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Thread: 1941 Snipe

  1. #71
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    Default Re: 1941 Snipe

    My original snipe (the green and white one pictured above) had galvanized hardware and fittings like yours. I purchased another similar snipe, and that one happened to have bronze hardware. It must have been more of a deluxe model. I used the bronze hardware from the deluxe model on my more basic original boat. Now I'm in the market for some more bronze hardware to replace what I took. I'm hoping to complete my second boat as soon as the weather warms up. This morning it was -14F, so it will be awhile yet.

    I like your fancy tiller! When you start thinking about hardware and tillers, you must be seeing the end in sight for your project.

    Jim
    Last edited by Dunphy Snipe; 01-22-2019 at 09:07 PM.

  2. #72

    Default Re: 1941 Snipe

    20190111_150253.jpg Thought Dunphy was your last name Jim.

  3. #73
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    Default Re: 1941 Snipe

    No, I'm not a Dunphy relative. I did live in Oshkosh, and I do have two pre-war Dunphy snipes, however.

    The replica snipe I'm working on is going to closely resemble the picture you posted of Bill Crosby's famous snipe, "Also". As you've discovered, Dunphy Boats took full advantage of their famous client and featured him in their advertising as much as they could. His boat, that was custom built by Dunphy, was very influential, with many builders at the time copying its features like a daggerboard rather than the traditional pivoting centerboard. The shape of the cockpit and the use of decorative trim at the deck edge were other design elements that were copied.

    Your boat was built in the same era and may have been influenced by Bill Crosby's widely admired boat. Incidentally, he named it "Also" because he expected it to be a successful racing boat like his original boat was. Crosby's original boat was the third snipe to be built, and interestingly, he called it "Snipe". He loaned his "Snipe" out to a sailor in Texas, and it won an international race there in the early 1930's.

    Jim

    PS Here is a picture of my replica snipe:

    IMG_2104.jpg

    One of its most distinctive features is a very small horseshoe shaped cockpit with the daggerboard trunk completely covered by the fore deck. It's interesting to note that your deck has quite a bit more crown to it. That must have been a design feature that started in the 1940's.

    By the mid-1930's, the snipe, created by Crosby, had become the most popular one-design class racing boat in the world. Our boats were built when the snipe class was the king of the sailboat racing world.
    Last edited by Dunphy Snipe; 01-26-2019 at 05:57 PM.

  4. #74
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    Default Re: 1941 Snipe

    Great thread. Greater project. Keep it up.

  5. #75

    Default Re: 1941 Snipe

    Still plugging along.

    oars.jpg
    The oars that came with the boat might by from 1941 also. lol. ( the handles are different sizes.) They're in great shape so i'm leaving them as they are, survivors.
    oar storage a.jpg
    Also found i'll be able to store the oars nicely when the sails are up.

  6. #76
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    Default Re: 1941 Snipe

    Thanks for the up-date. I'm trying to picture how you are going to row your snipe as there are no fixed seats. I imagine you will have to rig something that is removable. My original snipe has a well for mounting a motor. I use a small trolling motor sometimes with a battery for a motorized wheelchair:

    IMG_2596.jpg
    Last edited by Dunphy Snipe; 03-05-2019 at 01:43 PM.

  7. #77
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    Default Re: 1941 Snipe

    I row our boat "Red Witch" standing and facing forward. It is easier than sitting and pulling as it just takes a bit of feathering and leaning on the single sweep we use. If I had two sweeps I would not have to steer. In your case you would not need the rudder at all. A topping lift could raise the boom above your head or you could lay it on deck.
    Jay

  8. #78
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    Default Re: 1941 Snipe

    Jay, I guess the technique you suggest could work for a snipe. I'm thinking though that the "Red Witch" is a 28ft keel boat--quite a different boat entirely from a 15ft centerboard snipe that weighs in at a mere 425 pounds or less.

    Jim
    Last edited by Dunphy Snipe; 03-05-2019 at 01:49 PM.

  9. #79

    Default Re: 1941 Snipe

    thumbnail.jpgIm currently sailing this boat in Fla. Almost the same size and sail area as the Snipe. I have to row 150-200 yards into 8-12 mph NE winds usually, getting back to the dock is easy though,lol. I plan on leaning my backside on the angled area on back of centerboard case ( works well in the shop after a few Modelos..) At the lake I'm gonna sail her on in PA should be 100 yards or so. Using an old mop handle/Gopro stick for a boom crutch, i'll rig up something a little nicer for the Snipe.

