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Thread: 24' Len Randell Sloop Rebuild

  1. #1
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    Default 24' Len Randell Sloop Rebuild

    Hi everyone,

    I spend a heap of time looking at pictures on this forum and they have helped out a lot. So I thought I'd add some of my own.

    Im rebuilding Ranee, a 24' Len Randell designed sloop (the original was called "Rugged"). It is taking me quite a while, but I'm getting there. It's been a huge learning curve but I've learnt a heap. The hardest thing about the whole project is keeping (or restoring) the shape of the boat. I've had to replace every single frame, nearly every one was broken. I wish I had more of the earlier photos but I lost a heap when my computer imploded. I am now working on the few remaining planks that need replacing and then the deck framing.

    Heres the link https://goo.gl/photos/vivYiVgfLRDfqg4i6

    Cheers

    Kevin

  2. #2
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    Default Re: 24' Len Randell Sloop Rebuild

    Hi Kevin, you have been busy ! A 24' Randell is a lovely little boat and the first keel boat I sailed on . This is the one, built by a friend of mine about 37 years ago in Brisbane and recently found by him and bought back ...... and still in excellent condition .

    He even sailed it from Brisbane to Honiara.

    I wish you joy of yours and welcome to the forum.

    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  3. #3
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    Default Re: 24' Len Randell Sloop Rebuild

    Kevin, just looked at your pics, and all I can say, is ... WOW! That is astonishing! You're almost building an entirely new boat, from the looks of it!

    Glad to see a Randell rescued. Great designer.

    Regards,
    John.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: 24' Len Randell Sloop Rebuild

    Now that is a massive restoration! Excellent looking work and a truly beautiful boat. Please keep us up to date.
    I was born on a wooden boat that I built myself.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: 24' Len Randell Sloop Rebuild

    Good thorough job. You should have been here all along showing others how it is done!
    bruce

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    Default Re: 24' Len Randell Sloop Rebuild

    New design for me, very nice hull lines. Any ideas on the weight of the ballast casting? Thats a whole heap of work to undertake, good on yer!

  7. #7
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    Default Re: 24' Len Randell Sloop Rebuild

    Quote Originally Posted by skaraborgcraft View Post
    New design for me, very nice hull lines. Any ideas on the weight of the ballast casting? Thats a whole heap of work to undertake, good on yer!
    About 3000 pound IIRC. Quite a lot like a mini Vertue .
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  8. #8
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    Default Re: 24' Len Randell Sloop Rebuild

    Cheers guys, yeah it's been a lot of work so far but we're getting there.

    Yes the ballast is around 900kg (3000lbs). Mines probably a little lighter now all the rust is chipped off!

    EDIT: I meant 2000lbs!
    Last edited by kforth; 08-21-2015 at 05:33 PM. Reason: Made a typo

  9. #9
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    Default Re: 24' Len Randell Sloop Rebuild

    Iron ? Interesting, the ballast on the one i posted a photo of has 3000 pound of lead.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  10. #10
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    Default Re: 24' Len Randell Sloop Rebuild

    This is a scary photo Kevin!

    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  11. #11
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    Default Re: 24' Len Randell Sloop Rebuild

    Yeah Peter, I think the plans show for drawings for both lead and cast iron ballast, I'd have to check them to confirm.

    I also have a lot of inside ballast (at least 250kgs worth). I would rather that it was outside then inside.

    Whoever built Ranee wasn't scared to change things. Her overall length is 23' instead of 24'. The location of the mast is also slightly different. And the keel was made crooked, the starboard side about 1/4" higher then port!

  12. #12
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    Default Re: 24' Len Randell Sloop Rebuild

    This is a scary photo Kevin!
    Those were the two best ones!

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    Default Re: 24' Len Randell Sloop Rebuild

    Fifteen or twenty percent internal ballast on a vessel of this type is a good thing .
    It may allow you to ,
    Get off a reef someday by jettisoning it,
    Or, it makes the motion of the vessel easier at sea ,
    Or , it keeps her still a sailboat for when THE FREAKIN KEEL FALLS OFF!!!!

