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Thread: An Ilur in R.I.

  1. #281
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    Default Re: An Ilur in R.I.

    When my Alaska is on the trailer, it becomes obvious in the rear-view mirror that the stem is not quite vertical, but leans slightly to starboard. Never bothers me when I'm afloat! I'd guess many observers will never notice.

    Tom
    You don't have to be prepared as long as you're willing to suffer the consequences.

    www.tompamperin.com

  2. #282
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    Default Re: An Ilur in R.I.

    When I flipped my Navigator back upright I noticed that the stem and centerboard are not in perfect alignment. This is good, because now when I fall overboard, the boat will circle back around to get me.

    Kenny
    Almost everything about boats involves so much more time and money than one anticipates that rational and accurate planning will deter even starting. Ian McColgin

  3. #283
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    Default Re: An Ilur in R.I.

    Thanks for the reassurances! Kenny your self-rescue scenario is brilliant!

    All nine stations now have frames. The cant frames up in the bow went fine this AM, then the aft-most pieces were slated to go next.
    One piece broke, but then, after another 15 minutes of steam, they went in fine. They definitely don't all touch in all the places they are supposed to, but hopefully, as I rivet my way up from the keel towards the sheer, I can pull them in or shim the places that need it. Riveting is the next big adventure!

    [IMG]six frames by Michael Owen, on Flickr[/IMG]

    [IMG]steamin in driveway by Michael Owen, on Flickr[/IMG]

    [IMG]cant frames by Michael Owen, on Flickr[/IMG]

    [IMG]allframes by Michael Owen, on Flickr[/IMG]

    [IMG]all frames by Michael Owen, on Flickr[/IMG]

    I'm looking forward to riveting both for the experience of doing it, and hopefully, for the stiffening up of the hull.

    I'm not sure how I'll get access to garboards. The choices are:tilting the hull over, which could cause mis-shapenness, or to build up some bracing so the keel is about a foot off the floor and level everything in all directions. This would be my preferred method, but I'm concerned about climbing in and out and putting all my weight on the planking. I guess if I do enough bracing, it will be OK.

    Thanks for looking!

    Mike
    "near it, a small whale-boat, painted red and blue, the delight of the king's old age."

  4. #284
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    Default Re: An Ilur in R.I.

    My wife Margaret and I have been picking away at the riveting this last week. She has been an awesome helper! She's been on the outside, so after I drill a hole, she drives the copper nail in, then backs it up with the dolly as I drive the rove down onto the shank and then as I peen the end over.
    It's been really fun!

    The frames don't lie as perfectly as I could wish, so for now there are some spots with no rivet. I may insert shims later and rivet these places.

    A few photos ...

    First, using a plumb bob to make sure the frames are, well, plumb.

    [IMG]plumb bob by Michael Owen, on Flickr[/IMG]

    Then, the tools of the trade.

    [IMG]tools by Michael Owen, on Flickr[/IMG]

    [IMG]some rivets by Michael Owen, on Flickr[/IMG]

    This is one of the cant frames up front.

    [IMG]many rivets by Michael Owen, on Flickr[/IMG]

    Here's a view of Margaret's side. Nice handiwork there, honey!

    [IMG]outside by Michael Owen, on Flickr[/IMG]

    And an overview. We're about halfway through. Even though riveting a frame is pretty quick, there's a bit of head scratching and adjustment in between. They are not perfect, but I'm hoping that the bulkheads and gunwales will make up for it.

    [IMG]coming along by Michael Owen, on Flickr[/IMG]

    Cheers!

    Mike
    "near it, a small whale-boat, painted red and blue, the delight of the king's old age."

  5. #285
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    Default Re: An Ilur in R.I.

    Looking good Mike . I've not done any rivetting ...maybe the next boat ??
    PeterW

  6. #286
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    Default Re: An Ilur in R.I.

    Mike , how will you seal the rivets against moisture?

  7. #287
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    Default Re: An Ilur in R.I.

    much as i'm appreciating building the kit, i think this is a whole lot more pleasing aesthetically!

  8. #288
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    Default Re: An Ilur in R.I.

    Nice indeed! Sure is something to be said for that classic look, isn't there?
    Ken

  9. #289
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    Default Re: An Ilur in R.I.

    Thanks for the kind words, folks. Andrew, the plan is to put a couple of dabs of CPES on/around each rivet head hoping for maximum penetration, then a coat or two of epoxy on the whole hull, then primer and paint.

