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Thread: Beg Meil in Nova Scotia

  1. #1
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    Default Beg Meil in Nova Scotia

    Well I have been on this forum now for some time and have bounced between 3 design ideas, 2 homes, 2 deployments and now my forth posting. I have been waiting for the "best time" to start my boat building project but realizing that this unicorn is never going to appear I am going to get underway. I have as you can see settled on Beg Meil as it encompasses many of the aspects I am looking for. A build that I can complete before I have grandkids, a boat that will fit in my shop and to top it all off a beauty of a boat that I can handle easily by myself. The other designs, Stir Ven and Jewell are wonderful as well but in the end it was Beg Meil.

    I have now cleared out my new shop, a two car garage that was my reward for agreeing to move in across from my inlaws and I am almost ready to go. I am now waiting for my trailer to surface from underneath the snow so that I can start picking up some plywood and I am looking forward to the comments of the forum and seeing the other Beg Meil builds here I have some big shoes to follow. It will be slow going especially with being away quite a bit but in the end I look forward to the process no matter how long it takes and how many comments on being crazy I will have to endure.

    Regarding the plywood available in my area what I am seeing is from Jobert which I have seen to be a reliable supplier. The one issue that I am already seeing is that the plans call for 15mm ply for some of the bulkheads which of course is unavailable so it is either 13mm or 18mm. I expect to also deck the boat with Douglas Fir so wight already is concerning me especially if I start adding weight with the ply. Meranti is avail in 15mm but I am not so certain that it is a good option. As I can already see this build is going to be an adventure!!

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Beg Meil in Nova Scotia

    Welcome, and congrats on picking a great boat to build! I am sure you will enjoy it thoroughly as have I, and I look forward to watching the thread for pictures.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Beg Meil in Nova Scotia

    Quote Originally Posted by billsan View Post

    The one issue that I am already seeing is that the plans call for 15mm ply for some of the bulkheads which of course is unavailable so it is either 13mm or 18mm.
    You could always get a sheet of 6mm and 9mm if available, and laminate them together? More work, but right size.

    Quote Originally Posted by billsan View Post
    Meranti is avail in 15mm but I am not so certain that it is a good option.
    I built my 16 foot cabin sailboat (a bit like beg meil but lighter) from Meranti. Going on 2 years and she's solid as a rock and in great shape. If going Meranti (which i expect would be just fine particularly in bulkheads internally), I would just suggest going to the supplier in person and choosing your boards. Look for even-ish plies, and no weird voids or fills in face and eges.

    I know there's a few horror stories about cheap ply out there, but they're few, and it's rare to have people logging onto websites online and celebrating that the things they expect to work - work. That's just expected.

    just a personal story, but meranti was fine for me. I left an uncoated scrap panel half-buried in soil outside for a year beside a water tank that is often completely sodden, and it did not a) rot, or b) delaminate in that time - not the exposed bit or the buried bit..

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Beg Meil in Nova Scotia

    I have cut up 3 sheets of the BS6566 Red Meranti, into fairly small pieces I was quite impressed that there were no voids found. It was from East Coast Hardwoods, I assume that is who you are dealing with. There is also Noah's in Ont. where a friend used to order and have shipped. He was very happy with it. When he built a NIS 26, about 12-15 years ago, we got the entire load of ply needed at Goodfellows in Burnside. IIRC it was mostly 35-40 sheets of mostly 12-13 mm, with a few 6mm and some 18mm.
    Glad to see you back at it!

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Beg Meil in Nova Scotia

    I can vouch for Noah's, that is where I got my ply when I built my Penobscot 14. They also have fibreglass in different weights, epoxy, fillers, lumber, books, hardware etc. They are definitely geared toward boatbuilding. In my case it was okoume 6 mm ply that I used throughout, it was all top notch. Also in my case I went in person and picked up. A friend who was also building came along with his utility trailer.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Beg Meil in Nova Scotia

    Thanks for the replies and it is in fact East Coast Specialty Hardwoods that I am getting ym wood from for the most part and Halifax Hardwoods as well. As far as the ply I never thought to laminate them which would work or I am thinking I may just go with the Meranti. I am wondering though because I am worried about the weight with the addition of the Meranti and the wooden deck if I should use the 15mm (which is often not stocked) or knock it down to the 13mm??

