Page 1 of 4 12 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 35 of 114

Thread: Universal Fisherman One-Lunger Project

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Boston, MA
    Posts
    324

    Default Universal Fisherman One-Lunger Project

    Hi folks.
    As I mentioned in an earlier thread, I have two awesome MIT mechanical engineering seniors who accepted my one-lunger gauntlet, and will be doing their undergraduate theses on the topic. In the spirit of Mens et Manus, Sally and Sam will be debugging, taking apart, reverse engineering, repairing (where necessary) a Universal Fisherman. In parallel, they will also be attempting a new build using our shop and foundry of a 1901 engine, as described in "How to Build a 3hp Launch Engine," by E.W. Roberts.
    The hope is that their experience will be hugely educational, a blueprint for a new senior course, and of course, an awesome time in the lab.

    Earlier in the week, a friend from Martha's Vineyard, John Clough, generously donated his Universal Fisherman to our cause. So, a huge thank you to John for supporting our educational mission. The engine made it back to Cambridge, and is a thing of beauty.

    Sally and Sam will be posting here as the project unfolds. Here's our starting point.







    P.S. any information on the engine would be super appreciated. We do have Universal's "Instruction Book" for the Fisherman, as well as some documentation for the zenith carb and Wico magneto, but more info is better at this point.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    South Australia and Tasmania
    Posts
    14,281

    Default Re: Universal Fisherman One-Lunger Project

    Looks very similar to an Australian engine called a Simplex. Lovely bit of machinery.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    N.E. Connecticut.
    Posts
    5,724

    Default Re: Universal Fisherman One-Lunger Project

    This will be a fun thread to follow!
    the Wico magneto should be no problem for you, there are parts (repo) readily available online (even the missing front cover).
    I would be curious to see a drawing of the engine you are planning on building.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Walney, near Cumbria UK
    Posts
    39,241

    Default Re: Universal Fisherman One-Lunger Project

    Quote Originally Posted by DoctorB View Post


    I love the wording on that makers plate. Reminds me of the confident self promotion of a Henry Disston saw.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

    The power of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web
    The weakness of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Port Townsend WA
    Posts
    11,401

    Default Re: Universal Fisherman One-Lunger Project

    Good on ya! This is an admirable project which, brings back memories of my Columbia River gill netter. It had a single cylinder Hix engine and was a real joy to run. We referred to spining the 150lb flywheel to start it as, "Shaking Hands With Jonathon". The engine stood about three and a half feet tall from bottom of the crankcase to the top of the head. It had a make and break ignition, glow plug and what was called an "aspirator" that acted as a carburetor. It was made of cast bronze as were the external valve control handles. I think it cruised at 500 RPM One could dance on deck to the beat of the engine which, would blow smoke rings from time to time. Great fun! Please keep the info a coming!
    Jay

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Central Coast, Ca
    Posts
    19,926

    Default Re: Universal Fisherman One-Lunger Project

    That Wico magneto plays two springs against each other for the timing control. They are a bit fussy (the springs can fail) and as I mentioned earlier that engine can break your arm when it back fires.
    Spend some time to understand exactly how that timing device works, and make certain the spark occurs slightly after top dead center (retarded) when hand cranking it.
    (I know two different people that have suffered injury from that engine but to be fair, both engines were mounted in a boat with limited access to the handcrank, one was through a bulkhead and the other was too close to a floor timber. Both injuries involved a broken arm!)
    Some of the fisherman engines had a single V-belt groove cut into the flywheel to mount a Delco starter/generator, a nice feature.
    The piston rings are wide, inefficient, and difficult to source, short of making them. But it is possible to just double up two modern rings in each groove with excellent results. The wide oil ring was still available the last time I rebuilt one, about twenty-five years ago.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Boston, MA
    Posts
    10

    Default Re: Universal Fisherman One-Lunger Project

    Hi all! It's Sally, one of the students working on this project. The last week we've been focusing on getting the Universal Fisherman up and running smoothly before we completely disassemble it and clean it up. After some quick repairs to the fuel line (I needed to cut a new gasket for the filter) and gas tank, we managed to start it up.


