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Thread: An Ilur in R.I.

  1. #71
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    Default Re: An Ilur in R.I.

    Hi, Tim--
    Yes, that sail is lovely, and looks plenty happy without the whisker. The nieces look plenty happy, too, for that matter. Good for you to get 'em started early! I'll send you an email avout the punt to avoid thread drift.....
    Here is a pic of Waxwing, sailing dead down wind, wing on wing, with sprit boom:



    I generally slacken the tack downhaul for downwind work to let the sail be as full as possible....looking at this, I spy a hint of a wrinkle from throat to clew which suggests I should have a touch of downhaul more.....
    Mike, even with the sprit boom, sheeting angles are critical to good performance, and I am pretty sure that my thumb cleats are positioned ahead of the ones Tim has on An Suire, because the foot of my sail is about a foot shorter than his Misainer.....when you get around to deciding on the rig, I can get you specific measurements if you go for the yawl and shorter footed main.
    cheers,
    J

  2. #72
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    Default Re: An Ilur in R.I.

    Thanks you guys. Did both of you use Oceanus sail cloth? I like the way this stuff looks.

    Meanwhile, we poured bronze this past Tuesday night. I'm trying to make a mast gate similar to the one John used on Waxwing and a small jam cleat or two and maybe some bow -eyes.

    First the crucible coming out of the furnace:

    [IMG]crucible by Michael Owen, on Flickr[/IMG]


    Then, pouring into the ceramic shells:
    [IMG]pouring by Michael Owen, on Flickr[/IMG]


    I love the colors as the bronze cools down from around 2000 degrees F.
    [IMG]cooling colors by Michael Owen, on



    Some folks took their pieces out to the snow to cool faster and break away the shell:
    [IMG]snow cool by Michael Owen, on Flickr[/IMG]


    Mast gate and jam cleat just out of the shell:
    [IMG]

    Beginning clean-up:
    [IMG]gate+cleat by Michael Owen, on Flickr[/IMG]
    "near it, a small whale-boat, painted red and blue, the delight of the king's old age."

  3. #73
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    Default Re: An Ilur in R.I.

    2000 F !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Foook

    New respect for anyone who goes near that bronze casting. I'll stick to lead, thats hot enough for me.

  4. #74
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    Default Re: An Ilur in R.I.

    wow. incredible.

  5. #75
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    Default Re: An Ilur in R.I.

    A few minutes of Roger Barnes camping in his Ilur: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ivg6ZsTPl6I A well-used boat!

  6. #76
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    Default Re: An Ilur in R.I.

    And a lively discussion of to-boom-or-not-to-boom on a UK boat site: http://uk-hbbr-forum.967333.n3.nabbl...td4028916.html

  7. #77
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    Default Re: An Ilur in R.I.

    Mike, it looks like the casting was a great success, congratulations! Thanks for sharing the pictures of the pour. I 'm looking forward to seeing how you go about the rest of the fabrication process, and to seeing the finished piece. Will you be turning the hinge pins yourself, or have a metal shop do it?
    Waxwing's sails are Bainbridge Classic Cream, 6oz.

  8. #78
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    Default Re: An Ilur in R.I.

    My sail cloth is Haywards Clipper Canvas.

  9. #79
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    Default Re: An Ilur in R.I.

    I think you folks are misunderstanding the nature of the whisker pole. Don't think of it as a wimpy boom. Think of it more like an oar that you never need to pull!

    There have been many slow summer afternoons when I was drifting home on a dying breeze on my Drascombe. Poling out the loose footed main saved me from having to row, or worse, crank up the outboard. While running on a zephyr, a pole can make the difference between steerage way and just tossing on the ocean swell.

    I've also spent a great many hours on sailboats with headsails poled out (jib, jenny, reacher-drifter). These were cruising boats and daysailers of all kinds. If the sailing ever got slow when running, I always went forward and fixed up a pole, and we went a little faster.

    To get back to the misainer, its not so very different in shape than a genoa jib. So, I'm excited to try out the pole on my forthcoming Ilur. It will be something to play with, something to fuss with the sail trim, and something that I expect will give me an extra knot when I need it most.

  10. #80
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    Default Re: An Ilur in R.I.