    Inside gets a similar treatment. Hopefully this will prevent moisture coming in. I will definitely be keeping an eye out for water ingress!
    The designer did specify rivets and glued lap plywood.

    Mike
    "near it, a small whale-boat, painted red and blue, the delight of the king's old age."

  10. #290
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    Bolton, Massachusetts, USA
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    Default Re: An Ilur in R.I.

    Hi Mike,

    It's looking great. You keep getting further and further ahead of me. In my plane, any rivet that needed to be watertight (read fuel tight) was installed "wet". Each rivet was dipped in polysulfide sealant before bucking. It was messy, but did work! I think such a practice would be considered overkill for a boat.

    Good luck,

    Dean

  11. #291
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    Default Re: An Ilur in R.I.

    'I have a question from way back when you were building. Did you customize bulkhead 7 to your own specs? It looks like a better solution than what M. Vivier has in the mylar patterns. It looks like you made the oar-stowage holes wider and notched out a resting place for the longitudinal carling, then made the plywood follow the front of the center-case and back out to each side.'

    ^^I received the above query from Mike through my blog and he asked me to answer on here. I posted the query to try and avoid any cunfusion for others following this thread!

    Mike, I didn't modify the bulkhead at all. I just followed the mylar plans. Could Francois Vivier have updated the patterns since I built my Ilur??

  12. #292
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    Default Re: An Ilur in R.I.

    It seems that Mr. Vivier updates the plans frequently. For example, puzzle joints to snap the two components of each strake together were simpler when John Hartmann built his Ilur Waxwing than the more complex puzzle joints that were on the strakes of my kit. The result was a tight fit with no wiggle room to ensure perfect alignment. I know that Clint Chase came up with another ingenious 3-D method that achieves the same objective.

    Following your build with great interest as it is so different from the glued-lapstrake version. Looking good!

    Chris

  13. #293
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    Default Re: An Ilur in R.I.

    Thanks so much for the quick reply Tim! I'll bet Vivier changed the plans a bit, but I think I like the way it was done on your build. The oar stowage holes are a tad smaller, but the bulkhead itself would have more structural integrity.

    Here is a photo of my plans, which the mylar patterns echo. The cut out goes all the way to the top of the bulkhead, and there's no central vertical piece.
    Also note that there is a rectangle to the left where one would have to router or cutout a landing spot for the longitudinal carling that is a major support for the floor.

    [IMG]IMG_1223 by Michael Owen, on Flickr[/IMG]

    Here is a photo from Tim's blog showing the area.

    [IMG]bulkhead 7 tims ilur by Michael Owen, on Flickr[/IMG]

    Here is where I was when I messaged Tim last night. I had already begun to copy the photo of how he did it just to see how it looked. The poked holes show how my set of patterns would have it made.

    [IMG]IMG_1225 by Michael Owen, on Flickr[/IMG]

    I may write to M. Vivier and ask him what he thinks. It's been a while since I pestered him! (I've actually only written him once, and he was great.)

    I'd also like to take this opportunity to thank Tim, and John H. and all the others who share such painstaking records of their work. This is a great community and a most valuable resource. Hats off! Hip, hip, hurrah!

    Mike
    "near it, a small whale-boat, painted red and blue, the delight of the king's old age."

  14. #294
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    Default Re: An Ilur in R.I.

    Mike, the build is coming along well—she’s beautiful! Looking at the picture of your ribs crossing the inner keelson, and then at Tim’s picture from his build, it looks as though you will have to nip the ribs which cross where the case and case logs rest on the keelson....I can’t tell from FV’s diagram about the rib ends which abut the case logs....do they float free, or are they afixed to the logs somehow? Is the keelson wide enough and case narrow enough so that the rib ends rest on the keelson?

  15. #295
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    Default Re: An Ilur in R.I.

    Quote Originally Posted by Falcon1 View Post
    Thanks so much for the quick reply Tim! I'll bet Vivier changed the plans a bit, but I think I like the way it was done on your build. The oar stowage holes are a tad smaller, but the bulkhead itself would have more structural integrity.

    Here is a photo of my plans, which the mylar patterns echo. The cut out goes all the way to the top of the bulkhead, and there's no central vertical piece.
    Also note that there is a rectangle to the left where one would have to router or cutout a landing spot for the longitudinal carling that is a major support for the floor.

    [IMG]IMG_1223 by Michael Owen, on Flickr[/IMG]

    Here is a photo from Tim's blog showing the area.