    Fuel filter disassembled



    After running the engine for a while and messing with the choke, throttle, and timing for the magneto, we realized that the water pump wasn't working and the engine was quickly overheating. We confirmed that there wasn't a clog by running water from a garden hose through the cooling system, and then took it apart to make sure that nothing was broken. The pump still looks great, and it seems the only repair it needs is a new gasket, which we'll lasercut this week. We decided that the pump probably isn't self priming (which makes sense because the engine is generally in a boat and the inlet can be below the waterline), so we'll clean up the pump and retest it soon.


    Water pump. The gasket is disintegrated but everything else is in great shape.

    Ultimately we plan on creating a CAD model of the Fisherman, so we'll be measuring the components of the water pump this week as we clean it up. I started making the model of the 1901 Roberts engine that we hope to build eventually, and am a little intimidated by the drawings I have to decipher! It will be interesting to build the engine in the 21st century since we have access to so many more fabrication techniques than the people who built the original engines, like CNC mills and lathes, 3D printers, and lasercutters.


    Example of drawings for Roberts 3 hp engine

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    2,108

    Default Re: Universal Fisherman One-Lunger Project

    Excellent Sally Ann !

    It will be fun to follow this thread .

    Thanks for posting , and the pictures.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Cedarville, New Jersey
    Posts
    1,097

    Default Re: Universal Fisherman One-Lunger Project

    Set your bucket of water up higher and make sure all the water lines are full. My Palmer will lose its prime if I leave the bucket of water on the floor.

    I don't know where you are, but my Palmer is in the garage and freezes in the winter so I am using 50/50 antifreeze to run it with into a bucket behind it on the bench. Its just sitting there waiting for a boat so I start it every once in a while.
    Fish and ships or is that chips

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Canada - From Sea to Sea
    Posts
    2,019

    Default Re: Universal Fisherman One-Lunger Project

    What an awesome project and to complete CAD renderings along with the restoration is ambitious indeed. Growing up in a wee fishing village on the coast of Newfoundland, I was awakened many an early morning during fishing season to the sound of one-lungers steaming out the bay to the fishing grounds. The most popular models in that neck of the woods were the Atlantic and the Acadia. Here's one steaming out the bay.


  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Central Coast, Ca
    Posts
    19,926

    Default Re: Universal Fisherman One-Lunger Project

    Pack the grease cups full, tighten them up until grease enters the pump and that will seal the pump enough to prime it. That is the routine every time you start it...

  12. #12

    Default Re: Universal Fisherman One-Lunger Project

    Quote Originally Posted by Canoeyawl View Post
    Pack the grease cups full, tighten them up until grease enters the pump and that will seal the pump enough to prime it. That is the routine every time you start it...
    That makes sense, external gear or spur gear pumps should be self priming if everything is tight.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    St. Simon\'s Island, GA, USA
    Posts
    5,282

    Default Re: Universal Fisherman One-Lunger Project

    I had a very good opinion of my Stuart Turner P5M, a single cylinder, two cycle delivering 4 hp at 1500 rpm. Unfortunately not made any more.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    N.E. Connecticut.
    Posts
    5,724

    Default Re: Universal Fisherman One-Lunger Project

    As mentioned above, that gear pump should have the ability to be reasonably self priming. A word of caution about cutting a new gasket for it. The gasket for a gear pump needs to be quite close in proper thickness for correct working of the pump. If the gasket material is too thick there will be excessive leakage past the ends of the veins/spurs/teeth of the gear (whatever you want to call them) from one 'pocket' to the next. This will cause loss of pumping efficiency, and will make it much less "self priming". Conversely, too thin of a gasket and the ends of the gears will rub excessively on the cover plate of the pump, causing heat and excessive wear. The cover plate gaskets for these pumps are usually a paper thin type of gasket, not the normal "gasket paper" material that you can pick up at most auto-parts stores.

    Most other gaskets you will be dealing with on this engine are much less critical in the thickness, and the material available at auto-parts stores will work fine.


    Lastly for now, .......... Laser cutting a gasket for a waterpump?!?!?! (lol, just had to throw that in there.) The 'traditional' and also easiest and most accurate way to cut one-off gaskets is to lay the gasket paper over the part and gently tap around the perimeters (in and out), and the bolt holes with a ball peen hammer. You could cut 10 good gaskets this way in less time than you could set up and laser cut one.
    Last edited by nedL; 09-21-2015 at 11:33 AM.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Boston, MA
    Posts
    324

    Default Re: Universal Fisherman One-Lunger Project

    Quote Originally Posted by nedL View Post
    Laser cutting a gasket for a waterpump?!?!?!
    Any time with our laser is a good time. (Anyone want a gasket??)

