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Thread: An Ilur in R.I.

  1. #1
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    Default An Ilur in R.I.

    Plans arrived yesterday. Bought a metric tape measure today. Excited!

    The title of this thread is in keeping with a couple of other "An Ilur in..." titles. Those builds turned out great, so why rock the boat?

    I'll probably be moving very slowly at first. Hoping 2 years will git 'er done. I may work on some parts this winter in the basement, then when it starts to warm up, set up a building jig in the garage.

    Wish me luck, esp. with these crazy metric measurements!




    Last edited by Falcon1; 11-13-2015 at 07:07 PM.
    "near it, a small whale-boat, painted red and blue, the delight of the king's old age."

  2. #2
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    Default Re: An Ilur in R.I.

    Very pretty design Falc, best of luck. I've heard good things about FV plans and the detail, even though it's metric.
    p.s. God gave you ten fingers so I reckon you'll do ok

  3. #3
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    Default Re: An Ilur in R.I.

    Quote Originally Posted by andrewpatrol View Post
    Very pretty design Falc, best of luck. I've heard good things about FV plans and the detail, even though it's metric.
    p.s. God gave you ten fingers so I reckon you'll do ok
    Now I finally know why the metric system is so easy. And to think it was because multiplying and dividing by 10 was easier than by 12!

    PS Good luck with the new build Falcon!
    Steamboat

    I get by with the judicious use of serendipity.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: An Ilur in R.I.

    Nice Mike! We'll all be enjoying your thread!

  5. #5
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    Default Re: An Ilur in R.I.

    Wonderful! I see you'll be building the yawl rig that John Hartmann commissioned. I've been out on that boat and can attest to it's wonderful characteristics.

    Not to throw a wet blanket on things, but you might want to re-post the pictures without your home address for all the world to see.

    We'll be looking forward to watching this project progress. Two years is a good time frame. No need to rush. Building the boat is just as much fun as using it.
    I was born on a wooden boat that I built myself.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: An Ilur in R.I.

    Great to see another one being built. I second Rich's comment on the address.

    Also - once you spend a little time using metric measurements, you will start wondering why the US & Myanmar are the only 2 countries left not using it.
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

  7. #7
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    Default Re: An Ilur in R.I.

    Alright! Sweet design, great lines! The Pathfinder is metric, I liked it. I also bought a long metric straight edge and I use it more than the tape . Looking forward to your build!

    Deke
    "There are many sailors at the bottom of the sea that are smarter than you or I"

  8. #8
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    Default Re: An Ilur in R.I.

    Excellent! This should be a piece of cake for you after honing your skills with the Whilly Boat. Looking forward to watching it unfold.

    Mike

  9. #9
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    Default Re: An Ilur in R.I.

    Thanks, guys! Address edited out. Good advice.

    Mike
    "near it, a small whale-boat, painted red and blue, the delight of the king's old age."

  10. #10
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    Default Re: An Ilur in R.I.

    Looking forward to your Ilur project! That's one to get your teeth well into.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: An Ilur in R.I.

    AWESOME!! I can't say enough about Vivier designs, his whole approach to the building process, and his responsiveness if you have questions. Looking forward to a great thread......

  12. #12
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    Default Re: An Ilur in R.I.

    What blew me away with John Hartmann's Ilur was the building jig. Very, very ingenious.
    I was born on a wooden boat that I built myself.

  13. #13
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    Default Re: An Ilur in R.I.

    Get her built and come on up!

  14. #14
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    Default Re: An Ilur in R.I.

    Subscribed to thread, and very much looking forward to the build! I will be interested to see the differences between your "Classic" glued lap boat and the CNC kit which I built from.

  15. #15
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    Default Re: An Ilur in R.I.

    Fantastic! My plans were in English but the boat building instructions were still not translated from French when I built mine. I take it that is not the case now?! Will you be using the full scale patterns?? They are worth the extra claw-wedge in my opinion...

  16. #16
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    Default Re: An Ilur in R.I.

    I think you made a great choice. John's reports tell that the Ilur is a very capable boat.

  17. #17
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    Default Re: An Ilur in R.I.

    The boat building part is still in French, but it looks like it mainly has to do with epoxy and glued-lap basics. Three pages are in English though. Hopefully all the pertinent info is on those pages! My French is near non-existent, but much of this stuff looks at least a little familiar. I will be ordering the full-sized patterns as soon as I save a few pennies.

    I'm looking forward to steam-bending frames and copper-riveting them in. The riveting is new to me, and it looks like another pair of hands is essential. The page on riveting is in French.

