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Thread: Wooden Boat Insurance in Florida?

  1. #1
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    I'm looking at what looks like a great deal on a 43 foot wooden ketch that my marina is taking posession of. However I'm having no luck finding anybody willing to write insurance on a wooden boat in Florida. Any ideas?

    The boat was built by Nelson A Whitesell in 1976 and is strip planked with juniper. It needs to be painted inside and out but appears to have no rot anywhere. Its still sitting in the water so I haven't seen the bottom yet except for what I could see snorkeling. The diesel is a Volvo Penta MD3B that needs work (probably replacement of all 3 cylinders due to corrosion) so I'm not sure how it will be taken to the haul out for survey. Anybody know a good wood boat surveyor in east central Florida?

    Thanks,

    Ben

  2. #2
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    I'm looking at what looks like a great deal on a 43 foot wooden ketch that my marina is taking posession of. However I'm having no luck finding anybody willing to write insurance on a wooden boat in Florida. Any ideas?

    The boat was built by Nelson A Whitesell in 1976 and is strip planked with juniper. It needs to be painted inside and out but appears to have no rot anywhere. Its still sitting in the water so I haven't seen the bottom yet except for what I could see snorkeling. The diesel is a Volvo Penta MD3B that needs work (probably replacement of all 3 cylinders due to corrosion) so I'm not sure how it will be taken to the haul out for survey. Anybody know a good wood boat surveyor in east central Florida?

    Thanks,

    Ben

  3. #3
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    Titusville, Fl
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    I'm looking at what looks like a great deal on a 43 foot wooden ketch that my marina is taking posession of. However I'm having no luck finding anybody willing to write insurance on a wooden boat in Florida. Any ideas?

    The boat was built by Nelson A Whitesell in 1976 and is strip planked with juniper. It needs to be painted inside and out but appears to have no rot anywhere. Its still sitting in the water so I haven't seen the bottom yet except for what I could see snorkeling. The diesel is a Volvo Penta MD3B that needs work (probably replacement of all 3 cylinders due to corrosion) so I'm not sure how it will be taken to the haul out for survey. Anybody know a good wood boat surveyor in east central Florida?

    Thanks,

    Ben

  4. #4
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    MAKE SURE THE MARINA WILL GIVE YOU A CONTRACT FOR DOCKAGE, BEFORE YOU GO ANY FURTHER. This has become a real problem in many areas of the state. There is a member in Melbourne here, Matt Middleton, on the forum. I have not seen him lately, but he may be able to give you some insite into a surveyor. Also, check up in New Smyrna Beach at the commercial docks. There use to be a lot of wooden charter boats there. Also, the marina across the northern side of the inlet there, has a bunch of wooden boats along with a big wooden hull headboat, that runs out of there. There use to be a facility in Daytona called Daytona Beach Boatworks, that built and repaired wooden boats.

    Lighthouse Yacht Sales is up there, or used to be, and dealt with wooden sportfish boats. In Eau Gallie, there use to be a facility that had boatsheds with some wooden boats in it, but they were a large Hatteras dealer. It was across from the rowing school on the south side of the cut of the creek. I think Ballard park was on the point. If they are still there, check with them.

    [ 08-16-2003, 09:51 PM: Message edited by: Oyster ]

  5. #5
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    MAKE SURE THE MARINA WILL GIVE YOU A CONTRACT FOR DOCKAGE, BEFORE YOU GO ANY FURTHER. This has become a real problem in many areas of the state. There is a member in Melbourne here, Matt Middleton, on the forum. I have not seen him lately, but he may be able to give you some insite into a surveyor. Also, check up in New Smyrna Beach at the commercial docks. There use to be a lot of wooden charter boats there. Also, the marina across the northern side of the inlet there, has a bunch of wooden boats along with a big wooden hull headboat, that runs out of there. There use to be a facility in Daytona called Daytona Beach Boatworks, that built and repaired wooden boats.

    Lighthouse Yacht Sales is up there, or used to be, and dealt with wooden sportfish boats. In Eau Gallie, there use to be a facility that had boatsheds with some wooden boats in it, but they were a large Hatteras dealer. It was across from the rowing school on the south side of the cut of the creek. I think Ballard park was on the point. If they are still there, check with them.

