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Thread: PDRacer microcruiser

  1. #106
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    Default Re: PDRacer microcruiser

    Is there enough room bellow deck for peddling? How could it work? It has to be removable?

    if you had a permanent axel between the wheels could you still lay down there?

  2. #107
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    Default Re: PDRacer microcruiser

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Dreams View Post
    I am trying to copy the original Gorfnik design but I had many of the same questions. The height of the sides was chosen to give enough room for your feet and legs especially while laying down.







    more on next post

    Looks like there is enough room, but maybe the wheelhouse could come forward even further to allow your knees to go up more while peddling
    Last edited by Silvertoothtiger; 06-29-2017 at 12:34 PM.

  3. #108
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    Default Re: PDRacer microcruiser

    I was going to look for that picture. I think there would be enough room but it wouldn't be real hard to modify the plans if it wasn't tall enough.

    One thought I had for this design if I build another nicer one using better wood was to raise or round the front deck to give a little more room up front inside and to make it less boxy looking. It might be possible to have pedals up front with a chain drive inside the air boxes going back to the leeboard holes.

    A hand crank on either side to spin the wheels might be an easier option but not sure how good it would work on land. Might make steering easier if you could spin the wheels in opposite directions.

    You would need brakes if used on land too.

    It would decrease the interior space but a small steering wheel should be easy enough to attach to the rope steering to control the rudder.

    I see you are fairly new here. You might want to check out Little Idea/Professor Little's thread about airplane lifting wheels. The wheels never happened (spoiler alert) but it is/was one of my favorite threads here. It's a very long thread but worth reading in my opinion.

    http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthread.php?166255-I-want-to-build-airplane-lifting-wheels-into-my-boat-Im-building-but-dont-know-how&highlight=airplane+wheels



    Sea Dreams A.K.A. Brian

  4. #109
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    Default Re: PDRacer microcruiser

    I think its a crazy, but do-able idea. I dont like the idea of peddling 5km to my local slip, but i can imagine the looks on the locals faces when you just drive straight into the lake......priceless.
    I would have thought a detachable "dead" axle with soft tyres would be ideal and easy to strap on. The actual pedal drive is a bit more tricky. Add electric and you enter the realms of a powered vehicle on the road......though round here, cycle lanes are open for mopeds and electric bikes/4 wheelers. Interesting concept, one man boat, caravan.....

  5. #110
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    Default Re: PDRacer microcruiser

    Okay... Here I am to complicate things.

    If a body installed swinging, hanging pedals, and a CTT drive, the treadle shaft could have a drive gear either end, each with its own dog type clutch.
    One end could drive the road axle via chain drive.
    The other end could drive a low speed propeller.

    Imminently doable...

    Peace,
    Robert

  6. #111
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    Default Re: PDRacer microcruiser

    I had a vision of a uni-cycle attatched to the rudder pintles, does mean sitting outside, and actually you would need room for your knees to swing. I think a powered rear wheel, maybe an electric trolling motor, remove the prop and have either a geared hub or a shaft that connects to the spindle of the wheel, you could then sit inside and steer with a tiller. Needs some sort of brakes though......anchors are not great on tarmac, unless snag a cyclist going in the opposite direction. This idea has legs...er....peddles....maybe power.....

  7. #112
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    Default Re: PDRacer microcruiser

    Not quite what i had in mind, but sort of,





    I was thinking direct pedal-wheel drive, uni-cycle style, easy to add and remove. Hard to see how this would fold up and carry inside.

  8. #113
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    Default Re: PDRacer microcruiser

    Rob, right up your street...a drift Gorfnik


    I reckon you could make a wheel box inside with the pedals attached a bit like Bolgers barrow boat, with removable or even permenent mounted in tunnels, aft quarter wheels. I magine you drifting (in all kinds of ways) around a local skate board park in a Gorfnik, you would blow those youngsters minds......

