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Thread: Sail and Motor Pr0n.

  1. #36
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    Default Re: Sail and Motor Pr0n.

    I agree about where the end of the tiller is , it's just the ''arc of sweep''(?) that is so large. A shorter tiller has a shorter radius so I'm going to use a linkage to bring the pivot forward..... if that makes sense.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  2. #37
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    Default Re: Sail and Motor Pr0n.

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterSibley View Post
    I agree about where the end of the tiller is , it's just the ''arc of sweep''(?) that is so large. A shorter tiller has a shorter radius so I'm going to use a linkage to bring the pivot forward..... if that makes sense.
    Sounds like a plan Peter. If your at tiller stage, yours is likely pretty meaty, but I had to make another one on my boat inorder for it to take a Camcleat downhaul on the top. Also it's good to have one of those tillermate or a chain and pin, so you can keep your rudder straight fi your going forward under sail. Those take a certain geometry to the boat to work, so if your going to fit something like that, just have a weather eye that it all has a place. I guess the tiller pivot rake has to match the rudder head rake angle? There was a thread on the Ness Yawl alternative tillers a while back with linkages and Walkabout has one.





    Ebihen 15 built by Tavy Wooden Boats.

    This one built balanced lug sloop.


  3. #38
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    Default Re: Sail and Motor Pr0n.





    Motor controls right in his lap. No squatting, sitting as the boat has more depth.

    https://stansboat.wordpress.com/
    Last edited by keyhavenpotterer; 09-19-2015 at 06:16 AM.

  4. #39
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    Default Re: Sail and Motor Pr0n.

    Quote Originally Posted by keyhavenpotterer View Post
    Sounds like a plan Peter. If your at tiller stage, yours is likely pretty meaty, but I had to make another one on my boat inorder for it to take a Camcleat downhaul on the top. Also it's good to have one of those tillermate or a chain and pin, so you can keep your rudder straight fi your going forward under sail. Those take a certain geometry to the boat to work, so if your going to fit something like that, just have a weather eye that it all has a place. I guess the tiller pivot rake has to match the rudder head rake angle? There was a thread on the Ness Yawl alternative tillers a while back with linkages and Walkabout has one.
    Good advice Ed, I'll chase that thread up.

    Here's the current state of play on JIM.

    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  5. #40
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    Default Re: Sail and Motor Pr0n.

    The Ebihen 16 cutter.


  6. #41
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    Default Re: Sail and Motor Pr0n.

    Thoroughly enjoying this thread. It poses a really useful question and some beautiful solutions.

    I often wonder why I hardly ever see pictures of Tom Dunderdale's boats (Campion Boats). I have plans for his Electra and Annie- which both, sort of, fit the bill here (although the motor part of the equation might be problematic with electra). I would still love to build them, but for a current embarrassment of boats. Beautiful plans, thoroughly and accurately plotted in exquisite detail, lovely hull shapes from traditional inspiration....just sayin'....any out there?

  7. #42
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    Default Re: Sail and Motor Pr0n.

    Rob, I too have plans for Tom Dunderdale's 18' Electra but chose the Selway Fisher JIM. They're both great boats but not easy to fit an engine to!
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  8. #43
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    Default Re: Sail and Motor Pr0n.

    Yes, I'm enjoying that thread too, since I found it. Since you don't have a well, will you have a bracket?

  9. #44
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    Default Re: Sail and Motor Pr0n.

    Probably just oars, we have plenty of wind here and seldom see a glassy sea surface unlike our US friends. If absolutely necessary I'd fit an electric trolling motor probably on a mid mounted side bracket, hopefully something removable.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  10. #45
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    Default Re: Sail and Motor Pr0n.


  11. #46
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    Default Re: Sail and Motor Pr0n.



    CLC Nanoship

  12. #47
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    Default Re: Sail and Motor Pr0n.

    I like that Nanoship. I think, sometimes, it must be good to have limited storage space, it cuts down on the design options.

  13. #48
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    Default Re: Sail and Motor Pr0n.

    Here's some outstanding design work from Roger Dongray.

    This is a 12ft'er: the 'new'/ Mk2 Cornish Cormorant available in grp but was also available as a plywood kit. This one is built from a ply kit from Seashell boats, I know it looks grp.

    Being quite wide (the Mk1 was a gaff catboat) and with the beam carried aft you get a more cavernous rear locker which is taking this Mariner 3.3 short shaft engine side on. That transom shape also helps carry the weight of the outboard and also improves performance under power. The top of the transom is cut down to put the SS engine prop in the water. The wider transom also enables the motor to be more off center, so the rudder can still swing.