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    N.E. Connecticut.
    Posts
    5,724

    Default Re: Universal Fisherman One-Lunger Project

    Quote Originally Posted by DoctorB View Post
    Any time with our laser is a good time. (Anyone want a gasket??)
    ..... Very well then, ..... laser on!

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Central Coast, Ca
    Posts
    19,926

    Default Re: Universal Fisherman One-Lunger Project

    This sediment bowl...


    Should have a fine mesh brass screen above the gasket, otherwise there is no filter.

    (Like this one; note there are variations of this going back to the Model T Ford. They used to be common, today you just get a blank stare at the auto parts store!)


    Or this one with a gasket included (ebay)


  18. #18
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Boston, MA
    Posts
    10

    Default Re: Universal Fisherman One-Lunger Project

    Quote Originally Posted by Canoeyawl View Post
    Should have a fine mesh brass screen above the gasket, otherwise there is no filter.
    Yup! There's a screen, just not visible in the picture



    Also, a first pass at some laser cutting:



    Still needs some tweaking, but shouldn't take long to fix.
    Last edited by Sally Ann; 09-21-2015 at 07:17 PM.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Central Coast, Ca
    Posts
    19,926

    Default Re: Universal Fisherman One-Lunger Project

    I ran a small launch one summer with a universal Fisherman. It drew the old timers out of the woodwork whenever I arrived at the pier.
    You need a small launch for actual testing right there in the river, no?

  20. #20

    Default Re: Universal Fisherman One-Lunger Project

    Instead of any gasket at all, why not simply seal the surfaces with a good automotive sealant? I would go with Permatex Ultra Gray; have great faith in it. Mazda used an Asian version of the same thing on oil pans, and you had to beat them off with a 4 lb shot hammer after the bolts were out. I freely admit the laser cutter has a wonderful cool factor, though.

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    N.E. Connecticut.
    Posts
    5,724

    Default Re: Universal Fisherman One-Lunger Project

    Very nice on the laser cutting,... Hmmm ... Do you take requests?????

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Place
    Posts
    732

    Default Re: Universal Fisherman One-Lunger Project

    Enjoying this so far, thanks for sharing the steps. If you grease fiber gaskets, they will come off easier next time and might be reusable. If there is liquid behind them constantly or more pressure and the grease won't be enough so you need a goop, I like Hylomar, which is weird stuff (liquid urethane) but also makes it possible to peel the gasket off intact someday. If you need to go gasket-free somewhere, Permatex Anaerobic might be a solution.

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Jan 2000
    Location
    Cushing, Maine
    Posts
    3,325

    Default Re: Universal Fisherman One-Lunger Project

    I have a sneaking suspicion that the Roberts gets a goodly dose of oil mixed in with the gasoline, much more than is acceptable today. Some of those engines wanted 10 to one; by the relatively late Universal, grease cups and a full crank case did the job.

    Is part of the thesis a look at the astonishingly fast conversion of the New England small fishing boat fleet to internal combustion detailed in some of the fish commission reports from 1902 to 1907. I had a look at this in a paper I did for the Log of Mystic Seaport but much more could be done.
    Ben Fuller
    Ran Tan, Liten Kuhling, Tipsy, Tippy, Josef W., Merry Mouth, Imp, Macavity, Look Far, Flash and a quiver of other 'yaks.
    "Bound fast is boatless man."

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Philadelphia, PA
    Posts
    685

    Default Re: Universal Fisherman One-Lunger Project

    Thanks for putting this thread up, very cool project! I look forward to seeing a back and forth showcasing both state of the art fabrication technology and the hardwon art of the machinist and the mechanic as promised in this exchange:
    Quote Originally Posted by nedL View Post
    Lastly for now, .......... Laser cutting a gasket for a waterpump?!?!?! (lol, just had to throw that in there.) The 'traditional' and also easiest and most accurate way to cut one-off gaskets is to lay the gasket paper over the part and gently tap around the perimeters (in and out), and the bolt holes with a ball peen hammer. You could cut 10 good gaskets this way in less time than you could set up and laser cut one.