    [ 08-16-2003, 09:51 PM: Message edited by: Oyster ]

  6. #6
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    MAKE SURE THE MARINA WILL GIVE YOU A CONTRACT FOR DOCKAGE, BEFORE YOU GO ANY FURTHER. This has become a real problem in many areas of the state. There is a member in Melbourne here, Matt Middleton, on the forum. I have not seen him lately, but he may be able to give you some insite into a surveyor. Also, check up in New Smyrna Beach at the commercial docks. There use to be a lot of wooden charter boats there. Also, the marina across the northern side of the inlet there, has a bunch of wooden boats along with a big wooden hull headboat, that runs out of there. There use to be a facility in Daytona called Daytona Beach Boatworks, that built and repaired wooden boats.

    Lighthouse Yacht Sales is up there, or used to be, and dealt with wooden sportfish boats. In Eau Gallie, there use to be a facility that had boatsheds with some wooden boats in it, but they were a large Hatteras dealer. It was across from the rowing school on the south side of the cut of the creek. I think Ballard park was on the point. If they are still there, check with them.

    [ 08-16-2003, 09:51 PM: Message edited by: Oyster ]

  7. #7
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    Hi there, just saw this post.

    I'm an hour or so south of you (Melbourne), and my insurance is through Florida Hiway & Marine Insurance. (My policy is actually with Progressive Insurance, but through FL H&M.) They're nice folks, though, and the guy you want to talk to is named Russ Jamison. They may can help you out.

    As for a surveyor, we used Peter Wells. He used to work for Hinckley, and has a good reputation around here. The previous owner used a fellow named Chapman, also with a good reputation here.

    We didn't have any trouble finding a marina that would take us. I didn't find that any of them would refuse wooden boats based on their construction. A bigger problem (for the average boater) is the developers who are buying the marinas in order to create waterfront condos. Two marinas in Cocoa have recently been sold for that purpose, so dockage and yard prices have been increasing.

    Our biggest hurdle was finding someone to haul us. We were looking for a yard that would haul wood boats and allow us to do our own work. Nobody at the Cape will haul a wood boat, and most others don't allow you to do your own work. The one that met both requirements is on the Banana River between two low (42' or so) bridges, so we had to pull the mast down to get there.

    The yard up there by the municipal marina looks like they'll haul you and let you do your own work, but IIRC their price was 4 times what I eventually paid. It seems they have a monopoly on things there in Titusville.

    Incidentally, we almost docked our boat at the yacht club up there, as they had the best facilities and price for liveaboards.

    Anyhow, this is all from memory so I may have mis-remembered something or another, but I hope it helps in any case.

    Oh, and Oyster- the yard over in Eau Gallie is still there, but has changed ownership recently, possibly more than once. The railway and shed are still there, but I'm not sure what kind of work they'll do.

    If any of the above isn't clear or you have other questions, feel free to ask. Good luck!

    Matt Middleton

  8. #8
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    Hi there, just saw this post.

    I'm an hour or so south of you (Melbourne), and my insurance is through Florida Hiway & Marine Insurance. (My policy is actually with Progressive Insurance, but through FL H&M.) They're nice folks, though, and the guy you want to talk to is named Russ Jamison. They may can help you out.

    As for a surveyor, we used Peter Wells. He used to work for Hinckley, and has a good reputation around here. The previous owner used a fellow named Chapman, also with a good reputation here.

    We didn't have any trouble finding a marina that would take us. I didn't find that any of them would refuse wooden boats based on their construction. A bigger problem (for the average boater) is the developers who are buying the marinas in order to create waterfront condos. Two marinas in Cocoa have recently been sold for that purpose, so dockage and yard prices have been increasing.

    Our biggest hurdle was finding someone to haul us. We were looking for a yard that would haul wood boats and allow us to do our own work. Nobody at the Cape will haul a wood boat, and most others don't allow you to do your own work. The one that met both requirements is on the Banana River between two low (42' or so) bridges, so we had to pull the mast down to get there.

    The yard up there by the municipal marina looks like they'll haul you and let you do your own work, but IIRC their price was 4 times what I eventually paid. It seems they have a monopoly on things there in Titusville.

    Incidentally, we almost docked our boat at the yacht club up there, as they had the best facilities and price for liveaboards.

