Results 1 to 27 of 27

Thread: First traditional build

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Augusta, Georgia
    Posts
    21

    Default First traditional build

    I'm new around here. I've been lurking for a while. I am looking for some help in choosing a design for my first boat project. I have some limited woodworking experience but I've never built a boat.

    Here is a list of what I'm looking for.

    Large enough for 2 adults and 1 child.

    Preferably round bottom. (I really like the look)

    Sail, Power or Row? I'm really open to all three but I'm leaning towards a displacement power boat that I can power with a small (under 15 hp) outboard. I've never actually been in a sailboat but I'm open to it. I like the catspaw dinghy but I'm worried it's a little small and maybe a little too complicated.

    It will be mainly used on an inland lake for general recreational family fun.

    I don't want it to be overly complicated for a first build but I do want to use real lumber and not plywood or stitch and glue construction. So clinker or carvel is what I'm thinking.

    I'm in the middle of nowhere Georgia. The closest real lumberyard to me is 2 hours away and I only own two cars. I can fit 8 foot boards inside my hatch and it also has racks but this could be a problem. Uhaul is an option for getting lumber home I suppose.

    I currently own a jobsite table saw, circular saw, small 9" band saw a smoothing plane a fixed base router and some chisels. I'm looking to get a lunchbox planer next I have my eye on the Rigid 4331. I also want to get a full size 14" bandsaw to be able to resaw more than 3.5 inches. I would like to be able to do things without buying anything else too crazy.

    Thanks for any ideas! I know this topic has been covered a lot but I couldn't find anything specific to my situation exactly.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Cummington
    Posts
    5,378

    Default Re: First traditional build

    Should be over there playing golf not asking about boat building. Sorry. On to the questions. For any boat of that size you should look for a sawmill, maybe portable bandmill operator, which there should be not that far away. If you find one with long leaf pine you will be doing good for frame and planking. Otherwise, white oak for structure, and cypress or cedar for planking would be what I'd look for. The problem you might have with sawmills might be lengths they cut as you will want plank stock longer than 12' and preferably live edge with any sweep in the log left in the cut boards. You like lapstrake or carvel round bottom, but they will all have complication similar to the catspaw. I'd recommend you find the Building Traditional Small Craft books be John Gardner and study the different boats with their building instructions to see what you like and feel comfortable with. If you develop your procedure clearly for your build you will be able to build the boat you want.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    175

    Default Re: First traditional build

    Hello Lorax. I just moved from the middle of nowhere Georgia a year or so ago, well, Valdosta anyway. I'll be the first to reply like I didn't actually read your post....I did though. I might look at a dory type hull. It has a flat bottom but in the water you can't see the bottom anyway. Where I'm going with this is that the construction of dories is fairly straightforward and used to be done with lumber, not plywood. As such the designs of the various dories out there ended up well suited to building with lumber, on a budget, and without being a drop-dead expert craftsman. There are more "refined" dories out there like the Alphas which were more for recreational sailing and there are designs which more closely resemble the workboat type like a banks dory...very robust, often with lap strake (clinker) construction. There are a number of designs out there for row, power, and sail. Some power dories have transom mounted outboards (like the semi dories) and some have outboards in wells. Dories in a general evolved to carry quite a large load (2 adults. 1kiddo, and picnic or camping gear would pale in comparison to a load of fish) and certainly traditional designs to this effect exist. Some builders and designers have drawn dories more recently (ie last several decades) more suited for recreational use which makes them more friendly when it comes to handling and stability without 800 lbs of fish in them. Some power dories plane, some dories, depending on load and hp move more like displacement boats. They are flat bottom though so may not be to your liking but you might take a look.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    SF Bay Area- Richmond
    Posts
    15,386

    Default Re: First traditional build

    How do you plan on using the boat? I assume you'll store it at home in a garage or under good cover, then tow with a car to a lake or river? Any way you slice it, with traditional construction you'll have a bit of leakage -- which you can reduce by pre-soaking the boat before the tow. I trailer-sail a fir-over-oak dory skiff, and know whereof I speak...at least on this topic. ;-)

    I'd be tempted to showcase the trad materials by building a trad design. With ply boats being the norm, it is nice to make a showpiece of your trad build -- and everyone will ask, anyway.







