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Thread: An Ilur in R.I.

  1. #36
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    Default Re: An Ilur in R.I.

    Hello Falcon,
    A beautiful boat!
    And when it comes to the use of metric measures: For me the 'problem' was vise versa
    I bought the plans from Paul Gartside. As he made the design for a USA customer, It was in feet and inches... In the Netherlands the use of feet is nearly extinguished
    Paul advised me not to translate the measures, but to buy suitable measuring instruments. To translate would lead to mistakes. The same would apply to the translation ti inches from cm. Success with the build.

    And may be it will end up as some of the others write. The metric system is quit handy when getting acquainted

    Regards, Christiaan

  2. #37
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    Default Re: An Ilur in R.I.

    Cutting the 45s before or after planing down: I cut mine after to guage blade height. I can see that it wouldn't matter going the other direction. I make both butt and tip solid, with a spruce insert, so it is probably not as critical as it might sound in this description...
    Re-naming straits as necessary.

  3. #38
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    Default Re: An Ilur in R.I.

    Boat work this AM. Lots of information has been transferred from the plans to the stem. Transom knee parts ready for glue, pattern is nearby. Glue-up. Then a pattern/model for a mast gate to be cast in bronze later this winter.

    After that I drove up to the lumber yard an hour north and purchased the rest of the wood for the backbone-transom, keel, false stem.
    This wood stuff is pretty dear!

    Cheers!

    Mike
    P.S. Those circles on the mast gate pattern are just roughly sized and placed. They'll be carefully drilled if this thing comes out OK.









    "near it, a small whale-boat, painted red and blue, the delight of the king's old age."

  4. #39
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    Default Re: An Ilur in R.I.

    Nice progress, I a going to enjoy building an Ilur vicariously!
    Steamboat

    I get by with the judicious use of serendipity.

  5. #40
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    Default Re: An Ilur in R.I.

    Falcon. Been following this thread with interest, also followed you Whilly Boat build. Very nice work. Where is your lumber yard 1hr north. I am in Foxboro, and have been going to Yard in Danielson Ct

    Rick

  6. #41
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    Default Re: An Ilur in R.I.

    Hi Rick,

    You're so close, you could hit it with a rock. It's Downes and Reader, in Stoughton. They are very nice folks and have a selection of hard and soft woods that is HUGE!

    What is the name of the place in Danielson? I think it might be the one I'm planning to buy my marine ply from. D+R has marine ply, but it's limited.

    Are you building a boat?

    Cheers,

    Mike
    "near it, a small whale-boat, painted red and blue, the delight of the king's old age."

  7. #42
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    Default Re: An Ilur in R.I.

    A big stack of Sapele strips to laminate the outer stem. Used the bandsaw for ripping strips with a new 1/2" blade. Worked a treat! Cleaned-up sternpost in background.

    "near it, a small whale-boat, painted red and blue, the delight of the king's old age."

  8. #43
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    Default Re: An Ilur in R.I.

    Thanks for the lead will check them out. Not a new build but a very slow rebuild. Check out Project Boat Rick E. This is something I have always wanted to do. And i am making more than my share of mistakes, but i am enjoying the process My other issue is that job and family considerations seem to keep taking priority. All part of the fun. Along with trying to get a proper building space built. In the mean time I keep following a bunch of threads on this forum to keep my enthusiasm up. Check out J. Gibson McIlvain 127 Rock Ave Danielson CT www.mcilvain

  9. #44
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    Default Re: An Ilur in R.I.

    Transom pattern cut out of scrap ply.

    "near it, a small whale-boat, painted red and blue, the delight of the king's old age."

  10. #45
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    Default Re: An Ilur in R.I.

    I think you need to have your son bring his plans in to city hall for a building permit. Nice job on the new build. Very ambitious just having finished the other.

  11. #46
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    Default Re: An Ilur in R.I.