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    Default Re: 24' Len Randell Sloop Rebuild

    Quote Originally Posted by kforth View Post
    Yeah Peter, I think the plans show for drawings for both lead and cast iron ballast, I'd have to check them to confirm.

    I also have a lot of inside ballast (at least 250kgs worth). I would rather that it was outside then inside.

    Whoever built Ranee wasn't scared to change things. Her overall length is 23' instead of 24'. The location of the mast is also slightly different. And the keel was made crooked, the starboard side about 1/4" higher then port!
    I'm pretty sure my friend's boat is 23 foot too. It's a damn good design.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  15. #15
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    Default Re: 24' Len Randell Sloop Rebuild

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterSibley View Post
    About 3000 pound IIRC. Quite a lot like a mini Vertue .
    That was my first impression on seeing it.

  16. #16
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    Default Re: 24' Len Randell Sloop Rebuild

    Hey All,

    Spent a few days working on Ranee. Got a couple of planks fitted. Had to scarf the one one under the stringer because the stringer was already installed, making a butt block rather difficult. It all turned out ok, even though my spiling was slightly out on the first plank (out of practice). A little edge set and she went in.

    Pulled the stern tube out (the threads are chooched). I will probably replace it with a fibreglass one. I'm not sure whether to leave it out until after the boat is launched, then install it later so when the timber swells it doesn't split.

    Fitted the first transom plank. I hope it doesn't leak. So many angles/joints to get right.














  17. #17
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    Default Re: 24' Len Randell Sloop Rebuild

    Beautiful! Cheers!

  18. #18
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    Default Re: 24' Len Randell Sloop Rebuild

    That's a very neat bit of work Kevin !
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  19. #19
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    Default Re: 24' Len Randell Sloop Rebuild

    I've spent a couple more days working on Ranee. Still replacing u/s planking. It seems to never end but at least my fitting is getting better.


    I usually make a template for the plank end fit to the stem.


    Once its good I clamp and saw in situ.


    Once the plank is in I mark the bevels freehand, using my fingernail as a guide. I know it isn't very "traditional" or professional to use a pen but i find it 20x easier to see.


    I mark the whole plank at once then plane back to the marks to get the desired bevel. I reinstall it to check everything and if its all good i fasten it in.

    EDIT: Although it doesn't look it, I leave the plank a little proud of the other planks so I can plane it back fair and remove the thicknesser chatter marks.



    I brought this little diesel off gumtree for $200 a year or so ago. When I first tried to start it, it screamed its head off and the only way to stop it was to block the air intake. Only now have I got around to taking a look at it. The governor was seized up, hence the crazy revving. I put it back together and now it purrs like a kitten.
    Last edited by kforth; 10-11-2015 at 07:37 AM. Reason: Added some more detail

  20. #20
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    Default Re: 24' Len Randell Sloop Rebuild

    Some more photos


    The culprit!








  21. #21
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    Default Re: 24' Len Randell Sloop Rebuild

    Fingernail.. There is another "hand tool"!

  22. #22
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    Default Re: 24' Len Randell Sloop Rebuild

    Kevin, I'm not sure if you ave told us already but is the planking all jarah ? The backbone too?

    How is she holding up to being out of the water ? Shrinkage in the planks and backbone structure ? How long has she been out of the water so far ?

    You are doing a brilliant job, I wish I had half your skills !
    Last edited by PeterSibley; 10-11-2015 at 08:00 PM.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
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  23. #23
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    Default

    Amazing to see such a thorough eebuiild of a classic boat, I must confess to being quite interested as to if you have had to do anything to stop the keel and or planks from drying out. Keep up the great work

    Sent from my HTC_PO582 using Tapatalk
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    Iain Oughtred - Macgregor Canoe - 15 foot

  24. #24
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    Default Re: 24' Len Randell Sloop Rebuild

    Nice work Kevin !



