Inclimate Weather Gear

[cs]

Well Todd you make a lot of good points and seem to be knowledgable about Gore-Tex. All I know about it is from personal experiance.

I have an issue Gore-tex jacket that sheds water real good and keeps you fairly warm. In fact some folks say it is warmer than the field jacket. I also have the new issue Gore-tex wet weather suit and they work great also. Without seeing the product in hand and I can't tell for sure if those links are the actual issue items. If they are they are fantastic.

BTW I also have the new issue sleeping bag. It comes in three parts:

The sleeping bag
Cold weather insert
Gore-Tex outer cover

The price of the gore-tex cover is more than the price of the sleeping bag and the cold weather insert combine. I beleive it cost around $200 just for the cover. I really don't like this sleeping bag for anything other than cold weather. It is made from a nylon material and during warm weather it is like sleeping on a slip and slide. I much prefer the old cotton bags.

Chad

[paladin]

Chad, The old "40 degrees below zero" bags would slip and slide the same way. I could never get comfortable in them, nor could I get a good nights sleep...but they were warm.

[paladin]

Chad, The old "40 degrees below zero" bags would slip and slide the same way. I could never get comfortable in them, nor could I get a good nights sleep...but they were warm.

[paladin]

Chad, The old "40 degrees below zero" bags would slip and slide the same way. I could never get comfortable in them, nor could I get a good nights sleep...but they were warm.

[cs]

Originally posted by Ed Harrow:
Yowsa Chad, thank you! I found a picture in the Harbor Frieght page that I need for a presentation!!! What one can do with Snag-it!

Ed, what kinda of presentation are you doing and what is Snag-it?

Chad

[cs]

Originally posted by Ed Harrow:
Yowsa Chad, thank you! I found a picture in the Harbor Frieght page that I need for a presentation!!! What one can do with Snag-it!

Ed, what kinda of presentation are you doing and what is Snag-it?

Chad

[cs]

Originally posted by Ed Harrow:
Yowsa Chad, thank you! I found a picture in the Harbor Frieght page that I need for a presentation!!! What one can do with Snag-it!

Ed, what kinda of presentation are you doing and what is Snag-it?

Chad

[Nicholas Carey]

Originally posted by Todd Bradshaw:
...Many manufacturers prefer these fabrics because they have very similar properties, but the roll of fabric doesn't have to be shipped all over the country to be coated and finished before they can start cutting it and they don't have to cut W.L. Gore in on the deal.

Nobody has to cut Gore in on the deal: the Gore patents expired some years ago. Anybody cares to (and is willing to invest the cash) is free to produce a similar PTFE/nylon laminate like Gore-Tex(tm). The information is all there in the patents.

However (as you note), quality tells. You need to trust the fabric manufacturer and you have to trust the people who built your piece of clothing.

[Nicholas Carey]

Originally posted by Todd Bradshaw:
...Many manufacturers prefer these fabrics because they have very similar properties, but the roll of fabric doesn't have to be shipped all over the country to be coated and finished before they can start cutting it and they don't have to cut W.L. Gore in on the deal.

Nobody has to cut Gore in on the deal: the Gore patents expired some years ago. Anybody cares to (and is willing to invest the cash) is free to produce a similar PTFE/nylon laminate like Gore-Tex(tm). The information is all there in the patents.

However (as you note), quality tells. You need to trust the fabric manufacturer and you have to trust the people who built your piece of clothing.

[Nicholas Carey]

Originally posted by Todd Bradshaw:
...Many manufacturers prefer these fabrics because they have very similar properties, but the roll of fabric doesn't have to be shipped all over the country to be coated and finished before they can start cutting it and they don't have to cut W.L. Gore in on the deal.

Nobody has to cut Gore in on the deal: the Gore patents expired some years ago. Anybody cares to (and is willing to invest the cash) is free to produce a similar PTFE/nylon laminate like Gore-Tex(tm). The information is all there in the patents.

However (as you note), quality tells. You need to trust the fabric manufacturer and you have to trust the people who built your piece of clothing.

[Todd Bradshaw]

What I mean by that is that a typical two-layer Gore-Tex fabric built on a 3-4 ox. taffeta base nylon (typical rain/FW gear fabric) has to go through Gore to become Gore-Tex. A fabric with equally good waterproofing and breathability (like Ultrex and several others) can be coated by some of the fabric finishing places using the baked coating process at about half the cost per yard.

It's up to the jacket manufacturer to decide whether he will do better, in terms of sales, by building the jacket with Gore-Tex, getting that name recognition and selling it at a higher price, or the baked coating for a lower price.

And yes, anybody could set up their own factory and make what is essentially Gore-Tex. Unfortunately for them, they would be 20 years behind in advertising and name recognition. No matter how much they hyped, they would never knock Gore off of their lofty perch and would be lucky to even stay in business.