    Somewhere in the archives here are some great posts about building a flat-bottom skiff by Atkin call "Maude and Emeline" - http://www.atkinboatplans.com/Oar/MaudeAndEmeline.html The boat came out very nicely judging from the photos and posts, but I haven't seen it in person...yet.
    http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...t=#post1903713
    Last edited by Thorne; 04-07-2015 at 07:29 PM.
    "The enemies of reason have a certain blind look."
    Doctor Jacquin to Lieutenant D'Hubert, in Ridley Scott's first major film _The Duellists_.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Augusta, Georgia
    Posts
    21

    Default Re: First traditional build

    Thanks all for the replies!

    Thad: I'm doing my best to stay away from all the golf traffic! I found a sawmill about 2 hours from here that says they have lots of SYP for $0.50 a board foot and can do custom milling as well. I'm not sure what type of SYP they are talking about until I call them. Does it HAVE to be long leaf pine? It seems from my research most of the pine around here is loblolly and mostly sapwood which would rot faster. I'm not trying to build something that will last 100 years but I also don't want it to rot out in 3 years. Also why do I want a live edge on my boards?

    Windwalker you may have a point with the flat bottom piece. I'm not dead set on it. I just really like it. I also like double enders. Practicality will probably win out in the end.

    Thorne I really like Maud and Emeline it looks to be about the perfect size for my intended use. I just want room for myself my wife and my 2.5 year old son to have room to be comfortable for a day cruising around an inland lake and doing some fishing. I'm not concerned with speed a displacement hull is fine. I'm more concerned with ride comfort. I also want to be able to power it with a small gas sipping outboard.

    I definitely see the point in it being trailered and taking up water. I'm hoping if I hose it down liberally it won't end up being too much of a problem. I could go for a false bottom of sorts or maybe a double cross planked bottom like the Asa Thompson skiff and hope for the best. I wish slips weren't so expensive I'd just leave it at the lake and be done with the trailering business.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Cummington
    Posts
    5,378

    Default Re: First traditional build

    There's a Pete Culler quote "No boat was ever built with wood you don't have" -- something like that. Quality will be the question, clear or only solid knots or a few small black knots that you can drill out and plug. These resinous pines should be fine, whatever anyone says, as long as the heartwood is wide enough to avoid sapwood. There are or should be sources for cedar and cypress in NC and FLA if not in Georgia or SC. Stay away from kiln dried.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Shubenacadie NS
    Posts
    4,225

    Default Re: First traditional build

    You said you were afraid the Catspaw would be out of your league and too small. It will comfortably carry 2 adults and a child. 4 adults are shown in photos of Joel White's prototype in the how to build book. The boat is traditional construction and not too complicated if you understand trad construction and since you want to build trad and not ply S&G etc, I presume you know at least something about trad style like carvel or clinker. Catspaw can be built either carvel or clinker (lapstrake). Don't write her off so quickly. Though if after careful asessment, she doesn't meet your needs, move on. You want to spend your time using the boat, not building a second one because the first didn't meet your needs. Happy building.
    If one advances confidently in the direction of his dreams, and endeavors to live the life which he has imagined, he will meet with a success unexpected in common hours.
    -Henry David Thoreau-

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Augusta, Georgia
    Posts
    21

    Default Re: First traditional build

    Valid point Sailor I maybe shouldn't write off the catspaw so quickly. There are too many designs and only time, space and money for one at the moment!

