Welsford "Saturday Night Special"

[keyhavenpotterer]

A new design from John Welsford is always going to be a treat. So, let's start with a couple of drawings for you to peruse. She can be built in either 14'8" length or 13'10" for the Texas 200 which has a longer than 14' registration issue. Sail area is 103 sq ft, weight approx 90 kgs. Beam 5'5".






Designed as a quick to build, quick sailing Raid design. She should be a fun day sailer with her planing ability.

Duckworks were planning a group build this year which has been moved back I understand to 2016 for the 2016 Texas 200 to raise money for charity. John Welsford will be sailing in one of the boats.

http://www.duckworksbbs.com/classes/welsford/papwbf/

Here's John's thoughts on sailing the design on the Texas 200.

"The T200 being legs of 30 or 40 miles with a very reliable strong quartering tailwind we’re looking at 4 to 6 hours per day in this boat, I’d expect that shape underwater to run at 8 to 10 knots in those conditions, and the boat from which this shape was developed ( AWOL) has been timed at 16 knots, still controllable, steering accurately and not wanting to go bow down and broach. This boat is more full above the waterline forward to further control that and I’d expect the crew to be on shore, tent up, sitting comfortably with beers in hand when the rest of the fleet come in each day."

So, if a builder is looking for high fun and adventure for least cost in time and materials then SNS will be worth looking at. We often see posts about wanting a fun planing dinghy design. Again looks like SNS can meet that requirement.

The boat John will be sailing is in build just now. Pictures from the builder Phil McCowin.

Jig, bottom and kit of parts,




Assemble bulkheads etc



She is very promising as an additional choice for those wanting an easy build, lower cost, maximum simplicity and a fun design. Her weight and size mean single handing in, out and on the water will be fun, yet forgiving when sailing and capable of carrying crew and gear on longer events.

Brian

[Peerie Maa]

Tasty.
With a high aspect ratio sail she should go like stink

[Hwyl]

Nice looking boat, unfortunate name.

[PeterSibley]

How about a ''Welsford GIS''.... for those that prefer a GIS with a little more flare ? and I like her, fast too I'd say.

[keyhavenpotterer]

Did not realise the name might not work? She is a second version, nearly called Sunday Night Special. Perhaps something else?

Brian

[keyhavenpotterer]

Tasty.
With a high aspect ratio sail she should go like stink

our local racing lugs are high peaked and allow room for a forestay and side stays. Easy to do in Dyneema, add loads of performance upwind. Much higher down haul loads possible.

Brian

[Hwyl]

Jack Holt called his Solo update "Streaker". Streaking turned out to be a short lived fad, and a great boat was not as successful as it ought to have been.


Here in the States "saturday Night Special" has very negative connotations.

[Jackett]

Boat looks nice, rudder looks awful. No balance area at all - in fact the rake of the leading edge puts the centre of effort way behind the line of the pintles. Even a well balanced dinghy is going to have a very heavy helm (anyone here sailed a Bosun dinghy) - not something you want for 6 hours at a time.

Like the boat though - very tempted to build one to teach my kids to sail - looks perfect for pottering around the Solent.

[kenjamin]

Looks like a lot of bang for the buck. I like it. However, I'm not too fond of the rudder either. It looks like the entire thickness of the rudder cheeks will be dragging in the water flow. Seems like that could be avoided somehow to only have the rudder blade thickness in the flow. Other than that, it looks like a lot of pure fun for the money. John does great work and I love the heck out of my SCAMP.

[keyhavenpotterer]

Boat looks nice, rudder looks awful. No balance area at all - in fact the rake of the leading edge puts the centre of effort way behind the line of the pintles. Even a well balanced dinghy is going to have a very heavy helm (anyone here sailed a Bosun dinghy) - not something you want for 6 hours at a time.

Like the boat though - very tempted to build one to teach my kids to sail - looks perfect for pottering around the Solent.

Here's a Wayfarer rudder. Best boat most balanced I ever sailed. Any angle of heel no issues. Balance is based on hull form, sail CoE. You can sail a Wayferer right around Keyhaven out through Little Hawkers and right back down the main entrance without a rudder. She is so well designed.



Rudder is is in actual fact a little unusual. She has a horizontal end plate at the bottom of the stock. This is for the Texas 200 where a lot of sailing is in very shallow waters.
Glad you like her. Would be petect for the Solent, hope you build her, this rudder or another.Perhaps a stock out of the water, normal rudder for all the none Texas 200 builders. Please can I have a sail in her if you do build.