Considering the tremendously large number of early failures, products hyped to be miracles that turned out to be dogs and the years of in-fighting between Gore and some of the top names in the industry concerning just who was financially responsible for all the refunds that had to be handed out when products didn't work, Gore has emerged largely undamaged and with a very firm grasp on a the biggest chunk of the consumer-based pie.

[Todd Bradshaw]

What I mean by that is that a typical two-layer Gore-Tex fabric built on a 3-4 ox. taffeta base nylon (typical rain/FW gear fabric) has to go through Gore to become Gore-Tex. A fabric with equally good waterproofing and breathability (like Ultrex and several others) can be coated by some of the fabric finishing places using the baked coating process at about half the cost per yard.

It's up to the jacket manufacturer to decide whether he will do better, in terms of sales, by building the jacket with Gore-Tex, getting that name recognition and selling it at a higher price, or the baked coating for a lower price.

And yes, anybody could set up their own factory and make what is essentially Gore-Tex. Unfortunately for them, they would be 20 years behind in advertising and name recognition. No matter how much they hyped, they would never knock Gore off of their lofty perch and would be lucky to even stay in business.

Considering the tremendously large number of early failures, products hyped to be miracles that turned out to be dogs and the years of in-fighting between Gore and some of the top names in the industry concerning just who was financially responsible for all the refunds that had to be handed out when products didn't work, Gore has emerged largely undamaged and with a very firm grasp on a the biggest chunk of the consumer-based pie.

[Todd Bradshaw]

What I mean by that is that a typical two-layer Gore-Tex fabric built on a 3-4 ox. taffeta base nylon (typical rain/FW gear fabric) has to go through Gore to become Gore-Tex. A fabric with equally good waterproofing and breathability (like Ultrex and several others) can be coated by some of the fabric finishing places using the baked coating process at about half the cost per yard.

It's up to the jacket manufacturer to decide whether he will do better, in terms of sales, by building the jacket with Gore-Tex, getting that name recognition and selling it at a higher price, or the baked coating for a lower price.

And yes, anybody could set up their own factory and make what is essentially Gore-Tex. Unfortunately for them, they would be 20 years behind in advertising and name recognition. No matter how much they hyped, they would never knock Gore off of their lofty perch and would be lucky to even stay in business.

Considering the tremendously large number of early failures, products hyped to be miracles that turned out to be dogs and the years of in-fighting between Gore and some of the top names in the industry concerning just who was financially responsible for all the refunds that had to be handed out when products didn't work, Gore has emerged largely undamaged and with a very firm grasp on a the biggest chunk of the consumer-based pie.

[Dave Hadfield]

Norm,

As a long time northern canoeist and sailor, I'd say you're going to get at least damp regardless. Better to wear brushed wool or polypropylene long johns, and then loose, baggy layers of wool over that as appropriate under your raingear. (Don't forget the suspenders, or you'll trip and fall overboard.) If you find wool scratchy, then buy finer wool. It does exist (or go with poly next to your skin). I used to say: if it's scratchy then I must be warm, but actually, I buy Windsor Wear 90% brushed wool long johns that are very smooth and comfortable.
Keep dry feet. Buy rubber boots that are quite large enough, put a mesh liner in them, and have lots of dry wool socks. Very important. Don't pinch your feet.
The big thing is to have a change of dry clothes. Even better is to have a source of dry heat on board. There's nothing like a wood stove on a cold, wet night (in harbour, anyway). Even a big clay pot on your cooking ring is better than nothing. Don't consider catalytic heaters. They produce CO, which you don't want to breathe.
It's great to be equipped for cold weather, and venture out on a crisp fall day quite prepared for a cold night at anchor. You often seem to have the whole water to yourself.

[Dave Hadfield]

Norm,

As a long time northern canoeist and sailor, I'd say you're going to get at least damp regardless. Better to wear brushed wool or polypropylene long johns, and then loose, baggy layers of wool over that as appropriate under your raingear. (Don't forget the suspenders, or you'll trip and fall overboard.) If you find wool scratchy, then buy finer wool. It does exist (or go with poly next to your skin). I used to say: if it's scratchy then I must be warm, but actually, I buy Windsor Wear 90% brushed wool long johns that are very smooth and comfortable.
Keep dry feet. Buy rubber boots that are quite large enough, put a mesh liner in them, and have lots of dry wool socks. Very important. Don't pinch your feet.
The big thing is to have a change of dry clothes. Even better is to have a source of dry heat on board. There's nothing like a wood stove on a cold, wet night (in harbour, anyway). Even a big clay pot on your cooking ring is better than nothing. Don't consider catalytic heaters. They produce CO, which you don't want to breathe.
It's great to be equipped for cold weather, and venture out on a crisp fall day quite prepared for a cold night at anchor. You often seem to have the whole water to yourself.