    You'll never have row downwind in an Ilur, such is the sail area of the Misanier. The lightness of the hull compared to a Drascombe means as long as it is off the wind she'll move. I heal the boat to leeward to fill the sail in such conditions. It simultaneously reduces wetted area so it is a win - win! As for the whisker pole, I have been planning to put a boat hook head on one end. It would then be dual purpose and the single point on top would be easier to slot into the clew. I keep the oars on top of the floorboards along side the centreboard, as the quicker they are accessed the better. I have them toggled now to hold them in place, so I might bring the whisker pole out this year as it would be kept tidy. The oars secured in the centre of the floorboards make a great foot rest when the boat is healing too.

  11. #81
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    Default Re: An Ilur in R.I.

    Exciting News: Gardner Pickering from Hewes & Co informed me that my kit has been cut and is ready to be shipped. Based on some comments by John Hartman, I am now thinking that I'll take receipt at a warehouse and then arrange to have it transferred onto a borrowed pickup truck for more leisurely unloading. With an LTL common carrier I'd have to unload whenever they arrive (come rain or shine) and if I transfer via the warehouse I'll be in control of when exactly the delivery to my garage takes place.

    As I am thinking about the lug-sloop rig (the version of Ilur I am planning to build) and read comments about the desired added ballast I suspect that I want to make plans for that right from the get go. After all, the lug-sloop rig as 14.2 sq.m of canvas (153 sq.ft) as compared to 12.4 sq.m. for the misainer and yawl rigs. So how are these "pigs" secured? Are they just laying under the floor boards or is there some provision to block and/or lock them into place?

    The other thing that seems clear is that a very efficient jiffy reefing system is essential and a small furler on the jib might be a good idea. I like the system I saw described by Eddie Breeden on his blog which I have been following about a fabulous Sooty Tern build names UNA - featured in Dec 2014 issue of Small Boat Monthly.

    Falcon1 - not quite sure about the forum protocol - in regard to comments / questions that might not pertain directly to your build. I am impressed with your bronze work and have concluded that this is not a task for me. Alas, I still would love to utilize this type of gate when the time comes.

  12. #82
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    Default Re: An Ilur in R.I.

    Congrats cmosheh, that's exciting! Good idea about the warehouse delivery, especially this time of year.

    My 2, as soon as the kit arrives fire up a build thread and start posting pics! It's common to ask questions on other's threads though and the cross pollination is really helpful for us following along.

    As for your ballast question, I'd hold off on making any permanent plans until you get her out and see what you need in terms of weight and location to get the trim right.

    Mike

  13. #83
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    Default Re: An Ilur in R.I.

    Great news that your kit is ready! We will definitely all love to see a build thread as soon as you're ready (if you decide to do one.)
    In the meantime, I'm happy and flattered to have discussions on this thread about all things Ilur/Beg Meil.

    I'm pretty pleased about the bronzes for a first-timer. It could have gone much worse. For those interested, here are some photos showing the issues
    with the pieces. (John H., I thought I sent a lengthy reply to your PM, but now I don't see it, whoops!)

    The patterns and the pieces.
    [IMG]gatecleat by Michael Owen, on

    [IMG]gatemag by Michael Owen, on Flickr[/IMG]

    Some areas of shrinkage, which can happen when the bronze is too thick, and, during the cooling process, tears away from itself, leaving shallow, rough holes.

    [IMG]gate1 by Michael Owen, on Flickr[/IMG]

    A small hole, perhaps made by an air bubble. Hopefully, I'll be able to weld a drop or two of bronze on there and grind it back as a repair.

    [IMG]shrink by Michael Owen, on Flickr[/IMG]

    A nice view of the gate at this stage.

    [IMG]gategood b
    y Michael Owen, on Flickr[/IMG]

    In other news, I cut out another mold this AM. Only two more to go. When it warms up a bit, I'll get the Whilly boat out of the garage and onto her trailer, ready for sailing. Then I'll have room to construct a building jig for the Ilur.

    Cheers!

    Mike
    "near it, a small whale-boat, painted red and blue, the delight of the king's old age."

  14. #84
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    Default Re: An Ilur in R.I.

    Wow, those pictures really show the art of bronze casting.
    Are you by any chance planning to go into the bronze casting business?

    So, very well, I will start a thread on the Ilur in PA as soon as the kit arrives.
    Interestingly there is someone not too far from my house in Pittsburgh who also ordered and is already in possession of an Ilur kit.
    He contacted me and just has not gotten around to get started.