  10. #80
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    Default Re: 1941 Snipe

    Where there is a will, there is a way, I guess. Getting to and from the dock is always a challenge for me when I'm alone--even with my little motor. Getting the sails up and down alone is also challenging, especially with a 10-12 mph wind that you describe. When I was young and did a lot of sailing in Lightnings, there were always at least three of us. Now that I'm old and alone, and in a much smaller boat; going out is much more of a hassle. As a result (even though I have the time and opportunity) I don't go sailing as often as I thought I might.

    Jim

  11. #81
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    Default Re: 1941 Snipe

    Actual used Spipe Class sails should be available down stream from the racing class. Sails get "slow" long before they are worn out, and so are replaced at a frequent pace by the front end of the racing class. So there is no need to go pirate on the sails.
    SHC

  12. #82

    Default Re: 1941 Snipe

    Dunphy, I always have the 1st mate (wife) on the plastic boat in Fla. It was a fire drill at first but we have launching, sail raising etc. down now. I don't plan on launching the Snipe solo either.
    SHClark, I actually have what I believe are the original sails and they're not in bad shape. I'll have to dig them out of storage and get a pic.

  13. #83
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    Default Re: 1941 Snipe

    I've been blessed with a very nice wife, but sadly not a first mate. Sailing is a solo affair unless there is a grandchild handy--which doesn't often coincide with a sailing opportunity. The little motor is a step up from a canoe paddle, but sometimes you just do wish you had that "first mate" to raise the sail or fend off from the pier.

    Jim

  14. #84

    Default Re: 1941 Snipe

    oarlocks.jpg I want to use these neat oarlocks that came in a box of stuff with the Snipe. I don't know if they were ever used on this boat. The way the deck beams are curved it seems like it would be hard to row, Like the oars would dip into the water.

    waterline.jpgHere are the oars and oarlocks mocked up. Tip of the oar is 28 inches above floor. Where I think waterline will be is 23 inches above floor. Can I put the oarlocks on some kind of block to raise them? I'll have to row 50-100 yards out and back into where i'm gonna launch from.

  15. #85
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    Default Re: 1941 Snipe

    Quote Originally Posted by gizmojoe View Post
    oarlocks.jpg I want to use these neat oarlocks that came in a box of stuff with the Snipe. I don't know if they were ever used on this boat. The way the deck beams are curved it seems like it would be hard to row, Like the oars would dip into the water.

    waterline.jpgHere are the oars and oarlocks mocked up. Tip of the oar is 28 inches above floor. Where I think waterline will be is 23 inches above floor. Can I put the oarlocks on some kind of block to raise them? I'll have to row 50-100 yards out and back into where i'm gonna launch from.
    Are they not meant to be mounted inboard, so that the oar lock hangs down when not in use? I would fit a sculling oar lock to the transom and scull out.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  16. #86
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    Default Re: 1941 Snipe

    Another approach would to rig a single sculling oar off the stern as Nick mentions. That means you only have to stow one oar under the deck. It could be pivoted on a small stanchion that drops through a deck plate that is made from a small fuel filler screw in plate and is mounted near the stern. This will be very strong as it has the entire deck to support the thrust and the heel of the stanchion can fit into a socket screwed into the bottom planking or at a frame.
    The Asian Yuloh oar is unique and very efficient! Plus it requires little effort to make it work.
    Jay
    http://www.collars.co.uk/info/49/rec...h_sculling_oar
    Last edited by Jay Greer; 04-11-2019 at 11:34 AM.

  17. #87

    Default Re: 1941 Snipe

    Interesting idea. When it warms up a bit i'm gonna pull boat out of garage and mock mast and stays, fittings etc. (never seen boat rigged before) see what kind of room i Have.

  18. #88
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    Default Re: 1941 Snipe

    Please don't put those oarlocks on the Snipe.
    It will ruin everything and suck the joy out of your life.
    Seek alternatives, I have bronze bushings let into the side decks of some of my boats and modify the shaft of the oarlock to get the height right,
    Much more attractive, and less of a pain in the ass....
    SHC

  19. #89
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    Default Re: 1941 Snipe

    Easy to make a raised oarlock that would work with a bushing. Half inch rod goes into the bushing, a ID half inch pipe goes as high as needed and the half in oarlock goes into the pipe If leverage is an issue, extend the rod down to what ever it hits like the bottom and put in a block with bushing. I like the idea of standing and pushing or sculling. Either one only needs one oar; use your rudder and a pin for standing and pushing. And carry a light anchor or mushroom you can toss over to hold position while you leisurely make sail. Snipes have that nice high boom which is out of your hair.

    For hardware and rigging choices look for books of the period by William F. Crosby : 1940 Racing Small Boats, 1950 Fawcett: How to build 20 boats, No. 10. Paul Lazarus's article in WB 89 is useful.
    Ben Fuller
    Ran Tan, Liten Kuhling, Tipsy, Tippy, Josef W., Merry Mouth, Imp, Macavity, Look Far, Flash and a quiver of other 'yaks.
    "Bound fast is boatless man."

