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Thread: Building the Wabnaki 16' Strip Canoe

  1. #1
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    Default Building the Wabnaki 16' Strip Canoe

    Hi all

    My name is Ofer i'm living in Albany, CA. I am entrepreneur, software engineer and industrial designer.

    A few months ago I decide to realize my dream to build boat, and started to take a class at the Spaulding Wooden Boat Center. I love it so I decided to start my own project and selected the first one to be a strip canoe.

    Here is my project - the beginning...





    Last edited by oferraz; 08-26-2015 at 11:51 PM.

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    Default Re: Building the Wabnaki 16' Strip Canoe

    Welcome to the Forum!
    Looks like a great first project. I love the tumblehome.
    I was born on a wooden boat that I built myself.

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    Default Re: Building the Wabnaki 16' Strip Canoe

    I wonder if the designer left out the "a" in the name on purpose. The Wabanaki are a Maine native American nation.
    Everything changes . Everything is connected . Pay attention

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    Default Re: Building the Wabnaki 16' Strip Canoe

    Looks like a good start! Remember to keep everything as lightweight as possible -- a common mistake nearly all new builders make (myself included) is to over-build on the "more MUST be better, eh?" theory. But for stripper boats that isn't true, particularly when you'll probably be cartopping it.

    My Cosine Wherry is strip built, and while normally sailed off a trailer, it does get cartopped every few years. Weight does matter!
    Last edited by Thorne; 08-27-2015 at 09:37 AM.
    "The enemies of reason have a certain blind look."
    Doctor Jacquin to Lieutenant D'Hubert, in Ridley Scott's first major film _The Duellists_.

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    Default Re: Building the Wabnaki 16' Strip Canoe

    Fun boat. Lots of volume and can carry a load.
    "The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails."
    -William A. Ward



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    Default Re: Building the Wabnaki 16' Strip Canoe

    Quote Originally Posted by Rich Jones View Post
    Welcome to the Forum!
    Looks like a great first project. I love the tumblehome.
    Thanks Rich, I am looking forward to learn from all of you

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    Default Re: Building the Wabnaki 16' Strip Canoe

    Quote Originally Posted by WHYankee View Post
    I wonder if the designer left out the "a" in the name on purpose. The Wabanaki are a Maine native American nation.
    Thanks for the comment. This is very interesting. First, I should have mention that the designer is Gil Gilpatrick. You are right he is from Maine and it is the name of the native American nation. I checked again and this is how he spells the name. I am not sure if he was changing it on purpose.

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    Default Re: Building the Wabnaki 16' Strip Canoe

    Thanks for the advise. Yes I am planing to put it on the car.

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    Default Re: Building the Wabnaki 16' Strip Canoe

    Started this morning with creating a simple scarf joint jig



    Finished the mold and started the strip planking



    I am using gorilla glue for the planking



    That's it for the day

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    Default Re: Building the Wabnaki 16' Strip Canoe

    You may find that Gorilla Glue is tremendously obnoxious for stripping. Most folks are using something like Tightbond. My choice has always been Weldwood - good gap filling and sands very cleanly.

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    Default Re: Building the Wabnaki 16' Strip Canoe

    Quote Originally Posted by Todd Bradshaw View Post
    You may find that Gorilla Glue is tremendously obnoxious for stripping. Most folks are using something like Tightbond. My choice has always been Weldwood - good gap filling and sands very cleanly.
    Gorilla brand is making a carpenter's style adhesive in addition to the polyurethane stuff. If he's using that he's OK.' From the color, I'd say he has the former which is very much like the Titebond II product which I prefer. It isn't brittle when using a plane to fair the strips before sanding.