    In the meantime I will continue to enjoy this thread and continue to study John Hartman's thread - lest I be repetitive or redundant.
    Cheers!
    Chris

  15. #85
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    Default Re: An Ilur in R.I.

    Quote Originally Posted by timcooke View Post
    My sail cloth is Haywards Clipper Canvas.
    Tim, if I describe it, can you say if this sounds like your cloth...reason is dad bought an unsold tan Whilly Boat sail from James Lawrence, and it's of a different feel and frankly 'niceness' to touch compared to other dinghy sails we've bought. It has an exceptionally smooth feel and a dense weave to it. It feels quite 'solid' and 'old school' although it isn't. Sail weight is maybe higher than 6oz perhaps 9-10 oz. Which is the lightest it goes down to, which increases weight aloft, perhaps the only downside. We've wondered what it is, as we like it alot. It doesn't crinkle/ crackle like Dacron weave filler does. Looking at Haywards site, they describe it being unique in that it's woven from 'spun polyester' rather than monofilaments on a typical Dacron sail, that gives it a softer handle. I was going to try and get the same material as this Whilly Boat sail from JL again, but I didn't want to bother them until ready. I had wondered if it was Duradon, but I think it must be Clipper Canvas...sound like yours? Rolled up, reefed, do you think a heavier weight cloth helps stiffen the foot a bit off the wind on a Misainier?
    Last edited by Edward Pearson; 02-15-2016 at 05:00 AM.

  16. #86
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    Default Re: An Ilur in R.I.

    Quote Originally Posted by andrewpatrol View Post
    2000 F !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Foook

    New respect for anyone who goes near that bronze casting. I'll stick to lead, thats hot enough for me.
    I'll show you over my set up if you get up this way Andrew, mine is all greensand but for this kind of work that is just fine.

    It's great to see investment done though.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  17. #87
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    Default Re: An Ilur in R.I.

    Quote Originally Posted by Falcon1 View Post
    Great news that your kit is ready! We will definitely all love to see a build thread as soon as you're ready (if you decide to do one.)
    In the meantime, I'm happy and flattered to have discussions on this thread about all things Ilur/Beg Meil.

    I'm pretty pleased about the bronzes for a first-timer. It could have gone much worse. For those interested, here are some photos showing the issues
    with the pieces. (John H., I thought I sent a lengthy reply to your PM, but now I don't see it, whoops!)

    The patterns and the pieces.
    [IMG]gatecleat by Michael Owen, on

    [IMG]gatemag by Michael Owen, on Flickr[/IMG]

    Some areas of shrinkage, which can happen when the bronze is too thick, and, during the cooling process, tears away from itself, leaving shallow, rough holes.

    [IMG]gate1 by Michael Owen, on Flickr[/IMG]

    A small hole, perhaps made by an air bubble. Hopefully, I'll be able to weld a drop or two of bronze on there and grind it back as a repair.

    [IMG]shrink by Michael Owen, on Flickr[/IMG]

    A nice view of the gate at this stage.

    [IMG]gategood b
    y Michael Owen, on Flickr[/IMG]

    In other news, I cut out another mold this AM. Only two more to go. When it warms up a bit, I'll get the Whilly boat out of the garage and onto her trailer, ready for sailing. Then I'll have room to construct a building jig for the Ilur.

    Cheers!

    Mike
    If you know anyone with TIG they can melt in a bit of scrap for you but I'd drill it clean first. Probably use a brazing flux. It could be air or insufficient feeding as the thinner section cooled.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  18. #88
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    Default Re: An Ilur in R.I.

    Lovely to see this great work. Making the fittings is a very beautiful addition to the whole experience. I agree with Peter, that could be filled.
    (and I'm hanging out to see some more progress from Peter on his boat by the way)


    middlething.blogspot.com

  19. #89
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    Default Re: An Ilur in R.I.

    Check it out.https://www.facebook.com/michael.owe...7525182961413/

    Last night's bronze pour!
    "near it, a small whale-boat, painted red and blue, the delight of the king's old age."

  20. #90
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    Default Re: An Ilur in R.I.