    The boat is 125kg, less than Ilur at 300kg ish, so less 'downstairs' but he's also getting the oars stored into a forward bulkhead pocket in the bilge. Good sail and motor packaging.









    Last edited by Edward Pearson; 05-16-2017 at 09:56 AM.

  14. #49
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    Default Re: Sail and Motor Pr0n.

    Quote Originally Posted by Edward Pearson View Post
    Here's some outstanding design work from Roger Dongray.
    Quote Originally Posted by Edward Pearson View Post

    This is a 12ft'er: the 'new'/ Mk2 Cornish Cormorant available in grp but was also available as a plywood kit. This one is built from a ply kit from Seashell boats, I know it looks grp.

    Being quite wide (the Mk1 was a gaff catboat) and with the beam carried aft you get a more cavernous rear locker which is taking this Mariner 3.3 short shaft engine side on. That transom shape also helps carry the weight of the outboard and also improves performance under power. The top of the transom is cut down to put the SS engine prop in the water. The wider transom also enables the motor to be more off center, so the rudder can still swing.

    The boat is 125kg, less than Ilur at 300kg ish, so less 'downstairs' but he's also getting the oars stored into a forward bulkhead pocket in the bilge. Good sail and motor packaging.






    Lovely boat!


    When my wife makes me move to Arizona - this will be my French Cormoran build which is quite similar.

    Last edited by Ted Hoppe; 05-16-2017 at 03:11 PM.
    Be wary of your critics, at peace with your decisions, and work hard to be a better man.

  15. #50
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    Default Re: Sail and Motor Pr0n.

    I looked over the French Cormoran by ACCF at last years Southampton boatshow. I really liked it. I also like the KT boat they do. A big deep catboat with a carbon rig. Powerfull flat floor and a self draining cockpit. Would make a good Solent boat. Prices were good, though that was before we lost value against the Euro.

    The KT boat.


  16. #51
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    Default Re: Sail and Motor Pr0n.


  17. #52
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  18. #53
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  19. #54
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    Default Re: Sail and Motor Pr0n.

    The grp one seems to lose a bit of character and that aft locker and aft side storage cubby.

    Maybe too much tankage also, could be quite stable inverted, though it probably makes it cheaper and quicker to make. I think the side tanks only on the plywood version would be more than enough.

    Grp version




    Ply version:-

    Last edited by Edward Pearson; 05-17-2017 at 05:32 AM.

  20. #55
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    Default Re: Sail and Motor Pr0n.

    This is an archive photo of Barry harbour, Wales.



    If you look to the bottom right there are 6 boats on a trot. They are the Barry harbour pilot boats that developed here to carry pilots out into the Bristol Channel. Obviously...they'd race 'em, but they have to behave well.

    They are 16.5ft long and 5.5 ft beam with a little bit of keel and a centerplate. 300kg hull with 200kg lead ballast in the bottom plus a metal plate.

    The fastest one, designed by Gustaf Hellstrom, a Norwegian captain who settle in Barry called Tela, after the war had a mold taken off her. She was and still is sold as the Salterns Tela, now co-associated with Collars who make spars.

    They are rowable, but also take an outboard. Not far off a 16ft Beg Meil perhaps.



    A moderate keel with a small amount of rake...



    Double ended on the waterline to a moderate transom, not dissimilar to West country working boats accross the Bristol channel. Less sail carrying power but better helm balance and light air performance.

    Last edited by Edward Pearson; 05-17-2017 at 06:37 AM.

  21. #56
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    Default Re: Sail and Motor Pr0n.

    On the opposite side of the Bristol Channel, the working fisherman of Clovelley harbour on Devon's north coast, had similar boats. 16ft long 6ft wide for greater carrying capacity. Slightly more beam and depth of keel. No plate. Firm bilges.



    Clovelley fishing village is wedged into a steep ravine, making use of a gravel beach and small sea wall.



    Similarly one of the last Picarooner's had a mold taken off it by Gaffers and Luggers and is still sold. Updated with inbuilt buoyancy and a swap from lug to gaff rig with a plate. 100kg ballast but half a foot wider at 6ft than a Tela. Inboard outboard arrangement.

    There seems to be a migration towards 16ft long 6 ft wide/ 10sqm sail area inshore boats in the UK when you leave nature to it with a bit of keel and ballast.

    GRP Clovelley Picarooner.



    Keel profile & fore and aft shape.



    Noteworthy detail on the Heard Picarooner is the slightly offset centerboard case, so that there is room to sleep aside it.



    This boat "Crinker", sailing with a pod of Dolphins off the Cornish coast.

    Last edited by Edward Pearson; 05-17-2017 at 07:34 AM.

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