    The one place that I differ from Mr. Gillatrick's school of thought is the stems. He doesn't add inner or outer stems to his boats - just brings the strips together and glasses them - for simplicity of construction and light weight.. An outer stem of laminated hardwood always seems like a good idea to me for long term durability and improved crush resistance.
    "The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails."
    -William A. Ward



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    Default Re: Building the Wabnaki 16' Strip Canoe

    Quote Originally Posted by Todd Bradshaw View Post
    You may find that Gorilla Glue is tremendously obnoxious for stripping. Most folks are using something like Tightbond. My choice has always been Weldwood - good gap filling and sands very cleanly.
    Thanks for the tip Todd. Gorilla Glue is nasty. I was looking at Weldwood can you share more information about the exact type you used?

    Thanks,

    Ofer

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    Default Re: Building the Wabnaki 16' Strip Canoe

    It is a tan powder that you mix with water until it's about like pancake batter.

    http://www.amazon.com/00203-Weldwood...tic+resin+glue

    As far as stems go, most of our canoes were built with no stem pieces and the stems were glassed inside and out with multiple graduated layers of bias-cut strips of cloth (more layers down low on the outside for abrasion - in later years beefed up with slivers of Kevlar felt). Durability and crush resistance were never a problem. Once we started adding a piece of Kevlar about 3/8" by 6" to the stem bottoms lower stem abrasion was also stopped dead. Some folks like separate stem pieces, some don't, but durability of them really isn't an issue if they're built properly.

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    Default Re: Building the Wabnaki 16' Strip Canoe

    Quote Originally Posted by Canoez View Post
    Gorilla brand is making a carpenter's style adhesive in addition to the polyurethane stuff. If he's using that he's OK.' From the color, I'd say he has the former which is very much like the Titebond II product which I prefer. It isn't brittle when using a plane to fair the strips before sanding.

    The one place that I differ from Mr. Gillatrick's school of thought is the stems. He doesn't add inner or outer stems to his boats - just brings the strips together and glasses them - for simplicity of construction and light weight.. An outer stem of laminated hardwood always seems like a good idea to me for long term durability and improved crush resistance.
    Hi Canoez, thanks for sharing your experience. I am using the polyurethane version and it is expanding x3 hence the leeks, but it ends up like a foam so I hope it will be easy to sand.

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    Default Re: Building the Wabnaki 16' Strip Canoe

    Quote Originally Posted by Todd Bradshaw View Post
    It is a tan powder that you mix with water until it's about like pancake batter.

    http://www.amazon.com/00203-Weldwood...tic+resin+glue

    As far as stems go, most of our canoes were built with no stem pieces and the stems were glassed inside and out with multiple graduated layers of bias-cut strips of cloth (more layers down low on the outside for abrasion - in later years beefed up with slivers of Kevlar felt). Durability and crush resistance were never a problem. Once we started adding a piece of Kevlar about 3/8" by 6" to the stem bottoms lower stem abrasion was also stopped dead. Some folks like separate stem pieces, some don't, but durability of them really isn't an issue if they're built properly.
    Hi Todd,

    Thanks for sharing the link and the tips about the stem. It looks very interesting. I will give it a try.

    Ofer

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    Default Re: Building the Wabnaki 16' Strip Canoe

    I own Gil's book (second edition). Very well detailed, I will follow this link.

    My boat is almost completed. Next project, I'm thinking to build the ''Redbird'' very nice canoe from Ted Moore.

    Use the same glue as Gil says in the book.....

    For Gorilla glue, I've read it's not best for MARINE use.
    ''The work is teaching you the work'' : Bernard Moitessier.

    Single-handed Sailor, 1968-1969 Golden Globe Challenge, 1st around the world sailing race.

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    Default Re: Building the Wabnaki 16' Strip Canoe

    Quote Originally Posted by oferraz View Post
    Hi Canoez, thanks for sharing your experience. I am using the polyurethane version and it is expanding x3 hence the leeks, but it ends up like a foam so I hope it will be easy to sand.
    Ok - on my small screen the foaming polyurethane looked like dribbles of carpenter's glue.