    Anyhow, this is all from memory so I may have mis-remembered something or another, but I hope it helps in any case.

    Oh, and Oyster- the yard over in Eau Gallie is still there, but has changed ownership recently, possibly more than once. The railway and shed are still there, but I'm not sure what kind of work they'll do.

    If any of the above isn't clear or you have other questions, feel free to ask. Good luck!

    Matt Middleton

  9. #9
    Join Date
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    Location
    Portland, OR, USA
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    Hi there, just saw this post.

    I'm an hour or so south of you (Melbourne), and my insurance is through Florida Hiway & Marine Insurance. (My policy is actually with Progressive Insurance, but through FL H&M.) They're nice folks, though, and the guy you want to talk to is named Russ Jamison. They may can help you out.

    As for a surveyor, we used Peter Wells. He used to work for Hinckley, and has a good reputation around here. The previous owner used a fellow named Chapman, also with a good reputation here.

    We didn't have any trouble finding a marina that would take us. I didn't find that any of them would refuse wooden boats based on their construction. A bigger problem (for the average boater) is the developers who are buying the marinas in order to create waterfront condos. Two marinas in Cocoa have recently been sold for that purpose, so dockage and yard prices have been increasing.

    Our biggest hurdle was finding someone to haul us. We were looking for a yard that would haul wood boats and allow us to do our own work. Nobody at the Cape will haul a wood boat, and most others don't allow you to do your own work. The one that met both requirements is on the Banana River between two low (42' or so) bridges, so we had to pull the mast down to get there.

    The yard up there by the municipal marina looks like they'll haul you and let you do your own work, but IIRC their price was 4 times what I eventually paid. It seems they have a monopoly on things there in Titusville.

    Incidentally, we almost docked our boat at the yacht club up there, as they had the best facilities and price for liveaboards.

    Anyhow, this is all from memory so I may have mis-remembered something or another, but I hope it helps in any case.

    Oh, and Oyster- the yard over in Eau Gallie is still there, but has changed ownership recently, possibly more than once. The railway and shed are still there, but I'm not sure what kind of work they'll do.

    If any of the above isn't clear or you have other questions, feel free to ask. Good luck!

    Matt Middleton

  10. #10
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    Thanks, Matt. I tried your insurance folks and they said they didn't have anything for wooden boats at this time. I've read elswhere on the board that Progressive was no longer covering wooden boats.Its driving me crazy that the one thing holding me up from getting this boat is insurance. I can't even seem to get a quote for liability only. I'm familiar with Banana River Marine ( I assume thats the place you got hauled) I believe the mast(s) would have to come down on this boat too to get through the bridges. This insurance thing along with the difficulty getting hauled really limits the practicality of a wooden boat in Florida, but the boat I'm looking at seems to be very sound and I hate to see it get go to ruin.

    If anybody else out there has any ideas please let me know!

    Ben

  11. #11
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    Thanks, Matt. I tried your insurance folks and they said they didn't have anything for wooden boats at this time. I've read elswhere on the board that Progressive was no longer covering wooden boats.Its driving me crazy that the one thing holding me up from getting this boat is insurance. I can't even seem to get a quote for liability only. I'm familiar with Banana River Marine ( I assume thats the place you got hauled) I believe the mast(s) would have to come down on this boat too to get through the bridges. This insurance thing along with the difficulty getting hauled really limits the practicality of a wooden boat in Florida, but the boat I'm looking at seems to be very sound and I hate to see it get go to ruin.

    If anybody else out there has any ideas please let me know!

    Ben

  12. #12
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    Titusville, Fl
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    Thanks, Matt. I tried your insurance folks and they said they didn't have anything for wooden boats at this time. I've read elswhere on the board that Progressive was no longer covering wooden boats.Its driving me crazy that the one thing holding me up from getting this boat is insurance. I can't even seem to get a quote for liability only. I'm familiar with Banana River Marine ( I assume thats the place you got hauled) I believe the mast(s) would have to come down on this boat too to get through the bridges. This insurance thing along with the difficulty getting hauled really limits the practicality of a wooden boat in Florida, but the boat I'm looking at seems to be very sound and I hate to see it get go to ruin.

    If anybody else out there has any ideas please let me know!

