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Thread: Getting ready to buy plans for Planing Hull

  1. #1
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    Default Getting ready to buy plans for Planing Hull

    My wife doesn't know it yet but she is buying me building plans for a planing hull. I have not made any real decisions yet but I am leaning towards an i550. My criteria are fairly simple: trailer boat; able enough to take out on SF Bay (well, my skerry is) but small enough to single hand for a two or three hour trip to local lakes; small enough to avoid a gas motor--electric only and I don't have much allusion that I will be able to row; nice for three and maybe four adults for cruising around in. I have no interest in racing, but I like to go fast. Not interested in a trapeze boat. Looks are important. If it would plane, I would consider something as short as a 12.5 or 13. The following designs are attractive to me for various reasons, but not all have plans available: Wabi 17, i550, Riff (doesn't plane, but in terms of looks something similar), Truc 12, one of Oughtred's smaller boats...maybe Gannet? Gartside's Jessie if it planes, and I don't think it does. The GIS or a Windmill, but this boat described will be my 12th build and I may be tired of building skiffs, since I am finishing one now and just started another small one for my boy which will be done either prior to or simultaneously with the planing hull.

    The rig is going to be a point of difficulty. Because I am not interested in racing, but recognize that I need both the power and the light weight to get up and roll, choosing a rig is going to be a problem at the ramp. I have no issue whatsoever changing a rig, with an eye on sq. ft. My wife will build or misappropriate sails and we can try different rigs and move them around on our other boats. For example, a Rommilly lug on a birdsmouth mast on the i550, with a mizzen, or perhaps a big gunter with a jib. I have a gunter on my skerry and I like it as much as my lug sails. The sprit boom rigs on the Core Sound 20 would be a good option on the i550, and a very similar hull exists on the French Montaubin Lili 6.10 rigged just that way. The Lili 6.10 is unstayed. Why would I change the original? Because I am not going to fool around for an hour each way at the ramp, and I am not out to follow a class rule nor squeeze every ounce of performance out of a hull. I just don't care even slightly about building a purist craft. I will have no problems at all moving mast steps a little here and there to get reasonable balance out of the helm and fine tuning a rig and a boat is very interesting for me. This is equal parts fun building and using, and there is nothing serious whatsoever about this endeavor. IF something is a failure I will tear it out and replace. The journey is at least as important as the destination of launch day.

    If I were to choose one right now (not knowing whether plans are available) I think it would be Wabi, with Jessie second--I don't think Jessie planes though. I have to say that Gannet seems to really fit the criteria well, even to the point of having a gunter as an option, IIRC. And Gannet would look great with a lug--we wouldn't even have to build a new sail unless it was just for the beauty queen shots on the launch.

    I think Fulmar is a little big for what I want, well, the build is maybe a bit complex for the time frame that I want to allocate--a one year build is fine, a three year build is too much-- and I would like to build something a bit different than my Coquina. For some reason I really like the muscular good looks of the i550, and to a lesser degree, Wabi. Comments?
    Last edited by davebrown; 06-13-2015 at 01:14 PM.
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  2. #2
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    Default Re: Getting ready to buy plans for Planing Hull

    Hot Canary:
    Re-naming straits as necessary.

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    Default Re: Getting ready to buy plans for Planing Hull

    Gannet: what a beauty! Furthermore, of these boats, I think Gannet is the most likely boat for staying away from motors and sticking with oars. I will always prefer to avoid motors where possible, mainly because I have to be a slave at a desk all day and any workouts that present themselves, I take.
    Last edited by davebrown; 06-13-2015 at 01:56 AM.
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    Default Re: Getting ready to buy plans for Planing Hull

    Jessie: probably a displacement hull. Looks like no chance of planing from the lines drawing on Gartside's webpage.
    Last edited by davebrown; 06-13-2015 at 02:07 AM.
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  5. #5
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    Default Re: Getting ready to buy plans for Planing Hull

    Lili 6.10, with that ketch rig, quite similar to the i550:
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    Default Re: Getting ready to buy plans for Planing Hull

    Wabi: I don't think plans are available. This boat appears to be the best all rounder for what I am thinking. If I found out plans are available, or even lines drawing with offsets, this would be the end of my inquiry.
    Last edited by davebrown; 06-13-2015 at 02:05 AM.
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    Default Re: Getting ready to buy plans for Planing Hull

    A tiny bit larger than the Lili .6.1, with a sloop rig--the oars are surprising, and this angle really shows the similarity to the i550. The forefoot reminds me more of the COre Sound than 550 however. My objection to the Core Sound has been aesthetic. They look like a wonderful hull but offend me ocularly. My apologies to our friends in Beaufort and NC. Maybe they could be played with and built to a shear like below.
    My French is poor, but this MAY be the plans:


    If so, they are 1200 Euros.