    Yeah. Skip the Gorilla Polyurethane and go with either Todd's selection of Weldwood (2 part Ureaformaldehyde resin) or a more typical carpenter's glue - almost any will do- waterproof glue is not requred for the coreasthe fiberglass and epoxy skins will (MUST!) keep the water out of the core materials. As I said, I perfer the Titebond II, but have used some other varieties.
    "The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails."
    -William A. Ward



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    Default Re: Building the Wabnaki 16' Strip Canoe

    Quote Originally Posted by Todd Bradshaw View Post
    It is a tan powder that you mix with water until it's about like pancake batter.

    http://www.amazon.com/00203-Weldwood...tic+resin+glue

    As far as stems go, most of our canoes were built with no stem pieces and the stems were glassed inside and out with multiple graduated layers of bias-cut strips of cloth (more layers down low on the outside for abrasion - in later years beefed up with slivers of Kevlar felt). Durability and crush resistance were never a problem. Once we started adding a piece of Kevlar about 3/8" by 6" to the stem bottoms lower stem abrasion was also stopped dead. Some folks like separate stem pieces, some don't, but durability of them really isn't an issue if they're built properly.
    I built one with no inner and outer stems. Had a fairly high-energy impact into a sub-surface rock that wasn't visible. The glass survived with some damage, but didn't appear to have any intrusion into the core. However, the cedar crushed badly and didn't come back. The whole area was "spongy" when you pressed on it with a finger. Had to cut out a section of the bow, re-strip that area and re-glass.

    With that particular build, it was 6 oz cloth with epoxy. The cloth on the hull was trimmed at the edges of the stem and the stem was covered with a strip of bias cut 6 oz cloth. If I'd gone with a heavier cloth or another layer, I think it would have survived without the damage we saw.
    "The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails."
    -William A. Ward



  19. #19
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    Default Re: Building the Wabnaki 16' Strip Canoe

    With 6 oz. cloth we would generally cut the main cloth as close as we could get to the stem without trying to wrap it around and then use two layers of bias strips over the stem both inside and out. Then the lower section was beefed up outside with two or three more layers, graduated to have the maximum buildup on the bottom of the stem. The resin would lose some transparency with that sort of thickness, but Micmac stems were usually painted with a black stripe anyway, so it didn't show. Despite being that thick we found that just nosing up on the Canadian shores while tripping could wear surprisingly far into the layers in a week or two, but in a very small, localized area. That's when we started adding the little sliver of skid plate Kevlar, which ended the problem immediately and permanently.

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    Default Re: Building the Wabnaki 16' Strip Canoe

    Quote Originally Posted by sailcanoefan View Post
    I own Gil's book (second edition). Very well detailed, I will follow this link.

    My boat is almost completed. Next project, I'm thinking to build the ''Redbird'' very nice canoe from Ted Moore.

    Use the same glue as Gil says in the book.....

    For Gorilla glue, I've read it's not best for MARINE use.

    Hi sailcanoefan, thanks for following. I love your boat how far are you from finishing it?

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    Default Re: Building the Wabnaki 16' Strip Canoe

    Quote Originally Posted by Todd Bradshaw View Post
    With 6 oz. cloth we would generally cut the main cloth as close as we could get to the stem without trying to wrap it around and then use two layers of bias strips over the stem both inside and out. Then the lower section was beefed up outside with two or three more layers, graduated to have the maximum buildup on the bottom of the stem. The resin would lose some transparency with that sort of thickness, but Micmac stems were usually painted with a black stripe anyway, so it didn't show. Despite being that thick we found that just nosing up on the Canadian shores while tripping could wear surprisingly far into the layers in a week or two, but in a very small, localized area. That's when we started adding the little sliver of skid plate Kevlar, which ended the problem immediately and permanently.

    Hi Todd,

    Thanks for all the information. Can you attach a photo of the little sliver of skid plate Kevlar? I am interested to see where you located it and what size you used.

    Ofer

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    Default Re: Building the Wabnaki 16' Strip Canoe

    Quote Originally Posted by oferraz View Post
    Hi Todd,

    Thanks for all the information. Can you attach a photo of the little sliver of skid plate Kevlar? I am interested to see where you located it and what size you used.