    Ben

  13. #13
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    Here is a list of wooden boat builders, both with many years experience in Florida, that may steer you towards some success with insurance. Hauling it maybe your big problem, though.

    Spencer-Rybovich in Palm Beach,
    Rybovich
    4200 North Dixie Highway West Palm Beach, FL 33407
    (561) 844-4331 (561) 844-8393-Fax

    Whiticar Boatworks
    3636 S.E. Old St. Lucie Blvd. Stuart, FL 34996
    (561) 287-2883 (561) 287-2922-Fax

    Huckins Yacht Corp. in Jacksonvile, N.C.
    904-389-1125
    Lowe David Boatyard Inc
    4550 SE Boatyard Dr, Stuart, FL
    Phone: (772) 287-0923

    American Custom Yachts, Inc.
    6800 SW Jack James Drive
    Stuart, Florida 34997
    Phone: 772-221-9100
    Fax:
    772-288-4993
    Email: comments@americancustomyachts.com


    ... Daytona Beach, FL 32127 Tel: 904-756-2180 1-800-360-7012 Fax: 904-360-7012 info@adventureyachtharbor.com, Daytona Marina & Boatworks 645B South ... MERRITT ISLAND ...

    Garlington Landeweer
    4396 S.E. Commerce Avenue Stuart, FL 34997
    (561) 283-7124 (561) 220-1049-Fax

    Gwaltney Boats
    P.O. Box 509 Wanchese, NC 27981
    (252) 473-4545 (252) 473-3338-Fax


    Merritt Marine in Pompano Beach
    Merritt Boat & Engine Works
    2931N.E. 16th Street Pompano Beach, FL 33062
    (954) 943-6250 (954) 942-1531-Fax

    Jim Smith Boats
    2980 S.E. Dominica Terrace Stuart, FL 33494-5711
    (561) 286-1172 (561) 286-1228-Fax

  14. #14
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    Here is a list of wooden boat builders, both with many years experience in Florida, that may steer you towards some success with insurance. Hauling it maybe your big problem, though.

    Spencer-Rybovich in Palm Beach,
    Rybovich
    4200 North Dixie Highway West Palm Beach, FL 33407
    (561) 844-4331 (561) 844-8393-Fax

    Whiticar Boatworks
    3636 S.E. Old St. Lucie Blvd. Stuart, FL 34996
    (561) 287-2883 (561) 287-2922-Fax

    Huckins Yacht Corp. in Jacksonvile, N.C.
    904-389-1125
    Lowe David Boatyard Inc
    4550 SE Boatyard Dr, Stuart, FL
    Phone: (772) 287-0923

    American Custom Yachts, Inc.
    6800 SW Jack James Drive
    Stuart, Florida 34997
    Phone: 772-221-9100
    Fax:
    772-288-4993
    Email: comments@americancustomyachts.com


    ... Daytona Beach, FL 32127 Tel: 904-756-2180 1-800-360-7012 Fax: 904-360-7012 info@adventureyachtharbor.com, Daytona Marina & Boatworks 645B South ... MERRITT ISLAND ...

    Garlington Landeweer
    4396 S.E. Commerce Avenue Stuart, FL 34997
    (561) 283-7124 (561) 220-1049-Fax

    Gwaltney Boats
    P.O. Box 509 Wanchese, NC 27981
    (252) 473-4545 (252) 473-3338-Fax


    Merritt Marine in Pompano Beach
    Merritt Boat & Engine Works
    2931N.E. 16th Street Pompano Beach, FL 33062
    (954) 943-6250 (954) 942-1531-Fax

    Jim Smith Boats
    2980 S.E. Dominica Terrace Stuart, FL 33494-5711
    (561) 286-1172 (561) 286-1228-Fax

  15. #15
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    Here is a list of wooden boat builders, both with many years experience in Florida, that may steer you towards some success with insurance. Hauling it maybe your big problem, though.