    Quote Originally Posted by Edward Pearson View Post
    Tim, if I describe it, can you say if this sounds like your cloth...reason is dad bought an unsold tan Whilly Boat sail from James Lawrence, and it's of a different feel and frankly 'niceness' to touch compared to other dinghy sails we've bought. It has an exceptionally smooth feel and a dense weave to it. It feels quite 'solid' and 'old school' although it isn't. Sail weight is maybe higher than 6oz perhaps 9-10 oz. Which is the lightest it goes down to, which increases weight aloft, perhaps the only downside. We've wondered what it is, as we like it alot. It doesn't crinkle/ crackle like Dacron weave filler does. Looking at Haywards site, they describe it being unique in that it's woven from 'spun polyester' rather than monofilaments on a typical Dacron sail, that gives it a softer handle. I was going to try and get the same material as this Whilly Boat sail from JL again, but I didn't want to bother them until ready. I had wondered if it was Duradon, but I think it must be Clipper Canvas...sound like yours? Rolled up, reefed, do you think a heavier weight cloth helps stiffen the foot a bit off the wind on a Misainier?
    Sounds more or less like mine. The smoothness is throwing me a bit though. It has a rough canvas like texture. Apart from that, your description sounds very like my sail. Mine was made by Patrick Selman of Gaff sails. He has made all the clipper canvass sails of the local traditional boats. According to him, it was he who suggested to Hayward's that they should make clipper canvas, as he found Duradon so stretchy. Looking back at my e-mails to him, he says that the first set of clipper canvas sails he made were for the local Mackerel Boat, An Run. That is a pic of her below.


  21. #91
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    Default Re: An Ilur in R.I.

    All nine station molds finished. I hate plywood. So many little scraps going to the landfill. But...it's done.
    I still have to cut out two small pieces that will mount fore n aft to station one, setting the angle of the transom.

    [IMG]9 molds by Michael Owen, on Flickr[/IMG]

    Mast gate drilled and a scrap of 5/16 rod put through. Still thinking about bolts or pins or what for holding it in place.
    The little jam cleat came out ok. Same with the bow-eye, which I've just started cleaning up. That guy will get drilled and tapped for a bronze rod that I'll thread the ends of.

    [IMG]bronze by Michael Owen, on Flickr[/IMG]

    [IMG]bow

    I'll probably take the bronze casting class again next winter. I'll focus on getting the waxes made better to save work. Suggestions for fittings to make are welcome! I saw a pattern for a nice mast-head fitting a few weeks ago.

    Onward!

    Mike
    "near it, a small whale-boat, painted red and blue, the delight of the king's old age."

  22. #92

    Default Re: An Ilur in R.I.

    Great stuff on this thread so far and I am sure it will be a great boat when done. Makes it all the harder that I will not be building an ilur for the forseeable future. Life changes quick is all I will say. I now have a kit sitting in my basement not even unbanded yet that I will not be using. For the next decade at least. I guess there always is ebay or an in need forumite... Good luck and I look forward to your progress.

  23. #93
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    Default Re: An Ilur in R.I.

    The other night I cut out the two triangle-shaped pieces of plywood that dictate the transom angle. Tonight, i was puttering a bit and wanted to see if I could see that angle in real life. So i precariously balanced and clamped stations one and two upright. Balanced transom on a c-clamp, and threw a couple of battens on to represent the keel and sheer.

    [IMG]test2 by Michael Owen, on Flickr[/IMG]

    [IMG]test1 by Michael Owen, on Flickr[/IMG]

    Lovely to get my first taste of her actual shape and volume. Cheers!

    Mike
    "near it, a small whale-boat, painted red and blue, the delight of the king's old age."

  24. #94
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    Default Re: An Ilur in R.I.

    Never too early to start imagining.

  25. #95
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    Default Re: An Ilur in R.I.

    Nice transom. Is it Sapele?

  26. #96
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    Default Re: An Ilur in R.I.

    Worked a bit last night and tonight on the building frame. Hope to finish it tomorrow. Then it will be tempting to set up molds, but I wonder if this is the best place to scarph my planking plywood. It's level, and two 4x8 sheets will fit. Thoughts?

    [IMG]bldg. frame by Michael Owen, on Flickr[/IMG]
    "near it, a small whale-boat, painted red and blue, the delight of the king's old age."

  27. #97
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    Default Re: An Ilur in R.I.

    The strongback is in a place already dedicated to be christened by inevitable epoxy drips.....and it will likely be hard to find another space that large to glue up the scarphs....if you set up the stations molds now, do you even have another space adequate to do the scarphing job?