    Ofer
    Google up "Skid Plate Kevlar" It is a Kevlar felt product that is widely available. You can buy it as pads only for about $20-30, or as a kit with adhesives for about $100. You'll already have epoxy, so you only need the skid plates.

    It's put on the "chin" of the bow (low) to deal with abraision mostly, but impacts as well.
    "The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails."
    -William A. Ward



  23. #23
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    Default Re: Building the Wabnaki 16' Strip Canoe

    I don't think I have any photos of it, but it is available here:
    Style #4580, $26 per yard, 40" wide
    http://sweetcomposites.com/Kevlar.html

    It looks like gold-ish chamois shirt fabric and is fairly thick. It's not the most beautiful stuff you ever saw, so you want to use it sparingly, and only where really needed. Unless you have built and used that boat design before, the best thing to do is to paddle your new boat for a while and see if your normal use tends to concentrate abrasion on any part of the stem. If so, you can go in and retro-fit a little bit over that area.

  24. #24
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    Default Re: Building the Wabnaki 16' Strip Canoe

    Another option to consider for the bow and stearn areas that get high wear and abuse is a replaceable foam block. I've had good luck with this method. If you take a hard hit in the bow the integrity of the boat is not compromised. It's cheap. It's easy to shape . This is Dow Pink home insulation foam board, when glassed looks beige not pink at all. Pine 1x seals the hull and the foam is just glued to the pine and glassed over .

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    Default Re: Building the Wabnaki 16' Strip Canoe

    Quote Originally Posted by Canoez View Post
    Google up "Skid Plate Kevlar" It is a Kevlar felt product that is widely available. You can buy it as pads only for about $20-30, or as a kit with adhesives for about $100. You'll already have epoxy, so you only need the skid plates.

    It's put on the "chin" of the bow (low) to deal with abraision mostly, but impacts as well.

    Thanks Canoez. Very helpful.

  26. #26
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    Default Re: Building the Wabnaki 16' Strip Canoe

    Quote Originally Posted by Todd Bradshaw View Post
    I don't think I have any photos of it, but it is available here:
    Style #4580, $26 per yard, 40" wide
    http://sweetcomposites.com/Kevlar.html

    It looks like gold-ish chamois shirt fabric and is fairly thick. It's not the most beautiful stuff you ever saw, so you want to use it sparingly, and only where really needed. Unless you have built and used that boat design before, the best thing to do is to paddle your new boat for a while and see if your normal use tends to concentrate abrasion on any part of the stem. If so, you can go in and retro-fit a little bit over that area.
    Thanks again for all the help Todd

  27. #27
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    Default Re: Building the Wabnaki 16' Strip Canoe

    Quote Originally Posted by openboater View Post
    Another option to consider for the bow and stearn areas that get high wear and abuse is a replaceable foam block. I've had good luck with this method. If you take a hard hit in the bow the integrity of the boat is not compromised. It's cheap. It's easy to shape . This is Dow Pink home insulation foam board, when glassed looks beige not pink at all. Pine 1x seals the hull and the foam is just glued to the pine and glassed over .
    Hi openboater, thanks for sharing. This is very interesting. How often do you find yourself replacing the foam part?

  28. #28
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    Default Re: Building the Wabnaki 16' Strip Canoe

    I've re-glassed spots, but my wife has been paddling this boat for 15 yrs , she's a gentler paddler than I so I've never had to re-foam it.

  29. #29
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    Default Re: Building the Wabnaki 16' Strip Canoe

    A lot of progress this weekend. It start to look like a Canoe







    Thanks everyone for the tips and help.

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    Default Re: Building the Wabnaki 16' Strip Canoe

    I found the regular gorilla glue planned off no problem. Great work, looking good.

