As I prepare my Friendship for a Memorial day launch , and a Trinidad bottom paint , I am wondering what I could add to my bootop enamel , just an oil based paint , that will stop the green scum from building up,
I tried the red cayenne pepper idea , but couldn't find any at the market other than granular ...don't need non skid boot top ???
Is the West Marine "X" stuff any good , Its big $$.
Any idea's ???????????
As I prepare my Friendship for a Memorial day launch , and a Trinidad bottom paint , I am wondering what I could add to my bootop enamel , just an oil based paint , that will stop the green scum from building up,
I tried the red cayenne pepper idea , but couldn't find any at the market other than granular ...don't need non skid boot top ???
Is the West Marine "X" stuff any good , Its big $$.
Any idea's ???????????
As I prepare my Friendship for a Memorial day launch , and a Trinidad bottom paint , I am wondering what I could add to my bootop enamel , just an oil based paint , that will stop the green scum from building up,
I tried the red cayenne pepper idea , but couldn't find any at the market other than granular ...don't need non skid boot top ???
Is the West Marine "X" stuff any good , Its big $$.
Any idea's ???????????
Senior Member
I just put the water line a couple inches high and that keeps the boot out of the water. Makes the boat look nice and light as well as it lifts the slight knuckle to Grana's bow.
Anyway, regular enamals will not be helped by any additives. I use very fine ceyanne pepper in my bottom paint - cheapest ablative paint. It would not work in the 'hard' bottom paints anyway.
There are clear coverings sold for putting on outbaord motors but they will not look well in this application and won't stand up well anyway.
It's either raise the water line, use something expensive as a boot stripe, or rub it a lot.
Senior Member
I just put the water line a couple inches high and that keeps the boot out of the water. Makes the boat look nice and light as well as it lifts the slight knuckle to Grana's bow.
Anyway, regular enamals will not be helped by any additives. I use very fine ceyanne pepper in my bottom paint - cheapest ablative paint. It would not work in the 'hard' bottom paints anyway.
There are clear coverings sold for putting on outbaord motors but they will not look well in this application and won't stand up well anyway.
It's either raise the water line, use something expensive as a boot stripe, or rub it a lot.
Senior Member
I just put the water line a couple inches high and that keeps the boot out of the water. Makes the boat look nice and light as well as it lifts the slight knuckle to Grana's bow.
Anyway, regular enamals will not be helped by any additives. I use very fine ceyanne pepper in my bottom paint - cheapest ablative paint. It would not work in the 'hard' bottom paints anyway.
There are clear coverings sold for putting on outbaord motors but they will not look well in this application and won't stand up well anyway.
It's either raise the water line, use something expensive as a boot stripe, or rub it a lot.
Chief Adm!n.
Here's an idea... get a test piece of wood painted with your boot stripe paint, but add some (small) amount of an herbicide, like "round up" or other toxic stuff. See how it works before you do this on your boat...Just a thought....
Chief Adm!n.
Here's an idea... get a test piece of wood painted with your boot stripe paint, but add some (small) amount of an herbicide, like "round up" or other toxic stuff. See how it works before you do this on your boat...Just a thought....
Chief Adm!n.
Here's an idea... get a test piece of wood painted with your boot stripe paint, but add some (small) amount of an herbicide, like "round up" or other toxic stuff. See how it works before you do this on your boat...Just a thought....
Senior member # 2,633
I added some TBT (tributyl tin) from the hardware store to the top coat of my bottom paint on IVY this year... we shall see if it helps.
Senior member # 2,633
I added some TBT (tributyl tin) from the hardware store to the top coat of my bottom paint on IVY this year... we shall see if it helps.
Senior member # 2,633
I added some TBT (tributyl tin) from the hardware store to the top coat of my bottom paint on IVY this year... we shall see if it helps.