    Some work on the transom this weekend. Prepped for glue-up. The glue and clamps work their magic. The transom blank. Roughly cut out, with clamps gluing back on a piece that I didn't mean to cut off. Not a part of the finished boat, though!









    P.S. This is NOT going to be a bright finish, hence the hodge-podge of grain and color. It'll be getting paint!
    "near it, a small whale-boat, painted red and blue, the delight of the king's old age."

  12. #47
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    Default Re: An Ilur in R.I.

    Got a new computer finally. Seeing if I can use Flickr again.

    [IMG]solosail3 by Michael Owen, on Flickr[/IMG]
    "near it, a small whale-boat, painted red and blue, the delight of the king's old age."

  13. #48
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    Default Re: An Ilur in R.I.

    Well, I've got the stem, transom, and transom knee made, and want to start cutting out station molds. The full-size patterns that I got have patterns for four of the nine stations. These have joggled edges like in the first photo.

    [IMG]sheet by Michael Owen, on Flickr[/IMG]

    I have dimensions for ALL the station molds in the plans. I made the smallest one yesterday. I could just make them all this way, but they come out with smooth edges like this:

    [IMG]mold C9 by Michael Owen, on Flickr[/IMG]

    I think they should all be the same, and I wrote to F.V. asking if I was missing a sheet of full-sized patterns, but he said no, I have them all. Any Vivier builders out there have any advice before I have to pester him again. Timcooke, if you are reading this, I sent you a PM. I saw from your blog that all your molds were "joggled."

    Thanks,

    Mike
    "near it, a small whale-boat, painted red and blue, the delight of the king's old age."

  14. #49
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    Default Re: An Ilur in R.I.

    Just e-mailed you there. All the station patterns fore and aft are on one long sheet.

  15. #50
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    Default Re: An Ilur in R.I.

    Thanks, Tim. Just got in touch with F.V., and he said I AM missing the fore patterns. He's sending them tomorrow.
    "near it, a small whale-boat, painted red and blue, the delight of the king's old age."

  16. #51
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    Default Re: An Ilur in R.I.

    So, getting a little work done while I wait for the rest of the full-sized patterns to arrive.

    I laminated strips around the stem to create the "false stem" to be attached after planking. This was the most strips I have ever glued up. I did it in three sessions. Epoxy is so messy and creates so much waste. But this method ensures a good fit later, since i used the stem as a form.

    Then I cut to the top of the transom, and did the bevel in the little notch for the keel. I'll continue beveling all along the transom to accept planking this week.
    I'll leave it a tiny bit shy to be adjusted during the actual planking process.

    Hopefully cutting out molds in the coming weeks.

    [IMG]false stem by Michael Owen, on Flickr[/IMG]

    [IMG]tsom by Michael Owen, on Flickr[/IMG]
    "near it, a small whale-boat, painted red and blue, the delight of the king's old age."

  17. #52
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    Default Re: An Ilur in R.I.

    Subscribed to this thread and will follow with great interest as I will soon also be busy building an Ilur - albeit in Pennsylvania. I expect to get underway in late March. The kit has been ordered and Hewes & Co will cut it (as John Hartman's). I plan to build the lug sloop version. I understand that there are currently three Ilurs in progress. So with those plus John Hartman's mine would be #5 (in the US)... almost enough for a regular regatta. I am brushing up on my French and studying the manual
    ~~_/)~~~
    Cheers
    Last edited by cmosheh; 02-01-2016 at 10:00 PM.

  18. #53
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    Default Re: An Ilur in R.I.

    Hi cmosheh. Great news! The more Ilurs, the merrier! Can't wait to follow your progress.

    I haven't been posting much lately, since I 'm taking a bronze casting class on Tuesday nights, and it's all new to me, demanding full attention.
    It's six classes long. First class was just intro and playing with wax. Second was plaster molds. Third was flexible molds. Fourth we refined our waxes, gated and vented them, and began dipping them in ceramic slurry. This Tues. is the big night. Pouring molten bronze!