[Bill Hubbard]

I think the connotation is dependent on generation (and location) in the US. I grew up when most of the cheap imports were banned under "Saturday Night Special" laws in Southern New England, and I wouldn't have a problem with the name. It still sails fine the rest of the week, too.

[John Meachen]

Here's a Wayfarer rudder. Best boat most balanced I ever sailed. Any angle of heel no issues. Balance is based on hull form, sail CoE. You can sail a Wayferer right around Keyhaven out through Little Hawkers and right back down the main entrance without a rudder. She is so well designed.



Rudder is is in actual fact a little unusual. She has a horizontal end plate at the bottom of the stock. This is for the Texas 200 where a lot of sailing is in very shallow waters.
Glad you like her. Would be petect for the Solent, hope you build her, this rudder or another.Perhaps a stock out of the water, normal rudder for all the none Texas 200 builders. Please can I have a sail in her if you do build.

Apologies for the thread drift-the Wayfarer rudder was like that when originally designed.In the seventies the outline of the top of the rudder blade was changed to allow the leading edge to be vertical.

[skaraborgcraft]

Nice looking boat, unfortunate name.

Same in Sweden with conotations. However, both are supposed to be fun huh?

[PeterSibley]

Looks like a lot of bang for the buck. I like it. However, I'm not too fond of the rudder either. It looks like the entire thickness of the rudder cheeks will be dragging in the water flow. Seems like that could be avoided somehow to only have the rudder blade thickness in the flow. Other than that, it looks like a lot of pure fun for the money. John does great work and I love the heck out of my SCAMP.

A pretty easy fix .

[keyhavenpotterer]

Let's assume the plans can show a normal stock out of the water rudder and the unliked Texas 200 one. Problem solved. Every other rudder I have looked at designed by John has the stock clear of the water, so no problem to show two versions I would assume.

Name wise, any ideas for John? Some sort of Cruiser Racer theme. Lightweight. Quick build. High fun return on investment.

Boat wise I like her big buoyancy tanks forward and aft.
I like her simple one sail rig.
I know a fast open water boat needs a foredeck and coaming to divert water off the foredeck and back into the sea.
I know I need a centreboard and a lifting rudder in the marshes.
I Like her big open cockpit. Reckon there is room to sleep either side of the cockpit.
There seems to be a strong correlation between boats that have a centre flat plank keel and boats that are fast.
Plank keel is much cheaper to build without all that expensive keel wood.
Plank keel nice and level when boat is on the rollers, beach or hard when camping in it on a shoreline.
Light enough for an old guy like me to pull her up,out of the water on a trolley.
I think she will handle well, handle well in strong winds, and give pleasure in her speed on those lovely breezy days when a bit of fast sailing rejuvenates the soul.

Brian

[rgthom]

Every other rudder I have looked at designed by John has the stock clear of the water

Walkabout's rudder cheeks are immersed a few inches. Most builders (me included) thought they had made some sort of building error. John finally chimed in on the builders group to say it was designed that way, so when the main blade is raised there is still a small rudder to aid tracking while rowing.

[allisonatx]

Name wise, any ideas for John? Some sort of Cruiser Racer theme. Lightweight. Quick build. High fun return on investment.

Boat wise I like her big buoyancy tanks forward and aft.
I like her simple one sail rig.
I know a fast open water boat needs a foredeck and coaming to divert water off the foredeck and back into the sea.
I know I need a centreboard and a lifting rudder in the marshes.
I Like her big open cockpit. Reckon there is room to sleep either side of the cockpit.
There seems to be a strong correlation between boats that have a centre flat plank keel and boats that are fast.
Plank keel is much cheaper to build without all that expensive keel wood.
Plank keel nice and level when boat is on the rollers, beach or hard when camping in it on a shoreline.
Light enough for an old guy like me to pull her up,out of the water on a trolley.
I think she will handle well, handle well in strong winds, and give pleasure in her speed on those lovely breezy days when a bit of fast sailing rejuvenates the soul.

