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Thread: Some real Aussie Politics

  1. #2661
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    Default Re: Some real Aussie Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by Hallam View Post
    ............and now you want to run and hide? Had enough have we? The artfull dodger trundles off to safer territory......

    ....there's an idea for a new tag!
    artful dodger
    someone who makes it sound as if they want to get involved in doin something but wen it comes down to it dey always find some way ta bail out of it; or someone who always seems to have "something else" to do, no matter wat time of day or nite it is; or someone who can get out of ANYTHING ta save their own ass
    #artful#dodger#shady#creeper#lier

    Hmmmm


    How prophetic.

    "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome and charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime" Mark Twain... so... Carpe the living sh!t out of the Diem

  2. #2662
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    Default Re: Some real Aussie Politics

    Found this today:

    The full email from the Treasurer’s office to Gaven Morris:

    Hi Gaven, hope you are well.

    My name is Andrew Carswell, Senior Media Advisor to the Treasurer Scott Morrison.

    I bring to your attention Emma Alberici’s story this morning.

    It is riddled with inaccuracies, betrays a lack of understanding of corporate taxation, and basic economic and commercial principles. The article does notprovide any balance or counter argument whatsoever, as required by the ABC Charter.

    Nor did Ms Alberici, in formulation of either of the pieces published today, reach out to the Treasurer’s Office or the Minister for Revenue’s Office forcomment or clarification.

    I note Ms Alberici received a two-hour briefing from the ATO Deputy Commissioner Jeremy Hirschhorn on tax enforcement, tax integrity and tax compliance.She deliberately disregarded this advice from the leading tax avoidance expert at the ATO, who was also intimately involved in the developmentof Australia’s Tax Integrity Legislation and Frameworks.

    I understand Mr Hirschhorn sought to educate Ms Alberici on the basics of tax avoidance andcompany tax obligations after she expressed limited understanding.

    Again, she chose to avoid this advice and instead chose to mislead her audience in order to pursue an agenda.

    In addition to the story, I note Ms Alberici’s tweet this afternoon citing Treasury resource about GDP growth. It incorrectly cites Treasury modelling andin fact cites left-wing think tank Australia Institute analysis of Treasury’s conclusion. I would have thought Ms Alberici could have comprehended such adistinction.

    I note Ms Alberici also today retweeted Bill Shorten’s false claim of the Turnbull Government’s “$65 billion handout to multinationals”.

    Ms Alberici’s story reveals an inherent bias and is activism disguised as journalism, and we would expect more from the ABC’s Chief Economics Correspondent.

    I’ll point out a few things.

    • The story reports revenue as “income”, giving the impression it is equivalent with profit. This is a fundamental flaw.

    • The story confuses tax rate and tax avoidance. The story clearly pushes for rates not to be cut, or indeed be raised. But that would only affect thosepaying tax and does nothing to those Ms Alberici complains about that are in a loss position and have a zero tax liability. Companies Ms Alberici refers toas having a zero tax liability would still pay no tax if rates were increased.

    • The story uses emotional terms like saying companies “raked in” billions to give impression it is net profit, when its gross revenue.

    • The story ignores interest expenses even for financial institutions.

    • The story overlooks the fact that groups reported to have paid no tax are not for profit entities (eg Chartered Accountants Australia).

    • The story says CSR lobbies against a sugar tax, when in fact they sold their sugar interest to Wilmar years ago.

    • The story says BHP’s Singapore subsidiary on-sells their iron ore at a “hefty” mark-up (the ATO restricts what can be charged under some of the moststringent transfer pricing rules in the world). BHP is generally one of the top six taxpayers in Australia.

    • The story ignores companies that don’t need to pay corporate tax in the first place as they have Trusts in their structure collecting passive income likeReal Estate Trusts (eg GPT), and instead tax is paid (at a higher rate) in the hands of the underlying investor.

    • The story failed to recognise that some Australian companies do not have operations here in Australia. And just because their product is imported intoAustralia and sold by others, does not make them liable to pay tax in Australia.

    • The story shows no understanding of the concept of carried forward losses and doesn’t provide context by mentioning accumulated losses in prior years.(Qantas’ $2.8 billion loss in 2014).

    • The story complains about carried forward losses, without citing that Labor removed restrictions to use these in 1990 (see below).

    • The story implies companies in a loss position should be paying tax, without the scantest attempt to examine the inverse, namely that if you start taxingcompanies in loss, you will end up with devastating job losses and businesses going broke.

    • The story fails to provide a counter balance. For example, OECD figures showing Australia is more over reliant on corporate tax than just about anywherein OECD or how many billions of corporate tax is paid each year ($68.4 billion for the 2016-17 year alone).

    • The story seeks to downplay Prof. Richard Holden’s contribution to the company tax debate by merely passing him off as a ‘commentator’ despite hisstatus as a leading economist and Ph.D, whereas Saul Eslake, a well-known opponent of company tax cuts is accurately described as an ‘economist’.

    Points on tax losses and economic losses

    • Allowing losses to be offset against future profits is a standard feature of most income tax systems.

    • Generally a tax loss occurs where the total deductions claimed for an income year exceed the total of assessable and net exempt income for that year.Accounting profit/loss will rarely equate to tax profit/loss.

    • Tax is also reduced because of investment. Taxpayers get a deduction on depreciation because they are investing in depreciable capital infrastructure– like factories, shops, equipment – things which actually create jobs and help productivity. Businesses recover the cost of capital often before they startpaying tax . A huge proportion of losses reported are because of the significant capital investment that businesses are making into Australia which fairlyreduces their taxable income, and will help their long term profitability and therefore total tax they pay to the Australian public purse over the longer term.We are puzzled there was no mention of this previously given Ms Alberici used this very point to question Wayne Swan on claims that mining companieswere paying no tax and, by implication, therefore somehow dudding Australians.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhumnZuFnHs

    • On average, accounting losses are reported by 20–30 percent of the ASX top 500 companies in any one year. This is broadly comparable to the ATOdata, which shows that around one third of companies did not have a tax liability in 2015-16.

    • Restrictions on the carry forward of losses used to exist in Australia (under which losses could generally only be carried forward for seven years). Theserestrictions were removed in 1990 by the Labor Government (they were announced in the 1989-90 Budget by Paul Keating and introduced into Parliamentby the Minister assisting the Treasurer, Simon Crean).

    • Labor in fact tried to extend the use of losses in 2013 and make them refundable. The loss carry back regime proposed to operate as a refundable tax offset,effectively providing a loss company with a cash refund for the tax that was paid in a prior year(s). The Coalition Government repealed loss carry backrules that were introduced in 2013 which allowed companies to choose to “carry back” tax losses to be offset against tax paid in either of the two precedingyears (up to a cap of $300,000)

    The Government’s actions to address multinational tax avoidance

    • It is important to note, the data referred to in Ms Alberici’s article is taken from income years that pre-date the application of the full suite of the TurnbullGovernment’s new laws to close loopholes and ensure any profits earned here are taxed here. As such is neither a fair nor accurate picture of the contextwithin which the Enterprise Tax Plan is presented to the Parliament and Australians.

    Multinational Anti-Avoidance Law

    • The MAAL was legislated December 2015, with effect from 1 January 2016. Labor voted against this law.

    • To date, the MAAL has caused 38 multinational entities to change their tax affairs, added $7 billion of additional income to the tax base, collected half abillion dollars of additional GST payments and, as confirmed by the ATO in October 2017, was instrumental in almost a billion dollars’ worth of tax assessmentsissued in the 2016/17 financial year.

    • Also useful for the ATO in locking in appropriate arrangements going forward.

    • Consultation was announced just this week on extensions to the law earlier this week which will prevent large multinationals from using foreign trustsand partnerships in corporate structures to avoid its application.

    Diverted Profits Tax

    • Legislated March 2017, with effect from 1 July 2017.

    • Together, the MAAL and the Diverted Profits Tax are expected to raise around $650 million over four years (to 19-20) from large multinationals.

    Tax Avoidance Taskforce (briefly referred to in article)

    • Established 1 July 2016

    • Means ATO now have more staff than ever before dedicated to examining the affairs of big companies and high net worth individuals.

    • With the support of the Tax Avoidance Taskforce: In 2016-17, the ATO raised liabilities of $4.1 billion against large public groups and multinationals,of which the ATO has collected $2.9 billion in cash as at the end of December 2017. A further $1.1 billion has been raised so far in 2017-18. In 2016-17, theATO raised liabilities of $1 billion against wealthy individuals and associated groups, including trusts and promoters, of which the ATO has collected $500million to the end of June 2017. A further $913 million has been raised so far in 2017-18
    "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome and charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime" Mark Twain... so... Carpe the living sh!t out of the Diem

  3. #2663
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    Default Re: Some real Aussie Politics

    and the rest of it:

    ......................



    Country-by-Country Reporting Regime

    • Introduced in December 2015, with effect from 1 January 2016. First reports exchanged in September 2017.

    • Transparency measure that provides the platform for unprecedented information sharing between international tax authorities.

    • Was described by the Commissioner of Taxation at Estimates in October 2017 as being of “enormous value” and “transformational to our (the ATO’s)international tax work”.

    • The CbC reports are intended as an important information tool to be shared by relevant tax authorities. The Opposition has called for the CbC reportsto be released publicly. This would undermine the confidentiality of the information (the agreed basis of the regime) and would prevent the ATO fromreceiving information from other countries about the tax affairs of multinational entities.

    I would request that the gross factual inaccuracies in Ms Alberici’s story be corrected as a matter of priority.

    Kind regards
    Andrew Carswell
    "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome and charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime" Mark Twain... so... Carpe the living sh!t out of the Diem

  4. #2664
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    Default Re: Some real Aussie Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by The Bigfella View Post
    Ha ha, the great communicator, can't do anything but slag people.

    You ever manage to get a point across in a discussion?

    I'll go back to the point made originally, which you've done a lot of diversion from:

    it’s time to bloody well grow up and stop denying our Australian children their human rights and decency!


    Originally Posted by Hallam............and now you want to run and hide? Had enough have we? The artfull dodger trundles off to safer territory......

    ....there's an idea for a new tag!
    artful dodger
    someone who makes it sound as if they want to get involved in doin something but wen it comes down to it dey always find some way ta bail out of it; or someone who always seems to have "something else" to do, no matter wat time of day or nite it is; or someone who can get out of ANYTHING ta save their own ass

    #artful#dodger#shady#creeper#lier

    Quote Originally Posted by The Bigfella View Post
    Hmmmm


    How prophetic.

    Good morning Ian. ............no I wasn't bowing out of the discussion or dodging issues etc as you imply by quoting the definition of the artfull dodger back at me.
    It really does have more relevance in the context of the discussion it was originally placed in, as do the other ones you have re posted back at me. I like continuity....... things seem to make more headway.
    I also see after dilly dallying around somewhat, it now seems you have an urgent desire to readdress the issue at hand, .............the one defined in post #2609 ?


    This, I'm committed to despite what i have described as your game playing.

    Now this needs to be put straight before we go any further. The issue never was this!
    "it’s time to bloody well grow up and stop denying our Australian children their human rights and decency!"

    A bit careless of you to think you can get away with re defining the issue in such a sloppy manner.

    My time was taken up by other things yesterday arvo, namely a great recording session in the studio. God I love music, it re energises me. Any way that was the reason for my short absence not the practise of artful dodging as you suggested.
    Last edited by Hallam; 05-17-2018 at 09:06 PM.
    If war is the answer........... it must be a profoundly stupid question

  5. #2665
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    Default Re: Some real Aussie Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by Hallam View Post
    Good morning Ian. ............no I wasn't bowing out of the discussion or dodging issues etc as you imply by quoting the definition of the artfull dodger back at me.
    It really does have more relevance in the context of the discussion it was originally placed in, as do the other ones you have re posted back at me. I like continuity....... things seem to make more headway.
    I also see after dilly dallying around somewhat, it now seems you have an urgent desire to readdress the issue at hand, .............the one defined in post #2609 ?


    This, I'm committed to despite what i have described as your game playing.

    Now this needs to be put straight before we go any further. The issue never was this!
    "it’s time to bloody well grow up and stop denying our Australian children their human rights and decency!"

    A bit careless of you to think you can get away with re defining the issue in such a sloppy manner.

    My time was taken up by other things yesterday arvo, namely a great recording session in the studio. God I love music, it re energises me. Any way that was the reason for my short absence not the practise of artful dodging as you suggested.
    You do have trouble following along, don't you?

    That "sloppy manner" definition, as you call it, were Jacinta Nampijinpa Price's words, as pointed out in #2619.

    By all means, tell her she's sloppy. I won't, because she isn't. You, on the other hand, are proving to be very much so.
    "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome and charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime" Mark Twain... so... Carpe the living sh!t out of the Diem

  6. #2666
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    Default Re: Some real Aussie Politics

    Whilst he gathers some thoughts from remote corners of his brain, let's reflect on the fact that the current government has created one million jobs since it came in at the end of 2013.

    The best form of welfare?

    Work
    "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome and charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime" Mark Twain... so... Carpe the living sh!t out of the Diem

  7. #2667
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    Default Re: Some real Aussie Politics

    As defined by the Libs, Employed = I hour of paid work per week.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  8. #2668
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    Default Re: Some real Aussie Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterSibley View Post
    As defined by the Libs, Employed = I hour of paid work per week.
    Yes Peter. We know that you can't acknowledge good performance by anyone who sits to the right of Karl Marx.

    Here's the facts though:

    The ABS labour force figures today show that jobs continue to be created.
    Employment is now at a record high of just over 12.5 million.
    On average, more than 900 people have found work every day over the past year. Nearly 80 per cent of the jobs created have been full time.
    In the final year of the former Labor Government 17,000 full-time jobs disappeared.
    Every lever of policy put in place by the Government is pulling in the direction of more economic growth, more jobs and better jobs.
    "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome and charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime" Mark Twain... so... Carpe the living sh!t out of the Diem

  9. #2669
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    Default Re: Some real Aussie Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by The Bigfella View Post
    You do have trouble following along, don't you?

    That "sloppy manner" definition, as you call it, were Jacinta Nampijinpa Price's words, as pointed out in #2619.

    By all means, tell her she's sloppy. I won't, because she isn't. You, on the other hand, are proving to be very much so.
    Wow.... just Wow????
    I'm starting to feel like one of your tactics is to so totally frustrate and distract the process of communication as to never really follow a topic starter you post to a logical and positive outcome when someone who looks at things from a perspective other than yours contributes to the topic........ I am attempting to do so despite the hand grenades you throw.

    I will explain.....

    A basic tenant of good communication is that it is linear.

    [Further reading may be required this article may be required;
    How To Reason With Unreasonable People.
    .........although for the sake of peace and clarity of thought i will refrain from calling you unreasonable. We'll see how that works.

    http://bewellplace.com/reason-unreas...conversations/]


    A linear conversation is a conversation with a set path. You discuss point A, then move on to point B. It’s a logical sequence of discussion where you deal with each bit of the conversation separately, one piece at a time, instead of addressing a few topics all at once.What this does is eliminate the potential for distraction. Oftentimes, when we hold non-linear conversations we “lose our place” or forget that thing we meant to say earlier.Holding a linear conversation ensures that each point gets addressed such that no one “loses their place” or gets distracted from the topic at hand.

    Now, In reference to this post of yours:

    Quote Originally Posted by The Bigfella View Post

    You ever manage to get a point across in a discussion?

    I'll go back to the point made originally, which you've done a lot of diversion from:

    it’s time to bloody well grow up and stop denying our Australian children their human rights and decency!


    I maintain my position that the point made originally was never the above.

    I will also clarify that I am
    largely in agreement with the statement made by Jacinta Nampijinpa Price highlighted above, but reject how you tried to use it to put me into a place where you want me to be. A very negative tactic that is so transparently obvious.

    Now let's be clear this discussion started on your post #2609

    Headlined:
    Stolen generation talk puts kids at risk, says Warren Mundine

    That and the text that follows from the story by Rosemary Neill is clearly the point made originally.
    Can we agree on this simple clarification in the absence of any ad hominem commentary?
    Last edited by Hallam; 05-18-2018 at 12:13 AM.
    If war is the answer........... it must be a profoundly stupid question

  10. #2670
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    Default Re: Some real Aussie Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by The Bigfella View Post
    Yes Peter. We know that you can't acknowledge good performance by anyone who sits to the right of Karl Marx.

    Here's the facts though:

    The ABS labour force figures today show that jobs continue to be created.
    Employment is now at a record high of just over 12.5 million.
    On average, more than 900 people have found work every day over the past year. Nearly 80 per cent of the jobs created have been full time.
    In the final year of the former Labor Government 17,000 full-time jobs disappeared.
    Every lever of policy put in place by the Government is pulling in the direction of more economic growth, more jobs and better jobs.
    Yes, it's good and international conditions have been positive.

    The 1 hour of work BS remains though. Damn lies and Liberal statistics.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
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  11. #2671
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    Default Re: Some real Aussie Politics

    The quote in #2670 reads more like a Liberal party press release than 'Facts', which is not saying it is inaccurate, it just reads like its trying to persuade me, not inform me.

    In another thread today there is a very worthy article referenced.
    http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...an-Aristocracy
    There's more to inequality than just money, and one job is NOT the same as the next - if it was, then power would not lie with capital, it would lie with labour.

    They're work will set them free.
    "People should be able to access these benefits [Social Welfare] as a matter of right, with no more loss of their own standards of self-respect than would be involved in collecting from an insurance company the proceeds of an endowment policy on which they have been paying premiums for years."
    Robert Menzies - Liberal Party (Conservative) Prime Minister of Australia.

  12. #2672
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    Default Re: Some real Aussie Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by gypsie View Post
    The quote in #2670 reads more like a Liberal party press release than 'Facts', which is not saying it is inaccurate, it just reads like its trying to persuade me, not inform me.

    In another thread today there is a very worthy article referenced.
    http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...an-Aristocracy
    There's more to inequality than just money, and one job is NOT the same as the next - if it was, then power would not lie with capital, it would lie with labour.

    They're work will set them free.
    Feel free to go to the ABS stats.

    Meanwhile, their work is unlikely to set them free if they spell like that.
    "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome and charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime" Mark Twain... so... Carpe the living sh!t out of the Diem

  13. #2673
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    Default Re: Some real Aussie Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterSibley View Post
    Yes, it's good and international conditions have been positive.

    The 1 hour of work BS remains though. Damn lies and Liberal statistics.
    Got anything to back up your BS claim, re 1 hour?

    It's a while (about 11 or 12 years now) since I had 550 casual and part-time workers reporting through to me.

    As I recall it, there was a three hour minimum for calling someone in.

    Please tell me how many "1 hour" workers there are in that 12.5 million?

    Keep in mind, there's costs for the employer for bringing someone in.
    "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome and charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime" Mark Twain... so... Carpe the living sh!t out of the Diem

  14. #2674
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    Default Re: Some real Aussie Politics

    Do your own research or offer a decent hourly rate if you're too lazy .
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

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    Default Re: Some real Aussie Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterSibley View Post
    Do your own research or offer a decent hourly rate if you're too lazy .
    OK. I'll call you out. Your statement is, to use your own language, BS.

    A part time employee is a person who is employed to work less than thirty-eight (38) hours each week on a reasonably predictable basis. There is usually a minimum number of hour per shift that an employer can require a part-time employee to work (generally, it is either a minimum of 3 or 4 hours).
    http://www.fairworkcentre.com.au/new...ting-it-Right/
    "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome and charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime" Mark Twain... so... Carpe the living sh!t out of the Diem

  16. #2676
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    Default Re: Some real Aussie Politics

    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
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  17. #2677
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    Default Re: Some real Aussie Politics

    Ha ha. An article from 2012. You were slandering the Libs, but all you've proved is that it occurred under Labor and the Greens. And, it says that most of the people working a small number of hours don't want any more.

    When will you stop this slanderous approach to your political debate?
    "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome and charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime" Mark Twain... so... Carpe the living sh!t out of the Diem

  18. #2678
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    Default Re: Some real Aussie Politics

    The day you reciprocate and become a pleasant, cooperative correspondent.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
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  19. #2679
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    Default Re: Some real Aussie Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterSibley View Post
    The day you reciprocate and become a pleasant, cooperative correspondent.
    Did that in the year 2000. Maintained it ever since, until grubs get grubby.
    "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome and charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime" Mark Twain... so... Carpe the living sh!t out of the Diem

  20. #2680
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    Thumbs up Re: Some real Aussie Politics

    I see Aussie Politics is just as nasty as American Politics.
    You guys should be proud.
    Keep calm, persistence beats resistance.

  21. #2681
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    Default Re: Some real Aussie Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by Domesticated_Mr. Know It All View Post
    I see Aussie Politics is just as nasty as American Politics.
    You guys should be proud.
    G'day Kev.

    It used to be nice here, until the far, far left started getting derogatory. Very naughty of them, eh?
    "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome and charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime" Mark Twain... so... Carpe the living sh!t out of the Diem

  22. #2682
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    Default Re: Some real Aussie Politics

    I think he means by 'nice' that no one else posted on his thread.

  23. #2683
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    Default Re: Some real Aussie Politics

    Meanwhile

    "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome and charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime" Mark Twain... so... Carpe the living sh!t out of the Diem

  24. #2684
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    Default Re: Some real Aussie Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by skuthorp View Post
    I think he means by 'nice' that no one else posted on his thread.
    Time to help him again.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
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  25. #2685
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    Default Re: Some real Aussie Politics

    I reckon he gets sidelined by looking for the extreme left. Of course there's the CMFEU to tag but that's more about internal control of the union than anything as grand as 'left'.
    Its the 30th anniversary of New Parliament House, and back then the BLF were the bad boys, and the CMFEU got it built.
    Who'd a thunk it.

  26. #2686
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    Default Re: Some real Aussie Politics

    A speech that's worth reading:

    Culture, critical thinking and choice


    We can no longer just listen to the opinion of one Aboriginal person or persons of Aboriginal descent from somewhere in Sydney or any southern city and apply that to the circumstances of all Aboriginal people.

    Speech by Jacinta Nampijimpa Price to the Killarney Heights Forestville Branch of the Liberal Party, NSW
    16 May 2018

    To begin with I thank Tony Abbott for inviting me to attend as a guest speaker here this evening and would also like to acknowledge the messages of encouragement and support I have received from Tony over the last couple of years. Your support has been most appreciated.

    I often frequent Sydney these days and almost feel as though I am a local. I have to say however that I am a Newcastle Knights supporter and I hope that doesn’t offend anyone but if it does I am sure you will get over it. However, this also means I am a passionate Blues supporter in the State of Origin. The reason I have a close connection with Newcastle and NSW is because my father was born and raised there.

    Now, my Dad is a whitefella who was born in Awabakal country. He likes to think he has Pig Iron and Coking Coal dreamings from the sacred sight known as the BHP Steelworks that are no longer standing. What now stands in its place is the steel memorial to the generations of workers in that place created by my very own cousin and prominent Newcastle artist Julie Squires. So that is my connection to this part of the country.



    My mother on the other hand is from the desert, a place called Yuendumu 300 kilometres north west of Alice Springs. I was born in Darwin because my parents were working on Melville Island during that time. My dreamings are crocodile and deep water as my baby spirit came from the Tiwi Islands but my inherited dreamings come from Warlpiri country. They are ngapa – ‘rain’ and warlu – ‘fire’.

    What does all this mean for us Warlpiri? Well our beliefs are that at the beginning of time, during the dreaming, the spiritual beings known as Jukurrpa warnu, our creator ancestors came down from the sky and up out of the ground. They travelled the land creating its features as they went along. The whole of the landscape has been made in this way so the dreaming stories tell us of how places came into being. A rock formation may resemble shields, and trees may resemble spears that were used during combat, for example. Boulders can represent the transformed bodies of possums, and river beds the tracks of giant snakes. All of these stories explore what it means to be human a vast in a harsh landscape, in all of our complexity.

    We inherit our dreamings through our fathers and mothers. We share these dreamings with our families.

    As the creator beings travelled they also left behind in the land their spiritual essence. Some of this essence becomes child spirits which enter the bodies of passing women forming new life in their wombs. This gives us our very own personal dreamings. This is how we are connected to our country forever. This is what connects me to Tiwi country.

    But, apart from these spiritual beliefs, we have been in constant physical contact with the land for 60,000 years with no floor or vehicle, not even the sole of a shoe or bedding at night, separating us from the earth. The only time my people were not in contact with the earth was when they were carried in the arms of a loved one, a family member. Everything we needed we took directly from the land. When the creator ancestors finished creating the land, died, or were killed they either were transformed into a land formation, sank into the earth or flew back up into the sky to become a star formation.

    The dreaming stories underpinned all of our society. They gave us intricate maps of our country, knowledge of resources, water and food, and how to access them to survive, morals to live by and laws to uphold. The dreamings, however, have always evolved to suit the circumstances of the time and this is rarely taken into account in this day and age. We are told by those who are removed from traditional culture that we must maintain this culture that has been with us unchanged for 60,000 years. Of course no one knows a culture like the people who live it and many in the cities who claim Aboriginal descent do not know our traditional culture or are never clear on what it is they are attempting to hold onto.

    Culture differs from person to person and each individual’s upbringing. I once reminded Linda Burney of this while discussing Indigenous issues on a panel. Her instant reaction was to remind the audience that Aboriginal people are a varied bunch and just because one does not speak an Aboriginal language or know the traditional culture does not make them any less Aboriginal. This is the mantra amongst those whose status and income rely, not on their knowledge of the old ways, but on contemporary identity politics. Yet too many of those same people will not hesitate to tell the world what is good for those who do still speak one of our languages or try to live by traditional values.
    "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome and charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime" Mark Twain... so... Carpe the living sh!t out of the Diem

  27. #2687
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    Default Re: Some real Aussie Politics

    concluding part:

    In the politically correct world that we now live in, there is far too much romanticism about Aboriginal culture. The politically correct are not interested in facts. Those, like the Linda Burneys of the world who romanticise our culture, don’t understand the cultural factors that have contributed to the current problems of the most marginalised Aboriginal people. Being able to address these issues is the starting point to being able to solve the most difficult of our problems.

    For many years Australia has learned about Aboriginal people and culture through the media and through Aboriginal rights activists who have shaped the debate around Aboriginal issues and policies. These activists have come mostly from backgrounds based on western world views and therefore cannot really understand traditional culture and what its detrimental influences might be. Because they have lost connection to their traditional culture, they now want to salvage, reinvent and focus on the romantic aspects of culture without acknowledging the privileges the western world has bestowed upon them. This hinders their ability to address the critical and life threatening circumstances now being experienced, out of sight and out of mind, in Australia’s remote communities. We can no longer just listen to the opinion of one Aboriginal person or persons of Aboriginal descent from somewhere here in Sydney or any southern city and apply that to the circumstances of all Aboriginal people.

    It is because this is what has been done for some time that those who have suffered the most and whose lives are impacted the most by poverty, family violence and substance abuse, but whose culture is still mostly intact, are not being heard. Aboriginal issues have been debated politically for so long in this way that when someone like me gets up and starts to speak on behalf of those who have not been heard, those who have been the talking heads for so long shaping the Aboriginal viewpoint for so many years now shout out that I do not speak for them. I have never claimed to speak for them. Their followers who have been influenced for so long by their politically correct ideology don’t realise their own capability to think for themselves.

    We in the Northern Territory come from mixed cultural backgrounds. Thirty percent of us claim Indigenous descent; black issues are the business of all of us. We have to find answers to all of these complex problems together. Failure to do so affects all of us, we all pay the price of failure. We don’t want identity politics and political correctness to get in the way. We are, after all, the final frontier. We want to hold close to our traditional Australian values forged by the coming together of many different cultural backgrounds and heritages. The best of traditional Aboriginal values are part of that fusion, part of that tradition.

    We need all of this to solve the problems we now have that my Aboriginal grandparents could not have even imagined, that they had no tools to deal with. We need to combine their wisdom and those elements of their culture that still have relevance, that still work, with modern ways of thinking that evolved to deal with modern problems.

    It is this willingness to evolve, to adapt, that has made this country one of the world’s most decent, open and tolerant societies, one of the greatest on earth. We have all made it this way. There have been plenty of courageous and determined Aboriginal people who have helped make it the way it is. Somewhere along the way we have lost sight of this. Somewhere along the way we have lost our confidence to overcome the greatest of the problems we face. I learned from my grandparents to never give up, to be willing to learn from the white people, and anybody else for that matter, when they had something worthwhile to offer; to adapt and survive while keeping a pride in my identity, always refusing to become somebody else’s victim.

    My life has been a blessing so far. I have had the privilege of understanding two very different cultures, of being a product of reconciliation. While some in my position may claim it is hard to have to straddle two worlds I would say life is only as hard as the attitude you choose to have while you face its challenges. My life is a walk in the park in comparison to the lives my grandparents lived, from both sides of my family. I have had a life that has given me insight into two different cultures and an upbringing that has encouraged me to have an open mind toward all human beings and their backgrounds.

    I have been lucky enough to grow up in a country of opportunity. Even while I see my family suffer because they have not yet learned how to harness the tools to survive this modern world, I still have faith that this can change. It is about bridging that gap and creating understanding and I am obliged to be part of that.

    The western world has been able to progress because constructive criticism is embraced. Progress cannot be made if one cannot be challenged. But this means having to be honest. This means having the same standards for everyone. An Aboriginal child is an Australian child and all Australian children should have the same rights. If any Australian child is in danger of abuse or neglect then that child deserves the right to be protected not on the basis of that child’s race but on the basis of that child’s rights. We cannot continue to sacrifice Australian children in the name of culture.

    The Aboriginal people I know in this country want the same as other Australians. They want to be part of this great country. They want to understand how they too can take advantage of the wonderful opportunities this country has to offer. We want economic empowerment like other Australians and to be able to stand on our own feet to achieve this. Ask Warren Mundine next time you see him. He travels this country learning of those first Australians who have recognised their own capabilities and taken advantage of economic development opportunities.

    Education is the most important tool any person can obtain. Education is freedom and the understanding that one has choice. The knowledge that is acquired through education is not white man’s knowledge. It belongs to all of us to make of what we will. All of these things are attainable if we can come together as Australians to make this happen. We can do this by sharing those parts of our culture that enrich us and move us forward instead of focusing on that which makes us different.

    We are, after all, the same species and it is only our thinking that separates us. It is time we started believing in the Australian spirit again and applied that in our daily lives instead of allowing others to dictate how we should think. The Australian spirit is what inspired a Warlpiri woman, who was born under a tree and whose first language was not English, to one day grow up to become a Minister of the Crown. And it is the Australian spirit that has inspired me, her daughter, to walk in her footsteps, to challenge the status quo and to stand up for our traditional Australian values so that the lives of all Australians may be enriched.

    This is what I take with me to the next federal election as a proud Australian woman.

    Councillor Jacinta Nampinjimpa Price is an elected member of the Alice Springs Council and the Country Liberal Party’s endorsed candidate for the Northern Territory federal seat of Lingiari.
    "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome and charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime" Mark Twain... so... Carpe the living sh!t out of the Diem

  28. #2688
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    Default Re: Some real Aussie Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by skuthorp View Post
    I reckon he gets sidelined by looking for the extreme left. Of course there's the CMFEU to tag but that's more about internal control of the union than anything as grand as 'left'.
    Its the 30th anniversary of New Parliament House, and back then the BLF were the bad boys, and the CMFEU got it built.
    Who'd a thunk it.
    Who'd a thunk you'd not even know it's the CFMEU.
    "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome and charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime" Mark Twain... so... Carpe the living sh!t out of the Diem

  29. #2689
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    Default Re: Some real Aussie Politics

    There's some meat to this story..... but, it'll likely be dissed - and it sure as hell won't feature in the ABC.

    You guys should open your eyes....

    Belated apology on Hindmarsh bridge is still warranted


    The words and concepts of apologies and saying sorry are intrinsically linked to indigenous affairs in this nation. There is a unique and admirable group of Aboriginal women who undoubtedly deserve a public apology. For some of them, sadly, it is already too late and for the others, I fear, it is something they will never receive.

    On this day 23 years ago, two brave indigenous women trusted me to tell their story and expose a travesty against their Ngarrindjeri culture. It turned out to be the most significant event of my reporting career, had a profound impact on national indigenous affairs, changed the course of many lives and helped seal the fate of Paul Keating’s government.

    Dulcie and Dorothy Wilson revealed what they knew about the fabrication of the so-called secret women’s business of Hindmarsh Island. After weeks of research, I interviewed them in Dulcie’s kitchen in the South Australian timber-milling town of Millicent on Tuesday, May 16, 1995, before compiling two initial television reports that aired nationally three days later.


    We believed it was an important story but could not have envisaged the national media and political sensation it immediately generated, fuelling a bitter controversy and putting the women at the eye of a monumental power struggle. This was the volatile post-Mabo era and Hindmarsh Island suddenly emerged as a pivotal point of difference between the Labor and Coalition approaches. (Subsequently it has ensured a prudent scepticism about cultural heritage claims.)


    This spectacular controversy created turmoil and heartache for Dulcie and Dorothy and other dissident women such as Bertha Gollan, Jenny Grace and Beryl Kropinyeri, who courageously joined their public stand, explaining how anti-development activists had recruited Aboriginal opponents into a battle to stop a bridge and, after they failed, encouraged them to concoct the secret women’s business.


    These claims were “assessed” and accepted by Aboriginal affairs minister Robert Tickner, who then used federal Aboriginal heritage laws to ban the bridge.


    When we ran that initial story the bridge ban was 10 months old, so Dulcie and Dorothy were exposing a sham, rekindling a controversy, humiliating a federal government and taking on a vast array of special interests from environmental groups to indigenous, political, religious and media organisations. That, of course, was not the way they saw it. They were just exposing what they knew to be lies about their culture.


    None of us had any inkling of how this was to become an emblematic battle in indigenous politics. We naively assumed that once the truth was out the mistake would be corrected and we would all move on.


    Despite all manner of vilification, threats and intimidation the women stood fast, supported each other, stuck by the facts, maintained their good grace and weathered intense media scrutiny and a royal commission that unambiguously vindicated them.


    The saga up-ended the lives of all those involved, and their loved ones. Dulcie, Dorothy, Bertha and their families provided enormous support to me and my family as I continued to investigate and report on the issue against fierce opposition and attacks from Tickner and many others. It was a living hell for these women, who were ostracised by some members of their communities, demonised by some indigenous leaders and ignored by most of the activists and politicians who couldn’t bear to confront their revelations. The dissident women, as they became known, saw this controversy in devastatingly simple terms — they were just telling the truth.


    Dulcie, Bertha and Beryl are no longer with us. They endured tough times after the saga ended but were comforted and justly proud of the role they had played. It would be an exaggeration to say Hindmarsh Island cast a shadow over the rest of their days. There certainly were many difficult moments but in the end the memories and fallout seemed more like old war wounds for them; the occasional pangs of pain reminded them not only of the hardships they had endured but also of their most honourable achievements. Besides, they had all done so much more in their lives and had such busy families to be involved with that they were not going to let this episode define them. Their surviving family and friends remain immensely proud of them.


    Two months ago some words in this newspaper by my colleague and former Labor cabinet minister Graham Richardson came like a bolt out of the blue. They were simultaneously a belated and refreshing act of clarification, as well as a kick in the guts.


    Richo wrote with his usual frankness and clarity about the fraught state of indigenous affairs and the horrible collisions between good intentions and bad outcomes. In a matter-of-fact way, to illustrate his point, he recalled his days in the Keating cabinet. “I also well remember how the cabinet in which I served was hoodwinked over the concept of ‘secret women’s business’,” he wrote. “We were guilty of halting the Hindmarsh Bridge work for the wrong reasons.”


    Just like that.


    Here was a cabinet minister who was involved in those decisions more than two decades ago, and he was admitting the dissident women were right. Surely only these women and a few of their closest confidants can possibly imagine the trouble and torment they would have been spared if this reality had been declared by government at the time.


    The closest they had come previously was in September 1996 after Labor had lost office and Kim Beazley was opposition leader. He announced that Labor was dropping its opposition to the bridge. “There is now no reason why the Hindmarsh Island bridge should not go ahead,” he said. Beazley was asked whether this meant the Keating government’s decisions had been based on incorrect information. “Well, probably on no information basically; that was the point, the previous minister probably could have handled the thing differently.”


    To be clear, neither I nor the women ever cared about the bridge. Our interest was in the misuse and manipulation of Ngarrindjeri culture. Richo knows about the cabinet discussions, Tickner’s performance and the political implications of this madness all those years ago. What he doesn’t know, first-hand, is the calibre and character of the dissident women and what they went through. He does, however, agree they are owed an apology.


    Dorothy confirmed this week that she has never received an apology, although some members of her community have quiet*ly approached her through the years and told her they knew all along that she was right and others had conspired against her.

    But if an apology is owed, who would it come from? Would Keating seek to right this wrong or would Tickner climb down from his high horse and offer a belated apology?

    Perhaps this nation that often makes a mess of national awards — honouring politicians, public servants and businesspeople who simply do their jobs — may see its way clear to offer Australia Day recognition to these laudable Australians, including posthumously to Bertha, Dulcie and Beryl. They deserve the recognition, as do their families. These women present a wonderful example of selfless citizens standing up for truth, their culture and country, simply because it was the right thing to do. The broader significance of all this is best outlined in the pithy declaration Beryl made after the royal commission vindicated their stand: “Reconciliation starts with the truth.”


    Chris Kenny is the author of It Would Be Nice If There was Some Women’s Business: The Story Behind the Hindmarsh Island Affair.
    "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome and charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime" Mark Twain... so... Carpe the living sh!t out of the Diem

  30. #2690
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    Default Re: Some real Aussie Politics

    .... and another excellent piece of journalism that couldn't possibly get a run on the ABC

    Chris Corrigan issues a defence of capitalism during brief return


    Former Qube chairman Chris Corrigan. Picture: Hollie Adams.


    When it comes to corporate fads, there are four types of people in corporate Australia.

    First, there are the zealots. Let’s call them the Missionaries, those who proselytise about gender targets, diversity, social values, “independent” directors and so on. These people fill the ranks of Chief Executive Women and the Australian Institute of Company Directors and include those patronising Male Champions of Change. Mostly they are mediocre women who need targets to get ahead and men who self-flagellate, and their voices are magnified by their cheerleaders in the media. Not just social engineers, many of them have an overt and covert political agenda to do the bidding of industry super funds, unions and the Labor Party.

    Second, there are the Mushies, people who quietly mimic corporate fashions. There are more Mushies than there are Missionaries because it’s so easy: if you don’t think too much about what the agendas mean and where they lead, it all sounds rather nice. Words such as diversity, gender equality, social values, independence surely can’t be bad?


    The Cowards are the third group, made up of people who privately mutter about the stupidity of corporate fads. These directors, chairmen and chief executives will tell you stories about being bullied by the Missionaries, mostly on gender targets. Then they will tell you they can’t possibly speak out because that would be like putting a target on three-*legged moose during hunting season. So they join the fashionable chorus. This group is smaller than the Mushies but larger than the Missionaries.


    The last group, if you call it a group, is made up of people who call out the nonsense of corporate fashion — for the sake of shareholders, after all. Let’s call them the Corporate Super-Heroes. If you’re struggling to think of a name, that’s because in corporate Australia there is only one.





    Chris Corrigan was in Australia last week and he had plenty to say to Inquirer about the harm to shareholders from the latest corporate fads. And why not? Corrigan is no stranger to battles. As head of Patrick Corporation, he made history on the Australian waterfront 20 years ago last month by confronting union intimidation that had crippled Australian ports. Corrigan, with support from the Howard government, reformed port productivity that largely remains to this day.



    "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome and charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime" Mark Twain... so... Carpe the living sh!t out of the Diem

  31. #2691
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    Default Re: Some real Aussie Politics

    Part 2.......

    Years later when Patrick was pursued in a takeover with an underwhelming bid from Toll Holdings, Corrigan coaxed a better bid price for his shareholders after placing full-page advertisements in newspapers that read: “Patrick needs Toll like a fish needs a bicycle.”

    Betty Friedan, the feminist whose words he snaffled, would be even more horrified at his most recent target. This time it’s Corrigan v the Missionaries, the Mushies and the Cowards.

    As chairman of Qube, an ASX 200 company that is the reincarnation of Patrick Corp, Corrigan started receiving letters in 2014 from people who fall into the category of gender zealots. Their aim was to force Corrigan to comply with their gender targets on the Qube board, which was an all-male board.

    There was a benign letter in April 2014 from Claire Braund, executive director of Women on Boards, wanting to interview Corrigan about how to get more women on boards and into a “C suite” role. Then, in July 2015, came a letter from the Australian Council of Superannuation Investors, which describes itself as providing the “collective voice on environmental, social and governance issues” on behalf of its 38 members. Requesting a meeting with Corrigan, ACSI boss Louise Davidson informed him of ACSI’s campaign to impose gender targets so women would fill 30 per cent of ASX 200 board seats.

    Then, in October 2016, a letter from Ian Silk, chief executive of AustralianSuper, a shareholder, reminded Corrigan that AustralianSuper had a policy towards companies without a commitment to gender diversity to “vote ‘against’ one director seeking re-election each year … in the following priority: (i) board chair; (ii) nomination committee chair; (iii) longest serving member of the nomination committee up for re-election; and (iv) longest serving member of the board up for re-election”.

    In June last year another letter arrived, from Debby Blakey, boss of industry super fund HESTA, another shareholder, informing Corrigan that boards should have a minimum of 30 per cent of female directors.


    Catherine Brenner arrives at the Coca-Cola Amatil AGM on Wednesday.


    “Consistent with our proxy voting policy, we will vote in line with ACSI against the most senior director sitting on boards with no female representation,” she wrote.


    If it weren’t there already, this put a target on Corrigan’s head. And it didn’t go unnoticed that none of these letters of intimidation, and others too, didn’t place a single caveat about board candidates having the necessary qualifications about the industry or the company.


    Soon after the barrage of gender bullying began, Corrigan drafted a paper dated July 11, 2015, for the Qube board. In true Corrigan style, he said: “I am uncomfortable about being bullied to add females to the Qube board irrespective of requirement, suitability and potential contribution but solely on the basis of their sex. In short, there is clearly a public campaign by a pressure group, possibly backed by a select but unquantified number of shareholders, to goad us into behaviour in regard to board composition regardless of need or our judgment.”

    Corrigan set out three options open to the board:

    “1. Placate the objectives of this pressure group and acquiesce to their objectives in breach of our own code of conduct and irrespective of a quantification of the level of support for these objectives within our shareholder group. We can dress this up, as no doubt many companies are doing, by conducting a ‘needs’ survey, reach the ‘appropriate’ conclusion and make a decision to appoint one or more females solely to avoid controversy and placate the social engineers.

    “2. Don’t engage and proceed as we consider appropriate and let shareholders vote at the AGM, via the annual ballot, on the desirability of our proposed board composition. In other words, let the cards fall where they may.

    “3. Make a case that the approach we are being pressured to follow is not an appropriate one and suggest an alternative course.”

    Accustomed to confronting bullies, Corrigan preferred the third option. He explained, in the paper, that the gender agenda of activists would mean Qube breached its anti-discrimination policies and its code of conduct. He added: “At a personal level, I find the objectives of the campaigners demeaning to women as it suggests they would be unsuccessful in their own right unless assisted by quotas.”

    Corrigan also put the gender push in context as part of a broader corporate fashion to shape companies as having a social role and somehow being representative of the community at large.

    Then came the real sting. Corrigan said the third option “provides an invitation to the social engineers to put up or shut up”. In other words, given corporate law makes shareholders the final arbiters of board composition, these shareholders should embrace their responsibility: nominate at an annual general meeting the directors they want and stop behind-the-scenes bullying of board members and chairmen.



    Australian Institute of Company Directors chairwoman Elizabeth Proust. Picture: John Feder.

    In an exclusive interview with Inquirer in Sydney last week, as the AMP furore continued to unfold, Corrigan makes the point that others won’t make publicly about the appointment of 47-year-old Catherine Brenner to chair the AMP board.

    “The comment the other day that criticism of Brenner was sexist is so ridiculous. Can you imagine that a man with moderate investment banking experience at a second-rate investment bank would have got to be chair of the AMP?” he says.

    “It’s demonstrably the case that Brenner was there because she was a woman. You can’t come to any other sensible conclusion.”
    Corrigan says the push to appoint board directors using gender targets “is affecting the quality of people on boards. And it’s based on some very flimsy studies.”

    He is right. University of NSW finance professor Renee B. Adams has debunked claims that had Lehman Brothers been Lehman Sisters there wouldn’t have been a financial crisis. Adams finds that while there is correlation, there is no evidence of cause for claims that women on boards make for better-run companies. In other words, the best boards appoint the best people with the best skill-set — regardless of gender.

    What, then, was the reaction to Corrigan’s plucky board paper? Let’s just say the Qube board joined the ranks of Mushies. Corrigan tells Inquirer the board sentiment was “that ship has sailed”. In other words, the board capitulated quietly, avoided fuss and appointed a woman to keep the super funds off its back.


    There were a few reasons Corrigan announced his resignation from Qube in 2016 but he says “this was not an insignificant reason”. He departed a year later and a woman was appointed to the board. The problem for that woman, Sue Palmer, and every woman appointed today, is she will never know if she is there because she is a woman or because she is the right person with the best skill set for the board seat.


    The same question certainly will haunt Brenner after she announced on Wednesday she would not seek re-election to the board of Coca-Cola Amatil. Though Brenner has been on the Coca-Cola board for 10 years and renewal is needed, her boardroom career is in free fall.
    "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome and charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime" Mark Twain... so... Carpe the living sh!t out of the Diem

  32. #2692
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    Default Re: Some real Aussie Politics

    Part 3....


    “They have blood on their hands,” one boardroom veteran told Inquirer this week, pointing the finger at the gender activists at Chief Executive Women, the AICD, particularly under present boss Elizabeth Proust, and the patronisingly named Male Champions of Change, whose members eagerly promote women such as Brenner even when they lack the proper skill set for the big jobs.

    This senior corporate director, who must go nameless because he is a self-described Coward, agrees that a man of Brenner’s age and lack of experience would never have been appointed AMP chair. But he can’t say that publicly because the backlash is fierce and unforgiving. He also points to the hypocrisy of ACSI. The same body that bullied Corrigan to appoint women to the Qube board signalled it would vote against two female AMP directors up for re-election at AMP’s recent AGM.

    And then, in a case of not learning from its mistakes, ACSI had the audacity to demand more female directors be appointed to the AMP board and, once again, no mention of having right qualifications for this troubled company.

    Corrigan suspects that with more exposures such as AMP’s underqualified board, this frivolity with gender targets rather than skills eventually will lead to targets becoming less fashionable. “But that will take time,” he laments. Meanwhile, shareholders will suffer the consequences with inept boards reflected in diminishing shareholder wealth.

    Corrigan puts the long silence from corporate Australia down to the directors’ club. “They all want to be shaking hands and patting people on the back, being nice and following the mood of the moment, and the mood of the moment is that we have to have gender equality.

    “Well, there’s nothing wrong with that except that it means we don’t necessarily have the best person for the job. And we’ve only examined the banking institutions. You don’t have this much trouble surely if we are appointing the right person to the job.”

    Corrigan is not talking out of his hat. His background is banking. In the heyday of banking deregulation, in the 1980s, he helped build BT Australia virtually from nothing. He recalls that the investment bank was worth $4 million when it started out and it eventually was sold for about $3 billion. Given it was one of Australia’s greatest banking success stories, I ask how many offers Corrigan has received to join a bank board in Australia?


    “Zero,” he tells Inquirer.


    He adds that while he would have said no to any offer, “it strikes me as bizarre that somebody who actually understood banking from the ground up, that you wouldn’t be considered as someone who might be useful on a bank board. It’s odd that no one thought of it.”

    Mediocrity in corporate Australia is not just about underqualified women, according to Corrigan. There are plenty of male board members who are overloaded in their commitments and lack the requisite competence and skills, too. And mediocrity has been embedded into boardrooms by a set of Australian Securities Exchange governance rules set down by the ASX Corporate Governance Council, which is made up of, you guessed it, the Missionaries, including those at the AICD.

    In addition to a new 30 per cent gender target, the ASX corporate governance rules have long imposed rules that most directors be “independent”. And independence is defined as having fewer than 5 per cent of shares in the company and having no direct executive experience in the company. While the rule is on a “if not, why not” basis, in reality it has meant boards regularly have 80 per cent of “independent” directors who have no inside knowledge of the company and no real alignment with shareholders.

    “All this talk about independent directors is a complete misunderstanding of the functions of a company and the functions of capitalism itself,” Corrigan says.

    “If I am a director of a company and I own 4.9 per cent, I am ‘independent’, but if I own 5.1 per cent, I am now not independent according to the ASX. What’s wrong with me owning 5.1 per cent? Do I think differently? I do think differently because the more I own, the more I think like an owner. I think we need more people on boards to think like owners. These rules about independence are complete nonsense.

    “The guy who has got no shares, the ‘independent director’ — what’s his motivation? It can go both ways. His motivation is, ‘I don’t want to make a mistake, so let’s be conservative.’ Alternatively, perhaps he thinks, ‘Well it’s not my money, so let’s blow it.’

    “I think the ASX is completely off-base with this need for so-called independent directors.”

    Corrigan’s finely tuned corporate antennae about mediocre boards are reflected in research by Peter Swan from UNSW that confirms more “independent” directors have delivered poorer, not better, corporate governance.

    Swan points to the ASX and the AICD directors as the culprits for cementing into ASX rules the non-alignment of directors with shareholder interests. Indeed, the non-alignment is entrenched further by ASX governance rules that require most “independent” directors to be on board nomination committees that end up choosing more “independent” directors for the main board.

    Curiously, the latest draft of the proposed ASX governance rules includes this new idea: “A listed entity should have a board of an appropriate size, composition, skills, commitment and knowledge of the entity and the industry in which it operates, to enable it to discharge its duties effectively and to add value.”

    The absence of this rule tells you that corporate fads have dislodged the core purpose of a board, and pity help the shareholders. Corrigan takes a swipe at another frolic by the Missionaries at the ASX, the AICD and various industry funds. Requiring directors to follow “social values” — set to be included in the newest ASX corporate governance rules — will dilute only further a director’s ability to look after shareholder returns.

    “I’m not sure it’s even legal,” says Corrigan. “A director is not elected on a platform of social values. Directors have a legal responsibility to maximise profits of a company within the confines of the law and within acceptable risk parameters. So if somebody comes along and says we’d like you to consider social values, the question is, ‘Whose social values?’ We’re not politicians. We’re not elected by socio-economic groups en masse.

    “We’re elected by shareholders. So where do you get the mandate to decide what social values you’re going to ascribe to your shareholders? And what’s the method for doing that?”

    Corrigan’s observations highlight a truly dismal state of affairs. The corporate rule-setters fight for every cause except the one that delivers prosperity: capitalism.


    Having thrown down the gauntlet to corporate Australia to reconsider the folly of its fads, Corrigan strolled out into Sydney’s glorious autumn morning sun, hopped on his moped and disappeared down the street, his comments threatening to reverberate long after he flies out of the country for his home in Switzerland a few days later.

    Maybe a few more will be emboldened to question the rooted mediocrity on Australia’s biggest corporate boards? Maybe the membership will rise up to demand better leadership of the distorted AICD?

    Will the Missionaries, the Mushies and the Cowards be exposed as overseeing corporate governance rules that dumb down and disconnect directors from shareholders?

    It’s a safe bet that Corrigan’s battle with corporate fashionistas isn’t over.
    "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome and charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime" Mark Twain... so... Carpe the living sh!t out of the Diem

  33. #2693
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    Default Re: Some real Aussie Politics

    Meanwhile, the Victorian Premier is facing some heat over this

    "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome and charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime" Mark Twain... so... Carpe the living sh!t out of the Diem

  34. #2694
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    Default Re: Some real Aussie Politics

    Another day Ian..............

    I repeat....... let's be clear our discussion started on your post #2609

    Headlined:
    Stolen generation talk puts kids at risk, says Warren Mundine

    That and the text that follows from the story by Rosemary Neill is clearly the point made originally.
    Can we agree on this simple clarification in the absence of any ad hominem commentary?


    It's telling that you have not even bothered to address my request.

    You do have trouble following along, don't you?

    The clearly demonstrated fact that you have steadfastly refused to discuss or explore this issue in a two way conversation, and that you have
    only presented issues from a partisan perspective, makes your contributions a part of the problem with political discourse not part of the solution.

    Real Australian Politics is, or should be a means to an end not an end in itself.


    If war is the answer........... it must be a profoundly stupid question

  35. #2695
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    Default Re: Some real Aussie Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by Hallam View Post
    Another day Ian..............

    I repeat....... let's be clear our discussion started on your post #2609

    Headlined:
    Stolen generation talk puts kids at risk, says Warren Mundine

    That and the text that follows from the story by Rosemary Neill is clearly the point made originally.
    Can we agree on this simple clarification in the absence of any ad hominem commentary?


    It's telling that you have not even bothered to address my request.

    You do have trouble following along, don't you?

    The clearly demonstrated fact that you have steadfastly refused to discuss or explore this issue in a two way conversation, and that you have
    only presented issues from a partisan perspective, makes your contributions a part of the problem with political discourse not part of the solution.

    Real Australian Politics is, or should be a means to an end not an end in itself.


    Ha ha.

    While you try and figure out why I highlighted those two sentences, I'm off on a bike ride.

    Have fun
    "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome and charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime" Mark Twain... so... Carpe the living sh!t out of the Diem

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