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Augusta, Georgia
    Posts
    21

    Default Re: First traditional build

    Do you think I would benefit much from maybe building a small round bottom canoe first? Like a wee rob. Just to get a feel for the round bottom aspect and the lofting on a less expensive project.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Cummington
    Posts
    5,378

    Default Re: First traditional build

    Not necessarily. Smaller isn't necessarily easier. How carefully you loft, set up and spile make all the difference. The number of parts is not that different. Something like a trolling motor or 2hp outboard would probably work on the Catspaw though the transom would need to be reinforced, the boat is not designed for power (Herreshoff did build some inboard launches to that model, in a bit larger sizes I believe). Traditional dories with tombstone transom don't take to outboard power too well except if rail mounted. Dory skiffs came in to handle outboard power with broader transoms.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jan 2000
    Location
    Cushing, Maine
    Posts
    3,334

    Default Re: First traditional build

    Catspaw dinghies and the like were set up as cedar on oak, fairly narrow planking stock. You are in pine country and I'd take advantage of it, having a sawmill down the road that you can talk to. That said, flatbottom skiffs and dories ( semidories for outboards) and the like used wider pine planks. Keeping a bottom moist is not a big problem if you can stow the boat out of the sun. I have a trashcan full of boat rags, old cotton blankets, towels and gunny sacks.
    Ben Fuller
    Ran Tan, Liten Kuhling, Tipsy, Tippy, Josef W., Merry Mouth, Imp, Macavity, Look Far, Flash and a quiver of other 'yaks.
    "Bound fast is boatless man."

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    SF Bay Area- Richmond
    Posts
    15,386

    Default Re: First traditional build

    First you really need to decide on what will power the boat -- outboard, oars or sail.

    Atkin has plans for round-hulled power boats - here's just one: http://www.atkinboatplans.com/Utilities/Newt.html

    If you really want to build a sailboat with carvel hull, pick up a copy of
    Building Heidi, A 12 Foot Skiff for Oar and Sail: Traditional Boatbuilding for Oar and Sail



    "The enemies of reason have a certain blind look."
    Doctor Jacquin to Lieutenant D'Hubert, in Ridley Scott's first major film _The Duellists_.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Switzerland, near Bern
    Posts
    65

    Default Re: First traditional build

    Whats about the Lumber Yard Skiff from the Woodenboat Store? Plan and a how to due describtion you will find in the first two volumes Getting started in Boats
    -> http://www.woodenboatstore.com/category/getting_started

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Duncan, Vancouver Island
    Posts
    28,059

    Default Re: First traditional build

    Paul Gartside has a few you may want to take a look at: http://store.gartsideboats.com/collections/all

    ie




  15. #15
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Duncan, Vancouver Island
    Posts
    28,059

    Default Re: First traditional build

    Prams with transoms at both ends might also be worth considering. No tight bends and no stem.


  16. #16
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Cape Town, South Africa
    Posts
    105

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Augusta, Georgia
    Posts
    21

    Default Re: First traditional build

    Good idea on the Pram I can keep the round bottom but it makes it easier. I LOVE the 13' launch in the Gartside catalog but I'm pretty sure it's way out of my ability/skill level and finding a suitable inboard would probably be difficult.
    http://store.gartsideboats.com/colle...nch-loopen-178

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Augusta, Georgia
    Posts
    21

    Default Re: First traditional build

    Just an update to this old thread, I've spent the past couple years working on non boat wood projects to get some experience. I'm also leaning towards building a strip/epoxy pram. The practicality of a trailered traditional boat just doesn't sit well with me. I'm looking at the Nick Schade Coot. A little squishy for 3 but I doubt I'll have 3 very often. Problem just my son and me mostly and it will fit in the back of my F150.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    SF Bay Area- Richmond
    Posts
    15,386

    Default Re: First traditional build

    I'm glad that you changed your mind about the trad build, but suspect you've gotten off on the wrong foot by limiting it to fit in the back of your truck.

    Unless your sons are babies (unlikely after nearly 3 years from the first post), fitting everyone in the Coot will be a challenge -- as will dealing with powerboat wakes or windy swells. And fitting two will also be a challenge, but possibly workable if you install two sets of oarlock bases and row from as far forward as possible.