    Here are three patterns, three waxes of the mast gate, and four station molds, which I've been picking away at. Also, a snowman was pressed yesterday, since we are short of crew.

    Cheers!

    Mike

    [IMG]patterns by Michael Owen, on Flickr[/IMG]

    [IMG]waxes by Michael Owen, on Flickr[/IMG]

    [IMG]moldz by Michael Owen, on Flickr[/IMG]

    [IMG]snowman by Michael Owen, on Flickr[/IMG]
    "near it, a small whale-boat, painted red and blue, the delight of the king's old age."

  19. #54
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    Default Re: An Ilur in R.I.

    That class sounds like a blast! Wooden Boat School has one this year but I can't make the schedule work so I'll vicariously enjoy the process here. Good luck Tuesday!

    Mike
    Last edited by Mike J; 02-07-2016 at 07:56 PM. Reason: Spelling

  20. #55
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    Default Re: An Ilur in R.I.

    Quote Originally Posted by Falcon1 View Post
    Hi cmosheh. Great news! The more Ilurs, the merrier! Can't wait to follow your progress.

    I haven't been posting much lately, since I 'm taking a bronze casting class on Tuesday nights, and it's all new to me, demanding full attention.
    It's six classes long. First class was just intro and playing with wax. Second was plaster molds. Third was flexible molds. Fourth we refined our waxes, gated and vented them, and began dipping them in ceramic slurry. This Tues. is the big night. Pouring molten bronze!

    Here are three patterns, three waxes of the mast gate, and four station molds, which I've been picking away at. Also, a snowman was pressed yesterday, since we are short of crew.

    Cheers!

    Mike

    [IMG]patterns by Michael Owen, on Flickr[/IMG]
    Is that a small jam cleat? Its beautiful. Do you have a use in mind for it?

    BTW, I'm having an Ilur built by Geoff Kerr. Maybe that's the rumored third boat. Mine will have the loose footed misainer rig.

  21. #56
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    Default Re: An Ilur in R.I.

    Very, cool Mike. Maaaaybe I'll look into learning this as well. Please keep the documentary work going.... Best,

    Greg

  22. #57
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    Default Re: An Ilur in R.I.

    Wonderful Pics!
    Yeah, I really loved John Hartman's mast gate solution and by the looks of it you seem to get into the thick of it. I am not sure yet if that gate will work for the lug-sloop setup. It should and if so I will definitely want one.

    I am planning to give all components the epoxy treatment before any assembly. I think that's what F. Vivier recommends. It certainly makes sense to me and should be much easier to do while everything is laying out flat... especially the inside of the planks. And that is how Chesapeake Light Craft directs their builders - as I did when building a Passagemaker Dinghy (now sold). If any of the assembled experts has a different view, I certainly would like to know.

    I've never been to the Wooden Boat School but would love to go someday. In the meantime, Geoff Kerr's video series on glued lapstrake construction (Off Center Harbor) and John Hartman's superb thread all lead me to hope that I can build an Ilur without attending the course. Vivier's ingenious kit design will save oodles of hours for someone who has never done a glued lapstrake construction before.

    Just heard from another Ilur builder right in my neck of the woods.
    He already has the kit but has not yet commenced the build. It'll be fun to compare notes.

    There is much to be said for the excited anticipation of building a boat!
    Cheers.

  23. #58
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    Default Re: An Ilur in R.I.

    Snow day today. I'll cut out another mold or two.

    Photocurio, it is a jam cleat. Found in a marine consignment shop here in RI. I had to have it! It is currently mounted on my DB case port side, where it handles the end of my downhaul.



    Geoff Kerr's OCH tutorial on glued-lap building was VERY helpful to me while building my Oughtred Whilly Boat. Is he building from a kit? I love the misainier rig. It's what Vivier shows as the mainsail for the lug yawl. I'm not sure I'll use it though. Mr. Hartmann's fully battened balance lug main is very elegant.