  20. #90

    Default Re: 1941 Snipe

    SHClark, LMAO, I was kind of working my way to the same decision. Ben Fuller, Thanks for the research tips.

  21. #91
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    Default Re: 1941 Snipe

    Credit must be given--SHClark knows what he likes and what he doesn't--and he's not afraid to share his preferences. I do agree with him, btw.

    Jim
    Last edited by Dunphy Snipe; 04-03-2019 at 03:09 PM.

  22. #92

    Default Re: 1941 Snipe

    unnamed.jpgSpent a few days getting 80 years of paint off the boats fittings and hardware. Going to step the mast this weekend and do a mock up so I can figure out where all this stuff goes.
    thumbnail (1).jpgMast looks to be in good shape.
    thumbnail (2).jpgI'm leaning towards just touching the mast up as it took way to long to remove the old school paint someone had slathered on all the bronze hardware.

  23. #93
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    Default Re: 1941 Snipe

    Quote Originally Posted by gizmojoe View Post
    unnamed.jpgSpent a few days getting 80 years of paint off the boats fittings and hardware. Going to step the mast this weekend and do a mock up so I can figure out where all this stuff goes.
    Are the shackle holes at the top of those chain plates worn oval?
    If so you might consider brazing a piece of bronze plate on both sides and re drilling.

    Did you have to cut into them to renew the slots in the screw heads?
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  24. #94
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    Default Re: 1941 Snipe

    You may be pleased to know that some of those parts are still being manufactured and sold.
    http://www.racelitehardware.com/
    If needed, I have a small stash of mid sixties Phenolic cam cleats and blocks which would be appropriate and function as poorly as they ever did.
    Pre Harken dinghy hardware really sucked.

    SHC

  25. #95
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    Default Re: 1941 Snipe

    Thanks for the Racelite link, SHClark. Does anyone, by chance, know of a good source for 1930's fittings and hardware? I've found a few nice things on e-bay, but still need a few bits and pieces for my replica project. Gizmojoe may be interested in some more period correct fittings as well.

    Jim

  26. #96

    Default Re: 1941 Snipe

    20190408_135006.jpg20190408_134701.jpgPeerie Maa, yes the holes are worn oval. My thought is to cut that top inch off and drill new holes. I had to use a cutoff wheel on 2 screw heads to get them out. I'll drill new holes near those. I'm trying to reuse as much of the old stuff as possible. It's 80 years old and lasted this long, plus I'm cheap, lol. One piece I'd like to find or recreate is the oval shaped piece in the middle of the hardware with the 4 screw holes, I believe it slides over the chain plate and screws to the deck. It gives it a nice, finished look. Probably have to fashion it out of a piece of bronze sheet.

    ShClark- thanks for the hardware offer. Everything looks good except the bottom of the forestay. Would the original look more like the other 2 pictured?Lol, Is the finish nail original equipment? I'm in the dark here. I even have the original sails, I'll try to get photos up tonight.
    Jim Dunphy, Spring has sprung! How goes your project?

  27. #97
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    Default Re: 1941 Snipe

    Quote Originally Posted by gizmojoe View Post
    20190408_135006.jpg20190408_134701.jpgPeerie Maa, yes the holes are worn oval. My thought is to cut that top inch off and drill new holes. I had to use a cutoff wheel on 2 screw heads to get them out. I'll drill new holes near those. I'm trying to reuse as much of the old stuff as possible. It's 80 years old and lasted this long, plus I'm cheap, lol. One piece I'd like to find or recreate is the oval shaped piece in the middle of the hardware with the 4 screw holes, I believe it slides over the chain plate and screws to the deck. It gives it a nice, finished look. Probably have to fashion it out of a piece of bronze sheet.
    In order to stop the holes wearing you need to increase the bearing surface between the clevis pin and the chain plate. That is why I suggested brazing cheeks on and redrilling, effectively increasing the bearing surface by threefold. Cutting into the chain plates has weakened them by as much as half. Flood the cuts with braze, brazing in a rod to fill the cuts if you can to re-establish the cross section area and remove a stress raising discontinuity.
    ShClark- thanks for the hardware offer. Everything looks good except the bottom of the forestay. Would the original look more like the other 2 pictured?Lol, Is the finish nail original equipment? I'm in the dark here.
    The finish nail is an improvised tommy bar to turn and tighten the bottle screw. Use something a bit posher if you want. Those bulldog clips above and below that bottle screw creating "eye splices" are an abomination. Do it properly, either with a Talurit or a made splice. Throw those bulldog clips away.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  28. #98
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    Default Re: 1941 Snipe

    Hi Gizmojoe. It's not quite spring here yet. We still have a bit of snow on the ground, and 4 to 8 inches of new stuff in the forecast. The snow has melted enough, however, so that I could get at my snipe if I really wanted to--I just need to get up the motivation to get started again.


