based Enamel Option?

    Alkyd paints are oil paints. Waterborne alkyd paints are oil paints that are emulsified in water and work like oil paints except you can sometimes thin them and usually clean them up with water.

    Why someone would compare these new waterborne paints to acrylic or latex paint is beyond me. They are totally different animals and with the exception of water clean-up there are no similarities

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Realistic Water Based Enamel Option?

    Local fishing boats use white waterbased house paint on topsides and superstructures . They repaint every year so its a good option.

    the waterbased house paints never hold a shine very long. They scuff and stain easily. This makes them hard to clean .

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Realistic Water Based Enamel Option?

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Y View Post
    That looks a bit bloody fancy I reckon.
    If waterborn silicum particles 14SI are available in your area give them a try on your paint. These nano particles cling to the surface, bead water, make the paint easy to clean and most importantly they retard UV damage.

    they are very effective.

    this is a common product. http://www.permanonfinishes.com/boat-yacht.htm

    many others availbale...typically added into car wash rinses. Ask around at an auto shop. You may be able to buy a combo wash down soap , 14si product

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Realistic Water Based Enamel Option?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Cleek View Post
    Well, you don't have to throw a tantrum about it, do you?
    Good grief, Bob! How long have you known me, anyways? Of course I have to throw a tantrum about it. It's what I do.

  21. #21
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    Default Re: Realistic Water Based Enamel Option?

    I would like to know more about these...oil based paints in my area are rapidly disappearing, and ordering online puts everything at the $100 plus amounts per gallon when you add shipping. I have latex paint on my skerry and it is quite poor, comes off in 3" diamonds after being soaked for a week...might be prepping, or lack thereof. It is ply, and no glass.
    Re-naming straits as necessary.

  22. #22
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    Default Re: Realistic Water Based Enamel Option?

    Quote Originally Posted by slug View Post
    If waterborn silicum particles 14SI are available in your area give them a try on your paint. These nano particles cling to the surface, bead water, make the paint easy to clean and most importantly they retard UV damage.

    they are very effective.

    this is a common product. http://www.permanonfinishes.com/boat-yacht.htm

    many others availbale...typically added into car wash rinses. Ask around at an auto shop. You may be able to buy a combo wash down soap , 14si product

    They might be fun to paint over too!
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  23. #23
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    Default Re: Realistic Water Based Enamel Option?

    Painting is never fun. The 14si film doesnt effect over coating with paint

  24. #24
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    Default Re: Realistic Water Based Enamel Option?

    All I know is that silicon is a painter's nightmare ...perhaps your product is different.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  25. #25
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    Default Re: Realistic Water Based Enamel Option?

    Silicon is what they make chips out of...not potato chips, computer chips.

    silicone is what they make boobs out of.


    hosting imagenes



    when you sand your boat you most likely are using silicon carbide sand paper.

    It produces no paint adhesion issues.
    Last edited by slug; 01-12-2016 at 05:16 AM.

  26. #26
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    Default Re: Realistic Water Based Enamel Option?

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael D. Storey View Post
    Somebody help me out here. The opening comments are about water based paints, but the paint in question is an alkyd paint, which I had thought to be the replacement for what was called oil based paint. Is there a water-based alkyd? What does alkyd mean, then?
    Thnx in advance.
    Quote Originally Posted by trent hink View Post
    Alkyd paints are oil paints. Waterborne alkyd paints are oil paints that are emulsified in water and work like oil paints except you can sometimes thin them and usually clean them up with water.

    Why someone would compare these new waterborne paints to acrylic or latex paint is beyond me. They are totally different animals and with the exception of water clean-up there are no similarities
    Quote Originally Posted by davebrown View Post
    I would like to know more about these...oil based paints in my area are rapidly disappearing, and ordering online puts everything at the $100 plus amounts per gallon when you add shipping. I have latex paint on my skerry and it is quite poor, comes off in 3" diamonds after being soaked for a week...might be prepping, or lack thereof. It is ply, and no glass.
    I'm no paint chemist that's for sure but I can look up 'Alkyd' and 'Paint' on Wikipedia. I know a (very) little about emulsion in the context of varnish. It seems to me likely that Trent has generalised well with the summary above. Alkyd's are simply synthesized resins, originally used in paint as a replacement for natural resins that ooze out the side of various trees and plants. The latest Alkyd Paint we are talking about here may or may not have very much to do with anything that has come before beyond presumably having at least some portion of Alkyd resins in the mix.
    As far as I'm concerned, I read the instructions on the tin, sometimes make a call to the technical help department for a bit deeper information and then selectively apply and ignore that advice as seems fit to my situation. Regarding what words they use to describe their new product, I reckon that has a whole lot more to do with marketing than anything else and unless you're a budding paint chemist is better ignored.