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Beg Meil in Nova Scotia

    Quote Originally Posted by billsan View Post
    I am wondering though because I am worried about the weight with the addition of the Meranti and the wooden deck if I should use the 15mm (which is often not stocked) or knock it down to the 13mm??
    Insert normal statement about following the designer's specs here. I think Vivier has a habit of doing a meticulous job of drafting so you'd be best of trusting their instincts. I'd go the 15mm for bulkheads if that's what's specced out in the plans - but that's just me. I know how little I know.

    I'd hazard a guess that a doug-fir deck on this beasty won't add too much weight in the long run - it's not a huge boat - and you'll like the extra stiffness the thicker ply gives you. Remember that rule of stiffness increases with the cube of t he thickness - etc.

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    Default Re: Beg Meil in Nova Scotia

    The plans call for the decking plywood to be cut from 9 mm Okume marine ply, and others here may have input on the feasibility of using meranti in its place (I can't speak to that.) I will say that Francois Vivier has always been very responsive to my email questions. In fact, I had asked him about adding a laid deck of teak or douglas fir, and he very quickly responded with "You may add a laid deck, about 6 mm thick, made of teak or Douglas fir (lighter). Of course, this induces some additional weight, but it is acceptable."I would suggest running by him any proposed changes to materials, etc., as I am sure he will be happy to advise you on the feasibility, ramifications, etc. of those changes. For the few questions I've had, he has been very helpful and responsive. Hope that helps.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Beg Meil in Nova Scotia

    Bill,
    Is there any real lumber for structure in the design? I've got a line on some Black Locust and Osage Orange and if you wanted to, we could get what we needed. Not sure if the keel or other parts call for something like Oak or another hardwood for structural timbers or not. If they do and you're interested, let me know. I'd be happy to share a few pieces of my "haul" with you if you need some of it.
    Daniel
    If one advances confidently in the direction of his dreams, and endeavors to live the life which he has imagined, he will meet with a success unexpected in common hours.
    -Henry David Thoreau-

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    Default Re: Beg Meil in Nova Scotia

    Jason, I did email FV to see what his thoughts were as well I was just curious what the forum thought more so on the use of Meranti. I will see what he says and go from there as he has been great to deal with as you have mentioned. Thanks again for the advice and your posts have kept me going when I thought I may be out to lunch with this project There is no doubt that I may have a few questions for you in the future once I really get going.

    Dan, there is a lot of "real wood", of which I plan to use Mahogany for the majority and douglas fir for the decks. There are other woods that I will need to get but nothing in significant amounts. We can chat about your plans and see if there is anything we could get together.

    B

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Beg Meil in Nova Scotia

    I got a response from Francois which was that it was actually fine to use the 12mm plywood and to just watch out for nailing into it when building the hull. I now plan to go ahead with that using Meranti plywood which I can get from a local source (east coast specialty). Also as you said Jason the added weight of the DF deck is not a factor and I have found a source locally that has some 100yr 2inch boards that used to be old booms at the dockyard and is looking to get rid of them. They are also very long so I am thinking that I will buy up as much of that as possible for the spars, deck and other places onboard that it can be used. The trick of course is getting boards that long home...

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Beg Meil in Nova Scotia

    Well its been a long time since I started this thread and no I have not given up by any means. Since the last post i have redone the back yard (47 tandom loads), insulated most of the shop and have been at sea well over 100 days. I finally am home for a month straight and am getting right back at it. I have half of the bulkheads cut out and plan to do the rest hopefully by the end of next week (ill post pics then), the rudder is basically cut out and I have a few more odds and ends done. I have picked away at it and although it is not maybe the most orthodoxed approach I feel that getting something done is better than nothing at all.

    Right now I am working on the transom which I plan to make out of mahogany vice 2 layers of plywood. What I would like to do is use as few boards as possible to keep the grain pattern as natural as possible vice many grain patterns that look like a lot of smaller boards. My question to you if someone has the time is can I use 4 x 10 inch wide boards or should I cut them and alternate them so that they do not cup? I think I know the answer but I though I would ask and see or see if someone had a method that I could keep the boards intact at 10ish inches.

    Thanks in advance and I hope to have enough progress made soon to post some pics.

    B

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Beg Meil in Nova Scotia

    Great to hear that you are still at it. Beg Meil is a beaut!

    Kevin
    There are two kinds of boaters: those who have run aground, and those who lie about it.

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    Default Re: Beg Meil in Nova Scotia

    The last boat I built I bought the real wood from East Coast Specialty and bought the Okume plywood and epoxy from IMP Marine supply in Burnside. That was a few years ago so I'm not sure if they still stock marine ply or not. Good luck with your project. I look forward to seeing pictures.
    Stay calm, be brave....wait for the signs. Possibly precariously prevaricating.
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    Default Re: Beg Meil in Nova Scotia

    I've certainly seen a lot of transoms made from wide planks, and decent mahogany shouldn't cup too much, so I'd be tempted to go for it. Perhaps edge-glue them together with G-Flex epoxy or something similar?
    "The enemies of reason have a certain blind look."
    Doctor Jacquin to Lieutenant D'Hubert, in Ridley Scott's first major film _The Duellists_.

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    Default Re: Beg Meil in Nova Scotia

    Go for it with the mahogany, it's fairly stable as long as you don't shock your transom blank with huge changes in temperature or humidity. Edge gluing like Thorne says is fine, if you can spline the edges or rout them it will help in alignment during the glue-up:



    Good luck with your build!

    Mike

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    Default Re: Beg Meil in Nova Scotia

    Keep working a little at a time whenever you can. It's not gonna build itself!

    I'll be following along, for sure, as I've just started (barely) building an Ilur, which you probably know is the same hull.
    I like Mike J's photo above for joining the boards. He did alternate the grain I think. Mike, is there a router bit or bits that make that joint?

    Good luck Billsan!

    Mike
    "near it, a small whale-boat, painted red and blue, the delight of the king's old age."

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Beg Meil in Nova Scotia

    As much as I would love to say those are hand tooled edges , alas I used a Freud set for making Shaker style cabinet doors since I had it on hand. Probably not cost effective unless you have a router table and make cabinet doors professionally, amongst other sketchy life choices.

    But yes, I did alternate the grain.

    Mike

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Beg Meil in Nova Scotia

    Thanks all,

    I am going to go for it and put a plywood backer on the back to ensure stability. It will be a bit heavier but it shouldn't be too much and it will put my mind at ease. I have the boards cut out now and after a bit of a tune up on my 30yr old 8" jointer I should have them glued this weekend (with splines) after which I will post some pics. After that next week I will finish off cutting out all of the bulkheads and decide where to go to from there. I was hoping to limit the amount of paint on the inside keeping it mostly bright but seeing what the Okume ply looks like here (very bland) I am rethinking my approach. I could use Meranti which is a bit better but the extra weight may factor in. There is no sapele here so I am looking for any thoughts that people may have.

    Mike glad to see that you are in the same "boat" as me just starting off and we will have to push each other along to get these boats in the water

    Bill

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    Default Re: Beg Meil in Nova Scotia


  21. #21
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    Default Re: Beg Meil in Nova Scotia

    Well I finally made a little progress in the shop while at the same time figured out how to post pictures to the site (embarrassing simple once figured out). I managed to rough cut out all of the bulkheads now and plan to finish them off this week. I also milled the mahogany for the transom which are now ready for some splines and a glue up ( I am going to use G Flex based on some good advice) . As you can see I got some work to do on the shop as well. I just put up the insulation in the shop and today I cut down one of my benches to turn it into a outfeed table which also makes more room. I am hoping to get all of this sorted out by next week so I can look at getting the strongback at least cut out and ready to go.

    Its a balance between boat and shop right now but progress is progress and if the winter is anything like what we had last year the shop work will be needed!

    I promise more interesting photos in the next batch

    B



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    Default Re: Beg Meil in Nova Scotia

    Looking good....., thanks for the pics

  23. #23
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    Default Re: Beg Meil in Nova Scotia

    Nice build, I will follow your progress.
    Regards, Christiaan

  24. #24
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    Default Re: Beg Meil in Nova Scotia

    I have made quite a bit of progress over my leave period (finally) having cut all the bulkheads, glued up the transom and almost have the strong back built, with the help of my 4yr old of course. I have a few pics that I will post after I get back from camping.

    I won't be doing the build in traditional order and plan to move on to some of the spars and oars as they are something I can pick at as I come in and out from sea. I was planning to use douglas fir however black spruce is a possibility as well although I am not comfortable determining black spruce from the rest at the lumber yard. I have looked on the net but I am wondering if anyone here has any opinions on the matter and a way to best determine black spruce?

    Thanks!

  25. #25
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    Default Re: Beg Meil in Nova Scotia

    East coast specialty Hardwoods in Burnside and Halifax Specialty Hardwoods both have some of what you're looking for. A bit pricey but you don't really need much in a boat the size your'e building.
    Keep at it Bill. You're moving faster than my Catspaw is moving at. At least my transom is glued up.

    http://eastcoastspecialtyhardwoods.com/
    http://www.halifaxspecialtyhardwoods.com/
    If one advances confidently in the direction of his dreams, and endeavors to live the life which he has imagined, he will meet with a success unexpected in common hours.
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  26. #26
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    Default Re: Beg Meil in Nova Scotia

    Dan,

    If I buy from one of those two I will go with DF I think so that it matches the deck. I know some people around here use black spruce but the more I think about it the less I want to bother with sorting, drying and all the issues that go with it, another good reason to go to HSH and gets some DF.

    How is the Catspaw coming?

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    Default Re: Beg Meil in Nova Scotia

    Well I spent an hour trying to upload the photos properly as it has been a while and as far as I have gotten so far are the 2 links, its progress at least. Regarding the boat I cut out all the bulkheads,parts for the rudder and glued up the transom. Of course there would be a few issues to complicate things and as it were there are limited thicknesses of marine plywood here in Halifax. I mentioned this to FV and went with a thinner ply for the bulkheads however which he said is fine however when I glue up the stem and transom knee they will be bit thin so I am in the process of adding another piece of 9mm to bulk them up as it seems like an appropriate thing to do and will ensure their strength.

    Once I do this I am going to get the epoxy out and precoat the bulkheads and glue up the what I have ready. I am also ready to build the strongback and with the space I have I am contemplating the building it on castors so I can move it around a bit after marking the exact spots on the floor. I am curious if what people think about doing this? I am abit worried about racking and shifting as I move it around and thus affecting the quality of the boat.

    I will post once I glue things up and get some epoxy on the bulkheads.

    B

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    Default Re: Beg Meil in Nova Scotia


  30. #30
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    Default Re: Beg Meil in Nova Scotia

    Quote Originally Posted by billsan View Post
    ......I am also ready to build the strongback and with the space I have I am contemplating the building it on castors so I can move it around a bit after marking the exact spots on the floor. I am curious if what people think about doing this? I am abit worried about racking and shifting as I move it around and thus affecting the quality of the boat.
    B
    Bill, I used wheels and everything worked out great. Use plenty of cross-bracing, get good casters with excellent locking mechanisms, and mark the floor where the frame is level and build there (a great tip from Andrew Patrol).....then wheel it where needed when needed.

    Jason

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    Default Re: Beg Meil in Nova Scotia

    .....
    Quote Originally Posted by JasonD View Post
    Wheels!



    Although many seems to recommend against wheels, enough seem to have built fine boats of similar size on mobile bldg frames. and it sure is convenient.

  32. #32
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    Default Re: Beg Meil in Nova Scotia

    Quote Originally Posted by billsan View Post
    Once I do this I am going to get the epoxy out and precoat the bulkheads and glue up the what I have ready.
    Here is nother thing I did that falls into the category of "I feel good about it, because stronger is better, but I am not sure it was necessary." When pre-coating the bulkheads I did not coat the edges and a border around the edge about 5-10 mm. I did this via some painter's tape. Also, I did not pre-coat planks. Why not? I read on West System's website about the difference between a primary bond and a secondary bond, with the former being chemical and significantly stronger, the latter being a mechanical one dependent on correct surface prep. I figured the bond between plank and bulkhead would be better if it were a primary bond. I envisioned this to mean that gluing up wood to wood (using the 2-steps, wetting out surfaces with clear epoxy then immediately gluing up with thickened epoxy) creates a bond between the two wood surfaces.....adhering a plank coated in cured epoxy to a bulkhead coated in cured epoxy is mechanically bonding (reliant on the right roughness of surface) two very thin layers of plastic film.

    It would be interesting to know what other folks have done in this regard. To be fair, I did not call the technical hotline and discuss this at length, thus the disclaimer that it's in the category of "I feel good about it, but I am not sure it was necessary."

    Excerpts from their website:

    http://www.westsystem.com/ss/bonding-gluing-clamping/

    PRIMARY/SECONDARY BONDING

    Primary bonding relies on the chemical linking of adhesive layers such as the wet lay-up of fiberglass laminate in a mold. All the layers of adhesive cure together in a single fused layer. Epoxy applied over partially cured epoxy will chemically link with it and is a primary bond. The ability to chemically link diminishes as the epoxy cures and it becomes a secondary bond.

    Secondary bonding relies on the mechanical linking of an adhesive to a material or cured epoxy surface. The adhesive must "key" into pores or scratches in the surface-a microscopic version of a dovetail joint. Proper surface preparation provides a texture that will help lock the cured epoxy to the surface.

    http://www.westsystem.com/ss/adhesive-bonded-structures/
    We rarely see failures due to the strength of the epoxy. Problems are more likely to occur when the epoxy is allowed to cure too much before the parts are assembled, or the epoxy isn’t allowed cure sufficiently before a load is applied. Our customers are successful when they select a WEST SYSTEM epoxy designated as a structural adhesive with the cure profile that best matches their process and working conditions. In addition, best practices include preparing the surface properly and achieving the appropriate bond line thickness.
    When designing, building or repairing a structure that relies on bonded components for strength, please call our Technical Advisors at 866-937-8797. We would be glad to discuss your project with you.
    Last edited by JasonD; 08-30-2016 at 10:23 PM.

  33. #33
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    Default Re: Beg Meil in Nova Scotia

    Quote Originally Posted by billsan View Post
    Once I do this I am going to get the epoxy out and precoat the bulkheads and glue up the what I have ready. I am also ready to build the strongback and with the space I have I am contemplating the building it on castors so I can move it around a bit after marking the exact spots on the floor. I am curious if what people think about doing this? I am abit worried about racking and shifting as I move it around and thus affecting the quality of the boat.

    I will post once I glue things up and get some epoxy on the bulkheads.

    B
    Hi Bill,

    We seem to be at about the same spot in our Beg-Meil builds. I have completed the strongback and put it on casters as you describe. I also included 4 leveling feet that I will use to level and true the frame for critical tasks (like aligning bulkheads and planking). I will mark the floor where the leveling feet touch so I can return everything to a "known" position after moving it around the shop.

    My bulkheads are ready for epoxy resin, too. I plan to start application of epoxy this weekend. Two coats on all the bulkheads. I, too, read the West documentation regarding primary and secondary bonds. I plan to skip the edges of the bulkheads, but am not so motivated as to actually mask those areas. I spoke with the MAS Epoxy people on this topic their position was that a properly prepared (coated) surface would yield a good primary bond.

    Good luck,

  34. #34
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    Default Re: Beg Meil in Nova Scotia





    Thanks for the replies fellas it certainly is reassuring to know that I am on seemingly the right track. I am camping this weekend and at sea with work but when I get back I hope to get the epoxy on. I have most of the edges taped off so I am going to stick with it, I am also not the neatest person so I will play to my weaknesses.

    The Meranti plywood has caused me issues, as you can see it has significant tear out that I am going to have to sort out. I am thinking that I will do so with the epoxy coating however I am wondering if anyone here would suggest the best method to do so? I am not so worried about the edges as they will be under fillets on one side at least but the other side that is visible with definitely need to be fixed.

    thanks again for looking!

  35. #35
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    Default Re: Beg Meil in Nova Scotia







    I managed to get a few hours in the shop this week and made some progress. I have the strongback basically completed now with just the leveling and a few pieces of reinforcement remaining. I have also cleaned up to some degree the stem and the transom post which I hope to epoxy and mount along with the other bulkheads when I get back from sea.

    I followed the other Dean and Jason's advice and put wheels and levelers on the frame so that I can move it around when needed.

    Now time for a good clean up before I head off to sea!!

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