    Hopefully class will still be held tomorrow. I still need to dip my pieces into the ceramic slurry twice more before we pour.
    Go away snow!

    Looking forward to following lots of Ilur builds.

    Mike
    "near it, a small whale-boat, painted red and blue, the delight of the king's old age."

  24. #59
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    Default Re: An Ilur in R.I.

    You can count me in too. I'm just waiting on finishing my house redecoration before starting my own Ilur later this year (An Ilur in the Solent). It'll be the clever kit from Jordan, as I just want the boat this time, in the water as fast as possible and my back won't take alot of bending over any more. Misainer I think, as I just want to try it for the simplicity, though John's rig is probably the best rig, then go over to do the Brittany Golfe Du Morbihan with it.

  25. #60
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    Default Re: An Ilur in R.I.

    Quote Originally Posted by Edward Pearson View Post
    ..Misainer I think, as I just want to try it for the simplicity, though John's rig is probably the best rig, then go over to do the Brittany Golfe Du Morbihan with it.
    My thought exactly. Simplicity is the key. I wanted the simplest possible sailboat, that could go to sea.

  26. #61
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    Default Re: An Ilur in R.I.

    An Ilur in California is a-building as well, from plans. Nothing good to show yet. I change my mind weekly about the rig. I do want to decide before too long though, as I would like to make the sail earlier than later - the hull will be done last.

  27. #62
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    Default Re: An Ilur in R.I.

    I'm happy to hear of so many Ilurs in build; though my own bias is pretty obvious, it is good to see an excellent and elegant design well received. While it's a subject that has been discussed elsewhere in the forums at considerable length, I thought I would chime in as long as the rig is much on the builder's minds....the misainer is certainly the simplest of Vivier's options, and given the places and conditions it has been put to use by folks like Roger Barnes and Tim Cook, it is both powerful as well as manageble in as broad a range of conditions as I'd care to be out in. My own thinking, which led to the fully battened and sprit boomed sail was influenced from a couple of directions--on one hand, I had sailed in company with Ben Fuller's RanTan , and was struck by what a lovely and efficient sail that boat has.....also, the misainer requires a whisker pole for down wind work, and I was not enthusiastic about having such a long bit of kit kicking around in the cockpit the rest of the time, or having to fish it out of the stowage area below the floorboards if the boat was loaded with a week's worth of dunnage. The sprit boom keeps the pole overhead and in use on all points of sail, and if deployed properly with a good snotter arrangement, is self vanging downwind, and provides reasonable outhaul function for reaching and upwind work. The only downside I've found to the sprit boom is that it adds a bit of extra fiddling to the reefing drill. With regard to the full battens, I like very much that the sail does not flap or flog while hove to....the other side of that coin is that a fully battened sail doesn't take long to make up it's mind when changing points of sail, and powers up very swiftly......something to be aware of particularly while jibing...As far as the yawl is concerned, it is priceless to be able to heave to, drop the tiller, and move forward to single handedly tie in a reef in open water....



    This was taken last October, during the last Hurricane of the season....a F6 day, northern Lake Champlain.....hove to several times this day, either to reef myself, or to sit along while my friends reefed....heaving to with the mizzen is just a very comfortable and uneventful affair....lying to in conditions like that with the misainer would likely involve a lot more rolling, as the boat would be lying more quartered to the wind and seas, with the sail over the leeward quarter.....
    Getting back to Mike's thread, nice looking work on the molds--please be sure to take plenty of photos of your casting day to share with us!
    Cheerio,
    J
    Last edited by John hartmann; 02-09-2016 at 07:08 AM. Reason: Spelling, clarity

  28. #63
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    Default Re: An Ilur in R.I.

    Doe anyone know what their spruce/ fir Ilur yard weighs in Kg?