Brian

Name-wise, I get it. I think it's meant to bring to mind a little hint of the wild side of life. An air of slightly risky abandon...A bit of a dare, maybe.
I've been intrigued with this design since it was suggested as a possibility for the 200. I think it's a great looking boat and I think it'll be a fast, dependable ride for the more adventurous minded in the Texas 200 demographic.
The potential problems I see arise from the notion that it's meant to be a 2 person boat. For a day-sail or even an overnight camping outing, that would be fine. For 8 hours on the water 5 or 6 days running and carrying all necessary supplies, it looks much more like a solo boat to me. There's just not a lot of space to sit for two people (I've only done one Texas 200, but I can attest that comfortable sitting positions are an extremely important commodity). There's very reasonable stowage, but camping accommodations for 2 can get a little bulky. Not to mention the weight of food and water for 2 people over 6 days - that's bound to push it down on it's lines a little and knock a knot off the predicted speed.
I may be dead wrong, but I think it's asking a lot of a 2-crew to live out of this boat for a week and spend many hours a day with few options other than alternating between hiking on a small side deck and plunking down on the cockpit floor. All that being said, I could definitely see loading up solo and blowin' and goin' on this thing!

[Autonomous]

Oh man, I can just hear the water hissing by the hull.
I'd like to hear John's thoughts on the rudder.
BTW, the name is a good one, risky etc.

[allisonatx]

Regarding the rudder, it seems like I saw a drawing (the drawings and plans have been evolving) of the rudder that involved a little end plate action on the rudder cheeks?
Also, the original "quick build" idea seems to have been mitigated in the later version of the plans. The current boat seems to be relatively simple by Welsford's standards, but not anything like most boats that are thought of as quick and easy construction (Michalak, et al). In the original description, a possible fly-in beach build was part of the concept. I think the boat evolved quite a ways beyond that. It's a pretty sophisticated boat with a correspondingly complex build.

[davebrown]

I LOVE the name. My grandfather often had one in his belt, at night: an OwlsHead 38. I do not see plans for sale anywhere, though FB posts say they are available....

[keyhavenpotterer]

Interestingly Walkabout also has the rudder stock at the waterline in the GA drawing. For SNS as an adventure dinghy, the steering in shallow water requirement is a must.

[keyhavenpotterer]

Just to try and show the rudder design a little more clearly, in this picture of the components, the plate with a slot in it sitting on top of the rudder blade, is the end plate that sits horizontally at the bottom of the rudder stock. So definitely a shallow water design. The second cheek plate of the rudder stock not shown here.



And the drawing showing the plate attached to the bottom of the stock.

Brian

[ShagRock]

Nice design! What's in a name? Long ago in days of old when it was more than a few miles to walk by land around the bay to the other side, tired young men from a long week fishing at sea got in their little sail and oar punt and went straight across the water to their love on the other side. That was indeed worthy of the name 'Saturday night special'.

[PeterSibley]

Interestingly Walkabout also has the rudder stock at the waterline in the GA drawing. For SNS as an adventure dinghy, the steering in shallow water requirement is a must.

It's a minor modification to make anyway, I built a kick up rudder on JIM, not as drawn
..

[john welsford]

Note that the first one, the proof of concept hull, was built in three days. Its about as simple as it can be for a boat of this general shape. I wanted performance, but cheap. Cheap being both in terms of labour content and materials.
But the group who wanted to fly in and race then give the boat away or do an Andrew with it ( bonfire on the beach) and take the expensive bits home again did not eventuate.
Then the idea of a group build with the aim of using them as a cancer research fundraiser came up, and I decided that the difference in labour and materials cost between a one shot disposable boat and a boat that would be good enough to use for a number of events was not a lot, hence the boat in its present form.

John Welsford

Regarding the rudder, it seems like I saw a drawing (the drawings and plans have been evolving) of the rudder that involved a little end plate action on the rudder cheeks?
Also, the original "quick build" idea seems to have been mitigated in the later version of the plans. The current boat seems to be relatively simple by Welsford's standards, but not anything like most boats that are thought of as quick and easy construction (Michalak, et al). In the original description, a possible fly-in beach build was part of the concept. I think the boat evolved quite a ways beyond that. It's a pretty sophisticated boat with a correspondingly complex build.

[john welsford]

Oh man, I can just hear the water hissing by the hull.
I'd like to hear John's thoughts on the rudder.
BTW, the name is a good one, risky etc.

The Texas 200 is run in unique waters, there are miles of very shallow waters to trap those who make even the slightest navigation mistake. I've not been on the course but every account of sailing in the T200 reports being aground or walking for considerable distances towing the boat through very shallow water. Another regular report is damaged rudders.
The ability to steer the boat in ankle deep water would save a lot of walking so the stock or rudder head is extended to the same draft as the keg, and an end plate fitted which will greatly improve the rudders effectiveness in skinny water.
Note that the extra drag of this setup is so slight as to be of no consequence.