  9. #114
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    Default Re: PDRacer microcruiser

    Easiest solution. Single wheel axle with a mounting arm to a standard fold up bike! Treat the Gorfnik as a sidecar. Easy to buy power packs to drive rear bicycle wheels. Should not be an over width load?



    Not sure where the Silvertoothtiger has gone, but welcome, and you really should not plant thoughts in my head just before i am due to retire....lord knows how one will sleep this night.....

  10. #115
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    Default Re: PDRacer microcruiser

    Quote Originally Posted by skaraborgcraft View Post
    Rob, right up your street...a drift Gorfnik


    I reckon you could make a wheel box inside with the pedals attached a bit like Bolgers barrow boat, with removable or even permenent mounted in tunnels, aft quarter wheels. I magine you drifting (in all kinds of ways) around a local skate board park in a Gorfnik, you would blow those youngsters minds......
    Good grief! I'm being hammered by a simple pedal car! Imagine if it had to float, too?!

    Peace,
    Robert

  11. #116
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    Default Re: PDRacer microcruiser

    Quote Originally Posted by Silvertoothtiger View Post
    Is there enough room bellow deck for peddling? How could it work? It has to be removable?

    if you had a permanent axel between the wheels could you still lay down there?
    I just noticed the last question. You could probably still lay down but it would get in the way. If you moved it ahead a bit it could probably be permanent. It's hard to climb up front anyway.

    I was actually just thinking about mounting bicycle wheels through the leeboard holes and adding handles on the back to use it like a wheel barrow. Wouldn't help with powering it from inside but would make it easy to move around and launch without a trailer. Mine already has one handle which is meant to be a yuloh support for sculling. A couple wheels could be stored on the front deck and the axle would easily mount on the side deck. You would probably want a sacrificial skid plate (or a hand brake on the wheels) to act as a brake to help slow down if going down hill.

    This thing is 4 foot wide and 8 foot long and weighs around 200 pounds so it would be a big sidecar for a bicycle. Also, having pulled a trailer with a bicycle before, it's like someone hanging on dragging their feet unless you go down hill and then it's like someone pushing you which makes stopping tough.

    I like all of the ideas even though they are probably mostly jokes but the best thing would be just get a small trailer and register the boat as a powered boat and mount a trolling motor on the rudder. If you had the money, a Hobie Mirage Drive would probably work good for powering it from inside and not require registering it or at least not as a power boat.

    The only reasons I haven't used this boat at all are the weight is too much for me to lift myself and I used cheap, thin plywood and don't trust it. I don't really regret building it even with the cheap plywood since I was building it mainly as a test while helping to draw up plans for it. I had fun and could now build a better one if I do it again with better wood.

    The original designer of Gorfnik has built or helped build several of them now and has used it a good bit. He could be using it right now for all I know. It can be built in about a week and is more comfortable than you might think. It doesn't make me feel claustrophobic at all being closed up inside it since there are windows all around you.

    Sea Dreams A.K.A. Brian

  12. #117
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    Default Re: PDRacer microcruiser

    Just thinking out loud here:
    A perfectly circular leeboard on either side, mounted with an axle right at the bottom panel such that the effective "board" has a semi-circular planform.
    Its low aspect ratio drawbacks will be mitigated by the fact that a semi-circle gives an elliptic lift distribution, the most efficient for a given span and area.
    No need to make them retractable when closing in on the shore, just carry enough speed and ride it out onto dry ground!

  13. #118
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    Default Re: PDRacer microcruiser

    Quote Originally Posted by James McMullen View Post
    Here's an amphibious canoe that uses the wheels as paddlewheels with the stern wheel being a rudder. Making the wheels retract like airplane wheels may be more complicated than you need. Maybe they can do double duty for you as leeboards or something.


    Yes this his is the sort of thing that could be done inside the Gorfnik but as has been said the wheelhouse would need to come further forward a bit more to allow your knees room.

    it would be easy enough to take the wheels off and put back the lee boards, and swap back again later.