  28. #98
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    Default Re: An Ilur in R.I.

    I love your bronze casting, everything looks great!

  29. #99
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    Default Re: An Ilur in R.I.

    I used my strongback for scarfing ply for the bottom - I had to! It was the only flat area that size that I had (except for the living room floor, and that wasn't gonna happen). In fact, when I put in the bulkheads I missed having that big flat workspace (my garage looks a lot like yours). I built another frame similar to the strongback so I would have a relatively flat place to work on large pieces.

    How about this weather? I'll be working outside on the seats this weekend - about two months earlier than I thought!

  30. #100
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    Default Re: An Ilur in R.I.

    Thanks for the replies. I guess I've got to bite the bullet and buy my plywood. Strongback is complete, and it does seem like the best place to scarph sheets together. Of course, I'll then have four HUMONGOUS sheets of plywood hanging around.

    Good motivation to cut out planks, I guess! Anybody tried the "sheets of insulation foam underneath" method of cutting ply with a circular saw? I may give it a go.

    Cheers,

    Mike
    "near it, a small whale-boat, painted red and blue, the delight of the king's old age."

  31. #101
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    Default Re: An Ilur in R.I.

    Quote Originally Posted by Falcon1 View Post
    Thanks for the replies. I guess I've got to bite the bullet and buy my plywood. Strongback is complete, and it does seem like the best place to scarph sheets together. Of course, I'll then have four HUMONGOUS sheets of plywood hanging around.

    Good motivation to cut out planks, I guess! Anybody tried the "sheets of insulation foam underneath" method of cutting ply with a circular saw? I may give it a go.

    Cheers,

    Mike
    Yes, I used that technique to cut my 6 mm okoume ply sheets into planking stock. It works very well as there is nowhere for the plank to go (ie fall) after the cut is done. I used one of the other sheets of ply as a straightedge guide for the baseplate of the circular saw to ride against. I set up so that the foam was slightly shorter than the length of the ply, allowing the ends of the ply being cut and the "guide" ply to be clamped together with a spring clamp.
    Last edited by RowAndSail; 03-13-2016 at 01:41 PM.

  32. #102
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    Default Re: An Ilur in R.I.

    Quote Originally Posted by Falcon1 View Post
    Thanks for the replies. I guess I've got to bite the bullet and buy my plywood. Strongback is complete, and it does seem like the best place to scarph sheets together. Of course, I'll then have four HUMONGOUS sheets of plywood hanging around.

    Good motivation to cut out planks, I guess! Anybody tried the "sheets of insulation foam underneath" method of cutting ply with a circular saw? I may give it a go.

    Cheers,

    Mike
    Hi Mike, another way you could cut your ply is to screw some scrap 4' cross spalls across your strong back for about 7'. Then put your sheet on there. Raises it up a bit too.
    A

  33. #103
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    Default Re: An Ilur in R.I.

    Drove up to Somerville MA this morning and picked up 10 sheets of 9mm okume. My bank account is now back down to $0.00.

    I'm pretty glad to have gotten this accomplished, though. I'm nervous driving in and around Boston, esp. with a trailer full of expensive wood! Minuteman, this is why I didn't try to combine the two trips. Perhaps another time?

    Now, today is my son's eleventh b-day, so it's off to Lazertag, followed by pizza and brownies. Good times.

    [IMG]okume by Michael Owen, on Flickr[/IMG]

    [IMG]okumestamp by Michael Owen, on Flickr[/IMG]
    "near it, a small whale-boat, painted red and blue, the delight of the king's old age."

  34. #104
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    Default Re: An Ilur in R.I.

    Can't stop building boats huh!!!!

    Swift was nice and now you're building a second one.!!!

    That's good.

    Good luck and good work.
    ''The work is teaching you the work'' : Bernard Moitessier.

    Single-handed Sailor, 1968-1969 Golden Globe Challenge, 1st around the world sailing race.

  35. #105
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    Default Re: An Ilur in R.I.

    Slightly off topic but kinda sorta related... is that a Corolla you are towing with? I have a friend who has the same car, he's been thinking of putting a hitch on it, mainly to carry around light loads on a small utility trailer. The manual states 1500 lbs and 150 lbs tongue weight, which is really good for any car. I have an Altima and it's only 1000/100. It's plenty for my P14 in any case. What's your real world experience been with it? Auto or manual?

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