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Thread: LYS Build Plans #582

  1. #106
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    Default Re: LYS Build Plans #582

    For what its worth, I finally did some scarfs for the rub rail and they were not that hard, but there was extra work and tooling etc. At the point in the build where the side skins are joined, I was not ready to take on scarfing. Also this is a place where the plans are pretty clear and straightforward. Give Walter a call, he may have some ideas on the subject. I am pretty sure the butt joint is truer to the workboat/fast-build heritage, but you are building Your Boat, so you get to decide.

    John

  2. #107

    Default Re: LYS Build Plans #582

    Quote Originally Posted by ririzarry View Post
    Thanks for the feedback. I'm at the "do I scarf or do I butt joint" step in a build so I was curious. I've read all the "scarfs are easy" posts but they still make me a bit nervous.
    And remember, scarfing uses up material. If you do an 8:1 scarf in 1/2" plywood, you will lose 4 inches when you combine to two 8' long panels. Since the design is premised on the side panels being 16' long, this will change the shape of the boat. If you want to avoid the butt blocks, a Payson joint would be a better option.

  3. #108
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    Default Re: LYS Build Plans #582

    Quote Originally Posted by Christopher Morgan View Post
    And remember, scarfing uses up material. If you do an 8:1 scarf in 1/2" plywood, you will lose 4 inches when you combine to two 8' long panels. Since the design is premised on the side panels being 16' long, this will change the shape of the boat. If you want to avoid the butt blocks, a Payson joint would be a better option.
    I agree on the butt block statement. Although you can see dimples in low angle light where the screws are there is no hard spot and the curve is fair. I am sure if I had spent more time on finishing effort it would be invisible.

    Good luck

  4. #109
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    Default Re: LYS Build Plans #582

    Quote Originally Posted by ririzarry View Post
    Thanks for the feedback. I'm at the "do I scarf or do I butt joint" step in a build so I was curious. I've read all the "scarfs are easy" posts but they still make me a bit nervous.

    Everybody loves a good joint
    http://seascull.blogspot.com/2014/02/scarphing-101.html
    Last edited by Mo 'Poxy; 01-10-2018 at 12:32 AM.

  5. #110
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ririzarry View Post
    Thanks for the feedback. I'm at the "do I scarf or do I butt joint" step in a build so I was curious. I've read all the "scarfs are easy" posts but they still make me a bit nervous.


    I went with the butt joints and am pleased. Those plywood scarf joints still don’t seem as strong to me. One thing I consider is that the joint in the side panels is pretty much at the widest beam position and is therefore under the heaviest load during the bending of the panels. A butt makes a lot of sense there


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  6. #111
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    Default Re: LYS Build Plans #582

    With a scarf you are adhering all layers of the plywood. With a butt joint, unless you are using mechanical fastening as well as epoxy your bond is only to the outer ply.
    Simmons Sea Skiff build photos here:
    https://photos.app.goo.gl/vxuQDZI0Dz7qjzAx1

  7. #112
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    Default Re: LYS Build Plans #582

    Good point Figo.

    In the case of the LYS side skin butt joints, the plan calls for glue and screw, so there are mechanical fasteners as well. In mine there were 10-20 screws in the butt joint as well as sikaflex adhesive. I am comfortable with the strength of the joint. About the only issue I have/had with the butt joint is possibly that it may look smoother without the butt plate on the inside. It is a work boat, so this is minor to me.

    John
    Last edited by shuffjb; 01-10-2018 at 12:10 PM. Reason: typos

  8. #113
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    Default Re: LYS Build Plans #582

    I second that Figo. I didn’t mention that my joint was screwed as well thereby providing a pretty strong connection given the foot of available gluing and screwing surface. Cosmetically it might be covered up with a storage compartment in that area.

  9. #114
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    Default Re: LYS Build Plans #582

    That works! I always prefer a mechanical connection, but I actually like making scarf joints.
    Five minutes or less with a sharp block plane.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Simmons Sea Skiff build photos here:
    https://photos.app.goo.gl/vxuQDZI0Dz7qjzAx1

  10. #115
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    Default Re: LYS Build Plans #582

    Nice looking scarf Figo! Fun discussion as well. I always learn stuff here.

    Now that I have done some scarfed joints, they will play a part in future projects for sure.

