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"The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails."
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Re: Aleut vs Greenland Inuit kayaks: a Visual Comparison
That's a very nice comparison. Thank you for sharing.Comment
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Re: Aleut vs Greenland Inuit kayaks: a Visual Comparison
For another take on a Baidarka, here is what I did. I built George Dyson’s design, but instead of the aircraft aluminum that he called for, I converted it to wood and made into a folding design as well. I haven’t folded it up all that often but I did pack it up and put it on the plane for a 3+ week long trip to Haida Gwaii a long time ago.
The skin is nylon coated with Hypalon
The frame is Douglas Fir keel and gunwale pieces, stringers are 5/8” Ramin dowels socketed into ¾” alum. tubing. Sockets for the keel and gunwale pieces were fabricated of carbon fibre and Kevlar in epoxy. The whole lot is lashed with Nylon.
End assemblies are mostly ply, held in 3 dimensions with stainless steel machine screws and wing nuts, so that they can pack flat.
Alex
“No matter how bad things may seem, you can always make them worse.” - Robert "Hoot" Gibson, Astronaut
http://www.alexzimmerman.caComment
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Re: Aleut vs Greenland Inuit kayaks: a Visual Comparison
Awesome, Alex! Is that his 5.28 meter design?Comment
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Alex
“No matter how bad things may seem, you can always make them worse.” - Robert "Hoot" Gibson, Astronaut
http://www.alexzimmerman.caComment
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Re: Aleut vs Greenland Inuit kayaks: a Visual Comparison
These humble little boats offer more joy per dollar invested than anything else I've come across. Everyone should have a canoe or kayak in addition to whatever other sort of boats they've got.
Absolutely. I've build one of each type, and am now about 80% of my way through a stripper kayak build. The stripper will cost about 4 times what I spent on each of the SOF boats, and is taking about 3 times as long to put together. Will it be 3 or 4 times as satisfying once I get it in the water?
One other note to the well-thought commentary, James. I find the lower-volume Greenland type much easier to roll, which would lead me to advise that model for anyone who wants to learn a roll or two. As to the tippiness factor, my Greenland boat is only 19" wide, and despite the uneasy sense it gives when starting out, I've have never once gone over accidentally. Same with the baidarka -- a bit wider at 21" -- it doesn't have much initial stability, but loads of reserve. Next, a discussion of traditional paddle styles?-DaveComment
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Re: Aleut vs Greenland Inuit kayaks: a Visual Comparison
All good points, Wox. I too find cedar-stripper to be an almost unbearably tedious, time-consuming, and expensive way to build a boat compared to SOF. Pretty as they might be, I doubt I'll ever build another one that way. Stitch-n-glue ply kayaks are more durable and crunch-resistant anyways, if you're preferring a modern-tech hardshell boat.
Likewise, rolling a low volume Greenland boat is super easy. . .but that doesn't do you a whole lot of good if you're loaded touring. I find that proper outfitting is really the most important factor anyways. You should practice yer moves until you can roll your fully-loaded touring kayak without batting an eye if you really want to be a self-sufficient wilderness padder.
Paddles are indeed worth a post-script. I very much prefer the Aleut type with a dedicated dihedral-ridged power face over the flatly ovalled and symmetrical Greenland type. And I like big, fat blades too. This is of course very much in the eye of the beholder, of course, as there are lots of gung-ho paddlers who prefer skinny Greenland sticks instead, and they are not wrong, not for them. It's all a personal preference.
Actually, to be totally honest, I like my carbon Werner Kalliste better than any of my wooden or traditional paddles. . .which never fails to get me teased at trad. skinboat meets. <sigh> I wish I could like them more, but I use trad. paddles more out of a sense of duty than by genuine preference. Though try as hard as I have over the years to wean myself off of them, I like me a feathered, fat-blade, euro-paddle just fine.Comment
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Re: Aleut vs Greenland Inuit kayaks: a Visual Comparison
Thanks for posting all this James. Any thoughts from you or Harvey on what prompted the different design directions between the Aleut and Greenland boats. What were the builders trying to achieve, how did the different environments and uses the kayaks were put to influence the different design directions?
IanComment
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Re: Aleut vs Greenland Inuit kayaks: a Visual Comparison
good questions. It seems the greenland style boats were used fairly far out at sea, I dont know about the pacific coast type. It might be my experience with dorys talking but the narrow, high, ends of the greenland boat make it look like it might be better in a short steep sea, where the other boat looks like it might be lifted by the bows and stern or submarine them with considerable turbulence.Comment
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Re: Aleut vs Greenland Inuit kayaks: a Visual Comparison
Actually the exact opposite is true, Daniel. The Greenland boats were used close in to the ice pack and up narrow leads in the ice. They were in relatively sheltered waters, considering that we're talking about the Arctic Ocean, of course. It was the Aleut types that were the open-water specialists, designed for longer duration trips over much greater distances in the nasty weather off the Aleutian Islands. A true ikyak has a bunch of carefully crafted joints and lashings allowing for specific flexibility in specific ways intended to ease and improve the boat's motion in big seas. And the bow and stern shape, the higher prismatic, and the peaked decks, handle breaking waves and green water much more handily than the Greenland type. In a chop that would keep the Greenland nearly awash, the baidarka stays on top with aplomb.
Having a fair amount of experience in both of these kinds of boats, I would be far more comfortable being caught in bad weather or negotiating a surf zone in the Aleut baidarka myself. Greenland boats are fun and fast and maneuverable, but honestly, they're simply not as "seaworthy" from my experience, not for big water. Day trips are one thing, but if I was headed out somewhere beyond assistance for a few days, I wouldn't even think twice before picking the baidarka.Comment
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Re: Aleut vs Greenland Inuit kayaks: a Visual Comparison
Right, or to relate the types to whitewater boats, the Greenland is a playboat, the Baidarka a creeker. I'm still learning how my Baidarka behaves and had it out in some chop and swells this weekend. It has massive reserve buoyancy and recovers with authority when you push the bow under. In situations where the Greenland boat would bring solid water washing right over the cockpit, the Baidarka lifts and shrugs it off before it's halfway down the deck. There is speculation, by the way, that one of the principal reasons for the sharp forward rake of the Greenland boats' stem is to make it easy to paddle right up onto an ice shelf.-DaveComment
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Re: Aleut vs Greenland Inuit kayaks: a Visual Comparison
interesting, I suppose once the wave lenght is longer than the hull the ends mater less and less, so it's more about what style keeps you dry.
are the fiberglass expedition type Kayaks out west built to Bardika lines? of all the serious expedition type "SEA" kayaks I've seen people on multi day trecks with around here (NE, Maine island trails, etc.) all that I can remember are on modified Greenland style lines, but that makes sense if the greenland boats are better along shore and designed for landings in difficult conditions and terrain like the coast of Maine. I know every time Ive been kayaking Ive been near shore, within 5 miles, so the greenland style was, in hindsight, the right choice.
It's cool that the Bardika is designed for multi day open water journeys, have you used it that way? most padlers I know do a series of day trips, along shore and like to pull in and camp over night, none of them sleep at sea in their Kayaks.
there's an ancient story of a hunter being blown ashore in his kayak in Ireland or England in the 17-1800's he died a few days later from the toll of his ordeal, assuming that was a greenland type boat.Comment
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Re: Aleut vs Greenland Inuit kayaks: a Visual Comparison
Dear All,
Kayaks in parts of Greenland were every much open water hunting vessels as those of the Aleuts (Unangan). Inhabited Greenland spans some 17 degrees of latitude starting a hair above 60 degrees north. Some Greenlanders would use kayaks year-round in wide open waters. For others it would be a seasonal endeavor, limited to leads in spring and fall, but in open water otherwise. One mustn't confuse fjords with protected waters; I myself have paddled with Greenlanders in a fjord outside of Nuuk during a 70 mph winds storm, and 8' rolling seas. The kayaks we were using (Greenland of course), were especially well suited for it. That said, an Unangan Iqyax would've been perfectly at home in these waters as well. 90% or more of any particular kayak's 'abilities' will lie in the paddler's skill and experience alone.
Briefly, both types are adapted to open water subsistence pursuits. Their variation of form is on account of many factors including ancient cultural-traditional diversion, different hunting weapons, different modes of retrieving game, and a different degree of required adaptability of local/seasonal conditions. The Iqyax or "Baidarkas" folks are most familiar with come from a period when the Unangan were forced into the commercial pursuit of sea otter furs by Russian Colonials. The forms of these kayaks is undoubtedly very different than pre-contact Iqyax would have been-- early contact examples were described as being much shorter and wider. This suggests a form adapted to a broader substance use.
I have not come across any historic descriptions of Unangan willingly over-nighting in their kayaks during hunts, though no doubt it was something that was possible and had to be done on occasion. With regards to Greenlanders making long sea passages, this too would've been accidental, but it is fairly well documented (i.e. South Greenlanders being swept out to sea in storms and turning up on the European coasts). These examples of 'overnighting' successfully at sea must be considered against the fact that many hunters died at sea-- kayak hunting fatality statistics are particularly grim (and well-documented for Greenland).
All the best, Harvey
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Re: Aleut vs Greenland Inuit kayaks: a Visual Comparison
Some place I have a reference that factored in the kind of territory and the kind of game into qajaq design, but I can't remember where. It looked at things like launching and recovery, whether the seal was butchered on rocks or ice of convenience and stowed inside the qajaq to get home or was plugged up and towed or deck carried. It had stuff like launching conditions e.g. the King Islanders needed wicked strong craft. Where the Caribou hunters needed straight line speed on relatively flat water. I'll poke around.Ben Fuller
Ran Tan, Liten Kuhling, Tipsy, Tippy, Josef W., Merry Mouth, Imp, Macavity, Look Far, Flash and a quiver of other 'yaks.
"Bound fast is boatless man."Comment
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Re: Aleut vs Greenland Inuit kayaks: a Visual Comparison
Awesome pics, Harv. Surfing off the Oregon Coast? Can you expand upon which models of boats are in the pics? The top one looks like a West Greenland type to me, and the bottom maybe a copy of the Lowie Museum baidarka from the bow shape, maybe? Love to hear your take on the reasons for the differences between the super low-sided East Greenland boats and the much higher ended types up and around the other side.
I would be indebted if you had some comparitive pics of Greenland vs Aleut paddles to add too, as I broke my last Greenland stick, and am unlikely to build another in the foreseeable future.Comment
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