....tbt is extremely toxic to shellfish....I thought it had been outlawed....if you put this into your bottome paint you are breaking the law...in addition to being a very poor steward of the environment.... web page
[ 04-20-2004, 11:26 PM: Message edited by: Dutch.Rub ]
....tbt is extremely toxic to shellfish....I thought it had been outlawed....if you put this into your bottome paint you are breaking the law...in addition to being a very poor steward of the environment.... web page
[ 04-20-2004, 11:26 PM: Message edited by: Dutch.Rub ]
....tbt is extremely toxic to shellfish....I thought it had been outlawed....if you put this into your bottome paint you are breaking the law...in addition to being a very poor steward of the environment.... web page
[ 04-20-2004, 11:26 PM: Message edited by: Dutch.Rub ]
Senior member # 2,633
Yes, It is illegal , unless you have a cargo ship or a tanker. Then it's ok. Bcause 20 800 footers in a harbor release less toxins into the water than 20 80 year old sailboats??? yeah... That makes sense!!!!
Anyway, it is still sold as a mildewcide for house paints.
Senior member # 2,633
Yes, It is illegal , unless you have a cargo ship or a tanker. Then it's ok. Bcause 20 800 footers in a harbor release less toxins into the water than 20 80 year old sailboats??? yeah... That makes sense!!!!
Anyway, it is still sold as a mildewcide for house paints.
Senior member # 2,633
Yes, It is illegal , unless you have a cargo ship or a tanker. Then it's ok. Bcause 20 800 footers in a harbor release less toxins into the water than 20 80 year old sailboats??? yeah... That makes sense!!!!
Anyway, it is still sold as a mildewcide for house paints.
Chief Adm!n.
So.... Then in theory, it would be OK to use if you have a house boat...?Originally posted by Thad Van Gilder:
Yes, It is illegal , unless you have a cargo ship or a tanker. Then it's ok. Bcause 20 800 footers in a harbor release less toxins into the water than 20 80 year old sailboats??? yeah... That makes sense!!!!
Anyway, it is still sold as a mildewcide for house paints.
Chief Adm!n.
So.... Then in theory, it would be OK to use if you have a house boat...?Originally posted by Thad Van Gilder:
Yes, It is illegal , unless you have a cargo ship or a tanker. Then it's ok. Bcause 20 800 footers in a harbor release less toxins into the water than 20 80 year old sailboats??? yeah... That makes sense!!!!
Anyway, it is still sold as a mildewcide for house paints.
Chief Adm!n.
So.... Then in theory, it would be OK to use if you have a house boat...?Originally posted by Thad Van Gilder:
Yes, It is illegal , unless you have a cargo ship or a tanker. Then it's ok. Bcause 20 800 footers in a harbor release less toxins into the water than 20 80 year old sailboats??? yeah... That makes sense!!!!
Anyway, it is still sold as a mildewcide for house paints.
Senior Member
It's true, this is one of those bizare laws with knat-like focus. It's similar to the case of the cities in the North East US that discharge millions of gallons of untreated waste into the ocean everytime it rains while outlawing discharge from recreational boats into these same waters. In the case of TBT, it is legal for recreational use on aluminium outdrives. You can buy TBT-containing paint in a spray can for use on your outboard or outdrive at waste marine for a huge hunk of change. Or, you can mix your own for much less money. The Navy uses it on all its ships. Actually, I have mixed my own for painting an outboard that sat in the water but the guilt I felt was much worse than the pain of hauling the motor out of the water after use! (I dumped the boat and bought an inboard). TBT is still around because it is the only option for Aluminium but I agree that if it's nasty to the environment we should try not to use it if we can help it and neither should the navy or commercial ships. Oops, I didn't realize that I was in a ranting mood!
David.
Senior Member
It's true, this is one of those bizare laws with knat-like focus. It's similar to the case of the cities in the North East US that discharge millions of gallons of untreated waste into the ocean everytime it rains while outlawing discharge from recreational boats into these same waters. In the case of TBT, it is legal for recreational use on aluminium outdrives. You can buy TBT-containing paint in a spray can for use on your outboard or outdrive at waste marine for a huge hunk of change. Or, you can mix your own for much less money. The Navy uses it on all its ships. Actually, I have mixed my own for painting an outboard that sat in the water but the guilt I felt was much worse than the pain of hauling the motor out of the water after use! (I dumped the boat and bought an inboard). TBT is still around because it is the only option for Aluminium but I agree that if it's nasty to the environment we should try not to use it if we can help it and neither should the navy or commercial ships. Oops, I didn't realize that I was in a ranting mood!
David.
Senior Member
It's true, this is one of those bizare laws with knat-like focus. It's similar to the case of the cities in the North East US that discharge millions of gallons of untreated waste into the ocean everytime it rains while outlawing discharge from recreational boats into these same waters. In the case of TBT, it is legal for recreational use on aluminium outdrives. You can buy TBT-containing paint in a spray can for use on your outboard or outdrive at waste marine for a huge hunk of change. Or, you can mix your own for much less money. The Navy uses it on all its ships. Actually, I have mixed my own for painting an outboard that sat in the water but the guilt I felt was much worse than the pain of hauling the motor out of the water after use! (I dumped the boat and bought an inboard). TBT is still around because it is the only option for Aluminium but I agree that if it's nasty to the environment we should try not to use it if we can help it and neither should the navy or commercial ships. Oops, I didn't realize that I was in a ranting mood!
David.
I grew up in a commercial fishing family on Canada's east coast. We sold raw uncut Cod Liver Oil. Every spring we would mix a little in with the bottom paint. It did an excellent job, we used 5 or six wooden boats and used this method on all of them. Probably impossible to get such a thing anymore (other than the refined stuff in a drug store). The old timers swaore by it and it did do a fantastic job.
I grew up in a commercial fishing family on Canada's east coast. We sold raw uncut Cod Liver Oil. Every spring we would mix a little in with the bottom paint. It did an excellent job, we used 5 or six wooden boats and used this method on all of them. Probably impossible to get such a thing anymore (other than the refined stuff in a drug store). The old timers swaore by it and it did do a fantastic job.
I grew up in a commercial fishing family on Canada's east coast. We sold raw uncut Cod Liver Oil. Every spring we would mix a little in with the bottom paint. It did an excellent job, we used 5 or six wooden boats and used this method on all of them. Probably impossible to get such a thing anymore (other than the refined stuff in a drug store). The old timers swaore by it and it did do a fantastic job.
Trying to be reasonable
If cayenne pepper is good, hotter peppers should be better, no? Cayenne is about 30K Scoville Units (the standard measure of how hot something is), while Habaneros or Scotch Bonnet peppers are 300K Scovilles. So get yourself to a mexican grocery store and buy some dried habanero peppers and grind 'em up in a blender. Let the dust settle for at least half an hour before opening the top, then handle with gloves and a dust mask (seriously!) and mix 'em in as soon as you can. Breathing the dust is truly not advised. If you can find some habanero pepper extract, that's even better, more concentrated, but make sure it's an oil-based extract with no extraneous stuff like vinegar, otherwise it may not mix right with the paint. Here's a web site with information about various types of bottled agony.
Now, I've never actually tried this myself, although I do have a taste for hot food. So somebody try it and report back, OK? I doubt it can do any harm, anyway.
[ 04-21-2004, 03:02 PM: Message edited by: Keith Wilson ]
Trying to be reasonable
If cayenne pepper is good, hotter peppers should be better, no? Cayenne is about 30K Scoville Units (the standard measure of how hot something is), while Habaneros or Scotch Bonnet peppers are 300K Scovilles. So get yourself to a mexican grocery store and buy some dried habanero peppers and grind 'em up in a blender. Let the dust settle for at least half an hour before opening the top, then handle with gloves and a dust mask (seriously!) and mix 'em in as soon as you can. Breathing the dust is truly not advised. If you can find some habanero pepper extract, that's even better, more concentrated, but make sure it's an oil-based extract with no extraneous stuff like vinegar, otherwise it may not mix right with the paint. Here's a web site with information about various types of bottled agony.
Now, I've never actually tried this myself, although I do have a taste for hot food. So somebody try it and report back, OK? I doubt it can do any harm, anyway.
[ 04-21-2004, 03:02 PM: Message edited by: Keith Wilson ]
Trying to be reasonable
If cayenne pepper is good, hotter peppers should be better, no? Cayenne is about 30K Scoville Units (the standard measure of how hot something is), while Habaneros or Scotch Bonnet peppers are 300K Scovilles. So get yourself to a mexican grocery store and buy some dried habanero peppers and grind 'em up in a blender. Let the dust settle for at least half an hour before opening the top, then handle with gloves and a dust mask (seriously!) and mix 'em in as soon as you can. Breathing the dust is truly not advised. If you can find some habanero pepper extract, that's even better, more concentrated, but make sure it's an oil-based extract with no extraneous stuff like vinegar, otherwise it may not mix right with the paint. Here's a web site with information about various types of bottled agony.
Now, I've never actually tried this myself, although I do have a taste for hot food. So somebody try it and report back, OK? I doubt it can do any harm, anyway.
[ 04-21-2004, 03:02 PM: Message edited by: Keith Wilson ]
Chief Adm!n.
Oh sure! You worry about TBT but you're willing to subject poor lil' sea creatures to habanero extract? I can see 'em now...Little crabs scuttling along the mooring line with beads of sweat pouring off their little crab foreheads, faces turning bright red, fanning their crab mouths with their claws, gasping for air, gulping beer, eating bread.... ANYTHING to cool their little crab tongues!Originally posted by Keith Wilson:
If cayenne pepper is good, hotter peppers should be better, no? Cayenne is about 30K Scoville Units (the standard measure of how hot something is), while Habaneros or Scotch Bonnet peppers are 300K Scovilles. So get yourself to a mexican grocery store and buy some dried habanero peppers and grind 'em up in a blender. Let the dust settle for at least half an hour before opening the top, then handle with gloves and a dust mask (seriously!) and mix 'em in as soon as you can. Breathing the dust is truly not advised. If you can find some habanero pepper extract, that's even better, more concentrated, but make sure it's an oil-based extract with no extraneous stuff like vinegar, otherwise it may not mix right with the paint. Here's a web site with information about various types of bottled agony.
Now, I've never actually tried this myself, although I do have a taste for hot food. So somebody try it and report back, OK? I doubt it can do any harm, anyway.
Chief Adm!n.
Oh sure! You worry about TBT but you're willing to subject poor lil' sea creatures to habanero extract? I can see 'em now...Little crabs scuttling along the mooring line with beads of sweat pouring off their little crab foreheads, faces turning bright red, fanning their crab mouths with their claws, gasping for air, gulping beer, eating bread.... ANYTHING to cool their little crab tongues!Originally posted by Keith Wilson:
If cayenne pepper is good, hotter peppers should be better, no? Cayenne is about 30K Scoville Units (the standard measure of how hot something is), while Habaneros or Scotch Bonnet peppers are 300K Scovilles. So get yourself to a mexican grocery store and buy some dried habanero peppers and grind 'em up in a blender. Let the dust settle for at least half an hour before opening the top, then handle with gloves and a dust mask (seriously!) and mix 'em in as soon as you can. Breathing the dust is truly not advised. If you can find some habanero pepper extract, that's even better, more concentrated, but make sure it's an oil-based extract with no extraneous stuff like vinegar, otherwise it may not mix right with the paint. Here's a web site with information about various types of bottled agony.
Now, I've never actually tried this myself, although I do have a taste for hot food. So somebody try it and report back, OK? I doubt it can do any harm, anyway.
Chief Adm!n.
Oh sure! You worry about TBT but you're willing to subject poor lil' sea creatures to habanero extract? I can see 'em now...Little crabs scuttling along the mooring line with beads of sweat pouring off their little crab foreheads, faces turning bright red, fanning their crab mouths with their claws, gasping for air, gulping beer, eating bread.... ANYTHING to cool their little crab tongues!Originally posted by Keith Wilson:
If cayenne pepper is good, hotter peppers should be better, no? Cayenne is about 30K Scoville Units (the standard measure of how hot something is), while Habaneros or Scotch Bonnet peppers are 300K Scovilles. So get yourself to a mexican grocery store and buy some dried habanero peppers and grind 'em up in a blender. Let the dust settle for at least half an hour before opening the top, then handle with gloves and a dust mask (seriously!) and mix 'em in as soon as you can. Breathing the dust is truly not advised. If you can find some habanero pepper extract, that's even better, more concentrated, but make sure it's an oil-based extract with no extraneous stuff like vinegar, otherwise it may not mix right with the paint. Here's a web site with information about various types of bottled agony.
Now, I've never actually tried this myself, although I do have a taste for hot food. So somebody try it and report back, OK? I doubt it can do any harm, anyway.
.........................
I would try teflon powder in the paint. You could also try copper powder, but that, if it works, is probably too slow a product to stop the scum. The teflon (tm) would make it easier to scrub off.
A clear UV blocking 2 part urethane might also be harder and denser and easier to keep clean than the enamel it is topcoating.
just a few low cost ideas......
paul oman
progressive epoxy polymers
www.epoxyproducts.com/marine.html
.........................
I would try teflon powder in the paint. You could also try copper powder, but that, if it works, is probably too slow a product to stop the scum. The teflon (tm) would make it easier to scrub off.
A clear UV blocking 2 part urethane might also be harder and denser and easier to keep clean than the enamel it is topcoating.
just a few low cost ideas......
paul oman
progressive epoxy polymers
www.epoxyproducts.com/marine.html
.........................
I would try teflon powder in the paint. You could also try copper powder, but that, if it works, is probably too slow a product to stop the scum. The teflon (tm) would make it easier to scrub off.
A clear UV blocking 2 part urethane might also be harder and denser and easier to keep clean than the enamel it is topcoating.
just a few low cost ideas......
paul oman
progressive epoxy polymers
www.epoxyproducts.com/marine.html
LPBC member
TEFLON. Paul.. what happens next year when you want to scuff it and repaint?.
I know of a boat painter ruined by silicone dust. They sanded off a highly polished boat in a shed. the dust blew around and settled in the rafters. The next few boats they painted( later) got this mysterious issue with the newly applied paint dropping off. ( this is going back a while, but you see my point)I don't know about the specific properties of teflon compared to silicone but it's ringing alarm bells for me.
Anyway, scummy waterline.I mixed metalex in with the paint one year( zinc napthalate) and it worked but I decided I didn't want to sand that again. I'm thinking about getting a cheap garden sprayer and applying some suitable herbicide every few weeks under the counter to see what happens over our winter.
LPBC member
TEFLON. Paul.. what happens next year when you want to scuff it and repaint?.
I know of a boat painter ruined by silicone dust. They sanded off a highly polished boat in a shed. the dust blew around and settled in the rafters. The next few boats they painted( later) got this mysterious issue with the newly applied paint dropping off. ( this is going back a while, but you see my point)I don't know about the specific properties of teflon compared to silicone but it's ringing alarm bells for me.
Anyway, scummy waterline.I mixed metalex in with the paint one year( zinc napthalate) and it worked but I decided I didn't want to sand that again. I'm thinking about getting a cheap garden sprayer and applying some suitable herbicide every few weeks under the counter to see what happens over our winter.
LPBC member
TEFLON. Paul.. what happens next year when you want to scuff it and repaint?.
I know of a boat painter ruined by silicone dust. They sanded off a highly polished boat in a shed. the dust blew around and settled in the rafters. The next few boats they painted( later) got this mysterious issue with the newly applied paint dropping off. ( this is going back a while, but you see my point)I don't know about the specific properties of teflon compared to silicone but it's ringing alarm bells for me.
Anyway, scummy waterline.I mixed metalex in with the paint one year( zinc napthalate) and it worked but I decided I didn't want to sand that again. I'm thinking about getting a cheap garden sprayer and applying some suitable herbicide every few weeks under the counter to see what happens over our winter.
Senior Member
There may be at least a shade more logic to the laws than there would seem to be at first blush...most commercial vessels spend most of their time at sea where the TBT can be quickly diluted by lots of water. Many pleasure craft spend most of their time in densly packed marinas in small, poorly flushed harbors. With those factors in mind it becomes apparent that in fact pleasure craft could be more of a problem than you would think at first. Also, I'd bet that the yards that paint commercial vessels have to do a much better job of containing sanding dust and suchlike than your average small boatyard, let alone your average backyard boatbuilder/maintainer.Originally posted by Lulworth:
It's true, this is one of those bizare laws with knat-like focus. It's similar to the case of the cities in the North East US that discharge millions of gallons of untreated waste into the ocean everytime it rains while outlawing discharge from recreational boats into these same waters. In the case of TBT, it is legal for recreational use on aluminium outdrives. You can buy TBT-containing paint in a spray can for use on your outboard or outdrive at waste marine for a huge hunk of change. Or, you can mix your own for much less money. The Navy uses it on all its ships. Actually, I have mixed my own for painting an outboard that sat in the water but the guilt I felt was much worse than the pain of hauling the motor out of the water after use! (I dumped the boat and bought an inboard). TBT is still around because it is the only option for Aluminium but I agree that if it's nasty to the environment we should try not to use it if we can help it and neither should the navy or commercial ships. Oops, I didn't realize that I was in a ranting mood!
David.
As to the sewage issue -- I believe all US cities and towns that are dumping raw sewage are now being forced to change their ways. I know Providence, Rhode Island is. Of course like all large public works projects it will be a number of years before everything actually gets finished.
Senior Member
There may be at least a shade more logic to the laws than there would seem to be at first blush...most commercial vessels spend most of their time at sea where the TBT can be quickly diluted by lots of water. Many pleasure craft spend most of their time in densly packed marinas in small, poorly flushed harbors. With those factors in mind it becomes apparent that in fact pleasure craft could be more of a problem than you would think at first. Also, I'd bet that the yards that paint commercial vessels have to do a much better job of containing sanding dust and suchlike than your average small boatyard, let alone your average backyard boatbuilder/maintainer.Originally posted by Lulworth:
It's true, this is one of those bizare laws with knat-like focus. It's similar to the case of the cities in the North East US that discharge millions of gallons of untreated waste into the ocean everytime it rains while outlawing discharge from recreational boats into these same waters. In the case of TBT, it is legal for recreational use on aluminium outdrives. You can buy TBT-containing paint in a spray can for use on your outboard or outdrive at waste marine for a huge hunk of change. Or, you can mix your own for much less money. The Navy uses it on all its ships. Actually, I have mixed my own for painting an outboard that sat in the water but the guilt I felt was much worse than the pain of hauling the motor out of the water after use! (I dumped the boat and bought an inboard). TBT is still around because it is the only option for Aluminium but I agree that if it's nasty to the environment we should try not to use it if we can help it and neither should the navy or commercial ships. Oops, I didn't realize that I was in a ranting mood!
David.
As to the sewage issue -- I believe all US cities and towns that are dumping raw sewage are now being forced to change their ways. I know Providence, Rhode Island is. Of course like all large public works projects it will be a number of years before everything actually gets finished.
Senior Member
There may be at least a shade more logic to the laws than there would seem to be at first blush...most commercial vessels spend most of their time at sea where the TBT can be quickly diluted by lots of water. Many pleasure craft spend most of their time in densly packed marinas in small, poorly flushed harbors. With those factors in mind it becomes apparent that in fact pleasure craft could be more of a problem than you would think at first. Also, I'd bet that the yards that paint commercial vessels have to do a much better job of containing sanding dust and suchlike than your average small boatyard, let alone your average backyard boatbuilder/maintainer.Originally posted by Lulworth:
It's true, this is one of those bizare laws with knat-like focus. It's similar to the case of the cities in the North East US that discharge millions of gallons of untreated waste into the ocean everytime it rains while outlawing discharge from recreational boats into these same waters. In the case of TBT, it is legal for recreational use on aluminium outdrives. You can buy TBT-containing paint in a spray can for use on your outboard or outdrive at waste marine for a huge hunk of change. Or, you can mix your own for much less money. The Navy uses it on all its ships. Actually, I have mixed my own for painting an outboard that sat in the water but the guilt I felt was much worse than the pain of hauling the motor out of the water after use! (I dumped the boat and bought an inboard). TBT is still around because it is the only option for Aluminium but I agree that if it's nasty to the environment we should try not to use it if we can help it and neither should the navy or commercial ships. Oops, I didn't realize that I was in a ranting mood!
David.
As to the sewage issue -- I believe all US cities and towns that are dumping raw sewage are now being forced to change their ways. I know Providence, Rhode Island is. Of course like all large public works projects it will be a number of years before everything actually gets finished.
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