    Much work replacing all those ribs , and done beautifully too..

  25. #25
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    Default Re: 24' Len Randell Sloop Rebuild

    Hey Peter,

    The planking and backbone are jarrah and the frames are karri. When I brought it, it had been out of the water for a long time, I'm not sure how long but at least a few years. Jarrah tends to shrink like crazy if it dries out too much and Ranee is no exception (although I have seen a lot worse). When it comes time to launch I will soak it with a sprinkler for a couple weeks before caulking and painting.

    Jarrah is good timber but it isn't as stable as cedar or teak etc. and I think as the planking gets older it swells considerably, putting a lot of stress in tension on the frames. If any of the frames are in bad shape the planks can swell such that if it ever dries out again the seams will be bigger. This problem is worsened if frames are sistered after they've been broken for a while. This is what happened to Ranee. So when I was replacing the frames I used straps to pull the planking back together in the worst spots. Crude I know, but it works. I also had to pull the stringers up to the diagonally opposite topside to close the planking at the turn of the bilge.

    Purri, karri is even worse then jarrah in regards to stability, I only used it for the frames because it bends ok and is what nearly every H28 on the swan river has. Karri also doesn't glue well and is not as rot resistant as jarrah. If I was going to do any framing again, I would be tempted to try Jarrah.

  26. #26
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    Default Re: 24' Len Randell Sloop Rebuild

    Nice work Ken ! Raced against "Rugged" and some sisterships back in the early '70's in Div 3 on the River in a van de Stadt Juno . Always thought Len's 'Rugged' design looked just like an H24 ( or 23 as applicable). Think "Rugged" might have even done a Mandurah or Bunbury Race in the day. Of course the tum 'Haze' and 30 square Joyous with open cockpits, pumped their way south and back then in the days of the mighty battles between Eunamara, Starfire, Panamuna etc.
    Cheers from Martin B.
    Mandurah, Western Australia
    mcbunny09@gmail.com

  27. #27
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    Default Re: 24' Len Randell Sloop Rebuild

    Thanks for the reply Kevin, interesting comments as I've occasionally looked at dry hulls but shied off at the thought of all those opening backbone timbers ... but it looks as if you have things nicely under control.

    For interest sake tallowwood or spotted gum would be a normal backbone over here on the East coast and spotted gum for frames. The boat in the photo I posted has pressure impregnated hoop pine planking and is perfect 45 years after launching.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  28. #28
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    Default Re: 24' Len Randell Sloop Rebuild

    Quote Originally Posted by kforth View Post
    Jarrah is good timber but it isn't as stable as cedar or teak etc. and I think as the planking gets older it swells considerably, putting a lot of stress in tension on the frames. If any of the frames are in bad shape the planks can swell such that if it ever dries out again the seams will be bigger. This problem is worsened if frames are sistered after they've been broken for a while.
    Hi Kevin, that sounds very like what I saw when I briefly considered taking on a Randell 28 (photos here: http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...8-Carvel-Yatch ) Note the sisters, and broken sisters.


    Quote Originally Posted by kforth View Post
    Karri also doesn't glue well
    Kevin, is this an issue over time, or is it something you have found when actually gluing? We've been gluing up laminated sisters for our boat, from Karri strips, on the advice of local shipwrights. It's going OK so far: http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...49#post4649749

    Should we be worried?
    Last edited by Aquinian; 10-16-2015 at 03:54 AM.

  29. #29
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    Default Re: 24' Len Randell Sloop Rebuild

    Lovely work, Kevin. Congratulations on such a hard slog but producing such wonderful results.

    This designer isn't as well-known as he mightg be, in my view. There are some pictures of one of his thirty-footers on this page, and the common design influence between the various vessels is evident.

    Mike
    Visit us to see how we help people complete classic boats authentically.

