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Thread: Point Comfort 23 in Brooklyn

  1. #1
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    Default Point Comfort 23 in Brooklyn

    Hi Folks,
    At Timo's suggestion, I've created a new thread to chronicle our build of Doug Hylan's Point Comfort 23. I'd like to mention that we have formed an official new Chapter of the TSCA (Traditional Small Craft Association) in Brooklyn, hosted at the Sebago Canoe Club. For background on the club and shop, go back to this thread.





    I'll copy my last post from the old thread in the next post, so we'll start with the mold set up. Thanks for the suggestion Tim!

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Point Comfort 23 in Brooklyn

    Re: New Boat Shop-New Boat Project

    It's easy to get behind on the updates. I have to stop working on the boat to do it! We are well into the project now, but let's try to stay consecutive with the posts. We picked out the best fir 2x8's we could find, jointed one edge of each, then ripped them all to 7".



    We laid them all out, and picked the best ones for the longitudinals. The strong back for this boat measures 4' wide x 24' long.


    The frame was nailed up and braced diagonally to the trestle bases. There's a notch in each cross piece for the center string line.



    The PC23 plan comes with full size mold templates (a mixed blessing, in my opinion-you lose the joy of lofting, and all the other info that provides as well!). We had one team laying out the molds, with a sharp punch through onto our mold stock. They were careful to keep the centerline and DWL square, and accurate.



    Another team then cut out the molds with a home made track saw. Not as nice as the Festool, but a good bit cheaper!



    I'll continue on with the next post shortly.
    Last edited by jim_cricket; 08-26-2015 at 08:28 PM. Reason: typos

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Point Comfort 23 in Brooklyn

    We laid our cross ties square to the centerline and started the set up with the midship mold.







    One nice thing about steel buildings, is we can hang a magnetic laser mount almost anywhere. You can just make out the orange laser line on this mold.We carefully shimmed up all the molds such that the DWL marked on the molds came right into line with the laser. We also scribed that benchmark onto the walls at several points around the room so we could come back to the same spot to check alignment later in the process. We had some very cold weather during this process, and I was worried a little about frost heave. We had some minor shifting, due more to the fir strong back acclimating to the wood stove being off and on, off and on. A couple of weeks later some small adjustments were made in the set up.



    The molds were all braced back to the midship mold, which was braced diagonally.



    We sprung a batten around the set up, to get a feel for the form. Looking pretty cool! I'll try to get the next batch of pics up a little quicker. Thanks for looking.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Point Comfort 23 in Brooklyn

    Thanks. I'll be following with great interest. This may be my next boat project. Are you doing the cabin?
    Chuck Thompson

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    Default Re: Point Comfort 23 in Brooklyn

    Me too. If this design had been out sooner it most likely would have been my current project.
    Chuck it looks like a great design for the low country coast.
    Fight Entropy, build a wooden boat!

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Point Comfort 23 in Brooklyn

    I may have asked you this on another thread, but is the PC staved with ply up front?
    Re-naming straits as necessary.

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    Default Re: Point Comfort 23 in Brooklyn

    Watching this with great interest. What's the power plant going to be?
    "A man builds the best of himself into a boat- builds many of the memories of his ancestors." -Steinbeck

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Point Comfort 23 in Brooklyn

    Hi Chuck, no cabin. This is an open work boat that serves as sail instruction support, and regatta management, plus general yard boat. We want the big, open space, though I could see fitting a canvas cabin for a run up to Mystic, say.

    Reynard, that's an awesome Betty you got going there. You must be close to launching. Seems quite a different type project from the PC23. Looks like apples and oranges.

    Dave, the forefoot is cold molded from 2 layers of 9mm meranti. Total hull skin is 18mm. Pretty robust. There is a whole lot of twist real quick up in the bow. I just got done with the preliminary bevel on the stem.

    I'll try to keep up with the pics a little better.
    Cricket

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    Default Re: Point Comfort 23 in Brooklyn

    Thanks so much for the posts..This looks like a fun project and a great boat.

    PaulT

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    Default Re: Point Comfort 23 in Brooklyn

    With the molds up, we made a trip out to Condons Lumber in White Plains for some doug fir. I called ahead, and had them bring in some hunks of 5/4 and 8/4 from the Stormville yard. I didn't know what to expect, sight unseen, but we had some beautiful, tight grained vg rough sawn boards to pick from. We paid dear for it- $6.25 a bd ft., but I'm frankly grateful there are still logs like that to be found, and it should be dear. Let's just not give it away to the Chinese.



    I deviated from Doug Hylan's specs a little bit, deciding to build the keelson solid- 1-1/2" thick, and 5-1/2" wide, instead of a fir-ply-fir sandwich. I'd be happy with either arrangement, but the solid is less work. The stem was called out at 4 layers of 18mm meranti. I did not want to bevel through all the glue lines, after a real battle with my solid ply plank keel on the Matinicus, so I opted for an inner layer of 18mm meranti, and two outer skins of fir, for a total thickness of about 2-15/16". The chine logs and sheer clamps are 1" thick x 2" wide. All of the longitudinals were dressed square, then scarfed up to length on the bench, then ripped out and planed to finished width and thickness.


    Looking over the keelson stock.



    To scarf the boards, we used a skil-saw, cutting from both edges, then finishing out the cut with a Japanese saw. This is a quick way to get the scarf roughed out.



    The joints are then planed down to the line, flat and square with a #6 fore, and finished out with a block plane. Because this is a learning opportunity for a lot of people, we switched methods a bit, and let everyone have a go at the process. Some of our group have never done this kind of joinery before, so it was great experience for them.



    Time for supper! More later....

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Point Comfort 23 in Brooklyn

    I think I'll pick up the plans and stop by DN Hylan when I'm up there in June.

    Mark-I'm convinced your right. Yours will be a prettier boat though. Well worth the effort.
    Chuck Thompson

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    Default Re: Point Comfort 23 in Brooklyn

    Condon's Stormville yard is one of my favorite places to go. A great resource.

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    Default Re: Point Comfort 23 in Brooklyn

    This is good. Thanks for posting.

    Kevin
    There are two kinds of boaters: those who have run aground, and those who lie about it.

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    Default Re: Point Comfort 23 in Brooklyn

    This is a good, good time here folks. For those of you who have been instilled with the fear of staving--watch, listen and learn. This is real boatbuilding here.
    Re-naming straits as necessary.

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Point Comfort 23 in Brooklyn

    I'll post more pics later, but to answer some questions. Potomac, I'm not totally sure what motor we'll use. One reason for choosing this boat is that it is easy to power. Doug's max recommendation is 60. We have a Honda 30 now, and Doug actually thought that we might not be too disappointed with even that. Maybe it will run 12 mph with that motor. My ideal would be a Yamaha 50, or maybe an E-Tec 50. We do have a budget to consider, and I don't know what I might get for the Honda against a new Yamaha. Ultimate speed is not a consideration, but I don't want to be at the max available power all the time w/ the 30. We looked hard at the Handy Billy 21, because it is tailor made for the power we have, but in the end we thought the PC23 was a much better boat for our situation. A lot more initial stability, and a much bigger interior volume. So, we'll see.

    Dave, I don't consider this forefoot to be staved, exactly. True, the ply planks are hung vertically, and there is a transition from overlap of the topsides to a butt up near about station 4. I think the cold molded, double layer is a good bit easier to do than an actual staved and hewn solid wood forefoot and cross planked bottom. But I am excited to plank this nice bow, whatever you call the method. I've been wanting to do one of these for a while. If we had done the Handy Billy, I'd plank it the same way. Doug Hylan built 4 HB's, and the last 3 I think were plywood planked. It suits our operation a good deal better.

    At any rate, the group is excited to be doing this kind of work. We'll see how that excitement is tempered when it comes time for glassing and fairing the hull. We hope to have a big roll-over party this fall.

    Cricket

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    Default Re: Point Comfort 23 in Brooklyn

    Quote Originally Posted by chuckt View Post
    I think I'll pick up the plans and stop by DN Hylan when I'm up there in June.

    Mark-I'm convinced your right. Yours will be a prettier boat though. Well worth the effort.
    Doug's shop is well worth the visit. I picked up the Coquina plans there.
    Fight Entropy, build a wooden boat!

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Point Comfort 23 in Brooklyn

    We finished planing, and checked all the scarfs before gluing up.





    The long bench helps, but I have two 12' long laminated plywood beams that I use for things like this. We set them up end to end and with a dead straight long edge to reference our scarfed pieces against. The beams are shimmed up off the bench so you can get a clamp head underneath. The scarfs are clamped up through the beams.



    The 25' timbers are pretty straight when they come off the beams, but I trued up one edge of each timber with a fore plane to take care of any local humps around the scarf, then ran the pieces on each face and each edge through the planer to final dimension. Each pair of chine logs and sheer clamps was gotten from one 1" x 4-1/2" board, ripped down the middle and edge planed.

    Next up are the transom and stem. The transom is laminated from 2- 18mm pieces, so about 1-7/16" thick overall. There will be fir framing around the inside as well, but that will wait until the boat is upright, and we can frame up for the decks and splash-well bulkheads at the same time. Once the framing is notched around the keelson and chines, and glued and filleted in, it will be rugged.



    We glued, screwed, and clamped the transom together, being careful to glue up on a flat and level surface- no twist!



    And here she is set up on the boat!

    Stem is next....

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Point Comfort 23 in Brooklyn

    Nice work, nice boat

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Point Comfort 23 in Brooklyn

    Very nice.....I like that.
    I once thought I was wrong, but I was wrong, I wasn't wrong.

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Point Comfort 23 in Brooklyn

    On to the stem. As I said, the design called for a 4 layer meranti stem, but I would rather bevel solid wood. We put in a meranti core which with it's cross laminations does a good job of holding everything together. The outside laminates are 1-1/16" thick fir, in two pieces mitered at the knee, and joined with a tongue and groove joint. Total stem thickness is just north of 2- 7/8". You'll notice a blip at the location of the chine logs which supports the long beveled heel of the chine, without unduly increasing the molded stem dimension. Likewise, the stem head is wider to accept the sheer clamps.


    The stem pattern is used as a pattern to rout out the core laminate.


    The pattern is used to lay out the outer fir laminates.


    You can see the tongue on the knee here. We are coating the laminates in preparation for the glue up.


    Here we are all clamped up.


    The joinery is evident here.

    Stay tuned We're rolling. Plus, I just got budget approval for a new bandsaw for the shop!
    Cricket

  21. #21
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    Default Re: Point Comfort 23 in Brooklyn

    Noyce!

    Kevin
    There are two kinds of boaters: those who have run aground, and those who lie about it.

  22. #22
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    Default Re: Point Comfort 23 in Brooklyn

    What kind of plywood are you suing for the hull?
    Chuck Thompson

  23. #23
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    Default Re: Point Comfort 23 in Brooklyn

    Quote Originally Posted by chuckt View Post
    What kind of plywood are you suing for the hull?
    Bs 1088 Meranti 18mm total thickness hull. 36mm transom. Structural bulkheads also meranti, but console frame probably occume with a t&g Spanish cedar skin.

  24. #24
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    Default Re: Point Comfort 23 in Brooklyn

    More stem stuff- The chine blip was glued onto the aft face, and provides extra land for the long bevel on the chine log. The outer stem bolts to the inner with bronze carriage bolts, and to this end I drilled out for the bolt holes on the drill press. When the outer stem goes on, we can drill out from the inside, keeping the bolt centered and lined up. Hard to do by eye (at least for me).


    Stem is shimmed up on the drill press so the bolt path is drilled as laid out.





    We pre-beveled the stem from the bearding line to the half siding lines on the leading edge, as called out in the drawings, though we stopped short of the lines a little to allow some latitude in the final set up.