    Probably best with wood, and it has to bend right for the sail shape, but......mulling over if there was a carbon yard option, to lower weight aloft and all that, I see that North Sails do a Black Label mast range with a range of bend properties for owners with other makes of sail that are cut for a different bend.

    Of interest to an Ilur lug sailer, they do one with a 'Progressive Flex Top' spar bend curve which when used for the yard would bend to open the leach in a gust to auto depower, and remain stiffest at the luff and halyard attachment where you want it for pointing with a lug. It also comes in reduced diameter/ thicker walled (RDM) which reduces turbulence over the sail, which gets important further up where the chord is shorter: the latest windsurfer tech. Anyhow the top 100% carbon one comes in at 1.7 kg for 4m and 250, the ones with a bit more Grp (60% carbon) weigh only 300 grams more, but are cheaper at about 150. Lengths available are 3.7m, 4m and 4.3m (can't remember the yard length but do remember that these are about right - dad'd currently got my planset).



    More than Spruce but not massively so considering other costs. Thought I'd just share the details while talking rigs. All the 12ft lymington river scows use carbon yards, in their case just cut off windsurf masts on their 7sqm lug sails. With a mast in hand you could march into the sailmakers and they would be able to make the sail to match it's bend curve within reason. If it paid off, there could be advantages with reduced weight as well as reduced turbulence.

    https://www.north-windsurf.com/eng/n...cklabel-series

    If you scroll down and click on tech sheet the weights come up.

    BLACKLABEL SERIES

    BLACKLABEL RDM
    Length (cm) IMCS Carbon (%) < > Weight (kg) Carbon Fiber Quality
    370 17 BL 100% Carbon: 1.60 || BL 75% Carbon: 1.70 || BL 60% Carbon: 1.90 T600
    400 19 BL 100% Carbon: 1.70 || BL 75% Carbon: 1.80 || BL 60% Carbon: 2.00 T600
    430 21 BL 100% Carbon: 1.90 || BL 75% Carbon: 2.10 || BL 60% Carbon: 2.20 T600
    Last edited by Edward Pearson; 02-09-2016 at 07:48 AM.

  29. #64
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    Default Re: An Ilur in R.I.

    Ed, looking back through my build notes, my bird's mouth yard of larch weighs 4 kg. Bending tests with 40 # (18.2kg) gave 3/8" of deflection with the weight supended 75% of the length toward the tip, 1/2" deflection with the weight at mid spar, and 1/4" of bend with the weight 25% of the way from the butt.....on the stiff side. If I were to build another of wood, I would consider designing in a smidgen more flex toward the tip, but it works well for me in the conditions I typically sail in. In this image, sailing in moderate breeze, you can just see a hint of bend in the top third or so of the yard, and the sail shape is pretty clean. Just above the throat of the sail is the luff extending roband which transfers luff tension to the yard, and away from the head of the sail....a generous tip from Keyhavenpotterer which made a big difference in tidy deployment of a lugsail....



    I think the weight saved aloft with those carbon yards would make the boat feel noticeably stiffer, and would give you the flexibility to carry little or no additional ballast much of the time. In the photo in post #62, I had 50#(22.7 kg) of lead alongside the CB below the floorboards.

  30. #65
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    Default Re: An Ilur in R.I.

    Nice shots, John!

    I'm sure Ilur with carbon spars would be a better sailer. Its odd that I love braided dacron line, but those black carbon tubes just look too weird for me. I like varnished wood spars.

  31. #66
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    Default Re: An Ilur in R.I.