    That's probably what I spent on plans AND all planking and trim on my Coquina. I scrounge wood all the time, and I am not in the market for a set of 1200e plans, if I have read that correctly.
    Last edited by davebrown; 06-13-2015 at 02:54 AM.
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  8. #8
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    Default Re: Getting ready to buy plans for Planing Hull

    Along the lines of Gannet, I really like Vivier's boats--but nothing I am reading suggests that he has a planing hull (say, for example, Aber). I have no access to seeing any of these in person, much less taking one out, so I am living vicariously through my internet friends about all of these designs.
    Re-naming straits as necessary.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Getting ready to buy plans for Planing Hull

    A better photo of Lili 6.1. Why not an 80 mainsail and a 120 foresail to hit 200 sq. ft. on the i550.
    Last edited by davebrown; 06-13-2015 at 02:36 AM.
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  10. #10
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    Default Re: Getting ready to buy plans for Planing Hull

    When I swapped emails with Gilles about the plans I think they were 600 Euros but that included the cutting files to CNC cut the hull. Lili6.1 is a big favourite of mine. Says plans are 600 euros here, lots more pictures too

    https://chantiermer.wordpress.com/pr...ons/lili-6-10/

    Wabi should be cheaper being a smaller boat.

    https://chantiermer.wordpress.com/productions/wabi-17/

    Checkout John Welsford's AWOL you would get planing and seaworthy an excellent combination.

    http://jwboatdesigns.co.nz/plans/awol/

    Brian
    Last edited by keyhavenpotterer; 06-13-2015 at 05:44 AM.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Getting ready to buy plans for Planing Hull

    I would think you would want to find a supplier for those carbon? Masts first as those alone might blow your budget.
    I think a non carbon unstayed mast on a boat of those sizes is going to be quite a handfull. Better a stayed mast in a tabernacle and if your not far from the slip leaving the sails hanked on.
    Core sound and i550 look quick builds not so sure anout the others.
    James

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    Default Re: Getting ready to buy plans for Planing Hull


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    Default Re: Getting ready to buy plans for Planing Hull

    I like AWOL and there was a thread a while back comparing AWOL to another similar design. I am not in budget range for carbon mast/spars. A stayed mast in a tabernacle might be an option. I don't like the looks of aluminum, but there are a few gold anodized O'day rigs floating around, so to speak, on cheap boats that could be altered or maybe used as is that look pretty good. I like the 6.1 Lili double sprit rig. 200 sq. ft. would the be the target on an i550. I have no doubt it would be a handful, at least as a singlehander. Brian, your email gives me hope that Montaubin might sell me something less than CNC cutout plans for Wabi. If I could get lines and offsets for 200e I would be willing to do it.
    Re-naming straits as necessary.

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    Default Re: Getting ready to buy plans for Planing Hull

    Take care not to offend Gilles, a skilled man could easily take umbridge if it looks like you just want his plans on the cheap. For some reason French designers plans have a history of being much more expensive than the rest of the world's designers. Vivier has reduced his plan prices from much more expensive ones a few years ago.

    if Wabi plans are not fully developed, it could be a good way of saving him time and you costs. I have a memory of 300 euros from somewhere. Here you go, Lolita is 300 Euros https://chantiermer.wordpress.com/productions/lolita/

    Gilles has a good selection of press reviews of his designs, including this Watercraft one https://chantiermer.wordpress.com/presse/presse-wabi1/ and a French report of Lolita https://chantiermer.wordpress.com/presse/presse-lolita/

    Brian
    Last edited by keyhavenpotterer; 06-13-2015 at 12:29 PM.

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    Default Re: Getting ready to buy plans for Planing Hull

    As mentioned, I have considered the GIS and the Windmill. I would probably be more inclined to build the Windmill, but one thing I don't know a lot about are the various Fox hulls that could be built either strip or lapstrake ply. I have given up the idea of building in solid timber as long as I live in the Devil's Backyard (Sacramento--it was 107 godawful degrees yesterday and it's not even July). A strip planked Fox design finished bright with a painted green or white waterline would be a good looking boat...I recognize from reading, though not from experience, that an allrounder that planes is not the most common boat.
    Re-naming straits as necessary.