    But it's an interesting thought making them permanant like the one above.

    bycicle brakes could be easy enough to implement.

    you could sail right up to the beach, quickly swap out the lee boards for wheels, fold up the rudder and put the wheel on there as well. Then you have a land yacht that you could also peddle.



    where I live I'm 10 min drive from the beach, I'm sure I could 'drive' this fantastic creation from home to the water, and after a day's cruising come I tot he beach and 'drive' home again. The navigation lights would be useful on the road, for early mornings or co int home late after dark.



    i wonder has anything like this ever been done before on a micro cruiser?
    Last edited by Silvertoothtiger; 06-30-2017 at 02:14 AM.

  14. #119
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    Default Re: PDRacer microcruiser

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Dreams View Post
    I am trying to copy the original Gorfnik design but I had many of the same questions. The height of the sides was chosen to give enough room for your feet and legs especially while laying down.



    The cabin height is kept just high enough, with the added height of the hatch, to give enough room to sit up inside with the hatch closed. Since it will often be sailed without the hatch, the height is kept even lower. Lowering wind resistance is the main reason for the height and length being so small. The length gives enough room to bend your knees while sitting on the seat with your head outside. The front deck is where the hatch gets stored and the folded hatch can then be used as a table for cooking.



    The angle of the cabin again reduces wind resistance and gives added interior space. Apparently it also could act as a back rest for sitting outside if conditions are good enough. A passenger might even ride up front but I don't know if that has been tested yet.

    The cabin width leaves side decks where things like a stand up paddle or yuloh is stored as well as the mast and sail and solar panel.








    more on next post
    Looking at these pictures wouldn't it be amazing to be amphibious

  15. #120
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    Default Re: PDRacer microcruiser

    Quote Originally Posted by Silvertoothtiger View Post
    Looking at these pictures wouldn't it be amazing to be amphibious
    Imagine exploring new islands or new places, just peddling our of the water. Up any beach or slipway.

    Then into the water again and ready to sail.

    There are always compromises. A good balanced approach is the way to go.


    PS. I wondered about actually having removable wheels on the Lee boards. Then a bit of rubber bungie cord or something at the top of them so that they can be held in place and pivot and it can be like suspension

    Then the drive part will have to be from the back wheel but then steering is a problem.

    The unicycle on the stern was a good idea, just can't think how to implement it

  16. #121
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    Default Re: PDRacer microcruiser

    Really, if built in pedal drive is desired, a CTT is the way to go.

    The drive shaft could be placed anywhere, and the pedals don't do in circles, but pivot like levers. The leg room needed is much less, and the drive can actually be more steady, as the drive shaft is constantly being driven "forward".

    Once the drive is in, it can be used to drive anything. Coupled to drive wheels, or to a propeller, or perhaps an oscillating fin drive type deal.

    Anyway, if you need to pedal in a confined space, the CTT is where it's at. Search the forum for my Edwardian Race Car thread. The drive system I developed is in there. I stole it from early "safety" bicycles.

    Peace,
    Robert

  17. #122
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    Default Re: PDRacer microcruiser

    Quote Originally Posted by amish rob View Post
    Really, if built in pedal drive is desired, a CTT is the way to go.

    The drive shaft could be placed anywhere, and the pedals don't do in circles, but pivot like levers. The leg room needed is much less, and the drive can actually be more steady, as the drive shaft is constantly being driven "forward".

    Once the drive is in, it can be used to drive anything. Coupled to drive wheels, or to a propeller, or perhaps an oscillating fin drive type deal.

    Anyway, if you need to pedal in a confined space, the CTT is where it's at. Search the forum for my Edwardian Race Car thread. The drive system I developed is in there. I stole it from early "safety" bicycles.

    Peace,
    Robert

    That at sounds awesome Rob, but I still don't fully understand it, have you got any pictures and or links you could post?