    If you're willing to trailer or use a rack on your Ford truck, something larger will work much better -- and row faster with less work due to a longer waterline. I have a Cosine Wherry that can be cartopped, carries two or three easily, and can keep up with the sliding-seat rowers on many waterways. But unless you are very strong and have great health insurance, you'll probably prefer to trailer it.

    "The enemies of reason have a certain blind look."
    Doctor Jacquin to Lieutenant D'Hubert, in Ridley Scott's first major film _The Duellists_.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Augusta, Georgia
    Posts
    21

    Arrow Re: First traditional build

    Thorne,

    All valid points. I probably should suck it up and go with a trailer. I was just really trying to avoid it because I don't really have a good place to store it unless I leave it in my garage. My HOA won't let me keep it in sight and my garage is my wood shop, storage is expensive and inconvenient. I guess I'll mull it over for another 3 years ha!

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    se pa (Bristol PA)
    Posts
    2,855

    Default Re: First traditional build

    Bu,t with the gate down you should be able to get 12, even 14 ft in the bed with a bit of care, you should be able to manage the roads . We loaded a 11 ft moth in my my7ft bed Ranger.

    Denise, Bristol PA, Oday30, Anchor Yacht Club, On tidal Delaware River. my current project; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...0-Ducker-Resto

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    SF Bay Area- Richmond
    Posts
    15,386

    Default Re: First traditional build

    It will fit in the back if you're careful, or can be cartopped. Here's mine on my old TDI wagon -

    "The enemies of reason have a certain blind look."
    Doctor Jacquin to Lieutenant D'Hubert, in Ridley Scott's first major film _The Duellists_.

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    NC
    Posts
    72

    Default Re: First traditional build

    Hopefully germane to the original question, I'm curious what folks think about leakage rates for carvel vs. riveted lapstrake. Specifically in reference to Thorne's post (#4), do you feel that carvel lapstrake hulls, all else being equal, take up quicker and leak less than carvel? What do you recommend in terms of presoaking before a launch? Fine mist under a tarp, a few inches of water in the bilge, or just launch and retrieve later?

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Jan 2000
    Location
    Cushing, Maine
    Posts
    3,334

    Default Re: First traditional build

    Pre soaking for a small boat can be done with boat blankets, gunny sacks etc. Lay them in there, soak em down and walk away. For years my riveted ducker was tight without any work, but the gradual swelling and drying against the unyielding rivets has led to some leakage. Now it needs some attention before launching. If frequently used it is a once a season deal. If it was hot and dry and a long interstate grade tow, I'd keep the wet blankets in the boat.

    Those boat blankets ( old summer blankets, quilted mattress pads etc.) are all that is needed to soak up my crossplanked non caulked skiff where I can see light through the seams when it is dry. I do that before bottom paint so I don't get paint into the open seams.
    Ben Fuller
    Ran Tan, Liten Kuhling, Tipsy, Tippy, Josef W., Merry Mouth, Imp, Macavity, Look Far, Flash and a quiver of other 'yaks.
    "Bound fast is boatless man."

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Augusta, Georgia
    Posts
    21

    Default Re: First traditional build

    Well another year has elapsed since my last post. I've finally starting buying materials. I decided to build a JEM watercraft design. The stitch and glue version of a Mcinnis Bateau. My 4 sheets of Meranti should be here on Monday. I might start a build thread once I have something to post.

  26. #26
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Palo Alto, California
    Posts
    130

    Default Re: First traditional build

    Two years ago I built the JEM Watercraft Sasquatch 12-33 canoe for my daughter. It went together quickly and turned out beautifully.

  27. #27
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Augusta, Georgia
    Posts
    21

    Default Re: First traditional build

    Thanks Mike! Good to hear from someone that has used JEM plans, I haven't seen too much on them other than on the JEM website. They are extremely well written and basically include a how to booklet on stitch and glue.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •