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Thread: Beg Meil in Nova Scotia

  1. #36
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    Default Re: Beg Meil in Nova Scotia

    looks great!

  2. #37
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    Default Re: Beg Meil in Nova Scotia

    Recovering from my broken wing and Christmas has given me time to plan ahead and do some shop clean up. I had a couple of questions come up from this which I am hoping to get some clarity on as I plan to get back at it as soon as I get back from my trip across the pond.

    I have a number of mahogany boards that I plan to use throughout the project which I had purchased a while ago and one I discovered is not mahogany but meranti. I am wondering what I can use this for in the build if I can use it at all? I know its characteristics are not great but I am wondering if it can be used for pieces such as the centreboard posts which will be heavily epoxied, pieces that are not structurally significant or in the water much. The other option is to leave it out all together. It would be nice to use the wood but if it is going to be a liability then I will look to avoid it.

    The other question was about the graphite used by some builders in there centreboard. This is inexperience talking but I cannot find powdered graphite anywhere in a quantity more than is used to deice door locks. I am wondering what people used and how much? I can get it in aerosol here or worse case I can buy a few of the lock deicers. I found some on amazon but it would have been 50 bucks which seemed a bit much.

    thanks again and once I get back at it I will post some pics although the other Beg Meil builds out there are hard to compare too!

  3. #38
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    Default Re: Beg Meil in Nova Scotia

    Quote Originally Posted by billsan View Post

    The other question was about the graphite used by some builders in there centreboard. This is inexperience talking but I cannot find powdered graphite anywhere in a quantity more than is used to deice door locks. I am wondering what people used and how much? I can get it in aerosol here or worse case I can buy a few of the lock deicers. I found some on amazon but it would have been 50 bucks which seemed a bit much.
    Hi Bill,

    I purchased my graphite from Jamestown Distributors:

    https://www.jamestowndistributors.co...raphite+Powder

    This can is enough for a fleet of Beg-Meils. If you have plans to come to New England, I can send you home with plenty for a centerboard well.

    Best wishes

  4. #39
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    Default Re: Beg Meil in Nova Scotia

    Meranti can be perfectly adequate for the use you suggest. If it is deep red in colour rather than the anaemic pink which it sometimes can be you could also use it for trim items in the boat which will be clear finished. Ok it's not mahogany but it is not all bad either.

    Cheers

    Graeme

  5. #40
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    Default Re: Beg Meil in Nova Scotia

    Dean, that is very gracious of you but I do not plan to be near Boston until the summer and I was hoping to get this done well beforehand. You are already well ahead of me and I dont want to keep slipping Jamestown looks like a great shop but with the exchange rate and shipping to Canada I am sure it would cost upwards of 50 bucks. I think I may just use a number of the small lock deicers. Do you remember how much you mixed in? I read somewhere that someone used a tablespoon per 5 pumps and I was wondering if that was the same for this application.

    Thanks Graeme, that is what I expected but I wasnt sure. The wood is a bit pink however when I put some varnish on it darkened nicely. I think I will do as you suggested use it for thwart supports, the centreboard parts etc and save the real mahogany for the important areas.

    looking forward to getting back at it for sure!

  6. #41
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    Default Re: Beg Meil in Nova Scotia

    Quote Originally Posted by billsan View Post
    Do you remember how much you mixed in? I read somewhere that someone used a tablespoon per 5 pumps and I was wondering if that was the same for this application.
    for your reference:
    [IMG]Untitled by Jason D, on Flickr[/IMG]

  7. #42
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    Default Re: Beg Meil in Nova Scotia

    Jason,

    Much appreciated, I will owe you a few beers the next time I am in Florida for the help. It's funny how the simplest things are hard to find here. Cheers

  8. #43
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    Default Re: Beg Meil in Nova Scotia

    Centreboard questions

    Good afternoon all,

    I am plugging away in our little cold snap (-25Cish) and pretty much have the centreboard case... cased. I am just about to glue in the posts which gives the case its thickness but before I did so I wanted to ask Francois about the centreboard. I have been thinking about the necessity of the steel centreboard especially since the Ilur does not have one and uses plywood instead, here is the conversation:



    I hope that my email finds you well and that life is not to taxing these days for you. I had a question about my Beg Meil build. I see on the WB forum that there has been some discussion regarding the steel centreboard in the Beg Meil vice the wooden one in Ilur. I am curious as I have seen others are if the steel centerboard is absolutely require or if a wooden centerboard with added weight and strengthened with fiberglass is now acceptable. From what I understand the heavier CB is because of the added sail area and I expect that it is still required but before I close up my CB case I thought I would ask.


    Thanks in advance,Actually, this kind of open boat is never heeling so much at sea and, therefore, the weight of the centreboard has a minor effect. The main interest of the steel centreboard is to ease recovering after capsize. That means you may replace the board by a wooden one, provided to modify accordingly the width of the case and may be also the keel. If you intend to sail singlehanded or with only a light crew, it is useful to add some internal ballast as compensation.

    I Have a few fallout questions:

    1. Has anyone that built the BM built it with a plywood CB and if so how would you rate it, and did anyone who build the Ilur wish they built it with a Steel CB or made any modifications to the plywood one that they have?

    2. Could someone with the Ilur plans let me know what the specs are for the CB and the centreboard case, (i am thinking of the thickness specifically). If I went with plywood I was thinking 2 x 9mm plywood pieces sandwiched together, a lead ballast about 2x the size of the one in the rudder and then covered by 2x fibreglass cloth (maybe 1 would do.) and fairing the centreboard as required. Based on this I was thinking about increasing the CB case from 18mm on the inside to 24-26.

    3. Regards to performance I am not an experienced sailor and I am curious about the necessity of the steel CB to right the boat if she flounders. If I sail cautiously is this a major concern and are there other ways to right the boat if I did go with the steel board? I am concerned that this may not be necessary if I sail to the conditions and can learn to right the boat using another method.

    Any thoughts or additional points are always welcome,


    thanks

  9. #44
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    Default Re: Beg Meil in Nova Scotia

    I would not use ply for a cb half the plys are going the wrong way. Better to usem solid wood. Df would be good.

  10. #45
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    Default Re: Beg Meil in Nova Scotia

    Hi Bill,
    I used solid for my DB on Swift (glued up pieces, then shaped.) For my Ilur I might do the same or use ply as per the plans.

    The plans have the slot at 26 mm, and the board at 2 layers of 10 mm ply, sheathed. I, too like the idea of a bit of lead in there for ballast, though it's not specc'ed in the plans.

    I did put lead in my rudder, which is ply, and which I didn't bother sheathing in glass.

    I do plan on making the board fit snugly in the slot by following John Hartmann's method of gluing a disc of HDPE or some slippery plastic of a wide-ish diameter (4-5") at the pivot point.
    Check his build thread if you are interested. It seems like it would eliminate rattling and spread the load.

    Good luck,

    Mike
    "near it, a small whale-boat, painted red and blue, the delight of the king's old age."

  11. #46
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    Default Re: Beg Meil in Nova Scotia

    Thanks guys, after reading about the merits of a solid wood CB I did some research and I am going to go that way. I will follow the Ilur specs that you mentioned Mike, a 26mm wide CB case and I will build the CB to 20mm thickness. I think I will make it out of DF and may make the leading edge out of red oak. I will also cover it in glass to ensure it is well protected.

    I have been reading the various threads on Ilur and BM builds over and over it feels (yours is great btw Mike and coincidentally I learned we have the same birthday from it. From reading them I am wondering about the merits of the lead weight in the CB and even now the rudder. As you mention the plans don’t call for extra weight and from what I can tell the newer version of the plans for one or both boats don’t have weight in rudder as well as long as the rudder is held in place by tension. Even though I can carry on with the build I am going to look into and ponder using no weight in the rudder and CB. I will then us some of the methods described here to keep the two of them in place by what seems to be tension vice weight. As I will be sailing alone a lot I will use lead ballast under the floor boards to help.
    I will have to look into the setup of gear for the CB and rudder for the Ilur vice BM. If the CB is a lot lighter I am assuming that I could use the Ilur setup like John uses vice what is outline in the plans. That will be a down the road issue but at any rate I am with you Mike that I will certainly be ensuring it is a tight fit like John did, I think if it is loose only bad things can happen.
    This building experience is like learning from a fire hose….

  12. #47
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    Default Re: Beg Meil in Nova Scotia

    Pics Bill, we need to see pics. Glad you're making progress. I have made a bit as well. Trying to make bolts to start assembling my backbone. I build a solid CB for my 420 years ago. White oak. Glassed it entirely. I am building a solid Black Locust CB for my Catspaw. I'll either epoxy it together or bolt it. Depending on how brave I feel with my drill hand when it comes time......
    If one advances confidently in the direction of his dreams, and endeavors to live the life which he has imagined, he will meet with a success unexpected in common hours.
    -Henry David Thoreau-

  13. #48
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    Default Re: Beg Meil in Nova Scotia

    Dan, I will get some pics up this week I hope. I am waiting to get the CB at least in somewhat good order and the shop disaster sorted out before I do so. I am gluing everything up and am going to try and stay away from mechanical fasteners as much as possible to avoid weak points down the road. If this storm ever ends I am going to pick up some more DF as I am going to build the CB case thicker than what is in the plans to allow for a wooden CB.

  14. #49
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    Default Re: Beg Meil in Nova Scotia

    Hi Bill,

    If you make the centerboard case thicker, I think you will have to adjust the C4 and C5 bulkheads by a similar amount to preserve the lines.

    I'm struggling with fitting the clamps to the notches in the bulkheads. Very frustrating...

    Good luck,

  15. #50
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    Default Re: Beg Meil in Nova Scotia

    Shoot I never thought of that. I am planning to increasing the CB from 18-30mm which would mean 6mm increase per side. Off the top of my head I could reduce the end of the tenon and then take the same 6mm back on the bulkhead portion that the tenon comes from so that that there is a full sized tenon and with the bit less bulkhead it should fit in with the same geometry and preserve the lines. I am not sure if that makes sense and I will have to think on it, thanks for sure for bringing that to my attention.

    Are you talking about the clamps that will eventually support the deck? If so you are really moving along and I can see how that would be a challenge if you are working solo.

    Bill

  16. #51
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    Default Re: Beg Meil in Nova Scotia

    If you are thinking of reducing some thickness of material, I would suggest using my favourite....... Black Locust. I have some if you want to stop by my place. I'm sure we can come up with a fair price to sell you a few BF of it. You'd need to glue some up to make boards wide enough to make a CB case out of but BL glues easily. The trade off is that you could make the parts significantly smaller and not lose the strength. BL is about 130% the strength of White Oak so you can thin it a bit without worrying about strength loss. Weight is the penalty but in your boat, it's not a problem. It would add a couple of pounds over DF for the overall weight of the boat. You're not lifting it off a trailer or anything, it will be floated on and off.
    If one advances confidently in the direction of his dreams, and endeavors to live the life which he has imagined, he will meet with a success unexpected in common hours.
    -Henry David Thoreau-

  17. #52
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    Default Re: Beg Meil in Nova Scotia

    Quote Originally Posted by DeanP View Post
    Hi Bill,

    If you make the centerboard case thicker, I think you will have to adjust the C4 and C5 bulkheads by a similar amount to preserve the lines.

    I'm struggling with fitting the clamps to the notches in the bulkheads. Very frustrating...

    Good luck,
    Quote Originally Posted by billsan View Post
    Shoot I never thought of that. I am planning to increasing the CB from 18-30mm which would mean 6mm increase per side. Off the top of my head I could reduce the end of the tenon and then take the same 6mm back on the bulkhead portion that the tenon comes from so that that there is a full sized tenon and with the bit less bulkhead it should fit in with the same geometry and preserve the lines. I am not sure if that makes sense and I will have to think on it, thanks for sure for bringing that to my attention.

    Are you talking about the clamps that will eventually support the deck? If so you are really moving along and I can see how that would be a challenge if you are working solo.

    Bill
    Dean raises a great point, and I think it would be easiest to shave 6 mm off each mortise and augment with a hefty fillet. I think that would avoid your having to adjust a bunch of other dimensions that should line up, like the long stringer and the slots for the oar storage.

    [IMG]image by Jason D, on Flickr[/IMG]

    [IMG]Untitled by Jason D, on Flickr[/IMG]

  18. #53
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    Default Re: Beg Meil in Nova Scotia

    Quote Originally Posted by DeanP View Post
    I'm struggling with fitting the clamps to the notches in the bulkheads. Very frustrating...
    Dean, I definitely needed to "steam" the douglas fir clamps towards the bow. I use quotes on steam, because I just used a cloth soaked with boiling water and wrapped it around the timber. That limbered it up enough to bend without snapping. Before getting the hot towel tip on the forum, I actually snapped one and had to scarf another section on, but let's not dwell on that. With all my mistakes, I can now make a scarf in 2 minutes flat blindfolded. As they say, it's not the mistakes you make, but how well you recover from them!

    Here's a picture of the great scarfing cover-up (just aft of the forward bulkhead):
    [IMG]image by Jason D, on Flickr[/IMG]
    Good luck.

    Jason
    Last edited by JasonD; 02-16-2017 at 06:56 PM.

  19. #54
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    Default Re: Beg Meil in Nova Scotia

    https://68.media.tumblr.com/8f1cd1c3...vwmbo3_540.jpg
    https://68.media.tumblr.com/9175636a...wmbo2_1280.jpg
    https://68.media.tumblr.com/7c191eca...wmbo1_1280.jpg

    Although it has been a while due to my broken wings there is finally a bit of progress to report. I am hoping the pictures show up and if they do you can see the centreboard case is nearing completion. I decided to build the outer layer of solid cherry (ill post tomorrow) and am going to go with a wooden centreboard vice a steel one. I talked to Francois and he recommended a 22mm solid wood CB and to build the case at least 6mm wider. With that in mind I will build the CB 22mm thick and glass it (maybe see you Dan for some BL) and I built the case 32mm wide which is quite a bit larger than in the plans. He also mentioned adding weight to the CB but I am going to review what other people have done (John H I believe) to see if there are other methods out there.

    Tomorrow I am going to clean up and add the carbon fiber on the wearing parts. and get ready to close the case. I am hoping to also cut the strips for the false stem so that I can put that together this weekend as well. I'll post some pics of that as well but I will try to avoid posting the same type of pics that others have already done. I will focus on pics and discussions on any alterations I make or my experiences as a first time builder.

  20. #55
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    Default Re: Beg Meil in Nova Scotia

    Jason,

    Thanks for the pics and the input, it helps for sure to have that sanity check and I agree Dean saved me a lot of heartache. I am looking forward to finally getting this thing up on the strongback and seeing how it will look.

    B

  21. #56
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    Default Re: Beg Meil in Nova Scotia



    Here is to hoping that this attempt to post pictures goes better than the last. Tonight I managed to rip the stock for the false stem and as you can see I have it clamped to the stem to try and form it a bit before I glue it up most likely tomorrow night. I am thinking however I may do it over two nights to simplify the process and to avoid needles rushing and the problems that come with that.

    I also cut the transom out and will begin to do some light bevelling this week before I put it up on the strongback. i will also have to cut the mortise in the forward end of it so that the transom knee can be secured to it. I have been doing a lot of reading on whether I should apply epoxy to it as it is solid wood or just varnish. The rest of the boat will be coating so I am thinking I should do the same here. The other potential option I have thought of is epoxy the inside and use varnish on the outside which will be easier to reapply when the time comes.

    Once I get these tasks done I am going to start putting it all up on the strong back. I cannot wait as it has been a long time coming.

  22. #57
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    Default Re: Beg Meil in Nova Scotia

    One problem with epoxying one face but not the other is moisture transfer. Moisture will move in and out of the uncoated face freely which will expand and contract the wood. The other face will not move as much because the moisture is kept in (or out) with a barrier(the epoxy). Best practice is generally to coat everything if you're going to coat something. Epoxy boats should be covered completely and at all times with epoxy. Fix any nicks you find as soon as you can. If it necessitates sailing home with water soaking into the hull for a week then you should allow the hull to dry out again before fixing the damage. Long story short, coat both faces or you risk causing damage when some wood tries to move and other wood doesn't.
    If one advances confidently in the direction of his dreams, and endeavors to live the life which he has imagined, he will meet with a success unexpected in common hours.
    -Henry David Thoreau-

  23. #58
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    Default Re: Beg Meil in Nova Scotia

    Apropos Sailor's comment, could you varnish over the outer transom face once sealed with epoxy?

  24. #59
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    Default Re: Beg Meil in Nova Scotia

    Quote Originally Posted by schoonerjay View Post
    Apropos Sailor's comment, could you varnish over the outer transom face once sealed with epoxy?
    Bill, for what it's worth I took the route mentioned by schooner jay: I used West System Special Clear epoxy hardener (no amine blush, takes varnish easily) for two or so coats of epoxy then I will varnish it over top of the epoxy for UV protection and a nice gloss. Also, my understanding (perhaps naive?) is that one can maintain the varnish but not sand down to bare wood, presumably, as long as decent maintenance routine is used. We'll see how that goes!

    Jason

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