    I am struck by the difference between the plans for the Whilly Boat and the Ilur. Oughtred's plans came on five blueprint-sized sheets:
    A lines plan, a construction plan, a sail plan, and two sheets of full-sized patterns. Talk about economy! And beautiful drawings.

    I will be spending a lot of time looking at both John's and Tim's builds. Thanks to you both for such good documentation.

    Onward!
    "near it, a small whale-boat, painted red and blue, the delight of the king's old age."

  18. #18
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    Default Re: An Ilur in R.I.

    And, speaking of France, my thoughts are with her people as they endure a terrible time.

    Mike
    "near it, a small whale-boat, painted red and blue, the delight of the king's old age."

  19. #19
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    Default Re: An Ilur in R.I.

    Mike re the French building instructions. A guy in the Philippines has auto translated them and Francois has posted a download link on his blog site,

    blog.vivierboats.com

    scroll down to the bottom of the page.

  20. #20
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    Default Re: An Ilur in R.I.

    Quote Originally Posted by Falcon1 View Post
    The boat building part is still in French, but it looks like it mainly has to do with epoxy and glued-lap basics. Three pages are in English though. Hopefully all the pertinent info is on those pages! My French is near non-existent, but much of this stuff looks at least a little familiar. I will be ordering the full-sized patterns as soon as I save a few pennies.

    I'm looking forward to steam-bending frames and copper-riveting them in. The riveting is new to me, and it looks like another pair of hands is essential. The page on riveting is in French.

    I am struck by the difference between the plans for the Whilly Boat and the Ilur. Oughtred's plans came on five blueprint-sized sheets:
    A lines plan, a construction plan, a sail plan, and two sheets of full-sized patterns. Talk about economy! And beautiful drawings.

    I will be spending a lot of time looking at both John's and Tim's builds. Thanks to you both for such good documentation.

    Onward!
    What needs to be steam bent and riveted? I don't remember seeing that on John Hartmann' Ilur.
    I was born on a wooden boat that I built myself.

  21. #21
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    Default Re: An Ilur in R.I.

    Thanks, Graeme! I'll check that out. Rich, the "Classic" Ilur calls for either steam bent or laminated frames.
    I'm not sure, but maybe the kit has more bulkheads? The "classic" does have lots of flotation and below-floor storage like John's Waxwing.

    I'm enjoying your launch thread!

    Mike
    "near it, a small whale-boat, painted red and blue, the delight of the king's old age."

  22. #22
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    Default Re: An Ilur in R.I.

    The plans for the "Ilur" can be ordered with full-sized patterns for some structural parts. I'd love to try lofting someday, but not this time! Here I'm laying out the stem pattern and cutting it out of plywood. Got some nice vertical grain Douglas Fir to make it out of.







    "near it, a small whale-boat, painted red and blue, the delight of the king's old age."

  23. #23
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    Default Re: An Ilur in R.I.

    Hey Mike, that sure brings back find memories! For me the start of a project is my favorite part, full of potential and before the compromises and closr-enoughs set in. Carry on Sir!

    Mike

  24. #24
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    Default Re: An Ilur in R.I.

    Thanks, Mike! It is a wonderful part of the process. Looking at the plans and figuring out the designer's intent, imagining how this view corresponds to that, choosing wood. It's all good. I just need a benefactor!

    I'm taking a 6 week bronze casting class in January. Hoping to make one of these mast gates for the boat. The first is Tom Jackson's, I believe, and the rough casting is John Hartmann's.



    "near it, a small whale-boat, painted red and blue, the delight of the king's old age."

  25. #25
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    Default Re: An Ilur in R.I.

    Can't wait to see the castings, should be fun!

  26. #26
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    Default Re: An Ilur in R.I.

    Started the glue-up of the stem this morning. I'm not sure I like this method much. Three layers, with offset cuts. If it's a total failure, I may try to scarph solid wood like I did for the outer stem of Swift.

    More on that later. Meanwhile, I made this 6 inch mock-up to try my hand at cutting bird's mouths. It was a piece of cake! Very satisfying. Should be just a bit more difficult when the staves are 17 feet long. It's the right diameter though-90mm. Made from 1 and 3/8th staves by 3/4". I used Titebond 3 for the mock-up. Any thoughts on this vs. epoxy for the real one? Hoping to use Spruce.





    "near it, a small whale-boat, painted red and blue, the delight of the king's old age."

  27. #27
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    Default Re: An Ilur in R.I.

    My first thought for your mast would be to use the gap filling qualities of epoxy Falcon. I doubt you could get the staves to fit together 100% exactly like your mockup. Dunno if T3 has that quality.