    Spencer-Rybovich in Palm Beach,
    Rybovich
    4200 North Dixie Highway West Palm Beach, FL 33407
    (561) 844-4331 (561) 844-8393-Fax

    Whiticar Boatworks
    3636 S.E. Old St. Lucie Blvd. Stuart, FL 34996
    (561) 287-2883 (561) 287-2922-Fax

    Huckins Yacht Corp. in Jacksonvile, N.C.
    904-389-1125
    Lowe David Boatyard Inc
    4550 SE Boatyard Dr, Stuart, FL
    Phone: (772) 287-0923

    American Custom Yachts, Inc.
    6800 SW Jack James Drive
    Stuart, Florida 34997
    Phone: 772-221-9100
    Fax:
    772-288-4993
    Email: comments@americancustomyachts.com


    ... Daytona Beach, FL 32127 Tel: 904-756-2180 1-800-360-7012 Fax: 904-360-7012 info@adventureyachtharbor.com, Daytona Marina & Boatworks 645B South ... MERRITT ISLAND ...

    Garlington Landeweer
    4396 S.E. Commerce Avenue Stuart, FL 34997
    (561) 283-7124 (561) 220-1049-Fax

    Gwaltney Boats
    P.O. Box 509 Wanchese, NC 27981
    (252) 473-4545 (252) 473-3338-Fax


    Merritt Marine in Pompano Beach
    Merritt Boat & Engine Works
    2931N.E. 16th Street Pompano Beach, FL 33062
    (954) 943-6250 (954) 942-1531-Fax

    Jim Smith Boats
    2980 S.E. Dominica Terrace Stuart, FL 33494-5711
    (561) 286-1172 (561) 286-1228-Fax

  16. #16
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    Did you contact the insurance companies who advertize in our Host's magazine? Have you contacted a real MARINE insurance agency? The folks who write commercial marine insurance? State Farm is insuring my boat but it's a lot smaller-on a trailer. USAA advertizes yacht insurance if you are or ever were a member of the armed forces. No clue what their view of wooden boats is.
    Wayne
    Somewhere in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by Yeadon View Post
    The Straight of Georgia looks big.
    http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/ven...isabeth+Grace/
    http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/venchka/

  17. #17
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    Did you contact the insurance companies who advertize in our Host's magazine? Have you contacted a real MARINE insurance agency? The folks who write commercial marine insurance? State Farm is insuring my boat but it's a lot smaller-on a trailer. USAA advertizes yacht insurance if you are or ever were a member of the armed forces. No clue what their view of wooden boats is.
    Wayne
    Somewhere in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by Yeadon View Post
    The Straight of Georgia looks big.
    http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/ven...isabeth+Grace/
    http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/venchka/

  18. #18
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    Did you contact the insurance companies who advertize in our Host's magazine? Have you contacted a real MARINE insurance agency? The folks who write commercial marine insurance? State Farm is insuring my boat but it's a lot smaller-on a trailer. USAA advertizes yacht insurance if you are or ever were a member of the armed forces. No clue what their view of wooden boats is.
    Wayne
    Somewhere in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by Yeadon View Post
    The Straight of Georgia looks big.
    http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/ven...isabeth+Grace/
    http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/venchka/

  19. #19
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    USAA does insure wooden boats. They insure mine.

  20. #20
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    USAA does insure wooden boats. They insure mine.

  21. #21
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    USAA does insure wooden boats. They insure mine.

  22. #22
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    It's BOTC time(breakout the cash): buy an inthewater survey to satisfy the insurance folk, and any insert of the word Composite will help your cause with the ins. folk. The$300 surveyor you want to buy might be amenable to that. His form is aimed at showing the boat is wettable and has the horns and whistles and fireextinguishers. Since you're buying his report, you can establish beforehand how positive his statements can be.

  23. #23
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    It's BOTC time(breakout the cash): buy an inthewater survey to satisfy the insurance folk, and any insert of the word Composite will help your cause with the ins. folk. The$300 surveyor you want to buy might be amenable to that. His form is aimed at showing the boat is wettable and has the horns and whistles and fireextinguishers. Since you're buying his report, you can establish beforehand how positive his statements can be.

  24. #24
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    It's BOTC time(breakout the cash): buy an inthewater survey to satisfy the insurance folk, and any insert of the word Composite will help your cause with the ins. folk. The$300 surveyor you want to buy might be amenable to that. His form is aimed at showing the boat is wettable and has the horns and whistles and fireextinguishers. Since you're buying his report, you can establish beforehand how positive his statements can be.

