Cheap rigging knive?

[Eric R]

Hello, all. I haven't posted for a while since I got this new username, but for those of you who remember, I used to be Bob Aberton.

At any rate, I'm a freshman at Maine Maritime Academy this fall, in the Auxiliary Sail program, hence my need for a rigging knife.

The other day I picked up a knife for $8.00 at Hamilton Marine - ugly red plastic handle, too sharp a point, but the blade is high carbon Swedish steel, seems like it'll take a nice edge.

If anyone's familiar with the Hamilton Marine catalog, it's the Frosts Sport Knife - item "K," page 75 of the new catalog. The catalog lists the blade as stainless, but mine like I said is something called "high carbon" steel. High carbon is the good stuff, right?

What I already know I have to do to make it a good knife: grind down the point so it's slightly less murderous, make a good leather sheath for it, and (not necessary but...) do something about that red plastic handle (I was thinking of a couple of turk's heads, once I figure out how to make them).

So what would I have to do to make it a workable rigging knife? Can it be done? Should I give up trying to outfit myself on the cheap and spring for a Myerchin instead (I know Myerchin would be better quality, but I'm just starting out as a sailor and I'm a poor college student)?

Sorry I can't post pics of the knife in question, got no camera. I'll try and put a link on here to the Hamilton catalog. Thanks in advance for helping out a neophyte sailor.

[Eric R]

Hello, all. I haven't posted for a while since I got this new username, but for those of you who remember, I used to be Bob Aberton.

At any rate, I'm a freshman at Maine Maritime Academy this fall, in the Auxiliary Sail program, hence my need for a rigging knife.

The other day I picked up a knife for $8.00 at Hamilton Marine - ugly red plastic handle, too sharp a point, but the blade is high carbon Swedish steel, seems like it'll take a nice edge.

If anyone's familiar with the Hamilton Marine catalog, it's the Frosts Sport Knife - item "K," page 75 of the new catalog. The catalog lists the blade as stainless, but mine like I said is something called "high carbon" steel. High carbon is the good stuff, right?

What I already know I have to do to make it a good knife: grind down the point so it's slightly less murderous, make a good leather sheath for it, and (not necessary but...) do something about that red plastic handle (I was thinking of a couple of turk's heads, once I figure out how to make them).

So what would I have to do to make it a workable rigging knife? Can it be done? Should I give up trying to outfit myself on the cheap and spring for a Myerchin instead (I know Myerchin would be better quality, but I'm just starting out as a sailor and I'm a poor college student)?

Sorry I can't post pics of the knife in question, got no camera. I'll try and put a link on here to the Hamilton catalog. Thanks in advance for helping out a neophyte sailor.

[Eric R]

Hello, all. I haven't posted for a while since I got this new username, but for those of you who remember, I used to be Bob Aberton.

At any rate, I'm a freshman at Maine Maritime Academy this fall, in the Auxiliary Sail program, hence my need for a rigging knife.

The other day I picked up a knife for $8.00 at Hamilton Marine - ugly red plastic handle, too sharp a point, but the blade is high carbon Swedish steel, seems like it'll take a nice edge.

If anyone's familiar with the Hamilton Marine catalog, it's the Frosts Sport Knife - item "K," page 75 of the new catalog. The catalog lists the blade as stainless, but mine like I said is something called "high carbon" steel. High carbon is the good stuff, right?

What I already know I have to do to make it a good knife: grind down the point so it's slightly less murderous, make a good leather sheath for it, and (not necessary but...) do something about that red plastic handle (I was thinking of a couple of turk's heads, once I figure out how to make them).

So what would I have to do to make it a workable rigging knife? Can it be done? Should I give up trying to outfit myself on the cheap and spring for a Myerchin instead (I know Myerchin would be better quality, but I'm just starting out as a sailor and I'm a poor college student)?

Sorry I can't post pics of the knife in question, got no camera. I'll try and put a link on here to the Hamilton catalog. Thanks in advance for helping out a neophyte sailor.

[Eric R]

Here's the knife in question:

http://www.hamiltonmarine.com/browse.cfm/4,19677.html

Although, like I said, the blade on mine is "high carbon" Swedish steel, not stainless. And I got mine for $8, rather than the list price [img]smile.gif[/img] .

The design of the blade is more or less identical, however, as is the design of the handle. It's an ugly knife, I know, but could it work?

[Eric R]

Here's the knife in question:

http://www.hamiltonmarine.com/browse.cfm/4,19677.html

Although, like I said, the blade on mine is "high carbon" Swedish steel, not stainless. And I got mine for $8, rather than the list price [img]smile.gif[/img] .

The design of the blade is more or less identical, however, as is the design of the handle. It's an ugly knife, I know, but could it work?

[Eric R]

Here's the knife in question:

http://www.hamiltonmarine.com/browse.cfm/4,19677.html

Although, like I said, the blade on mine is "high carbon" Swedish steel, not stainless. And I got mine for $8, rather than the list price [img]smile.gif[/img] .

The design of the blade is more or less identical, however, as is the design of the handle. It's an ugly knife, I know, but could it work?

[Bob Smalser]

Look at this thread:

http://woodenboat-ubb.com/ubb/ultima...c;f=4;t=002504

Almost any knife serves in a pinch, but what makes a rigging knife a lifetime tool is a blade back at least an 8th of an inch thick that can be hit repeatedly with a mallet to cut line.

[Bob Smalser]

Look at this thread:

http://woodenboat-ubb.com/ubb/ultima...c;f=4;t=002504

Almost any knife serves in a pinch, but what makes a rigging knife a lifetime tool is a blade back at least an 8th of an inch thick that can be hit repeatedly with a mallet to cut line.

[Bob Smalser]

Look at this thread:

http://woodenboat-ubb.com/ubb/ultima...c;f=4;t=002504

Almost any knife serves in a pinch, but what makes a rigging knife a lifetime tool is a blade back at least an 8th of an inch thick that can be hit repeatedly with a mallet to cut line.

[DrakeChristensen]

Hey Bob, here's a novice question: you describe the leather as 'vegetable tanned tooling leather' so - knowing nothing about leather work - I search for that on eBay and the web which returns several different weights from 3oz up to 9oz or so. What weight did you use for this project? Does the weight matter for a project like this?

[DrakeChristensen]

Hey Bob, here's a novice question: you describe the leather as 'vegetable tanned tooling leather' so - knowing nothing about leather work - I search for that on eBay and the web which returns several different weights from 3oz up to 9oz or so. What weight did you use for this project? Does the weight matter for a project like this?

[DrakeChristensen]

Hey Bob, here's a novice question: you describe the leather as 'vegetable tanned tooling leather' so - knowing nothing about leather work - I search for that on eBay and the web which returns several different weights from 3oz up to 9oz or so. What weight did you use for this project? Does the weight matter for a project like this?

[Bob Smalser]

Sure, weight matters. 3oz is so light it can be sewn on Mom's Singer.

7-8oz leather is around an 8th thick, which is what I usually use.

There are two basic tanning processes these days...vegetable and chrome. Chrome is for shoes and won't shrink. Vegetable soaks, stretches and shrinks and is a better choice for your projects, as it is very forgiving.

[Bob Smalser]

Sure, weight matters. 3oz is so light it can be sewn on Mom's Singer.

7-8oz leather is around an 8th thick, which is what I usually use.

There are two basic tanning processes these days...vegetable and chrome. Chrome is for shoes and won't shrink. Vegetable soaks, stretches and shrinks and is a better choice for your projects, as it is very forgiving.

[Bob Smalser]

Sure, weight matters. 3oz is so light it can be sewn on Mom's Singer.

7-8oz leather is around an 8th thick, which is what I usually use.

There are two basic tanning processes these days...vegetable and chrome. Chrome is for shoes and won't shrink. Vegetable soaks, stretches and shrinks and is a better choice for your projects, as it is very forgiving.

[Kim Whitmyre]

This has been working out for me:



It's a Gerber sheeps' foot tip, serrated blade. I drilled the handle for the lanyard. There is a belt clip on the other side. The knife goes for around $30 at the Borg. Slices thru rope like butter.

I lusted after the David Boyes dendritic steel rigging knife, but the funds just weren't there at the time. . .

Kim

[Kim Whitmyre]

This has been working out for me:



It's a Gerber sheeps' foot tip, serrated blade. I drilled the handle for the lanyard. There is a belt clip on the other side. The knife goes for around $30 at the Borg. Slices thru rope like butter.

I lusted after the David Boyes dendritic steel rigging knife, but the funds just weren't there at the time. . .

Kim

[Kim Whitmyre]

This has been working out for me:



It's a Gerber sheeps' foot tip, serrated blade. I drilled the handle for the lanyard. There is a belt clip on the other side. The knife goes for around $30 at the Borg. Slices thru rope like butter.

I lusted after the David Boyes dendritic steel rigging knife, but the funds just weren't there at the time. . .

Kim

[Matt Cohen]

http://www.jamestowndistributors.com...Rigging.Knives

Under $8 for the stainless rigging knife from Jamestown complete with blade, Marlin spike and splicing eye.

[Matt Cohen]

http://www.jamestowndistributors.com...Rigging.Knives

Under $8 for the stainless rigging knife from Jamestown complete with blade, Marlin spike and splicing eye.

[Matt Cohen]

http://www.jamestowndistributors.com...Rigging.Knives

Under $8 for the stainless rigging knife from Jamestown complete with blade, Marlin spike and splicing eye.

[weheritage]

Do you mean "cheep" or "moderately priced". I have a Buck that wasn't inexpensive but it won't hold an edge. I still love it though.

[weheritage]

Do you mean "cheep" or "moderately priced". I have a Buck that wasn't inexpensive but it won't hold an edge. I still love it though.

[weheritage]

Do you mean "cheep" or "moderately priced". I have a Buck that wasn't inexpensive but it won't hold an edge. I still love it though.

[P.I. Stazzer-Newt]

Eric said:<hr>What I already know I have to do to make it a good knife: grind down the point so it's slightly less murderous, make a good leather sheath for it, and (not necessary but...) do something about that red plastic handle (I was thinking of a couple of turk's heads, once I figure out how to make them).<hr>

Not so fast grasshopper. If you grind down the point, you'll probably need to re-temper the blade - with a plastic handle this may be a fraught process.
Wait till you get to school then ask an expert - the knife may be fine as is - no need to rush.

[P.I. Stazzer-Newt]

Eric said:<hr>What I already know I have to do to make it a good knife: grind down the point so it's slightly less murderous, make a good leather sheath for it, and (not necessary but...) do something about that red plastic handle (I was thinking of a couple of turk's heads, once I figure out how to make them).<hr>

Not so fast grasshopper. If you grind down the point, you'll probably need to re-temper the blade - with a plastic handle this may be a fraught process.
Wait till you get to school then ask an expert - the knife may be fine as is - no need to rush.

[P.I. Stazzer-Newt]

Eric said:<hr>What I already know I have to do to make it a good knife: grind down the point so it's slightly less murderous, make a good leather sheath for it, and (not necessary but...) do something about that red plastic handle (I was thinking of a couple of turk's heads, once I figure out how to make them).<hr>

Not so fast grasshopper. If you grind down the point, you'll probably need to re-temper the blade - with a plastic handle this may be a fraught process.
Wait till you get to school then ask an expert - the knife may be fine as is - no need to rush.

[Scott Rosen]

For years I used one of the West Marine cheapies, a lot like the Hamilton Marine or Jamestown ones. It wasn't serrated, though. They're flimsy and don't hold an edge very long, and don't work very well with big rope, but they're handy. And at less than $10, you don't have to worry too much about losing it.

I don't like a serrated blade on a rigging knife. You're not supposed to saw the rope. As Bob said, a sufficiently thick blade with a good, straight edge will cut the bigest rope with just a light tap with a mallet. Small stuff can be cut with just about anything.

I sprung for a Myerchin finally, and it's well worth the cost. You'll have it for a lifetime. But if you're pinched for cash at the moment, get the stainless steel cheapo, but look for one with a non-serrated blade.

[Scott Rosen]

For years I used one of the West Marine cheapies, a lot like the Hamilton Marine or Jamestown ones. It wasn't serrated, though. They're flimsy and don't hold an edge very long, and don't work very well with big rope, but they're handy. And at less than $10, you don't have to worry too much about losing it.

I don't like a serrated blade on a rigging knife. You're not supposed to saw the rope. As Bob said, a sufficiently thick blade with a good, straight edge will cut the bigest rope with just a light tap with a mallet. Small stuff can be cut with just about anything.

I sprung for a Myerchin finally, and it's well worth the cost. You'll have it for a lifetime. But if you're pinched for cash at the moment, get the stainless steel cheapo, but look for one with a non-serrated blade.

[Scott Rosen]

For years I used one of the West Marine cheapies, a lot like the Hamilton Marine or Jamestown ones. It wasn't serrated, though. They're flimsy and don't hold an edge very long, and don't work very well with big rope, but they're handy. And at less than $10, you don't have to worry too much about losing it.

I don't like a serrated blade on a rigging knife. You're not supposed to saw the rope. As Bob said, a sufficiently thick blade with a good, straight edge will cut the bigest rope with just a light tap with a mallet. Small stuff can be cut with just about anything.

I sprung for a Myerchin finally, and it's well worth the cost. You'll have it for a lifetime. But if you're pinched for cash at the moment, get the stainless steel cheapo, but look for one with a non-serrated blade.

[Eric R]

Thanks for your replies, everyone. To clarify: I already have the knife, but it only set me back $8, so I'm not overly concerned if I need to get a new one. It's a fixed blade, non-serrated knife. It's not stainless, but it says "high carbon steel" on the blade - I'm assuming it's some kind of tool steel. The knife is of Swedish make.

As to the point, a sailor friend of mine assures me I should do something about it, as it is a very keen point and I don't really want it in close quarters with my hands on a rocking boat. Is there any way to blunt the point a little or grind it down without spoiling the temper of the blade? Maybe if I just grind it really slowly to avoid heating the steel too much?

At the moment I am rather too strapped for cash to spring for a Myerchin, although I plan to get one eventually. Some friends are looking in the possibility of ordering some Myerchins wholesale so as to get them cheaper, but in the meantime it seems like I'll have to make do with my present knife. I know it's not a lifetime tool, but at only $8, replacing it won't be a huge expense.

Again, thanks for your help everyone.

[Eric R]

Thanks for your replies, everyone. To clarify: I already have the knife, but it only set me back $8, so I'm not overly concerned if I need to get a new one. It's a fixed blade, non-serrated knife. It's not stainless, but it says "high carbon steel" on the blade - I'm assuming it's some kind of tool steel. The knife is of Swedish make.

As to the point, a sailor friend of mine assures me I should do something about it, as it is a very keen point and I don't really want it in close quarters with my hands on a rocking boat. Is there any way to blunt the point a little or grind it down without spoiling the temper of the blade? Maybe if I just grind it really slowly to avoid heating the steel too much?

At the moment I am rather too strapped for cash to spring for a Myerchin, although I plan to get one eventually. Some friends are looking in the possibility of ordering some Myerchins wholesale so as to get them cheaper, but in the meantime it seems like I'll have to make do with my present knife. I know it's not a lifetime tool, but at only $8, replacing it won't be a huge expense.

Again, thanks for your help everyone.

[Eric R]

Thanks for your replies, everyone. To clarify: I already have the knife, but it only set me back $8, so I'm not overly concerned if I need to get a new one. It's a fixed blade, non-serrated knife. It's not stainless, but it says "high carbon steel" on the blade - I'm assuming it's some kind of tool steel. The knife is of Swedish make.

As to the point, a sailor friend of mine assures me I should do something about it, as it is a very keen point and I don't really want it in close quarters with my hands on a rocking boat. Is there any way to blunt the point a little or grind it down without spoiling the temper of the blade? Maybe if I just grind it really slowly to avoid heating the steel too much?

At the moment I am rather too strapped for cash to spring for a Myerchin, although I plan to get one eventually. Some friends are looking in the possibility of ordering some Myerchins wholesale so as to get them cheaper, but in the meantime it seems like I'll have to make do with my present knife. I know it's not a lifetime tool, but at only $8, replacing it won't be a huge expense.

Again, thanks for your help everyone.

[notwoodbut...]

Eric,

Good luck at MMA.
As to the knife, if you're just taking down the point a bit and are concerned about ruining the temper of the blade, why not try the old fashioned way, a hand file. You'll find out pretty quickly how tough the steel is and if it's just too much, you can go back to the wheel (gently). If you can't find a file, drag the point against a concrete wall or curbstone etc. Of course, for an $8 knife, why worry too much about the temper? You're not going to be using the point for much anyway. This is a cutting tool generally, not a piercing tool.
Jim

[notwoodbut...]

Eric,

Good luck at MMA.
As to the knife, if you're just taking down the point a bit and are concerned about ruining the temper of the blade, why not try the old fashioned way, a hand file. You'll find out pretty quickly how tough the steel is and if it's just too much, you can go back to the wheel (gently). If you can't find a file, drag the point against a concrete wall or curbstone etc. Of course, for an $8 knife, why worry too much about the temper? You're not going to be using the point for much anyway. This is a cutting tool generally, not a piercing tool.
Jim

[notwoodbut...]

Eric,

Good luck at MMA.
As to the knife, if you're just taking down the point a bit and are concerned about ruining the temper of the blade, why not try the old fashioned way, a hand file. You'll find out pretty quickly how tough the steel is and if it's just too much, you can go back to the wheel (gently). If you can't find a file, drag the point against a concrete wall or curbstone etc. Of course, for an $8 knife, why worry too much about the temper? You're not going to be using the point for much anyway. This is a cutting tool generally, not a piercing tool.
Jim

[TomF]

If you do go ahead and grind down the point, then keep a cup of cold water beside you at the grinder. If you dip the blade in every few seconds to dissipate the excess heat, all will likely be fine.

...or at least, it will be as fine as you can expect for an $8 knife!

[TomF]

If you do go ahead and grind down the point, then keep a cup of cold water beside you at the grinder. If you dip the blade in every few seconds to dissipate the excess heat, all will likely be fine.

...or at least, it will be as fine as you can expect for an $8 knife!

[TomF]

If you do go ahead and grind down the point, then keep a cup of cold water beside you at the grinder. If you dip the blade in every few seconds to dissipate the excess heat, all will likely be fine.

...or at least, it will be as fine as you can expect for an $8 knife!

[Keith Wilson]

Here's the knife (this link works).



Frost and Erickson are two knife companies out of Mora, Sweden. For general purpose knives, I don't use anything else. They are always cheap, so cheap that people often think they're junk, but IMHO these knives are superb, and one of the very few real bargains in tools. The blades are laminated steel - a thin layer of very hard stuff between tougher and softer outer layers, and they work as well or better than much much more expensive knives. I'd recommend them without reservation even if cost was irrelevant. Lee Valley sells versions with ugly wooden handles.



Disadvantages are rust - damp thoughts will rust the blade, and aesthetics.

Here's another type from Lee Valley; this is the kind I use:



They also sell Frost blades alone so you can make a less repulsive handle yourself:



[ 09-08-2005, 10:15 AM: Message edited by: Keith Wilson ]

[Keith Wilson]

Here's the knife (this link works).



Frost and Erickson are two knife companies out of Mora, Sweden. For general purpose knives, I don't use anything else. They are always cheap, so cheap that people often think they're junk, but IMHO these knives are superb, and one of the very few real bargains in tools. The blades are laminated steel - a thin layer of very hard stuff between tougher and softer outer layers, and they work as well or better than much much more expensive knives. I'd recommend them without reservation even if cost was irrelevant. Lee Valley sells versions with ugly wooden handles.



Disadvantages are rust - damp thoughts will rust the blade, and aesthetics.

Here's another type from Lee Valley; this is the kind I use:



They also sell Frost blades alone so you can make a less repulsive handle yourself:



[ 09-08-2005, 10:15 AM: Message edited by: Keith Wilson ]

[Keith Wilson]

Here's the knife (this link works).



Frost and Erickson are two knife companies out of Mora, Sweden. For general purpose knives, I don't use anything else. They are always cheap, so cheap that people often think they're junk, but IMHO these knives are superb, and one of the very few real bargains in tools. The blades are laminated steel - a thin layer of very hard stuff between tougher and softer outer layers, and they work as well or better than much much more expensive knives. I'd recommend them without reservation even if cost was irrelevant. Lee Valley sells versions with ugly wooden handles.



Disadvantages are rust - damp thoughts will rust the blade, and aesthetics.

Here's another type from Lee Valley; this is the kind I use:



They also sell Frost blades alone so you can make a less repulsive handle yourself:



[ 09-08-2005, 10:15 AM: Message edited by: Keith Wilson ]

[TomF]

I've used one of those ugly-handled knives from Lee Valley for a bunch of years. Very good value, and frankly, the handles are comfortable in a whole range of hand positions. Because of the quality of the blade, the comfort of the handle, and the price (!), I bought one of these as a first knife for my older son.

Because these knives use a Scandinavian grind (no secondary bevel), they're easy to sharpen (rub the whole bevel flat against the stone), and have a stronger edge than you find in other knives with a traditional double bevel. The blade geometry never changes over the life of the knife either - unlike most knives which get a steeper bevel as the blade gets worn down and closer to the (thick) spine.

Because these are not hugely expensive knives, the quality of the grind can sometimes be a bit wobbly. Not very, but a bit. I've found got best results by taking an hour, and truing the bevels using the same process and taking the same care I'd use to truing the back of a plane iron. This puts a mirror finish on the bevel, cleans up any variation in the grind, and also seems to get back into metal which holds an edge longer.

t.

[TomF]

I've used one of those ugly-handled knives from Lee Valley for a bunch of years. Very good value, and frankly, the handles are comfortable in a whole range of hand positions. Because of the quality of the blade, the comfort of the handle, and the price (!), I bought one of these as a first knife for my older son.

Because these knives use a Scandinavian grind (no secondary bevel), they're easy to sharpen (rub the whole bevel flat against the stone), and have a stronger edge than you find in other knives with a traditional double bevel. The blade geometry never changes over the life of the knife either - unlike most knives which get a steeper bevel as the blade gets worn down and closer to the (thick) spine.

Because these are not hugely expensive knives, the quality of the grind can sometimes be a bit wobbly. Not very, but a bit. I've found got best results by taking an hour, and truing the bevels using the same process and taking the same care I'd use to truing the back of a plane iron. This puts a mirror finish on the bevel, cleans up any variation in the grind, and also seems to get back into metal which holds an edge longer.

t.

[TomF]

I've used one of those ugly-handled knives from Lee Valley for a bunch of years. Very good value, and frankly, the handles are comfortable in a whole range of hand positions. Because of the quality of the blade, the comfort of the handle, and the price (!), I bought one of these as a first knife for my older son.

Because these knives use a Scandinavian grind (no secondary bevel), they're easy to sharpen (rub the whole bevel flat against the stone), and have a stronger edge than you find in other knives with a traditional double bevel. The blade geometry never changes over the life of the knife either - unlike most knives which get a steeper bevel as the blade gets worn down and closer to the (thick) spine.

Because these are not hugely expensive knives, the quality of the grind can sometimes be a bit wobbly. Not very, but a bit. I've found got best results by taking an hour, and truing the bevels using the same process and taking the same care I'd use to truing the back of a plane iron. This puts a mirror finish on the bevel, cleans up any variation in the grind, and also seems to get back into metal which holds an edge longer.

t.

[*LB]

Bob, I hadn't seen that thread on your sheath before . . . pretty slick!

[*LB]

Bob, I hadn't seen that thread on your sheath before . . . pretty slick!

[*LB]

Bob, I hadn't seen that thread on your sheath before . . . pretty slick!

[Tom Robb]

I understand the old ship captains had a cure for pointy knives - break the tip off. I suppose they wanted to minimize the stabbing incidents.
Put it in a vice. Whack it w/ a hammer. It ought to snap off - if it bends, it wasn't much of a blade That way there's less grinding to do to finish the job. As others have pointed out - cool the blade in a cup of water early and often as you grind. As to the red handle, no one is likely to steal it, but if they do, it'll be easy to identify

[ 09-08-2005, 04:34 PM: Message edited by: Tom Robb ]

[Tom Robb]

I understand the old ship captains had a cure for pointy knives - break the tip off. I suppose they wanted to minimize the stabbing incidents.
Put it in a vice. Whack it w/ a hammer. It ought to snap off - if it bends, it wasn't much of a blade That way there's less grinding to do to finish the job. As others have pointed out - cool the blade in a cup of water early and often as you grind. As to the red handle, no one is likely to steal it, but if they do, it'll be easy to identify

[ 09-08-2005, 04:34 PM: Message edited by: Tom Robb ]