    [IMG]bulkhead 7 tims ilur by Michael Owen, on Flickr[/IMG]

    Here is where I was when I messaged Tim last night. I had already begun to copy the photo of how he did it just to see how it looked. The poked holes show how my set of patterns would have it made.

    [IMG]IMG_1225 by Michael Owen, on Flickr[/IMG]

    I may write to M. Vivier and ask him what he thinks. It's been a while since I pestered him! (I've actually only written him once, and he was great.)

    I'd also like to take this opportunity to thank Tim, and John H. and all the others who share such painstaking records of their work. This is a great community and a most valuable resource. Hats off! Hip, hip, hurrah!

    Mike
    Well, the centerboard is tenoned into the bottom of both thwarts, so that is the same as before. Also, if you look at the bulkhead at the aft end of the centerboard, that doesn't have the horizontal top piece. So it is following the same design as that. Maybe he decided it was over engineered that way. Not having the horizontal top piece would definitely make it easier to get the oars out. Maybe he changed purely for simplification?

  16. #296
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    Default Re: An Ilur in R.I.

    Quote Originally Posted by John hartmann View Post
    Mike, the build is coming along well—she’s beautiful! Looking at the picture of your ribs crossing the inner keelson, and then at Tim’s picture from his build, it looks as though you will have to nip the ribs which cross where the case and case logs rest on the keelson....I can’t tell from FV’s diagram about the rib ends which abut the case logs....do they float free, or are they afixed to the logs somehow? Is the keelson wide enough and case narrow enough so that the rib ends rest on the keelson?
    This might clear things up John!


  17. #297
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    Default Re: An Ilur in R.I.

    Indeed..Thanks!

  18. #298
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    Default Re: An Ilur in R.I.

    As an aside to John's question about the ribs that cross the CB slot, last night I wondered what tool to use to cut them. I had borrowed an oscillating tool from work last week to cut the ribs at the gunwale, but returned it the next day. I cast my eyes about the garage and alighted on this little guy that I got second hand. Perfect! A little wax on the blade helped.
    [IMG]IMG_1231 by Michael Owen, on Flickr[/IMG]

    Today, I cut out the CB case sides and stuck a couple of temp. posts in and set it in place. Voila! Lots of work to go yet, but so far everything fits.

    [IMG]IMG_1232 by Michael Owen, on Flickr[/IMG]

    I'm waiting to hear from Francois Vivier regarding the old version of bulkhead 7 that I want to use. That little piece of ply forward of the case is a stand-in.

    Backtracking a bit, here I am making templates for the bulkheads with the station molds, hot glue and cardboard pieces.
    [IMG]IMG_1219 by Michael Owen, on Flickr[/IMG]

    And the finished bulkhead 2. Sorry it's so dark.

    Thanks for following along!

    Mike
    [IMG]IMG_1220 by Michael Owen, on Flickr[/IMG]
    "near it, a small whale-boat, painted red and blue, the delight of the king's old age."

  19. #299
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    Default Re: An Ilur in R.I.

    Very nice fit of the bulkhead, Mike. I did mine the same way, but yours are better! Yay for epoxy. (I'm not saying much, but I'm watching...) You're doing an excellent job.
    Cheers,
    Ian
    “Old Joke: ‘A bench fitter works to the nearest thousandth of an inch. A loco fitter (steam) works to the nearest inch. A shipwright works to the nearest ship’.”
    Alan Byde, Canoe Design and Construction, Pelham Books, 1978

    “...old maxim, 'A fair line supersedes any given measurement'.”
    Allan H. Vaitses, Lofting, International Marine, 1980

  20. #300
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    Default Re: An Ilur in R.I.

    Mike, looking at the CB box (depicted in #296), I don't see the "slot" into which the pivot pin of the center board slides. Is FV using a different CB design in your version?

    /Chris

  21. #301
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    Default Re: An Ilur in R.I.

    Hi all. Chris, there's no slot in my version, though I could have made one. I'm sure I'll regret it while trying to fiddle the CB pin into the hole.

    Speaking of centerboards, here's an update...

    I had planned to make the CB from solid timber like I did for my DB on last build. It came out great, and is still straight. It also would have allowed me to make it the proper 20mm thickness.
    But in the end, the ease of cutting it out of two pieces of my 9mm ply proved too tempting. To thicken it up a bit () as well as for strength, I added a piece of 'glass in the middle of the "sandwich."