    John

  11. #116
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    Default Re: LYS Build Plans #582

    Quote Originally Posted by sandbarboats View Post
    I second that Figo. I didnít mention that my joint was screwed as well thereby providing a pretty strong connection given the foot of available gluing and screwing surface. Cosmetically it might be covered up with a storage compartment in that area.
    Screws bad. They can wiggle loose allowing a path for water intrusion, like mine did. If poxy/painted over, you will probably see their shadow on the surface in the future, like I do. You will run into them during future maintenance/modifications, like I am. If stainless and sealed in poxy, a nice oxygen-starved environment, they can corrode...scroll down in this link http://www.boatus.com/magazine/2017/...d-warnings.asp

  12. #117
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    Yeah that thought has haunted me throughout the Build. The challenge is that the entire boat is held together with screws by design. I bedded each screw with sikaflex and will hope for the best. In the end it’s a work boat.


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  13. #118
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    Default Re: LYS Build Plans #582

    I wouldn't worry about it. It was designed to be built that way. Besides, a lot of us know about boats that are held together with bubble gum and duck tape.
    This sig line is proudly provided by The Wooden Boat Magazine Forum. If it ain't The Wooden Boat Mag, it just a rag.

  14. #119
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    Default Re: LYS Build Plans #582

    Good point Ben. I remember a thread pointing out that a lot of boats don't even last long enough to have corrosion problems. I will be glad to get 5-10 years and maybe pass it on to someone.

  15. #120
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    Default Re: LYS Build Plans #582

    Quote Originally Posted by shuffjb View Post
    Good point Ben. I remember a thread pointing out that a lot of boats don't even last long enough to have corrosion problems. I will be glad to get 5-10 years and maybe pass it on to someone.
    .....
    This sig line is proudly provided by The Wooden Boat Magazine Forum. If it ain't The Wooden Boat Mag, it just a rag.

  16. #121
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    Default Re: LYS Build Plans #582

    Quote Originally Posted by shuffjb View Post
    I will be glad to get 5-10 years.
    Ain't nuthin wrong with building a short-life boat. Done it a few times meself.

    Once built a POS scow to haul lumber to a remote cabin building site. Used screws to secure the plywood sheathing to the frames. She leaked bad. My mate had to man a hand pump constantly to remove the water that leaked in thru the screw holes. http://moremotecabin.blogspot.com/20...ove-cabin.html

    Planned to burn her after I no longer needed her but my brother took her, flipped her, put her on stilts and created a tool shed.








    But "pass it on" is not the way I roll.

  17. #122
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    Default Re: LYS Build Plans #582

    Quote Originally Posted by Mo 'Poxy View Post
    Ain't nuthin wrong with building a short-life boat. Done it a few times meself.

    Once built a POS scow to haul lumber to a remote cabin building site. Used screws to secure the plywood sheathing to the frames. She leaked bad. My mate had to man a hand pump constantly to remove the water that leaked in thru the screw holes. http://moremotecabin.blogspot.com/20...ove-cabin.html

    Planned to burn her after I no longer needed her but my brother took her, flipped her, put her on stilts and created a tool shed.








    But "pass it on" is not the way I roll.
    I've built a few knock together boats like the one pictured and canoes too, just so I could reach areas of small lakes and ponds to catch the good fish.
    This sig line is proudly provided by The Wooden Boat Magazine Forum. If it ain't The Wooden Boat Mag, it just a rag.

  18. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by ben2go View Post
    I've built a few knock together boats like the one pictured and canoes too, just so I could reach areas of small lakes and ponds to catch the good fish.


    Yeah I’ve don’t quite a few quickie boats with low expectations for longevity. I built Hanna’s Dug. With zero hardware or fiberglass using only one sheet of plywood and a tube of PL Premium. http://hvartial.kapsi.fi/oss3/oss3.htm

    It came out surprisingly well.


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  19. #124
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    Default Re: LYS Build Plans #582

    Update with more progress pictures...

    Drill, fill, drill for 1 inch drain tube. Had a void on the outside, but the wood-flour filled resin is solid through the drilled hole. Will just fill the void with quick fair.

    20171229_122027_sm.jpg

    Sand, prime, sand, fair, sand, fair, sand, fair, sigh. Seems to go on forever, but finally have both colors painted where they can be seen together. First coats, but I am happy with the color scheme and paint system. Pettit EasyPoxy, the interior and decks are grand banks beige, the hull is ocean blue. Wide shot showing the transom.

    20180206_095321_sm.jpg

    Narrow shot of port rub-rail and transom (still a bit of blue painters tape on the starboard edge of the rub-rail). Both shots are the same paint, for the narrow shot I lowered the garage door a bit to kill the direct sunlight. Really changes how the color looks.

    20180206_095438_sm.jpg

    continuing with prime, sand, fill cycles on the interior until I am ready for color everywhere, then prime, sand fill the rest of the exterior, and my reward will be getting to apply color everywhere.

    John

  20. #125
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    You got the gloss looking nice. Mine doesn’t have near as nice of a finish. I just added shiny metal objects to distract the eye.


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  21. #126
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    Default Re: LYS Build Plans #582

    Sandbar,

    Good looking finish! I have that same (or a very similar) bollard, so we will be the same there. I like the side navigation lights. One less thing to clutter the decks. Your boat looks ready for the water! looking forward to seeing splash pictures.

    John

  22. #127
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    Thanks John, I’m hanging the motor on it this Saturday. That and installing the steering. Then it’s off to Texas Parks and Wildlife to prove that I paid taxes and get it legal!


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  23. #128
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    Default Re: LYS Build Plans #582

    Long time no post. It seems a lot of build threads sort of trail off near the end and I see why now. Once the boat is in the water, you don't have the time or inclination to sit in front of the computer daydreaming about the build. So, here are some final thoughts on the build and some spash pictures.

    Mask and Paint the rest of the topsides:

    20180220_120347.jpg

    20180222_143910.jpg

    Still have the pink scooter.

    Continued next post...

  24. #129
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    Default Re: LYS Build Plans #582

    Painting is really quick compared to all the prep.


    Outside finished except for rub rails (still working on rigging inside the console):

    20180423_183852.jpg

    Console setup, cooler seat, motor rigged:

    20180423_183921.jpg

    Continued ...

  25. #130
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    Default Re: LYS Build Plans #582

    Splash Day:

    Here she sits in a local lake:

    20180424_103130.jpg

    and a different lake a few days later:

    20180501_152103.jpg

    This splash was to fix the trailer bunk setup. I had the bunks way to high and I needed to tie them together so they would stay flat.

    Still to do:
    - Increase propeller pitch (currently 11 and it overrevs, so going to 12 or 13)
    - Install Rub Rail (tessilmare R30)
    - Finnish rigging Navigation lights
    - Attach cushions for cooler seat and front of console

    Then it is time to ride in the boat instead of working on it, yeah!

    Thanks for all the help and knowledge you guys and gals have provided.

    John

  26. #131
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    Default Re: LYS Build Plans #582

    Looks great John! I've been looking at that cooler seat for my boat. How does it fit back there? I know space is tight between the console and the transom if you placed the console according to plans. Right you are about being too busy playing with the boat to bother posting. I'm on the water most weekends now.

  27. #132
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    Default Re: LYS Build Plans #582

    Awesome. Glad to see it on the water! makes me more anxious to start my build.

  28. #133
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    Default Re: LYS Build Plans #582

    Thanks for the kind words!

    I actually moved the console forward a bit. The aft face of the console is 6" in front of the rear 2X8 butt block. I have the cooler seat 5" behind back edge of the butt block, this gives me approximately 18" between the seat and the console which turned out to be a bit tight when standing. Very comfortable when seated. I should have allowed another 3-4" because the wheel is on the aft face instead of on an angle as my first design had it. There is still room to turn around and face the motor, you just have to watch where you put your feet (fuel hoses, control cables, etc.). The seat is sitting up on 2x4 blocks that I epoxied to the sole. This makes it level with the 2x8 butt block so that your feet don't sit too high, plus it gives me something to attach the seat to (don't want to run a lag bolt through the bottom of the boat).

    After I have run it a bit more, I may extend the 2x4 blocks and move the seat back a bit further if the tight quarters while standing still bothers me. The backward facing mode is mostly for fishing and I don't do that every time, so if I have to choose tighter seating for backwards fishing vs. more comfort standing at the helm, I am good with that.

    John

  29. #134
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    Default Re: LYS Build Plans #582

    One more report on performance:

    I have not weighed the boat/motor fully rigged boat, but I guess it is 750-850 or so. Call it 1000 lb. with me on board.

    The motor is a 25hp Mercury 2 stroke with an 11 pitch aluminum prop. It gets on plane well and zips right along.

    The prop overrevs, but when I keep it at 5500, I can get 20 knots. I am hoping to get up to at least 25 with a properly pitched prop. More on that as I get results.

    John

  30. #135
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    Default Re: LYS Build Plans #582

    Well done getting it in the water - it looks great. It's really interesting to watch how people solve different problems for the same situation. I opted for removable swiveling chairs so I can pick and choose how much seating I need. I found I rarely sit down unless drifting around on a lake in the sunshine. Crabbing keeps me on my feet so I opted for no seating behind the console.

    I too should have gone with a 20" instead of 24" console. An extra couple of inches on either side would have been appreciated. Your build has really turned out nice and you will definitely enjoy fooling around in her. I launched mine last August and have had it out in the rivers and bays several times since then and actually put her to work:

    124.jpg

    I am also curious if you have experienced any motor splash/wash at full throttle into the stern? I am thinking my motor is sitting a tad low. It's not really a big deal as it doesn't contribute any more water than a crab pot but wasn't sure if this was common. I am running a two stroke, long shaft Evinrude 25.

  31. #136
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    Default Re: LYS Build Plans #582

    Thanks PNWCrabber!

    Good looking catch there, makes me hungry! We do blue crabs here in florida, I am inspired to go try for some.

    As for motor splash, I have not had any so far. I am running 20" (long shaft) 25 hp Mercury. It has some of those hydrofoils on the anti ventilation plate, maybe that tames the splash into the transom. My transom height is 20" and the anti ventilation plate sits less than an inch below the bottom of the transom.

    I am considering making the cooler seat easy to remove so that if I am fishing/crabbing and need the deck space it will be easy to get. Just sit on a bucket when I need to. The rear seat eats up a lot of deck, but returns more storage for life jackets, etc. As you say, the seat is for cruising around which is my main mission for now.

    Cheers,
    John

  32. #137
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    Default Re: LYS Build Plans #582

    I think the hydrofoil is the answer on that issue. I am curious, where did you put your battery (if you have one) and how did you route your controls? I think there are a number of ways to do this but always interested in how others manage. My motor was old enough I had to use the standoff steering bracket but it worked out well.

  33. #138
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    Default Re: LYS Build Plans #582

    The Battery is sitting in the console. I struggled with the design of this. My original plan was to put the 6 gal. portable tank there figuring that longer fuel lines do not cause a loss of power the same way that longer wires do with a battery. After looking at the output of the alternator on my motor (9 amps) I decided that 8 ft. of #8 wire would deliver that current sufficiently to start and charge (plus I always plan on using a smart/trickle charger when she is in the garage). Putting the fuel forward also changes weight as it gets used (around 6 lb. per gallon). In the end, fuel is by the transom, battery in the console.

    The controls are routed down the center under the cooler seat. I struggled with this also and I am not sure I have it right even now. My first plan was PVC conduit, but I worried about getting water trapped in there that I couldn't drain. I think I am just going to bundle the controls (separate bundle for the electric) and strap them in place every 18 inches or so. At the moment they are just sort of laying there. I wanted to get them up off the sole so that they wouldn't get wet from small amounts of standing water. I think I will accomplish that by putting them up on starboard where they are clamped. As for steering, I am using the standard Teleflex push/pull through the tilt tube. It has a big radius loop out of the motor down to the bottom of the transom, then another turn to go down the centerline to the console. I will get some closeups and post them later.

  34. #139
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    Default Re: LYS Build Plans #582

    Update on performance:


    I tried a 13 pitch prop and found it to be too much. With 2 people on board I could not get above 5000 rpm and about 12 knots. Ordered an 11 pitch prop to replace the one that came with the motor (which had lots of dents and dings on the edges and seemed worn down). When the 11 pitch prop arrived, put it on the boat and performance was much better than the original 11 pitch. I have not run it solo with the new prop yet, but with 4 folks on board I am getting 13 knots and 2 folks I am getting 16 knots, so much better.


    I have put the rub rail on and it is a big help for all the bouncing against the dock. I use fenders too, but some bumps still happen.


    I will be doing salt water trials soon in Tampa Bay and the Banana River, so more reports when I have had a few more runs.


    John

  35. #140
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    Default Re: LYS Build Plans #582

    Awesome to see her on the water. Looks great and sounds like it performs well. Now get out there and enjoy it!

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