    Quote Originally Posted by John hartmann View Post
    I'm happy to hear of so many Ilurs in build; though my own bias is pretty obvious, it is good to see an excellent and elegant design well received. While it's a subject that has been discussed elsewhere in the forums at considerable length, I thought I would chime in as long as the rig is much on the builder's minds....the misainer is certainly the simplest of Vivier's options, and given the places and conditions it has been put to use by folks like Roger Barnes and Tim Cook, it is both powerful as well as manageble in as broad a range of conditions as I'd care to be out in. My own thinking, which led to the fully battened and sprit boomed sail was influenced from a couple of directions--on one hand, I had sailed in company with Ben Fuller's RanTan , and was struck by what a lovely and efficient sail that boat has.....also, the misainer requires a whisker pole for down wind work, and I was not enthusiastic about having such a long bit of kit kicking around in the cockpit the rest of the time, or having to fish it out of the stowage area below the floorboards if the boat was loaded with a week's worth of dunnage. The sprit boom keeps the pole overhead and in use on all points of sail, and if deployed properly with a good snotter arrangement, is self vanging downwind, and provides reasonable outhaul function for reaching and upwind work. The only downside I've found to the sprit boom is that it adds a bit of extra fiddling to the reefing drill. With regard to the full battens, I like very much that the sail does not flap or flog while hove to....the other side of that coin is that a fully battened sail doesn't take long to make up it's mind when changing points of sail, and powers up very swiftly......something to be aware of particularly while jibing...As far as the yawl is concerned, it is priceless to be able to heave to, drop the tiller, and move forward to single handedly tie in a reef in open water....



    This was taken last October, during the last Hurricane of the season....a F6 day, northern Lake Champlain.....hove to several times this day, either to reef myself, or to sit along while my friends reefed....heaving to with the mizzen is just a very comfortable and uneventful affair....lying to in conditions like that with the misainer would likely involve a lot more rolling, as the boat would be lying more quartered to the wind and seas, with the sail over the leeward quarter.....
    Getting back to Mike's thread, nice looking work on the molds--please be sure to take plenty of photos of your casting day to share with us!
    Cheerio,
    J
    Hi John, how is the Duck Punt coming along?. A quick note on this. I made the whisker pole, but I only ever used it once. It has been left in the shed ever since! It is not necessary to use with the Misanier rig at all. It does just fine off the wind with out it. While it would probably give a slight increase in speed, the main reason I reckon it is included in the plans, is that it is a clever bit of marketing by Francois, to persuade those who are used to a boomed mainsail, to give the Misanier a try. A little bit of insurance! I reckon John's sprit boom and snotter arrangement would be a better solution than the the whisker pole if someone was to try the Misanier, and then decide that they would prefer a boom.
    As for me, the thing I love about the Misanier is it's simplicity, the ability to roll it up to the mast when not in use, the speed you can detach the mainsheet from the thumb cleats, and how relaxed your crew are aboard with out a boom thrashing over head. Below is a pick of me running downwind sans pole with a relaxed crew of my sister and nieces!

  32. #67
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    Default Re: An Ilur in R.I.

    Tim that's good to know.

    If you wanted to, can you get a rolled up misainier around the yard under the floorboards when the oars come out, or even both oars stacked one side with sail and yard on the other down there?

    Does An Suire also have extra ballast in? I see you were using some lead pigs at one point.
    Last edited by Edward Pearson; 02-10-2016 at 05:58 AM.

  33. #68
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    Default Re: An Ilur in R.I.

    You can't have the yard under the floorboards do to the bulkhead that forms the lazarette. You can see how long it is below:



    I have 30 kgs of lead pigs, plus a couple of anchors and maybe 10 metres of chain as ballast. I'm soloing 99% of the time and like the extra weight in the boat.

  34. #69
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    Default Re: An Ilur in R.I.

    There's a lot going on in that photo!

  35. #70
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    Default Re: An Ilur in R.I.

    Tim Cooke,

    That's great info about the misainier. I was worried about the poling out when running too. I may just try the yawl rig as drawn with misainier main.
    It's so traditional looking! I've enjoyed several of your vids where one can see you tacking many times in quite a relaxed fashion.

    I've got a ways before deciding on a rig, but all discussions are welcome.

    Later I'll post some pix of last night's bronze pour.

    Mike
    "near it, a small whale-boat, painted red and blue, the delight of the king's old age."

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