    [IMG]IMG_1245 by Michael Owen, on Flickr[/IMG]

    [IMG]IMG_1246 by Michael Owen, on Flickr[/IMG]

    [IMG]IMG_1247 by Michael Owen, on Flickr[/IMG]

    The glue-up. Luckily, it came out perfectly flat, so outside it went for a bit of angle-grinder shaping. No math, or proper foil sections, just a round-over on the front and a taper on the back.
    Also the case has been dry-fitted.

    [IMG]IMG_1253 by Michael Owen, on Flickr[/IMG]

    [IMG]IMG_1248 by Michael Owen, on Flickr[/IMG]
    "near it, a small whale-boat, painted red and blue, the delight of the king's old age."

  22. #302
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    Default Re: An Ilur in R.I.

    After shaping I sheathed the whole blade in 'glass, except for the bit that sticks out. I'll be going with the new shock-cord operation instead of the cheek block and auto-release clam cleat that are in my plans, though I do like the "salty" effect of the gear. I think ease of use as well as cost-saving won out on that one .

    [IMG]IMG_1257 by Michael Owen, on Flickr[/IMG]

    I've got all the bits glued onto bulkhead 2 in the basement, and since this past Wednesday saw temps of about 50F, I glued in bulkhead 9. I did borrow my wife's space heater for the evening hours, and I'm happy yo report a full cure. Hoping for another heat wave so I can get #2 glued in!

    [IMG]IMG_1250 by Michael Owen, on Flickr[/IMG]

    [IMG]IMG_1258 by Michael Owen, on Flickr[/IMG]

    Thanks for looking!

    Mike
    "near it, a small whale-boat, painted red and blue, the delight of the king's old age."

  23. #303
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    Default Re: An Ilur in R.I.

    Nice work on that case and board!

  24. #304
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    Default Re: An Ilur in R.I.

    Thanks, Jason. Your build is looking great!

    Been working in the basement the past few weeks, due to cold temps outside. I've got most of the floor cleats and seat cleats glued to the bulkheads now. The bulkheads are just dry fit for now.
    I have had some fun sticking temporary boards down for "floors" and "seats" just to get a feel for what it'll be like to sit and stand in the boat. That is a real thrill!

    [IMG]IMG_1289 by Michael Owen, on Flickr[/IMG]

    The CB case now has fiberglass sheathing on the inside as recommended by the designer. The case has most of its bits glued on or in now, except for some small plywood doublers where the CB pivot will be.
    You can see the 1/16" thick UHMW plastic disc on the CB in the last photo. I'll glue these on next. A good idea poached from John H.

    Happy New Year!

    [IMG]IMG_1286 by Michael Owen, on Flickr[/IMG]

    [IMG]IMG_1287 by Michael Owen, on Flickr[/IMG]

    [IMG]IMG_1288 by Michael Owen, on Flickr[/IMG]
    "near it, a small whale-boat, painted red and blue, the delight of the king's old age."

  25. #305
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    Default Re: An Ilur in R.I.

    Happy new year Mike! Your Ilur is looking great!!!

  26. #306
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    Default Re: An Ilur in R.I.

    Hi Greg! I wanted to tell you that the latest issue of Boat Design Quarterly (#48) has a nice review of Tomcat. I think you can get them from the WB store if you don't subscribe.

    Cheers!
    "near it, a small whale-boat, painted red and blue, the delight of the king's old age."

  27. #307
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    Default Re: An Ilur in R.I.

    Great progress, very clean and tidy.
    Steamboat

    I get by with the judicious use of serendipity.

  28. #308
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    Default Re: An Ilur in R.I.

    Nice, thanks Mike. I'll go looking for it!

  29. #309
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    Default Re: An Ilur in R.I.

    any tips for getting that board glassing so neat? i've been putting that off..
    what was your cloth layout?

  30. #310
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    Default Re: An Ilur in R.I.

    Hi Jeff,
    Beginner's luck, maybe? I cut a piece of cloth a few inches over-size, laid it out and let it relax, then rolled it up and put it to the side. I wet out the board with neat epoxy, then unrolled the cloth onto the board. I used a plastic spreader (like for Bondo) to smooth it out, then mixed and added more epoxy using a foam brush. I was pretty generous with the goo at this point, and patient with spreading it evenly.

    I had the board blocked up so I could wrap around the sides about an inch. I had cut a few darts on the curves. That part was a messy nightmare. But all's well that ends well!

    Here's a look at my test piece of UHMW/plywood that I drilled today with the brass tube stuck in. Also the first disc actually glued on.