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    Default Re: Getting ready to buy plans for Planing Hull

    Is Lolita Wabi?
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  17. #17
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    Default Re: Getting ready to buy plans for Planing Hull

    I keep looking at AWOL. Sort of a slightly reduced 550.
    Re-naming straits as necessary.

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    Default Re: Getting ready to buy plans for Planing Hull

    Lolita is just a bit smaller at 15'9" which means just two sheets length with a single scarph.

    [COLOR=#545454 !important]Swap to French[/COLOR]
    This is a real sea skiff able to navigate over long distances to rowing , with very strained water lines , well protected , and light.But the real "plus" is its effectiveness to sail thanks to its hull , well marked upper chine , its carbon spars and sails to the modern third .

    This is a high performance boat ride , versatile and safe .

    Wabi is larger, carries 4 or two cruising. Google translate again

    His name sums up its genesis : the WABI is an aesthetic principle of counting , silence and harmony with nature.
    On a lighter hull recess and well defended CP / epoxy 5m20 x 1m70 with 16 cm draft and 1m10 lowered pivoting centreboard , we implemented the best of current technology to the wing of 10m2 , as well as propulsion rowing, to access thrilling performance !
    " WABI " is unsinkable ; the reefing is on demand by rolling
    around the mast. Draining the cockpit through a central bailer .
    The cupboards are divided into watertight compartments 4 + 2 large lockers and space for the cooler.
    The sleeping for 2 possible on the floor once upended the boat.
    " WABI " 4 people can take a walk or 2 trail running . It is designed for category C.

    Brian
    Last edited by keyhavenpotterer; 06-13-2015 at 01:20 PM.

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Getting ready to buy plans for Planing Hull

    EC22

    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

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    Default Re: Getting ready to buy plans for Planing Hull

    What build method do you have in mind? The Jolly Boat would fit the bill, if strip plank is on the table.

    http://www.uffafox.com/jollybt.htm

  21. #21
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    Default Re: Getting ready to buy plans for Planing Hull

    The CS 20 and the EC 22 have a rig that is already tailor made for the hulls--so I wouldn't have to inject my boot-strap engineering into getting the rigs right. I also would miss out on the enjoyment of doing that, which it mostly is. I have a garage that will just hold an 18, so I can build indoors on a roller carriage, as I am now. The description of Wabi is dead on. Here is a CS 17 that is getting pretty close, and with that Bear Boat style doghouse, it looks alittle better to me than the shear as drawn:
    Re-naming straits as necessary.

  22. #22
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    Default Re: Getting ready to buy plans for Planing Hull

    John, I have no build method in mind, except I can't build in solid timber with a garage boat here in The Devils Armpit. I have never built a strip plank boat so I would consider the Jolly boat. If Riff would plane, I would build Riff. I like her looks and she is a lot of boat for a small craft. I have advantage and disadvantage with an 18 vs. a 12. I go everywhere with boats, so I could use a boat like Gannet in Folsom Lake and in Sausolito; I would use a boat like the i550 in the Bay proper. I believe I will get more use out of a 13 than a 20.
    Re-naming straits as necessary.

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    Default Re: Getting ready to buy plans for Planing Hull

    How important is windward performance to you? Sloops go well to windward, but the setup time is longer than with a free standing rig, and they often require spinnakers to plane. A rig with a lower center of effort would be better for planing without setting a spinnaker. A balanced lug will get you to windward slower, but produce a great deal of power on a reach without light kites.

    Here's a quick modification of the catboat I'm working on to show what I think you need. Not too wide on the waterline, so a low-drag hull. For hiking power, lots of flare above the waterline. As long a waterline as your build space will accommodate, to reduce the length to weight ratio.



    Sharp bow to get to windward, firm sections for planing off the wind.

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    Default Re: Getting ready to buy plans for Planing Hull

    How about a standing lug with a jib? And John, I of course have been watching your thread with interest on the above design. I will send you a PM.
    Re-naming straits as necessary.

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    Default Re: Getting ready to buy plans for Planing Hull

    Quote Originally Posted by davebrown View Post
    How about a standing lug with a jib? And John, I of course have been watching your thread with interest on the above design. I will send you a PM.
    Any time you have a jib, you need standing rigging to get proper luff tension. If you want two sails, a balanced lug main and a leg of mutton mizzen would be better. The mizzen would tend to hold the boat bow into the wind while you reefed, for example.

  26. #26
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    Default Re: Getting ready to buy plans for Planing Hull

    How about a standing lug with a jib? And John, I of course have been watching your thread with interest on the above design. I will send you a PM.

    Re-naming straits as necessary.

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    Default Re: Getting ready to buy plans for Planing Hull

    Have you considered a scow? The Y Flyer might fit the bill.

    http://oldsite.yflyer.org/Home.aspx

  28. #28
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    Default Re: Getting ready to buy plans for Planing Hull

    Pelican?
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

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    Default Re: Getting ready to buy plans for Planing Hull

    Keith Callahan does some very nice, sharp-bowed planing skiffs in the size range you're talking about, and if you like Bluemotion, you might like this:

    http://www.bluelightning.co.uk/Highl...ighlight01.htm


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    Default Re: Getting ready to buy plans for Planing Hull

    How about a Cox Bay Skimmer - 18' I believe.
    Simple design, short sticks.

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    Default Re: Getting ready to buy plans for Planing Hull

    John, sorry for the duplicate post. Yes, all cool boats. I have a mizzen on my Coquina which I am very used to and which functions beautifully. Its best windward performance fo me is with a slightly oversized lug and mizzen. I know it must be a misperception (actual wind vs. perceived wind) but with that combination it feels like it will claw straight up. Not fast--sort of like a Willys in 4wd low. As mentioned, standing rigging with a tabernacle (so it doesn't have to be taken apart each time coming and going) is not the worst thing I have heard of.
    Re-naming straits as necessary.

  32. #32
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    Default Re: Getting ready to buy plans for Planing Hull

    Blue LIghtning has a lot of similar characteristics to the i550. It has a bulb keel of the same weight, IIRC, but it has a little bit of a reverse to its shear.
    Re-naming straits as necessary.

  33. #33
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    Default Re: Getting ready to buy plans for Planing Hull

    More on the Jollyboat:

    https://www.fbyc.net/Club/History/Articles/09jollyboat
    Uffa Fox designed the Jollyboat to the following specifications:

    • Overall Length 18 feet
    • Waterline Length 17 feet 6 inches
    • Beam 5 feet
    • Draft ( board down) 4 feet 9 inches
    • Sail Area 160 square feet
    • Hull Weight 250 pounds minimum

    Note the last spec...250 pounds...an amazing weight for such a large dinghy of its time. The weight included partial decks forward and aft, molded port and starboard wooden flotation tanks, and a relatively high freeboard. This was truly the high-tech dinghy of its day and a beauty to behold when maintained with its original varnished finish.And, man, was it fast! An extract from Uffa Fox�s 1950s book, Inshore Dinghy Sailing, states:

    No single hull dinghy has ever exceeded the timed speed of the Jollyboat over a measured distance. Sailed by Charles Curry in 1954 off Cowes in a Force 5 wind, the Jollyboat covered five cables at a speed of 13.4 knots. The sea was one in which the heights of the waves were between 4 ft and 5 ft, and it was not surprising that Ralph Vines later in the same year put up an average over three runs of 17.8 knots in the smoother waters of Edgebastor Reservoir. Times trials over a distance have now gone out of fashion and it is certain that more recent and improved versions of the Jollyboat have gone faster since 1954.

    Stories of the Jollyboat�s speed were notorious for their supposed exaggeration. Some would even claim that a Jolly could pull a water-skier in the right conditions. Your author was a skeptic until he had actually seen a photograph of a Jollyboat performing this feat. And there is little doubt that, after the trapeze was adopted in 1959, the 20 knot barrier was regularly exceeded.

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    Default Re: Getting ready to buy plans for Planing Hull

    Quote Originally Posted by upchurchmr View Post
    How about a Cox Bay Skimmer - 18' I believe.
    Simple design, short sticks.
    interesting any sailing videos at speed? most of the photos apear to be drifting conditions, pretty cool

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    Default Re: Getting ready to buy plans for Planing Hull

    Daniel,

    You might ask Gary Baigent.

    I've seen him post things several times, but I don't remember where.

    http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/mul...s-52655-7.html is the last time I've seen something. He should be glad to talk about the boat.

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