  28. #28
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    Default Re: An Ilur in R.I.

    Quote Originally Posted by andrewpatrol View Post
    My first thought for your mast would be to use the gap filling qualities of epoxy Falcon. I doubt you could get the staves to fit together 100% exactly like your mockup. Dunno if T3 has that quality.
    Agreed. You can't miss with thickened epoxy.
    Interestingly titled book you have there on the table. Made me look it up. Sounds good!
    I was born on a wooden boat that I built myself.

  29. #29
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    Default Re: An Ilur in R.I.

    Sounds like epoxy is the way. Gap filling is always good, considering the usual quality of my joints.

    Rich, anything by Carl Hiaasen is a fun read. Quirky characters, action and an eco-preservation message in all of 'em. Can't miss!
    "near it, a small whale-boat, painted red and blue, the delight of the king's old age."

  30. #30
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    Default Re: An Ilur in R.I.

    Thanks for the Carl Hiassen reminder! I used to read him and Tim Dorsey but it's been a few years... sounds like a Florida crime binge is in my future!

    Epoxy for sure, mainly because I can't imagine the stress of a TB3 glue-up. For my 19' mainmast everything went smoothly with a combination of good preparation and the long open time of epoxy.



    The supports I used were leveled with the laser and then the last two were adjusted to accommodate the mast taper. That's #12 copper wire I tied with, I tried hose clamps on a small mock-up and decided that wire was cheaper and made it much easier to clean the squeeze-out. The only thing I wasn't expecting was how much epoxy I would use. It turned out OK, I just wish I would have had something else prepared that I could have used all the squeeze-out on, maybe something laminated.

    Mike

  31. #31
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    Default Re: An Ilur in R.I.

    Thanks for the tips, Mike!
    Today's progress:
    Gluing up the stem blank. And the finished blank. Needs a little more cleaning up, then I'll bevel the front face to receive planking.
    In other news 10 yr. old boy wants a fort on top of the garage. I told him to design it, and five minutes later, he came to me with this. On the plus side, there's only three screws, so it shouldn't take long.







    "near it, a small whale-boat, painted red and blue, the delight of the king's old age."

  32. #32
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    Default Re: An Ilur in R.I.

    The boys drawing thing - and your comment about it - literally made me laugh out loud
    Hurry up and finish it so you can get back to work on this new boat.

  33. #33
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    Default Re: An Ilur in R.I.

    A little point about the mast staving that might make it a much faster build: the last one I built (I have built four, so, "advanced beginner"), I figured out the trick of laying the staves down on the floor, before the 45 degree cuts are added, and then reducing the bottom third and top third into an even, shallow ramp on each end. When the 45s are cut then, the mast will go together in roughly a fat cigar shape, which is much easier to finish into final dimension than starting with a straight hollow tube and then either sanding or planning or both, to achieve the necessary shape for bottom and top. This is harder to describe than do, and I don't have any photos of the process. With a 17 foot spruce stick, you ought to get this right at or even under 20 lbs.
    Re-naming straits as necessary.

  34. #34
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    Default Re: An Ilur in R.I.

    Thanks, Dave. I'll give that a try. The tapering was mysterious to me (thought I needed to use the table saw.) I recently saw a video of a woman making one of these who cut the 45's first, then planed off the tapers from the backs.

    I'm lucky to have a mizzen mast and bumkin to practice on before the big boy!

    Mike
    "near it, a small whale-boat, painted red and blue, the delight of the king's old age."

  35. #35
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    Default Re: An Ilur in R.I.

    Quote Originally Posted by Falcon1 View Post
    Thanks, Dave. I'll give that a try. The tapering was mysterious to me (thought I needed to use the table saw.) I recently saw a video of a woman making one of these who cut the 45's first, then planed off the tapers from the backs.

    I'm lucky to have a mizzen mast and bumkin to practice on before the big boy!

    Mike
    Mike, If I recall, John Hartmann in his Ilur thread has several good photos and a nice summary of cutting the taper on the staves as Dave describes. And I believe Duckwork boats has a good one too, if I recall correctly (I've only skimmed it, but will be digging in deeper with my spars now that the heat in Florida has cleared. 70 degrees in the shop is a lot better for a big glue up!)

    http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/03/...mouth/mast.htm
    http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/04/...es/birdsmouth/

    Progress is looking good, keep it up! I loved the boy's plan - I've seen a few of those myself.
    Last edited by JasonD; 12-06-2015 at 10:35 AM. Reason: added Duckworks link

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