    Hmmm new water based paint on the shelf. Think I'll try it out and see what it's like.
    Last edited by Mikey Floyd; 01-12-2016 at 07:28 AM.

  27. #27
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    Default Re: Realistic Water Based Enamel Option?

    Whenever I have a coating question I ask the technical department of the paint company.

    the big companies...Sherwin Williams, akzo NobeL



    they aways give a technicaly correct answer.

    thier website normally address all your questions and inform you of the different paints so ghat you can ask better questions.

    sherwin Williams has a good website. http://protective.sherwin-williams.c...tt=water+based

    many of the best paints are industrial...5 gallon buckets.

  28. #28
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    Default Re: Realistic Water Based Enamel Option?

    Quote Originally Posted by trent hink View Post
    Alkyd paints are oil paints. Waterborne alkyd paints are oil paints that are emulsified in water and work like oil paints except you can sometimes thin them and usually clean them up with water.

    Why someone would compare these new waterborne paints to acrylic or latex paint is beyond me. They are totally different animals and with the exception of water clean-up there are no similarities
    Thanks man

  29. #29
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    Default Re: Realistic Water Based Enamel Option?

    [QUOTE=trent hink;4765186

    Why someone would compare these new waterborne paints to acrylic or latex paint is beyond me. They are totally different animals and with the exception of water clean-up there are no similarities[/QUOTE]


    People want to and will compare the different "animals" because all are paint. Paint is the commonality.

    Jeff

  30. #30
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    Default Re: Realistic Water Based Enamel Option?

    If you have alkyd emulsified in water, and clean up in water, are you not putting alkyd down the drain?

  31. #31
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    Default Re: Realistic Water Based Enamel Option?

    Interesting. So regardless of the intricacies of the chemistry/marketing spin, maybe there is a new breed of water clean up paint, which performs more like oil based. And Alkyd is the key word to look for on the label. That's what Im getting from this anyway. Oh and that woman's boobs are way too big. I mean I like them generous, but nah.

  32. #32
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    Default Re: Realistic Water Based Enamel Option?

    When I had my tri, I painted the cabin sides with Dulux Aquanamel. It was hardwearing and didnt seem to go chalky as quickly as oil based enamels. That was a few years ago now, and I think waterborne finishes are an area of paint technology that has advanced a lot in recent years.

    The OP's boat in the pic certainly looks good!

    Edited to add, Many original automotive finishes have been waterborne for some years. They seem to last well.
    There is nothing quite as permanent as a good temporary repair.

  33. #33
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    Default Re: Realistic Water Based Enamel Option?

    18 Month check in on this paint. Looks good to me.

    Same paint on the samson posts too and it is holding up in this high abrasion spot admirably. Also no little checks or paint splits on the upward facing endgrain, which there always has been previously using regular oil enamel.

    ps, Topsides here have been subjected to 500+ dinghy arrivals and departures in all weather.



  34. #34
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    Default Re: Realistic Water Based Enamel Option?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mikey Floyd View Post
    Great! Post your findings Peter.
    Hi Mikey, I couldn't find this thread and forgot the name of the stuff so I bought my standard oil based enamel .
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  35. #35
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    Default

    That is a beautiful boat Micky, I'd love to hear more about her, and thanks for the info on the paint. Will have to give it a go.

    So far I've been having resonable success with dulux aquaenamel for boat interior work. I can't get it to level out very well, and it takes a few coats to cover. But the quick drying and recoating times are a real plus, and the lack of smell and easy cleanup a big bonus. Do you have any comparisions between the two paints?

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