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Thread: LYS Build Plans #582

  1. #106
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    Lakeland, Florida
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    88

    Default Re: LYS Build Plans #582

    For what its worth, I finally did some scarfs for the rub rail and they were not that hard, but there was extra work and tooling etc. At the point in the build where the side skins are joined, I was not ready to take on scarfing. Also this is a place where the plans are pretty clear and straightforward. Give Walter a call, he may have some ideas on the subject. I am pretty sure the butt joint is truer to the workboat/fast-build heritage, but you are building Your Boat, so you get to decide.

    John

  2. #107

    Default Re: LYS Build Plans #582

    Quote Originally Posted by ririzarry View Post
    Thanks for the feedback. I'm at the "do I scarf or do I butt joint" step in a build so I was curious. I've read all the "scarfs are easy" posts but they still make me a bit nervous.
    And remember, scarfing uses up material. If you do an 8:1 scarf in 1/2" plywood, you will lose 4 inches when you combine to two 8' long panels. Since the design is premised on the side panels being 16' long, this will change the shape of the boat. If you want to avoid the butt blocks, a Payson joint would be a better option.

  3. #108
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Damascus, OR
    Posts
    123

    Default Re: LYS Build Plans #582

    Quote Originally Posted by Christopher Morgan View Post
    And remember, scarfing uses up material. If you do an 8:1 scarf in 1/2" plywood, you will lose 4 inches when you combine to two 8' long panels. Since the design is premised on the side panels being 16' long, this will change the shape of the boat. If you want to avoid the butt blocks, a Payson joint would be a better option.
    I agree on the butt block statement. Although you can see dimples in low angle light where the screws are there is no hard spot and the curve is fair. I am sure if I had spent more time on finishing effort it would be invisible.

    Good luck

  4. #109

    Default Re: LYS Build Plans #582

    Quote Originally Posted by ririzarry View Post
    Thanks for the feedback. I'm at the "do I scarf or do I butt joint" step in a build so I was curious. I've read all the "scarfs are easy" posts but they still make me a bit nervous.

    Everybody loves a good joint
    http://seascull.blogspot.com/2014/02/scarphing-101.html
    Last edited by Mo 'Poxy; 01-10-2018 at 12:32 AM.

  5. #110
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Location
    Conroe,Texas,USA
    Posts
    9

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ririzarry View Post
    Thanks for the feedback. I'm at the "do I scarf or do I butt joint" step in a build so I was curious. I've read all the "scarfs are easy" posts but they still make me a bit nervous.


    I went with the butt joints and am pleased. Those plywood scarf joints still don’t seem as strong to me. One thing I consider is that the joint in the side panels is pretty much at the widest beam position and is therefore under the heaviest load during the bending of the panels. A butt makes a lot of sense there


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  6. #111
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    st.louis mo.
    Posts
    53

    Default Re: LYS Build Plans #582

    With a scarf you are adhering all layers of the plywood. With a butt joint, unless you are using mechanical fastening as well as epoxy your bond is only to the outer ply.
    Simmons Sea Skiff build photos here:
    https://photos.app.goo.gl/vxuQDZI0Dz7qjzAx1

  7. #112
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    Lakeland, Florida
    Posts
    88

    Default Re: LYS Build Plans #582

    Good point Figo.

    In the case of the LYS side skin butt joints, the plan calls for glue and screw, so there are mechanical fasteners as well. In mine there were 10-20 screws in the butt joint as well as sikaflex adhesive. I am comfortable with the strength of the joint. About the only issue I have/had with the butt joint is possibly that it may look smoother without the butt plate on the inside. It is a work boat, so this is minor to me.

    John
    Last edited by shuffjb; 01-10-2018 at 12:10 PM. Reason: typos

  8. #113
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Location
    Conroe,Texas,USA
    Posts
    9

    Default Re: LYS Build Plans #582

    I second that Figo. I didn’t mention that my joint was screwed as well thereby providing a pretty strong connection given the foot of available gluing and screwing surface. Cosmetically it might be covered up with a storage compartment in that area.

  9. #114
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    st.louis mo.
    Posts
    53

    Default Re: LYS Build Plans #582

    That works! I always prefer a mechanical connection, but I actually like making scarf joints.
    Five minutes or less with a sharp block plane.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Simmons Sea Skiff build photos here:
    https://photos.app.goo.gl/vxuQDZI0Dz7qjzAx1

  10. #115
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    Lakeland, Florida
    Posts
    88

    Default Re: LYS Build Plans #582

    Nice looking scarf Figo! Fun discussion as well. I always learn stuff here.

    Now that I have done some scarfed joints, they will play a part in future projects for sure.

    John

  11. #116

    Default Re: LYS Build Plans #582

    Quote Originally Posted by sandbarboats View Post
    I second that Figo. I didnít mention that my joint was screwed as well thereby providing a pretty strong connection given the foot of available gluing and screwing surface. Cosmetically it might be covered up with a storage compartment in that area.
    Screws bad. They can wiggle loose allowing a path for water intrusion, like mine did. If poxy/painted over, you will probably see their shadow on the surface in the future, like I do. You will run into them during future maintenance/modifications, like I am. If stainless and sealed in poxy, a nice oxygen-starved environment, they can corrode...scroll down in this link http://www.boatus.com/magazine/2017/...d-warnings.asp

  12. #117
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Location
    Conroe,Texas,USA
    Posts
    9

    Default

    Yeah that thought has haunted me throughout the Build. The challenge is that the entire boat is held together with screws by design. I bedded each screw with sikaflex and will hope for the best. In the end it’s a work boat.


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  13. #118
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Upstate, South Carolina,USA
    Posts
    1,179

    Default Re: LYS Build Plans #582

    I wouldn't worry about it. It was designed to be built that way. Besides, a lot of us know about boats that are held together with bubble gum and duck tape.
    http://bensboatblog.blogspot.com/
    When peeing over the side,remember,one hand for you,and one hand for the ship.
    Proud Member Of The Elite LPBC.

  14. #119
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    Lakeland, Florida
    Posts
    88

    Default Re: LYS Build Plans #582

    Good point Ben. I remember a thread pointing out that a lot of boats don't even last long enough to have corrosion problems. I will be glad to get 5-10 years and maybe pass it on to someone.

  15. #120
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Upstate, South Carolina,USA
    Posts
    1,179

    Default Re: LYS Build Plans #582

    Quote Originally Posted by shuffjb View Post
    Good point Ben. I remember a thread pointing out that a lot of boats don't even last long enough to have corrosion problems. I will be glad to get 5-10 years and maybe pass it on to someone.
    .....
    http://bensboatblog.blogspot.com/
    When peeing over the side,remember,one hand for you,and one hand for the ship.
    Proud Member Of The Elite LPBC.

  16. #121

    Default Re: LYS Build Plans #582

    Quote Originally Posted by shuffjb View Post
    I will be glad to get 5-10 years.
    Ain't nuthin wrong with building a short-life boat. Done it a few times meself.

    Once built a POS scow to haul lumber to a remote cabin building site. Used screws to secure the plywood sheathing to the frames. She leaked bad. My mate had to man a hand pump constantly to remove the water that leaked in thru the screw holes. http://moremotecabin.blogspot.com/20...ove-cabin.html

    Planned to burn her after I no longer needed her but my brother took her, flipped her, put her on stilts and created a tool shed.








    But "pass it on" is not the way I roll.

  17. #122
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Upstate, South Carolina,USA
    Posts
    1,179

    Default Re: LYS Build Plans #582

    Quote Originally Posted by Mo 'Poxy View Post
    Ain't nuthin wrong with building a short-life boat. Done it a few times meself.

    Once built a POS scow to haul lumber to a remote cabin building site. Used screws to secure the plywood sheathing to the frames. She leaked bad. My mate had to man a hand pump constantly to remove the water that leaked in thru the screw holes. http://moremotecabin.blogspot.com/20...ove-cabin.html

    Planned to burn her after I no longer needed her but my brother took her, flipped her, put her on stilts and created a tool shed.








    But "pass it on" is not the way I roll.
    I've built a few knock together boats like the one pictured and canoes too, just so I could reach areas of small lakes and ponds to catch the good fish.
    http://bensboatblog.blogspot.com/
    When peeing over the side,remember,one hand for you,and one hand for the ship.
    Proud Member Of The Elite LPBC.

  18. #123
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Location
    Conroe,Texas,USA
    Posts
    9

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ben2go View Post
    I've built a few knock together boats like the one pictured and canoes too, just so I could reach areas of small lakes and ponds to catch the good fish.


    Yeah I’ve don’t quite a few quickie boats with low expectations for longevity. I built Hanna’s Dug. With zero hardware or fiberglass using only one sheet of plywood and a tube of PL Premium. http://hvartial.kapsi.fi/oss3/oss3.htm

    It came out surprisingly well.


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