    It's interesting that I'm also looking for the little slotted bronze pieces that fit over the chain plates. Other things I still need are some authentic looking bronze cam cleats, also blocks and cars for the jib sheets. I have some very nice new bronze turnbuckles, but something original (and aged) would be better.

    We've both been working on our snipes for a long time, and it seems like both of our projects are nearing completion. Hopefully we will be both be launching our projects this summer. Good luck and thanks for the up-dates.

    Jim

  29. #99
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    Default Re: 1941 Snipe

    Your hardware is a real mixed bag. Racelite claims to have have been started in the 1930s; I'd want to do a little digging around before I believe it, try to find a catalog. Your turnbuckles look post WWII to me. The bronze hardware does go back, companies like Wilcox Crittenden were well established. If I was doing the research, I'd start by looking in Yachting/ Rudder magazines of 1940 for marine hardware companies and advertisements. Then go hunt catalogs. I think cam cleats, even bronze ones are post WWII. Don't know if the original building plans had hardware specs; lots of times they did. People like the Ross Brothers in Connecticut (http://www.rossbros.com/) seem to find antique small boat hardware.
    Ben Fuller
    Ran Tan, Liten Kuhling, Tipsy, Tippy, Josef W., Merry Mouth, Imp, Macavity, Look Far, Flash and a quiver of other 'yaks.
    "Bound fast is boatless man."

  30. #100
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    Default Re: 1941 Snipe

    Quote Originally Posted by Dunphy Snipe View Post
    Thanks for the Racelite link, SHClark. Does anyone, by chance, know of a good source for 1930's fittings and hardware? I've found a few nice things on e-bay, but still need a few bits and pieces for my replica project. Gizmojoe may be interested in some more period correct fittings as well.

    Jim
    If your budget is up for it Port Townsend Foundry has all the goodies you could ask for. Or, you could go perfectly period and make your own.

  31. #101
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    Default Re: 1941 Snipe

    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh MacD View Post
    If your budget is up for it Port Townsend Foundry has all the goodies you could ask for. Or, you could go perfectly period and make your own.
    I suspect that the chain plates and the slotted plates that they go through (and prevent the chain plate crushing the wood of the deck) were made by the builder out of flat stock.
    Those bottle screws with the clevis ends and swaged fitting to the shroud wire are modern, probably fitted when the shrouds were replaced as they most certainly would have been during the life of the boat.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  32. #102

    Default Re: 1941 Snipe

    unnamed (1).jpgthumbnail (4).jpgThanks for all the help and advice fellas. Going to source some bronze and try to fabricate those things I need. Sails were made by Ratsey and Lapthorn. NYC.

  33. #103
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    Default Re: 1941 Snipe

    I'll add my thanks as well for the hardware suggestions. Port Townsend Foundry does seem to have almost everything. I didn't investigate what their prices might be like, however.

    Gizmojoe, I like your original sail. It's number--4328, and it's origin--NYC, places your boat, at least in the vicinity, to be a potential racing rival to William Crosby's famous snipe, "Also". John Rose may be able to shed some light on your boat's racing history(and possible fame). Neither of my two snipes were ever measured or numbered, so they don't have a racing pedigree like yours very well might have.

    Schools are closed here this morning for a "snow day". This is the second snow on the robins. One more, and it should be Spring.

    Jim

  34. #104
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    Default Re: 1941 Snipe

    [QUOTE=gizmojoe;5864007]20190408_135006.jpg20190408_134701.jpg
    Those look an awful lot like Sherman Johnson turnbuckles, which are still being manufactured and sold.
    These are two different models. The one on top might need the seizing wire to assure that it doesn't unwind itself.
    The finish nail does nothing but provide leverage for the one turning the barrel. The stop nuts are what prevent the thing from unscrewing.
    SHC

  35. #105
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    Default Re: 1941 Snipe

    Wonder how long the Sherman Johnson turnbuckles have been out there. Makes me want to spend some time in the mags hunting hardware suppliers and taking another look at hardware on boats like the Mystic dinghy collection.
    Ben Fuller
    Ran Tan, Liten Kuhling, Tipsy, Tippy, Josef W., Merry Mouth, Imp, Macavity, Look Far, Flash and a quiver of other 'yaks.
    "Bound fast is boatless man."

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