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Brunswick, Maine
    Posts
    1,438

    Default Re: Universal Fisherman One-Lunger Project

    Judging from Post #14 you could fine tune the performance of the water pump by experimenting with gasket thickness.

  26. #26
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Cambridge, MA
    Posts
    18

    Default Re: Universal Fisherman One-Lunger Project

    Hello All! I'm Sam(antha), the other student working on the One-Lunger Project.

    Long story short, we got the pump to work!


    Sally finished CADing and altering the gasket to get a perfect fit. We didn't want the holes on the gasket to interfere with the holes on the plate, as it can cause the gasket to twist when we put the screws in, essentially making it ineffective sealing.

    Last edited by SamOneLunger; 09-23-2015 at 09:37 PM.

  27. #27
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Canada - From Sea to Sea
    Posts
    2,019

    Default Re: Universal Fisherman One-Lunger Project

    Way to go Sam! It's awesome to see young folks involved in a project that was so historically important to the life line of multi thousands of fisherman families in North America in the 20th century.


  28. #28
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Boston, MA
    Posts
    324

    Default Re: Universal Fisherman One-Lunger Project

    Quote Originally Posted by nedL View Post
    Very nice on the laser cutting,... Hmmm ... Do you take requests?????
    What'cha have in mind?

  29. #29
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Cambridge, MA
    Posts
    18

    Default Re: Universal Fisherman One-Lunger Project

    Hello People of the Wooden Boat Forum!

    Stay tuned because later today, or more likely tomorrow, I will be posting pictures and descriptions of the disassembly of this beauty! The carburetor of the universal fisherman!


    Throughout the project, I will be posting pictures of the numbers we find on the parts. If at all, you know how to identify the age/model year of the engine that would be incredible!

    Check in later for my update,
    Sam

  30. #30
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    N.E. Connecticut.
    Posts
    5,724

    Default Re: Universal Fisherman One-Lunger Project

    Quote Originally Posted by DoctorB View Post
    What'cha have in mind?
    Hmmm, ..... I could use a pair of gaskets that go between the waterpump and rear bell housing on a pair of 1957 Chrysler Crown marine engines.

    Your carburetor is probably a common one in small vintage farm tractors and industrial engines (think engine driven air compressors, generators, sand blast units and even possibly fork lifts. You are missing the 'flame arrestor' which the USCG would tell you is needed to run the engine in a boat.
    Last edited by nedL; 10-05-2015 at 04:02 PM.

  31. #31
    Join Date
    May 1999
    Location
    Brooklin, Maine, USA
    Posts
    551

    Default Re: Universal Fisherman One-Lunger Project

    Congratulations on a great project!

  32. #32
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Boston, MA
    Posts
    324

    Default Re: Universal Fisherman One-Lunger Project

    The flame arrestor would be one of those air intake wire mesh jobs, correct?

  33. #33
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Central Coast, Ca
    Posts
    19,926

    Default Re: Universal Fisherman One-Lunger Project

    There are many variations of flame arrestors, wire mesh is one way to do it.

    The "correct" carburetor for that engine is a Marvel Schebler (marine version). There are specific requirements for marine use, one being a flame arrestor, and another is any overflow fuel, either from excessive choke or flooding caused by a faulty float valve, be contained and returned to the engine as liquid and not as vapor to the bilge.
    This is moot running on a bench, but important in a boat.

    (There are many variations, I think the older brass up-draft version with a throttle plate might serve. They seem to be easier to find than the cast iron "marine version" )

  34. #34
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    N.E. Connecticut.
    Posts
    5,724

    Default Re: Universal Fisherman One-Lunger Project

    Hmmm,... Canoeyawl, I am curious. I understand what you mean about this:
    "another is any overflow fuel, either from excessive choke or flooding caused by a faulty float valve, be contained and returned to the engine as liquid and not as vapor to the bilge."
    How does that get addressed with an updraft carb? I have five marine engines with updrafts and none have any provision for this. Even my big boat with a pair of Chrysler Crowns, once the horn at the bottom of the carb fills, it's going in the bilge.
    Last edited by nedL; 10-07-2015 at 07:14 AM.

  35. #35
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Hills of Vermont, USA
    Posts
    23,926

    Default Re: Universal Fisherman One-Lunger Project

    Another thanks for this thread. Should be fascinating to watch the old vs. the new - as in laser cutting a gasket vs. ball peen or sharpened copper/steel pipe.
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •