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Thread: Some real Aussie Politics

  1. #36
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    Default Re: Some real Aussie Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterSibley View Post
    Anyway, she's doing Labor proud at the moment, I hope Tony keeps her on! Don't weaken Tony ! Stay the course !!!!
    Typical lefty.... always concentrating on the minutiae, never aware of the real issues
    "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome and charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime" Mark Twain... so... Carpe the living sh!t out of the Diem

    I'd rather look back at my life and say "I can't believe I did that" instead of being there saying "I wish I'd done that"

  2. #37
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    Default Re: Some real Aussie Politics

    Why is it not okay for a union to rort the system but okay if a politician does?
    Joe Hockey claims travel and accommodation allowance then stays at his wife's house in Canberra. Bronwyn spends the equivalent of 3 months emergency relief funding for a community centre on a 20 minute chopper flight. How is any of that right?
    My take is that if you poke someone with a sharp stick they'll get annoyed, if you smile and shake their hand they will be your friends.

    John Welsford

  3. #38
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    Default Re: Some real Aussie Politics

    Power and privilege.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
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    Default Re: Some real Aussie Politics

    Just jumping in to say; I hope this thread does not eclipse Steve's thread.

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    Default Re: Some real Aussie Politics

    No chance .
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
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  6. #41
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    Default Re: Some real Aussie Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by Hwyl View Post
    Just jumping in to say; I hope this thread does not eclipse Steve's thread.
    I think Steve's thread is safe. Ian may be raising legitimate issues regarding unions and the Labor party but he is far to partisan to raise the issue of rorting within the Liberal party.
    My take is that if you poke someone with a sharp stick they'll get annoyed, if you smile and shake their hand they will be your friends.

    John Welsford

  7. #42
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    Default Re: Some real Aussie Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by Hwyl View Post
    Just jumping in to say; I hope this thread does not eclipse Steve's thread.
    Still bleating eh? Worried about the minutiae, rather than the substance. Trying to stir up discontent? Why am I not surprised?

    Steve's thread has been turned into a memorial for the screeching left of the Oz political spectrum. He'd have liked that.
    "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome and charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime" Mark Twain... so... Carpe the living sh!t out of the Diem

    I'd rather look back at my life and say "I can't believe I did that" instead of being there saying "I wish I'd done that"

  8. #43
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    Default Re: Some real Aussie Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by WX View Post
    Why is it not okay for a union to rort the system but okay if a politician does?
    Joe Hockey claims travel and accommodation allowance then stays at his wife's house in Canberra. Bronwyn spends the equivalent of 3 months emergency relief funding for a community centre on a 20 minute chopper flight. How is any of that right?
    If I was a politician, or High Court judge... or anyone else forced to travel to that dump of a town for work, I'd do the same thing. I'd happily stay in an investment property owned by someone else and pay them rent. Would you rather they lined the pockets of the Hilton family?

    Tell me again how it was right for Bob Carr to use government helicopters? Would you rather he'd peddled around the state on his Malvern Star?

    The reality is, there's very tightly defined travel entitlements rules, administered by an independent body, with extremely tight (and costly) oversight. What do you want? A referendum every time a politician steps on a bus, to make sure it's OK with the public?
    "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome and charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime" Mark Twain... so... Carpe the living sh!t out of the Diem

    I'd rather look back at my life and say "I can't believe I did that" instead of being there saying "I wish I'd done that"

  9. #44
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    Default Re: Some real Aussie Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterSibley View Post
    Power and privilege.
    Legitimate entitlements, overseen by an independent body. If they aren't, they are repaid, with penalties.

    Your personal inadequacies at never having made it seem to be clouding your view.
    "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome and charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime" Mark Twain... so... Carpe the living sh!t out of the Diem

    I'd rather look back at my life and say "I can't believe I did that" instead of being there saying "I wish I'd done that"

  10. #45
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    Default Re: Some real Aussie Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by WX View Post
    I think Steve's thread is safe. Ian may be raising legitimate issues regarding unions and the Labor party but he is far to partisan to raise the issue of rorting within the Liberal party.
    Which is why he wandered off, it was a debate he couldn't sustain. He likes attacking unions ( and there are good reasons to do so over rorting) but when it comes to his Liberal Party he is far too precious..... you will very, very seldom hear a word of criticism of them from him or even agreement with an obviously valid point. Oz Pol did not suit him so now only liberal voices are left.

    Not the Australian difference between Liberal Party .... our conservative party...... read middle to right Reps US.
    and liberal ... that which that party was until infiltrated by the Thatcherite right. That position being now held by the Labor Party.... although their right is rather to the right of the original Liberal Party stance at it's inception .

    Confusing ? Just a general move by all parties to the right and corporate interest, pretty much as per the USA.
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  11. #46
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    Default Re: Some real Aussie Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by WX View Post
    I think Steve's thread is safe. Ian may be raising legitimate issues regarding unions and the Labor party but he is far to partisan to raise the issue of rorting within the Liberal party.
    How far is it to partisan?
    "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome and charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime" Mark Twain... so... Carpe the living sh!t out of the Diem

    I'd rather look back at my life and say "I can't believe I did that" instead of being there saying "I wish I'd done that"

  12. #47
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    Default Re: Some real Aussie Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by The Bigfella View Post
    If I was a politician, or High Court judge... or anyone else forced to travel to that dump of a town for work, I'd do the same thing. I'd happily stay in an investment property owned by someone else and pay them rent. Would you rather they lined the pockets of the Hilton family?

    Tell me again how it was right for Bob Carr to use government helicopters? Would you rather he'd peddled around the state on his Malvern Star?

    The reality is, there's very tightly defined travel entitlements rules, administered by an independent body, with extremely tight (and costly) oversight. What do you want? A referendum every time a politician steps on a bus, to make sure it's OK with the public?
    Tell me again how it was right for Bronwyn to use a helicopter when she could have used a car?
    As for the entitlements they are obviously not defined tightly enough because both major parties rort them. The only difference seems to be if a Labor polly does it there's a royal commission whereas if a Liberal polly does it...well that's okay, it's an entitlement. I'll take you seriously Ian when you are willing to debate the corruption of both major parties. Till then you are just another dyed in the wool Liberal party apologist.
    My take is that if you poke someone with a sharp stick they'll get annoyed, if you smile and shake their hand they will be your friends.

    John Welsford

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    Default Re: Some real Aussie Politics

    What is needed is a body outside the control of politicians that can examine expenses and decide within days if those expenses are legitimate and it should OF COURSE apply to both sides.

    But thing that sticks in the craw of voters is the idea that a politician can claim say $5000 , be found out and just give it back . Try that with Centrelink ! Get a $5000 overpayment on your aged pension or widows pension through failing to declare or basically just lying and when they come for a chat just offer to give it back, Bronwyn style and see how well you go.

    It's this kind of injustice that gags people and that is the arrogance of which I speak. The idea that in a democracy a "public servant" can scam the system then just hand it back with no penalty when caught .
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
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  14. #49
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    Default Re: Some real Aussie Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by WX View Post
    Tell me again how it was right for Bronwyn to use a helicopter when she could have used a car?
    As for the entitlements they are obviously not defined tightly enough because both major parties rort them. The only difference seems to be if a Labor polly does it there's a royal commission whereas if a Liberal polly does it...well that's okay, it's an entitlement. I'll take you seriously Ian when you are willing to debate the corruption of both major parties. Till then you are just another dyed in the wool Liberal party apologist.
    Take me seriously? Why on earth would you want to do that, you might end up with an ulcer when you realize just how much damage the greens and laborists are doing to our society? You might as well continue to ignore it and be happy.

    Why was it right for Bronny to use a helicopter? Where did I say that it was? Where did I apologize for it? I simply pointed out that it is a storm in a teacup. The cost of her excursion is one tenth the cost of the SA Treasurer's recent four day jaunt. It's a miniscule fraction of what Bob Carr's helicopter expenses were. It's nothing but a fart in a cosmos full of thunder.
    "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome and charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime" Mark Twain... so... Carpe the living sh!t out of the Diem

    I'd rather look back at my life and say "I can't believe I did that" instead of being there saying "I wish I'd done that"

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    Default Re: Some real Aussie Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterSibley View Post
    What is needed is a body outside the control of politicians that can examine expenses and decide within days if those expenses are legitimate and it should OF COURSE apply to both sides.

    But thing that sticks in the craw of voters is the idea that a politician can claim say $5000 , be found out and just give it back . Try that with Centrelink ! Get a $5000 overpayment on your aged pension or widows pension through failing to declare or basically just lying and when they come for a chat just offer to give it back, Bronwyn style and see how well you go.

    It's this kind of injustice that gags people and that is the arrogance of which I speak. The idea that in a democracy a "public servant" can scam the system then just hand it back with no penalty when caught .
    You seem to lack a basic understanding of the way the system works. Haven't you been looking at balanced news sources? You should try Rupert's Oztralian. There IS a body outside the control of politicians that reviews and administers the expense system. That's why you know about Bronny's helicopter ride. Haven't you caught up with the fact that she paid a 25% penalty too?
    "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome and charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime" Mark Twain... so... Carpe the living sh!t out of the Diem

    I'd rather look back at my life and say "I can't believe I did that" instead of being there saying "I wish I'd done that"

  16. #51
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    Default Re: Some real Aussie Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by The Bigfella View Post
    Take me seriously? Why on earth would you want to do that, you might end up with an ulcer when you realize just how much damage the greens and laborists are doing to our society? You might as well continue to ignore it and be happy.

    Why was it right for Bronny to use a helicopter? Where did I say that it was? Where did I apologize for it? I simply pointed out that it is a storm in a teacup. The cost of her excursion is one tenth the cost of the SA Treasurer's recent four day jaunt. It's a miniscule fraction of what Bob Carr's helicopter expenses were. It's nothing but a fart in a cosmos full of thunder.

    It all adds up to funding cuts for womens refuges, community centres and a range of other services. Bronwyn didn't realise she had made a mistake and volunteer to repay it, she was caught out just like Slipper was. However unlike Slipper who was dragged through the mud she has gotten a light slap on the wrist.
    My take is that if you poke someone with a sharp stick they'll get annoyed, if you smile and shake their hand they will be your friends.

    John Welsford

  17. #52
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    Default Re: Some real Aussie Politics

    "Take me seriously? Why on earth would you want to do that, you might end up with an ulcer when you realize just how much damage the greens and laborists are doing to our society?"
    Neither are in government. They may be in the fullness of time but not now. So please expand your argument or point us at some writing on the subject. It's a long while since we have had a proper policy debate and with luck Phil and maybe even Greg will join in. For me the biggest hurdle to proper policy discussion (not here) in the general community is the behaviour people see from politicians, with a few honourable exceptions, and the lack of respect and trust in politicians and the process in general.
    How they get that back is a problem for the country for a start, and not likely to be aided by a partisan press who after all have a completely different agenda, advertising revenue.

  18. #53
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    Default Re: Some real Aussie Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by WX View Post
    It all adds up to funding cuts for womens refuges, community centres and a range of other services. Bronwyn didn't realise she had made a mistake and volunteer to repay it, she was caught out just like Slipper was. However unlike Slipper who was dragged through the mud she has gotten a light slap on the wrist.
    No, the interest bill on Labor's debts (aided by the Greens) adds up to funding cuts for those services. Money doesn't grow on bamboo, you know.
    "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome and charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime" Mark Twain... so... Carpe the living sh!t out of the Diem

    I'd rather look back at my life and say "I can't believe I did that" instead of being there saying "I wish I'd done that"

  19. #54
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    Default Re: Some real Aussie Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by skuthorp View Post
    "Take me seriously? Why on earth would you want to do that, you might end up with an ulcer when you realize just how much damage the greens and laborists are doing to our society?"
    Neither are in government. They may be in the fullness of time but not now. So please expand your argument or point us at some writing on the subject. It's a long while since we have had a proper policy debate and with luck Phil and maybe even Greg will join in. For me the biggest hurdle to proper policy discussion (not here) in the general community is the behaviour people see from politicians, with a few honourable exceptions, and the lack of respect and trust in politicians and the process in general.
    How they get that back is a problem for the country for a start, and not likely to be aided by a partisan press who after all have a completely different agenda, advertising revenue.
    The greens operate in an economic vacuum. They consistently show that they have zero understanding or concern re economic impacts. If they were pragmatic and sensible, they'd have steamrollered labor years ago.... but they aren't and can't be. They have the same level of credibility that you ascribe to politicians generally among all but the rusted on and those who haven't opened their eyes yet. Let's not forget, anyone here 30 or under hasn't really seen one.
    "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome and charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime" Mark Twain... so... Carpe the living sh!t out of the Diem

    I'd rather look back at my life and say "I can't believe I did that" instead of being there saying "I wish I'd done that"

  20. #55
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    Default Re: Some real Aussie Politics

    I can't agree with the 'economic vacuum' statement completely but you are correct in that the Greens have not had to present themselves as an alternative anything before. I can't agree with the steamroller remark however, the reason they are there at all is because Labour has lurched right. Things may change with De Natale, he seems to be about joining in the main game but it's a path strewn with dangers for what has been essentially a ginger group. I don't know whether they or labour could establish a formal coalition, I suspect that both parties would loose members and votes.

    Re tax policies of both sides, far too many 'don't go there's' for realistic negotiations and it will need negotiation. Re super: Seems that the private sector is jealous of the Industry funds and wants their fingers in the pie. Otherwise a restructure at the top end is needed. The GST? an increase is on it's way regardless, only contention is re the exclusions, and in my opinion they should stay for all the previous reasons.

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    Default Re: Some real Aussie Politics

    There was a very complete tax revue .... the Henry Tax Revue that has been comprehensively ignored by all and sundry.... what a complete wast of time! Frankly any tax reform will be partisan in favour of the party in power's constituents, so much is obvious. A real change in tax policy would require more courage and a bigger electoral margin than seems likely in the foreseeable future.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
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    Default Re: Some real Aussie Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by The Bigfella View Post
    No, the interest bill on Labor's debts (aided by the Greens) adds up to funding cuts for those services. Money doesn't grow on bamboo, you know.
    Not since China started selling it to us.
    My take is that if you poke someone with a sharp stick they'll get annoyed, if you smile and shake their hand they will be your friends.

    John Welsford

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    Default Re: Some real Aussie Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by skuthorp View Post
    I can't agree with the 'economic vacuum' statement completely but you are correct in that the Greens have not had to present themselves as an alternative anything before. I can't agree with the steamroller remark however, the reason they are there at all is because Labour has lurched right. Things may change with De Natale, he seems to be about joining in the main game but it's a path strewn with dangers for what has been essentially a ginger group. I don't know whether they or labour could establish a formal coalition, I suspect that both parties would loose members and votes.

    Re tax policies of both sides, far too many 'don't go there's' for realistic negotiations and it will need negotiation. Re super: Seems that the private sector is jealous of the Industry funds and wants their fingers in the pie. Otherwise a restructure at the top end is needed. The GST? an increase is on it's way regardless, only contention is re the exclusions, and in my opinion they should stay for all the previous reasons.
    I don't recall the full extent of the discussion, but I recall the Industry Super issue as being about having a level playing field. Same with unions.... if someone has control over others' money, it should be transparent and subject to scrutiny. eg audited
    "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome and charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime" Mark Twain... so... Carpe the living sh!t out of the Diem

    I'd rather look back at my life and say "I can't believe I did that" instead of being there saying "I wish I'd done that"

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    Default Re: Some real Aussie Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by WX View Post
    Not since China started selling it to us.
    You prefer restraints on trade? Import duties?
    "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome and charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime" Mark Twain... so... Carpe the living sh!t out of the Diem

    I'd rather look back at my life and say "I can't believe I did that" instead of being there saying "I wish I'd done that"

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Bigfella View Post
    You prefer restraints on trade? Import duties?
    I doubt it would make any difference no matter what I thought.
    My take is that if you poke someone with a sharp stick they'll get annoyed, if you smile and shake their hand they will be your friends.

    John Welsford

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    Default Re: Some real Aussie Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterSibley View Post
    There was a very complete tax revue .... the Henry Tax Revue that has been comprehensively ignored by all and sundry.... what a complete wast of time! Frankly any tax reform will be partisan in favour of the party in power's constituents, so much is obvious. A real change in tax policy would require more courage and a bigger electoral margin than seems likely in the foreseeable future.
    Well yes, anything Labor does seems to be more about revue than review. All for show.

    Nobbled before it started by excluding anything to do with GST or Super... or Kevvie's tax promises to the electorate.

    Of course, it did give Jules a motive for her Brutus moment. Revue indeed.
    "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome and charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime" Mark Twain... so... Carpe the living sh!t out of the Diem

    I'd rather look back at my life and say "I can't believe I did that" instead of being there saying "I wish I'd done that"

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    Default Re: Some real Aussie Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by WX View Post
    I doubt it would make any difference no matter what I thought.
    Come on now.... there's no need to feel impotent.
    "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome and charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime" Mark Twain... so... Carpe the living sh!t out of the Diem

    I'd rather look back at my life and say "I can't believe I did that" instead of being there saying "I wish I'd done that"

  28. #63
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    Default Re: Some real Aussie Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by The Bigfella View Post
    Come on now.... there's no need to feel impotent.
    Hmm two major parties more interested in nobbling each other than actually attempting to tackle serious tax reform.
    As for the bamboo. Once I had a small business, now I don't. ..so it goes.
    My take is that if you poke someone with a sharp stick they'll get annoyed, if you smile and shake their hand they will be your friends.

    John Welsford

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    Default Re: Some real Aussie Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by WX View Post
    Hmm two major parties more interested in nobbling each other than actually attempting to tackle serious tax reform.
    As for the bamboo. Once I had a small business, now I don't. ..so it goes.
    Umm.... the Labor / Green alliance weren't serious, the current mob seem to be. How can you equate the two positions? The last Labor mob prepared to tackle things was Hawke/Keating. They did some good work, but since then, as Peter says, its all about how Labor puts on it's Revue. All show, no go.
    "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome and charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime" Mark Twain... so... Carpe the living sh!t out of the Diem

    I'd rather look back at my life and say "I can't believe I did that" instead of being there saying "I wish I'd done that"

  30. #65
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    Default Re: Some real Aussie Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by The Bigfella View Post
    Umm.... the Labor / Green alliance weren't serious, the current mob seem to be. How can you equate the two positions? The last Labor mob prepared to tackle things was Hawke/Keating. They did some good work, but since then, as Peter says, its all about how Labor puts on it's Revue. All show, no go.
    Raise the GST and bugger around with peoples super is not tax reform.
    My take is that if you poke someone with a sharp stick they'll get annoyed, if you smile and shake their hand they will be your friends.

    John Welsford

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    Default Re: Some real Aussie Politics

    But it serves the Lib's demographic. They don't like people without money ...... they're surprisingly Calvinist, wealth being a sign god's grace .
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
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    Default Re: Some real Aussie Politics

    You know Abbott went on about the age of entitlement being over, well if the situation is that bad then I think it's time it drew to a close on political and corporate entitlement as well. For a start politicians should get the same pension and level of health care as everyone else. Last I heard the corporate sector owed over 8 billion dollars in unpaid tax, well it's time they stopped budging off the tax payers and paid their share.
    My take is that if you poke someone with a sharp stick they'll get annoyed, if you smile and shake their hand they will be your friends.

    John Welsford

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    Default Re: Some real Aussie Politics

    Here we go.
    Proposals to make politicians shoulder their share of the weight now that the Age of Entitlement is over:
    1. Scrap political pensions.
    Politicians can purchase their own retirement plan, just as most other working Australians are expected to do.

    2. Retired politicians (past, present & future) participate in Centrelink.
    A Politician collects a substantial salary while in office but should receive no salary when they're out of office.
    Terminated politicians under 70 can go get a job or apply for Centrelink unemployment benefits like ordinary Australians.
    Terminated politicians under 70 can negotiate with Centrelink like the rest of the Australian people.

    3. Funds already allocated to the Politicians' retirement fund be returned immediately to Consolidated Revenue.
    4. Politicians will no longer vote themselves a pay raise. Politicians pay will rise by the lower of, either the CPI or 3%.

    5. Politicians lose their privileged health care system and participate in the same health care system as ordinary Australian people.
    i.e. Politicians either pay for private cover from their own funds or accept ordinary Medicare.

    6. Politicians must equally abide by all laws they impose on the Australian people.

    7. All contracts with past and present Politicians men/women are void effective 31/12/14.

    The Australian people did not agree to provide perks to Politicians, that burden was thrust upon them.
    Politicians devised all these contracts to benefit themselves.
    Serving in Parliament is an honour not a career.
    My take is that if you poke someone with a sharp stick they'll get annoyed, if you smile and shake their hand they will be your friends.

    John Welsford

  34. #69
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    Northern NSW Australia
    Posts
    62,184

    Default Re: Some real Aussie Politics

    Now, now Gary, the end of the Age of Entitlement only applies to the 'lower classes' ( as Bronwyn would call them). The top end do very nicely and will continue to do so.... if Hockey has any say in it.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  35. #70
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    victoria, australia. (1 address now)
    Posts
    43,053

    Default Re: Some real Aussie Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by The Bigfella View Post
    I don't recall the full extent of the discussion, but I recall the Industry Super issue as being about having a level playing field. Same with unions.... if someone has control over others' money, it should be transparent and subject to scrutiny. eg audited
    False flag operation. The private providers (read banks) think that 'level playing field' means they get to charge their fees. Most people in industry funds made a decision to join. As far as I know no private business default scheme was an industry fund. QED

    Gary, #68. Some of those are a step too far if you want a better class of representative. But it's the professionalisation and restriction of candidates by the party structures that are the main fault there. Entitlement starts when a just graduated lawyer get's a job with one of the majors with an eye to a career in parliament. At that point holding office becomes more important than serving the nation. And the sector of the population that go into politics are largely the ones we shouldn't have. Add the factional dealings within the majors and it's no wonder the present crew are largley 3rd raters.
    Oddly I think that the Libs an the Nats have a system more likely to recruit outsiders, but Tony is an absolute insider having been a professional politician of the right since Uni days. The Nats need a spinal graft, and amongst their members I think that some of their women offer some hope.
    Last edited by skuthorp; 07-30-2015 at 06:37 PM.

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