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    Default Re: Building the Wabnaki 16' Strip Canoe

    Quote Originally Posted by Hreoaj View Post
    I found the regular gorilla glue planned off no problem. Great work, looking good.
    Thanks Hreoaj. I decided to keep going with the gorilla glue at this point and not replace in the middle. I hope it will be easy to get it off.

  32. #32
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    Default Re: Building the Wabnaki 16' Strip Canoe

    Gorilla's polyurethane adhesive is fairly low strength and brittle. You
    may find that strips come loose. If they do, repair the section before any fairing or sanding as you'll find one side will "push in" resulting in a thin section adjacent to a thick one. DAMHIKT.
    "The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails."
    -William A. Ward



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    Default Re: Building the Wabnaki 16' Strip Canoe

    Just FYI, you also want to be sure that you have really removed all the stuff from those drips from the strip faces when you are done with the planning and/or sanding of the surface. In general, substances don't soak into wood nearly as far as most folks think they do, but when you varnish, fiberglass or epoxy coat a piece of wood it changes color somewhat, as everyone is aware. Spots where the glue residue wasn't quite totally removed can leave blotchy spots in the new color once they're over-coated with resin.

    Seeing the wood smooth, clean and fair for the first time once the sanding is done is one of the coolest parts of building a stripper. Another is seeing the color come out once it's got resin on it. You don't want any ugly surprises. I did one once and used an off-brand of staples. The staples for the gun were stuck together into loadable strips with some sort of green lacquer or varnish. Once the hull was all stripped up, I pulled the staples, sanded the wood and it looked great. However, when I started the glassing and was waiting for the first coat to harden, green stuff started coming out of the staple holes. The resin was dissolving tiny bits of green lacquer that had been left down inside the holes when the staples were pulled out. Pretty soon I had the entire blonde-colored Sitka spruce hull covered with 1/4" diameter green spots at every staple hole. I was not a happy camper. I went ahead and finished the glassing, figuring "Oh well, I guess I'm gonna have to paint this one." For some reason though, within a couple of weeks all the green had faded away (maybe UV on green aniline dye, who knows?) and I was able to finish the boat normally. Just to be sure though, I threw away the rest of those staples.

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    Default Re: Building the Wabnaki 16' Strip Canoe

    Quote Originally Posted by Todd Bradshaw View Post
    Just FYI, you also want to be sure that you have really removed all the stuff from those drips from the strip faces when you are done with the planning and/or sanding of the surface. In general, substances don't soak into wood nearly as far as most folks think they do, but when you varnish, fiberglass or epoxy coat a piece of wood it changes color somewhat, as everyone is aware. Spots where the glue residue wasn't quite totally removed can leave blotchy spots in the new color once they're over-coated with resin.

    Seeing the wood smooth, clean and fair for the first time once the sanding is done is one of the coolest parts of building a stripper. Another is seeing the color come out once it's got resin on it. You don't want any ugly surprises. I did one once and used an off-brand of staples. The staples for the gun were stuck together into loadable strips with some sort of green lacquer or varnish. Once the hull was all stripped up, I pulled the staples, sanded the wood and it looked great. However, when I started the glassing and was waiting for the first coat to harden, green stuff started coming out of the staple holes. The resin was dissolving tiny bits of green lacquer that had been left down inside the holes when the staples were pulled out. Pretty soon I had the entire blonde-colored Sitka spruce hull covered with 1/4" diameter green spots at every staple hole. I was not a happy camper. I went ahead and finished the glassing, figuring "Oh well, I guess I'm gonna have to paint this one." For some reason though, within a couple of weeks all the green had faded away (maybe UV on green aniline dye, who knows?) and I was able to finish the boat normally. Just to be sure though, I threw away the rest of those staples.

    Thanks Todd. I will pay attention to that. In general I decided to use minimum staples. Only on the molds. Between the molds I am using masking-tape to hold the strips together.

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    Default Re: Building the Wabnaki 16' Strip Canoe

    Few more strips. With each strip you are getting better and develop your own techniques... But just when you think that you master it, the boat shape is changing and there is something new to learn. Its fun



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