  18. #123
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    Default Re: PDRacer microcruiser

    Quote Originally Posted by whiskeyfox View Post
    Just thinking out loud here:
    A perfectly circular leeboard on either side, mounted with an axle right at the bottom panel such that the effective "board" has a semi-circular planform.
    Its low aspect ratio drawbacks will be mitigated by the fact that a semi-circle gives an elliptic lift distribution, the most efficient for a given span and area.
    No need to make them retractable when closing in on the shore, just carry enough speed and ride it out onto dry ground!
    this would certainly be the simplest idea, if you don't worry about any kind of peddling or anything, just two plywood wheels, and use it like a wheelbarrow as said before

    so they wheels are the ley boards when under sail, and they could be there permanently acting as short distance wheels
    Last edited by Silvertoothtiger; 06-30-2017 at 12:34 PM.

  19. #124
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    Default Re: PDRacer microcruiser

    Quote Originally Posted by amish rob View Post
    Really, if built in pedal drive is desired, a CTT is the way to go.

    The drive shaft could be placed anywhere, and the pedals don't do in circles, but pivot like levers. The leg room needed is much less, and the drive can actually be more steady, as the drive shaft is constantly being driven "forward".

    Once the drive is in, it can be used to drive anything. Coupled to drive wheels, or to a propeller, or perhaps an oscillating fin drive type deal.

    Anyway, if you need to pedal in a confined space, the CTT is where it's at. Search the forum for my Edwardian Race Car thread. The drive system I developed is in there. I stole it from early "safety" bicycles.

    Peace,
    Robert
    I think I found the link but your pictures are not showing. A pedal powered prop would be good enough for me but I don't know what CTT means.

    http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthread.php?214532-Edwardian-Race-Cars/page22

  20. #125
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    Default Re: PDRacer microcruiser

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Dreams View Post
    I think I found the link but your pictures are not showing. A pedal powered prop would be good enough for me but I don't know what CTT means.

    http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthread.php?214532-Edwardian-Race-Cars/page22
    Yes, sorry. Photobucket went crazy. CTT is constant torque treadle. I simply updated it a bit with push bike components. I will endeavor to restore the pictures on my thread.

    I will try and get one up here for you.

    Peace,
    Robert

  21. #126
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    Default Re: PDRacer microcruiser

    I loved this idea...https://www.outsideonline.com/2035021/water-bed-boat

    it looks like the basic hull is about the same size and shape as the puddle duck racer

    but Gorfnik is a far better boat all round, a serious micro cruiser

    i like this micro house boat for a while, but when I saw the puddle duck racer I thought wouldn't it be great to combine both ideas.

    https://www.treehugger.com/tiny-hous...el-durnin.html
    Last edited by Silvertoothtiger; 06-30-2017 at 12:45 PM.

  22. #127
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    Default Re: PDRacer microcruiser

    Scus me..But this thread has gone right off into the weird trees. Not that I do not enjoy reading about such things............... Multiple use vehicles do not have a great following. Flying cars, wheeled canoes etc. Usually do not do either of the ideas very well. But they look interesting.

  23. #128
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    Default Re: PDRacer microcruiser

    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew2 View Post
    Scus me..But this thread has gone right off into the weird trees. Not that I do not enjoy reading about such things............... Multiple use vehicles do not have a great following. Flying cars, wheeled canoes etc. Usually do not do either of the ideas very well. But they look interesting.
    SORRY. I forgot why I quit checking this forum daily. Say the word and I'll lock or delete this thread.

  24. #129
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    Default Re: PDRacer microcruiser

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Dreams View Post
    SORRY. I forgot why I quit checking this forum daily. Say the word and I'll lock or delete this thread.
    Don't. Getting to see that treehugger site was fun, along with several of the other off the wall ideas.
    A2

  25. #130
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    Default Re: PDRacer microcruiser

    Maybe it's best to make another thread about amphibious puddle duck cruiser ideas?

  26. #131
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    Default Re: PDRacer microcruiser

    Any updates?

    i love the Gorfnik design.

    i don't see NY reason why it couldn't have two plywood wheels instead of Lee boards and then it amphibious.
    Last edited by Silvertoothtiger; 10-28-2018 at 10:03 AM.

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