    [IMG]IMG_1291 by Michael Owen, on Flickr[/IMG]
    "near it, a small whale-boat, painted red and blue, the delight of the king's old age."

  31. #311
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    Default Re: An Ilur in R.I.

    More work on the CB and case today, while it snows and blows like crazy outside.

    A bit of old-fashioned hacksaw work on the brass tube I got to line the inside of the holes.
    [IMG]IMG_1299 by Michael Owen, on Flickr[/IMG]

    [IMG]IMG_1300 by Michael Owen, on Flickr[/IMG]

    The piece in the CB will just need a bit of filing to make sure it doesn't protrude past the UHMW disc.
    [IMG]IMG_1301 by Michael Owen, on Flickr[/IMG]

    The pieces in the CB case sides will also be flush. In the first pic, there is still a piece of plywood visible behind the hole. I had clamped that in there in order to measure the brass tube.

    [IMG]IMG_1302 by Michael Owen, on Flickr[/IMG]

    [IMG]IMG_1303 by Michael Owen, on Flickr[/IMG]

    In that last photo, which is upside-down, you can see the brass rod that will be the pivot pin lying on the table next to the case. This whole assembly was pretty time-consuming, and required a bit of head-scratching to figure out what order to do things in. It also weighs a ton! Good thing it's low and in the middle.

    Next is epoxying the brass bits in and the making a cover for them on each side. This cover is pretty important, since it keeps the ocean from coming into the boat where it doesn't belong!

    Cheers!

    Mike
    "near it, a small whale-boat, painted red and blue, the delight of the king's old age."

  32. #312
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    Default Re: An Ilur in R.I.

    Wow, I have not posted in a while. Winter's been keeping me from doing much on the boat. The other day though, I glued the CB case together and got it dry-fit into the hull. Right now, only one of the four bulkheads are glued in, so that's coming soon. Here are a few pictures of the case. In one, you can see the brass bushing and pin. The board is also peeking out on top.

    Warm weather soon, with any luck!

    Mike

    [IMG]IMG_131
    9
    by Michael Owen, on Flickr[/IMG]

    [IMG]IMG_1320 by Michael Owen, on Flickr[/IMG]

    [IMG]IMG_1321 by Michael Owen, on Flickr[/IMG]

    [IMG]IMG_1323 by Michael Owen, on Flickr[/IMG]
    "near it, a small whale-boat, painted red and blue, the delight of the king's old age."

  33. #313
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    Default Re: An Ilur in R.I.

    Well, today I glued the last bulkhead and the Cb case into the boat. I had managed to glue a couple of bulkheads in a few weeks ago.

    In order to keep from gluing the boat to the floor, I employed John Hartmann's patented "tape-wrapped foam plug." I sliced a piece of pink insulation foam and wrapped packing tape all around it. I stuck a couple of eye-screws in for retrieval, which was achieved with a coat hanger cut in two.

    Slathering the case logs with thixo epoxy...

    [IMG]IMG_1335
    by Michael Owen, on Flickr[/IMG]

    The plug in place...

    [IMG]IMG_1336 by Michael Owen, on Flickr[/IMG]

    The plug after retrieval...

    [IMG]IMG_1337 by Michael Owen, on Flickr[/IMG]

    An overall view.

    [IMG]IMG_1338 by Michael Owen, on Flickr[/IMG]

    Here are two of the CB case dry fit and some seat mock-up beginnings.

    [IMG]IMG_1331 by Michael Owen, on Flickr[/IMG]

    [IMG]IMG_1332 by Michael Owen, on Flickr[/IMG]

    I'm glad to have this part of the build behind me, but I believe I will need to do more after I flip the boat to complete the outside of the hull.
    I plan to rasp or router the slot on the keel to more perfectly match the CB case itself. Then I will epoxy a strip of 2" fiberglass tape at the joint. I'm positive that water would find a way in at this spot, in spite of gobs of epoxy filling the gaps. Someday I'll be a real wood worker and make perfect joints!

    Cheers,

    Mike
    "near it, a small whale-boat, painted red and blue, the delight of the king's old age."

  34. #314
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    Default Re: An Ilur in R.I.

    Looking good Mike! I had a very small leak at the forward end of the case, on the port side, the first season with An Suire. Definitely go for that extra bit of insurance when you turn it over. Ilurs are hefty boats and you won't want to turn them over often!

  35. #315
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    Default Re: An Ilur in R.I.

    looking nice Mike! good progress on that centerboard trunk.

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