John Welsford

[brucemoffatt]

Are those two drawings the only hard info publicly available at the moment?

[john welsford]

There have been a dozen or so Puddleducks complete the course. Now, a standard side tank Puddleduck has a load space about 3ft wide, 6ft long and 10inches deep. Thats got to carry not only all the provisions, tent and cooking gear, spare clothing and spare parts, but the skipper has to fit in there as well, and they do that without much trouble.
SNS will carry all the gear needed, note that the big air tanks at each end are also cargo spaces, and they're big, over half a cubic metre between them, plus the space at the front end of the centercase is available for two waterproof hikers packs or equivalent.
The boat, even at its shorter Texas Tax Free length is designed to carry around 600 lbs, thats two guys plus 100 lbs each and if they can't survive for five days on that, I"d be very surprised.
There is a considerable variety of seating positions plus the cockpit floor is set up with a backrest strap and cushion as an "off watch station".
Comfort is relative, and people who have sailed the course in a Puddleduck will find this luxurious, but people who are used to much larger boats will find it spartan. Its not intended for everyone.

John Welsford

Name-wise, I get it. I think it's meant to bring to mind a little hint of the wild side of life. An air of slightly risky abandon...A bit of a dare, maybe.
I've been intrigued with this design since it was suggested as a possibility for the 200. I think it's a great looking boat and I think it'll be a fast, dependable ride for the more adventurous minded in the Texas 200 demographic.
The potential problems I see arise from the notion that it's meant to be a 2 person boat. For a day-sail or even an overnight camping outing, that would be fine. For 8 hours on the water 5 or 6 days running and carrying all necessary supplies, it looks much more like a solo boat to me. There's just not a lot of space to sit for two people (I've only done one Texas 200, but I can attest that comfortable sitting positions are an extremely important commodityThe ). There's very reasonable stowage, but camping accommodations for 2 can get a little bulky. Not to mention the weight of food and water for 2 people over 6 days - that's bound to push it down on it's lines a little and knock a knot off the predicted speed.
I may be dead wrong, but I think it's asking a lot of a 2-crew to live out of this boat for a week and spend many hours a day with few options other than alternating between hiking on a small side deck and plunking down on the cockpit floor. All that being said, I could definitely see loading up solo and blowin' and goin' on this thing!

[john welsford]

Boat looks nice, rudder looks awful. No balance area at all - in fact the rake of the leading edge puts the centre of effort way behind the line of the pintles. Even a well balanced dinghy is going to have a very heavy helm (anyone here sailed a Bosun dinghy) - not something you want for 6 hours at a time.

Like the boat though - very tempted to build one to teach my kids to sail - looks perfect for pottering around the Solent.

The test boat is very light on the helm, no problem there.
For those who are not going to sail in such skinny water there is no reason why a conventionally shaped rudder assembly would not work just fine. The one shown is for a particular situation that may not apply to other areas.
John Welsford

[keyhavenpotterer]

Are those two drawings the only hard info publicly available at the moment?

Think publicly available plans are very close. 8 sheets and build manual are PDF'd ready to ship, think just one sheet with the full size templates for transom and all bulkheads plus skeg and stem to PDF. Think Duckworks will be listing them in PDF download or printed.

Brian

[john welsford]

Within a week, just got to get the latest updates drawn in and the plans scanned.
John Welsford

Think publicly available plans are very close. 8 sheets and build manual are PDF'd ready to ship, think just one sheet with the full size templates for transom and all bulkheads plus skeg and stem to PDF. Think Duckworks will be listing them in PDF download or printed.

Brian

[kenjamin]

Thanks for the explanation on the rudder, John. How many sheets of ply are we talking about for the Saturday Night Special?

[allisonatx]

...
Comfort is relative, and people who have sailed the course in a Puddleduck will find this luxurious...

John Welsford

Quite so!
And it'll make the daily mileage in far less time than the ducks, no doubt.

[davebrown]

I am quite excited to see the plans. Will this be a metal centerboard?

[john welsford]

No, this ones layers of plywood laminated with a slug of lead in the tip to keep it down.

John Welsford

I am quite excited to see the plans. Will this be a metal centerboard?