  30. #30
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    Default Re: 24' Len Randell Sloop Rebuild

    Hey Aquinian,

    That 28 footer is a lovely looking little boat but I agree with what most the others said. She would have to be reframed and the seams pulled back together. To reframe it you would have to pull the deck and sheer clamp and bilge stringers. You could leave the clamp and stringers in but they are a pita to work around and would probably be quicker to take them out. Also, once you get her out of the water, you will keep finding more and more problems. The guys are right, a really good survey from someone you trust is crucial but, as I found out the hard way, when you spend a couple of months working on/looking at it you will find a lot more then they can in the short time they inspect it. I'm sure you are experiencing this with your Athur Bishop design.

    As for gluing Karri, I have heard mixed reports (which is bad in itself). Personally I have not experienced any failures but I did do some testing after I heard this and found that it definately doesn't glue as well as Jarrah. All the frames in Ranee are Karri and about half of them are laminated. I used west system mostly and I did a few with weldwood (I want to see how that holds up). If you have confidence in your shipwright and he/she says it's fine, I'd go with it. There is so much heresay/opinions around wooden boats and glues and timber species and paints and almost everything that sometimes things can get confusing very quickly.

    If I was going to do it again, I'd use Jarrah, just to be safe. Or steam in solid frames.

    Cheers Mike, it is a hard slog but I'm chipping away at it.

  31. #31
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    Default Re: 24' Len Randell Sloop Rebuild

    Quote Originally Posted by kforth View Post
    As for gluing Karri, I have heard mixed reports (which is bad in itself). Personally I have not experienced any failures but I did do some testing after I heard this and found that it definately doesn't glue as well as Jarrah. All the frames in Ranee are Karri and about half of them are laminated. I used west system mostly and I did a few with weldwood (I want to see how that holds up). If you have confidence in your shipwright and he/she says it's fine, I'd go with it. There is so much heresay/opinions around wooden boats and glues and timber species and paints and almost everything that sometimes things can get confusing very quickly.

    If I was going to do it again, I'd use Jarrah, just to be safe. Or steam in solid frames.
    Hi Kevin,

    Thanks for the input. My side decks at toward the stern have to come off at some point anyway, so I am thinking of steaming in new frames for the rear third or so of the hull. As you've noticed, however, Karri seems to have been the choice timber for frames in WA. I think it's more flexible than Jarrah, which would explain that. The rest we'll sister with our laminated Karri and hope for the best.

    Our original ribs are all dry laminated, or perhaps originally glued but the glue's largely failed. This looks to have been common here also.

    Cheers,
    John.

  32. #32
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    Default Re: 24' Len Randell Sloop Rebuild

    Hey John,

    Like you've seen, I think it was pretty common to steam multiple layers of Karri in without bothering to glue it. I'm not a big fan of this. I don't think Karri is bendier then Jarrah, if anything the opposite. Also if you look on all the wood species websites, usually jarrah is listed to have better steam bending qualities then Karri. I'm not sure why Karri is used but I assume there must be a reason.. The only things I can think of is that it is easy to get hold of green and it's cheaper.

    For my next project I am going to do some testing/bending comparisons. I'll let you know how it goes when I get around to it.

    If anyone knows why WA boatbuilders use Karri for frames/ribs instead of Jarrah, feel free to learn us

  33. #33
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    Default Re: 24' Len Randell Sloop Rebuild

    I'll ask one or two shipwrights and let you know what they say, Kevin. Btw, is Len Randell still alive? He was a few years ago, living in Attadale, if memory serves.

  34. #34
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    Default Re: 24' Len Randell Sloop Rebuild

    If any of the merchants over your way carry spotted gum John, I'd recommend that.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  35. #35
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    Default Re: 24' Len Randell Sloop Rebuild

    I had noticed the frequent mention of this timber by Eastern States members and other sources, Peter, but it doesn't seem to be available here except as a special buy with the, you guessed it, astronomical pricing...

    I spoke to local shipwright Alan Johns just now and he said karri was used because it was cheaper or more available. He'd use jarrah by preference, but he said karri is fine. So that's interesting.

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