[Dave Hadfield]

Norm,

As a long time northern canoeist and sailor, I'd say you're going to get at least damp regardless. Better to wear brushed wool or polypropylene long johns, and then loose, baggy layers of wool over that as appropriate under your raingear. (Don't forget the suspenders, or you'll trip and fall overboard.) If you find wool scratchy, then buy finer wool. It does exist (or go with poly next to your skin). I used to say: if it's scratchy then I must be warm, but actually, I buy Windsor Wear 90% brushed wool long johns that are very smooth and comfortable.
Keep dry feet. Buy rubber boots that are quite large enough, put a mesh liner in them, and have lots of dry wool socks. Very important. Don't pinch your feet.
The big thing is to have a change of dry clothes. Even better is to have a source of dry heat on board. There's nothing like a wood stove on a cold, wet night (in harbour, anyway). Even a big clay pot on your cooking ring is better than nothing. Don't consider catalytic heaters. They produce CO, which you don't want to breathe.
It's great to be equipped for cold weather, and venture out on a crisp fall day quite prepared for a cold night at anchor. You often seem to have the whole water to yourself.

[Alan D. Hyde]

Norm-------

I have spent a good part of my life outdoors in Maine, often in the winter.

I entirely agree with Dave that WOOL is the way to go.

The Peter Storm site mentioned on another thread looks interesting, and offers many wool products, along with a good explanation of why they work so well.

Alan

[Alan D. Hyde]

Norm-------

I have spent a good part of my life outdoors in Maine, often in the winter.

I entirely agree with Dave that WOOL is the way to go.

The Peter Storm site mentioned on another thread looks interesting, and offers many wool products, along with a good explanation of why they work so well.

Alan

[Alan D. Hyde]

Norm-------

I have spent a good part of my life outdoors in Maine, often in the winter.

I entirely agree with Dave that WOOL is the way to go.

The Peter Storm site mentioned on another thread looks interesting, and offers many wool products, along with a good explanation of why they work so well.

Alan

[Ed Harrow]

Snagit http://www.techsmith.com/ is a screen capture program. It's a really nifty tool, I've used it to copy some of the pictures I've put up here.

The presentation, in this case, was to employees, and was simply to give them a bit of education as to our customers and their processes. Along the way I had to talk about pumps, vacuum and exciting stuff like that. I found (stumbled over, really) a picture of a hand well pump on the harbor Freight Page, and I needed same as I like to, as much as possible tie the unknown to the familiar when teaching concepts. So I had the well pump to compare to a piston roughing (low-vacuum pump), and used percolator to introduce the diffusion pump, a fan for a turbopump, and best of all, of course, a cold bottle of beer for a cryopump.

I was going to prowl the byways of Woodville looking for the well pump, when it was handed to me and, with Snagit, it was an easy thing to snag it from their page and put it into my presentation.

[Ed Harrow]

Snagit http://www.techsmith.com/ is a screen capture program. It's a really nifty tool, I've used it to copy some of the pictures I've put up here.

The presentation, in this case, was to employees, and was simply to give them a bit of education as to our customers and their processes. Along the way I had to talk about pumps, vacuum and exciting stuff like that. I found (stumbled over, really) a picture of a hand well pump on the harbor Freight Page, and I needed same as I like to, as much as possible tie the unknown to the familiar when teaching concepts. So I had the well pump to compare to a piston roughing (low-vacuum pump), and used percolator to introduce the diffusion pump, a fan for a turbopump, and best of all, of course, a cold bottle of beer for a cryopump.

I was going to prowl the byways of Woodville looking for the well pump, when it was handed to me and, with Snagit, it was an easy thing to snag it from their page and put it into my presentation.

[Ed Harrow]

Snagit http://www.techsmith.com/ is a screen capture program. It's a really nifty tool, I've used it to copy some of the pictures I've put up here.

The presentation, in this case, was to employees, and was simply to give them a bit of education as to our customers and their processes. Along the way I had to talk about pumps, vacuum and exciting stuff like that. I found (stumbled over, really) a picture of a hand well pump on the harbor Freight Page, and I needed same as I like to, as much as possible tie the unknown to the familiar when teaching concepts. So I had the well pump to compare to a piston roughing (low-vacuum pump), and used percolator to introduce the diffusion pump, a fan for a turbopump, and best of all, of course, a cold bottle of beer for a cryopump.

I was going to prowl the byways of Woodville looking for the well pump, when it was handed to me and, with Snagit, it was an easy thing to snag it from their page and put it into my presentation.