    There is a lot of wood to remove, which was done with a variety of tools, from drawknife, through power plane, to spokeshave.


    Howie gives the spokeshave a workout.

    We are setting up the chines and sheer clamps today!
    Last edited by jim_cricket; 05-09-2015 at 07:34 AM. Reason: typo

  25. #25
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    Default Re: Point Comfort 23 in Brooklyn

    Hi -- recommended to this thread by another member. I need a little help making repairs on my 16.5' Town Class wooden sailboat. Looking for someone who can help with rotten cross braces and to replace a few straps in the cockpit. Time is a little tight -- this week would be ideal since they need me out of the parking lot... I'm at Gateway Marina.

  26. #26
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    Default Re: Point Comfort 23 in Brooklyn

    At this point the stem is on, and the chines are being fitted. There's a lot of twist in the chines up forward, as might be expected, but I've done worse. They didn't exactly flop right in there, but a clamp to give some leverage helped with the twist. We faired the line of the chine a bit, shimming up or down on the molds a little, to get a fair run The in-out direction was pretty good. Doug's mold patterns were pretty right on. We dry fitted the chines and measured the bevels at the stem, then took them off to make that cut.


    Chine cut where it meets the stem in a compound bevel.

    We left the chine on and made the easier transom cut right on the boat. Then we glued and temp screwed the joints to the stem and transom.







    The bevels are now cut on the keelson and chines, working carefully from aft (easier) to forward (much harder!) For the chine, we made a saw cut down to the line of the mold, then sprung a batten around those points to find the fair line of the junction between bottom and topsides. This provides a handy guide line to bevel to, though it's best to hold off the line some and work the keelson and chine bevels together. I don't have a picture, but I came up with the idea back when building Cricket, to use a length of angle iron with sticky back 80 grit paper attached. This makes a handy fairing tool to get the bevels co-planar and flat. Works great!
    More later...

  27. #27
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    Default Re: Point Comfort 23 in Brooklyn

    Looks like you guys are having a great time and moving right along! Thanks for sharing. Nice tip pre-drilling inner stem on the press to make things easier later.

    Mike
    "near it, a small whale-boat, painted red and blue, the delight of the king's old age."

  28. #28
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    Default Re: Point Comfort 23 in Brooklyn

    A little more progress. We just bought a new bandsaw for the shop. I was a little leery of Grizzly, and I considered the Laguna 14-12, hoping neither would disappoint me too much, as I already own a Minimax MM16. But that was all the budget we had. Turns out I love the way the Grizzly runs. Nicely balanced wheels, smooth start up and operation, and plenty of power. My only complaint is that the lower thrust bearing is ridiculously hard to adjust. the lock screw is way in there, and you have to work your hand and an allen key in there to loosen and tighten the lock. Will make blade width changes annoying, but I tend to run a 1/2" blade most of the time, so we'll see how it works out. Very nice cutting machine though. Wish I had splurged for the foot brake.



    I mentioned our angle iron fairing stick. It's a three foot or so length of 1/8" x 1.5" steel angle, with sticky back 80 grit paper on it. 60 would be better. The tool is used to check that the surfaces are coplanar, and then rubbed back and forth to tune up the bevels. I might try a really thin piece that I could twist in the bow.


    Hans is checking the bevels back aft. The paper is visible on the angle in this shot.



    I thought the sheer clamps would be hard to bend and twist around the boat up fwd, but it turned out to be not so bad.


    We clamped, then screwed both chines and sheer clamps to small blocks screwed into the molds.


    Both sheer clamps are on, and beveling the bow is underway.

  29. #29

    Default Re: Point Comfort 23 in Brooklyn

    Nice work so far!
    I guess most of that chippings on the workshop floor came from beveling the keelson. Quite a tricky part - specially from around station 3 forward to the stem.

  30. #30
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    Default Re: Point Comfort 23 in Brooklyn

    Looks like a cool project. This might have been my current project, too, had it been available 4 years ago.

    My own design 22' runabout is very similar with a very sharp fore foot and long flat run. http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...rboat-abuildin

    .................PC23.......My boat
    LWL...........21'10".......21'5"
    Beam..........6'10".......7'4"
    Hull weight..1500......1460 estimated
    Deadrise........?...........16 degrees

    Here's some performance data with an ETEC 60
    ..............MPH
    RPM......Speed.......HP
    2000.......7.4..........8
    3000......12.3........17
    4000......18.3........27
    5000......25.0........44
    5800......29.4........60 Actual speed at WOT. Other HP data is calculated from fuel burn.

    If Hylan's 1500# weight estimate is accurate your boat ought to be a little faster than mine for the same power. It's a little narrower and looks to have less deadrise.
    Denny Wolfe
    www.wolfEboats.com

  31. #31
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    Default Re: Point Comfort 23 in Brooklyn

    Thanks for the comments. Woody B, the bevels up forward are tricky indeed. We are happy to add some organic mulch to our dirt floor. I hope to have the keelson all beveled this weekend. Anxious to start planking.

    That's an interesting comparison Denny, and good data from your actual boat. The PC23 has a bit less deadrise aft, it looks like. Your hull is more complex, and well engineered, I'm sure. The PC is just a big skiff, really. I think a 50 would be ideal power for us, though I might start with the Honda 30 we already own. Doug Hylan thinks we might be surprised at the performance from that motor. It will come to budget in the end, and if I can wrangle some funds, I might trade the 30 in for a 50 or 60.

    I have enjoyed looking at both of your projects, Woody B and Denny. Great stuff!

  32. #32
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    Default Re: Point Comfort 23 in Brooklyn

    I like the angle iron sanding tool.

    Have you been in a PC23? One question I have in my mind was whether it will be pretty stable if you are throwing a cast net from the stern. Looks like it would be. Wouldn't happen to know would you?
    Chuck Thompson

  33. #33
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    Default Re: Point Comfort 23 in Brooklyn

    Planning ahead for some low country shrimp?
    Fight Entropy, build a wooden boat!

  34. #34
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    Default Re: Point Comfort 23 in Brooklyn

    Good initial stability is one reason I chose the PC23 over the Handy Billy 21. Beam is 6' 10", and the aft sections show not much deadrise. I have not been on one, and I don't know if one has been launched yet. Ours might be the first. Might be nice to have a raised platform back aft for casting a net.

    Meanwhile, progress continues. We've got the chines and stem faired up, with only a little touch up left to do.



    I hate to make mistakes, much less admit to them, but I over cut the stem bevel where it fairs into the keelson. I precut it on the bench, and made a mistake in the bearding layout as it comes across the knee. So we had to do a little back-filling in this region, with some cedar and some fairing compound, to get the bevels right. Won't matter in the long run, just annoying. There is a lot of stem to remove in this very fine bow, and it took a bit of work. We were glad that it was fir and not white oak!


    You can see the patch here. There is a piece of meranti ply added to the top of the keelson to increase the bearing surface for the planking, as the keelson gets very narrow up there. The forward bulkhead will bear against the end of that blocking when it finally goes in.

    We got the first pair of topsides planking on back aft on Sunday. We are gaining some momentum now.


    Hans is getting ready to cut the first pair of planks.



    After thirty years of using West epoxy, I switched over to System 3 for this boat. I had loved the premixed Quick Fair product, and thought I would try their Gel Magic bonding resin. Love it! The resin is gloppy thick, but mixes easy, and measures easy at 2:1. No pumps to malfunction. It wets out pretty easy, and produces a perfect non sag mix with no additives. Looks about like the Six-10 when it comes out of the tube. We also bought laminating resin for the fabric.


    Here's the first planks on. We fastened with D/W screws, and will pull them and fasten with bronze after curing.

    Thanks for looking.

  35. #35
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    Default Re: Point Comfort 23 in Brooklyn

    What thickness ply for the planking? It looks pretty heavy duty from here.

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