  25. #25
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    At the suggestion of Hagerty Insurance, I submitted a request for quote to Offshore. (I've tried and been rejected by over 10 marine insurance vendors) They asked for a copy of the last survey (over 3 years old), and since that survey listed the retail value at 83,000 they gave me a quote for that much hull insurance, along with $300K liability. The rate was $2750/year. This boat will sell for less than $15,000, so I'm sure I could get a lower hull insurance and therefore a somewhat lower premium. Of course I'd still need a current survey and letter of compliance from the surveyer. At this point it doesn't look like this boat would be such a great idea since the Volvo diesel isn't running and the closest place I could find to haul out is 50 miles away.
    Thanks for all the advice.

    Ben

  26. #26
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    At the suggestion of Hagerty Insurance, I submitted a request for quote to Offshore. (I've tried and been rejected by over 10 marine insurance vendors) They asked for a copy of the last survey (over 3 years old), and since that survey listed the retail value at 83,000 they gave me a quote for that much hull insurance, along with $300K liability. The rate was $2750/year. This boat will sell for less than $15,000, so I'm sure I could get a lower hull insurance and therefore a somewhat lower premium. Of course I'd still need a current survey and letter of compliance from the surveyer. At this point it doesn't look like this boat would be such a great idea since the Volvo diesel isn't running and the closest place I could find to haul out is 50 miles away.
    Thanks for all the advice.

    Ben

  27. #27
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    At the suggestion of Hagerty Insurance, I submitted a request for quote to Offshore. (I've tried and been rejected by over 10 marine insurance vendors) They asked for a copy of the last survey (over 3 years old), and since that survey listed the retail value at 83,000 they gave me a quote for that much hull insurance, along with $300K liability. The rate was $2750/year. This boat will sell for less than $15,000, so I'm sure I could get a lower hull insurance and therefore a somewhat lower premium. Of course I'd still need a current survey and letter of compliance from the surveyer. At this point it doesn't look like this boat would be such a great idea since the Volvo diesel isn't running and the closest place I could find to haul out is 50 miles away.
    Thanks for all the advice.

    Ben

  28. #28
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    Ben,
    I am following your quest in this matter with great interest. I am wondering if the insurance co was asked to quote on what might be to me a more realistic item.

    A... Hull insurance in the amount of $15,000 and Liability on the amount of $300K

    B... Liability only in the amount of $300K

    Is the marina requiring insurance as a condition of parking the boat in their slip or is this something that you want?

    G

  29. #29
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    Ben,
    I am following your quest in this matter with great interest. I am wondering if the insurance co was asked to quote on what might be to me a more realistic item.

    A... Hull insurance in the amount of $15,000 and Liability on the amount of $300K

    B... Liability only in the amount of $300K

    Is the marina requiring insurance as a condition of parking the boat in their slip or is this something that you want?

    G

  30. #30
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    Ben,
    I am following your quest in this matter with great interest. I am wondering if the insurance co was asked to quote on what might be to me a more realistic item.

    A... Hull insurance in the amount of $15,000 and Liability on the amount of $300K

    B... Liability only in the amount of $300K

    Is the marina requiring insurance as a condition of parking the boat in their slip or is this something that you want?

    G

  31. #31
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    Titusville, Fl
    Posts
    21

    Smile

    I asked for $15,000 Hull/ 300,000 liability on the application. I've asked them to requote with the lower hull insurance. I lost my old fiberglass Cal 27 when the keel worked loose after a grounding (long sad story) and ended up paying $3750 to a salvage company that only pumped the boat out and towed it 1 mile to my marina. The local yard wouldn't haul it for me cause he didn't want to get stuck with it, so I ended up giving the boat away.

    This boat is being sold by my marina for back dock fees, so I'm sure I could leave it there without insurance if I kept the dock fees current. I've talked to other wooden boat owners in the marina that are self insured (uninsured). The problem is I have other assets that I'm not willing to risk if someone was to get hurt, or if this boat caused damage to some other boat in the marina. I suppose the chance of a claim would be minimal while the boat was in the restoration phase. What do you think? I'd hate to lose my house because I didn't insure my toy. What kind of insurance premiums/coverage do most of you carry?

    Another option I've considered would be to have the boat trucked to my father-in-laws property for the renovations. If I took a year or two by the time I was finished I would have owned a wooden boat for 2 years and might be considered less of a risk. Boat US rejected me because I had "never owned a wooden boat of this size"

    I have tried to forget about the whole thing 3 or 4 times but it keeps haunting me.....

    Ben

  32. #32
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Titusville, Fl
    Posts
    21

    Smile

    I asked for $15,000 Hull/ 300,000 liability on the application. I've asked them to requote with the lower hull insurance. I lost my old fiberglass Cal 27 when the keel worked loose after a grounding (long sad story) and ended up paying $3750 to a salvage company that only pumped the boat out and towed it 1 mile to my marina. The local yard wouldn't haul it for me cause he didn't want to get stuck with it, so I ended up giving the boat away.

    This boat is being sold by my marina for back dock fees, so I'm sure I could leave it there without insurance if I kept the dock fees current. I've talked to other wooden boat owners in the marina that are self insured (uninsured). The problem is I have other assets that I'm not willing to risk if someone was to get hurt, or if this boat caused damage to some other boat in the marina. I suppose the chance of a claim would be minimal while the boat was in the restoration phase. What do you think? I'd hate to lose my house because I didn't insure my toy. What kind of insurance premiums/coverage do most of you carry?

    Another option I've considered would be to have the boat trucked to my father-in-laws property for the renovations. If I took a year or two by the time I was finished I would have owned a wooden boat for 2 years and might be considered less of a risk. Boat US rejected me because I had "never owned a wooden boat of this size"

    I have tried to forget about the whole thing 3 or 4 times but it keeps haunting me.....

    Ben

  33. #33
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Titusville, Fl
    Posts
    21

    Smile

    I asked for $15,000 Hull/ 300,000 liability on the application. I've asked them to requote with the lower hull insurance. I lost my old fiberglass Cal 27 when the keel worked loose after a grounding (long sad story) and ended up paying $3750 to a salvage company that only pumped the boat out and towed it 1 mile to my marina. The local yard wouldn't haul it for me cause he didn't want to get stuck with it, so I ended up giving the boat away.

    This boat is being sold by my marina for back dock fees, so I'm sure I could leave it there without insurance if I kept the dock fees current. I've talked to other wooden boat owners in the marina that are self insured (uninsured). The problem is I have other assets that I'm not willing to risk if someone was to get hurt, or if this boat caused damage to some other boat in the marina. I suppose the chance of a claim would be minimal while the boat was in the restoration phase. What do you think? I'd hate to lose my house because I didn't insure my toy. What kind of insurance premiums/coverage do most of you carry?

    Another option I've considered would be to have the boat trucked to my father-in-laws property for the renovations. If I took a year or two by the time I was finished I would have owned a wooden boat for 2 years and might be considered less of a risk. Boat US rejected me because I had "never owned a wooden boat of this size"

    I have tried to forget about the whole thing 3 or 4 times but it keeps haunting me.....

    Ben

  34. #34
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Portland, OR, USA
    Posts
    454

    Post

    Hi Ben, here's my info for reference:
    My policy is for a part-time liveaboard (liveaboard is higher than normal, which doesn't make sense, but whatever.) My coverage is 28k for the boat, up to 5k for personal belongings on the boat, and I think 300k liability. I pay around $220 for a year.

    I still recommend Mr. Wells for the survey. He charged me about $10/ft. for the survey, which is a small amount to pay in comparison to the cost of the boat plus repairs.

    Or maybe you could have someone look at the engine first, since you can't even get a proper survey without the ability to move the vessel. I don't have any experience with marine diesels, so I don't know costs to repair/replace. I do know that yard fees were $12/day at Banana River Marina while I was there- that's $360/month, just as an fyi to help with your planning.

    I wonder if the marina would take an offer less than the full past-dockage... It may not cost them for it to sit there, but it does prevent a paying customer from renting the slip, so they may be willing to come off their price to get it out of the way, or into the ownership of someone who pays their bills.

    Anyhow, those are just some more thoughts I had. Please keep us updated, and feel free to ask any more questions.

    Good luck!
    Matt

  35. #35
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Portland, OR, USA
    Posts
    454

    Post

    Hi Ben, here's my info for reference:
    My policy is for a part-time liveaboard (liveaboard is higher than normal, which doesn't make sense, but whatever.) My coverage is 28k for the boat, up to 5k for personal belongings on the boat, and I think 300k liability. I pay around $220 for a year.

    I still recommend Mr. Wells for the survey. He charged me about $10/ft. for the survey, which is a small amount to pay in comparison to the cost of the boat plus repairs.

    Or maybe you could have someone look at the engine first, since you can't even get a proper survey without the ability to move the vessel. I don't have any experience with marine diesels, so I don't know costs to repair/replace. I do know that yard fees were $12/day at Banana River Marina while I was there- that's $360/month, just as an fyi to help with your planning.

    I wonder if the marina would take an offer less than the full past-dockage... It may not cost them for it to sit there, but it does prevent a paying customer from renting the slip, so they may be willing to come off their price to get it out of the way, or into the ownership of someone who pays their bills.

    Anyhow, those are just some more thoughts I had. Please keep us updated, and feel free to ask any more questions.

    Good luck!
    Matt

  36. #36
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Portland, OR, USA
    Posts
    454

    Post

    Hi Ben, here's my info for reference:
    My policy is for a part-time liveaboard (liveaboard is higher than normal, which doesn't make sense, but whatever.) My coverage is 28k for the boat, up to 5k for personal belongings on the boat, and I think 300k liability. I pay around $220 for a year.

    I still recommend Mr. Wells for the survey. He charged me about $10/ft. for the survey, which is a small amount to pay in comparison to the cost of the boat plus repairs.

    Or maybe you could have someone look at the engine first, since you can't even get a proper survey without the ability to move the vessel. I don't have any experience with marine diesels, so I don't know costs to repair/replace. I do know that yard fees were $12/day at Banana River Marina while I was there- that's $360/month, just as an fyi to help with your planning.

    I wonder if the marina would take an offer less than the full past-dockage... It may not cost them for it to sit there, but it does prevent a paying customer from renting the slip, so they may be willing to come off their price to get it out of the way, or into the ownership of someone who pays their bills.

    Anyhow, those are just some more thoughts I had. Please keep us updated, and feel free to ask any more questions.

    Good luck!
    Matt

  37. #37
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    6,415

    Post

    Ben,
    Please let us know what the insur cost will be on this reduced coverage, very interested.

    As for self insurance, that is all I ever did, figgered that I was a better operator than to let it sink, but stuff does happen so I agree that some amount of hull insurance is nice to have.

    I agree on the protection of your other assets, and to this maybe finding out exactly what advantages Documentation of the boat by the Coast Guard and ownership of the boat by a Corporation, where you own all or part of the corporations shares would do for you. I hear that this limits your exposure to the Corps assets, and since your house is not in this corp, it's not exposed. I know a little about it, but think we need some help from the legal people on this.

    If you plan on taking 2 yrs to restore it, that might give you 2 yrs experience as "insurance co" may see it so to speak, and also may reduce a yard bill. I would have to know more about the situation to say if I would do it.

    Good luck, keep us informed.

    G

  38. #38
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    6,415

    Post

    Ben,
    Please let us know what the insur cost will be on this reduced coverage, very interested.

    As for self insurance, that is all I ever did, figgered that I was a better operator than to let it sink, but stuff does happen so I agree that some amount of hull insurance is nice to have.

    I agree on the protection of your other assets, and to this maybe finding out exactly what advantages Documentation of the boat by the Coast Guard and ownership of the boat by a Corporation, where you own all or part of the corporations shares would do for you. I hear that this limits your exposure to the Corps assets, and since your house is not in this corp, it's not exposed. I know a little about it, but think we need some help from the legal people on this.

    If you plan on taking 2 yrs to restore it, that might give you 2 yrs experience as "insurance co" may see it so to speak, and also may reduce a yard bill. I would have to know more about the situation to say if I would do it.

    Good luck, keep us informed.

    G

  39. #39
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    6,415

    Post

    Ben,
    Please let us know what the insur cost will be on this reduced coverage, very interested.

    As for self insurance, that is all I ever did, figgered that I was a better operator than to let it sink, but stuff does happen so I agree that some amount of hull insurance is nice to have.

    I agree on the protection of your other assets, and to this maybe finding out exactly what advantages Documentation of the boat by the Coast Guard and ownership of the boat by a Corporation, where you own all or part of the corporations shares would do for you. I hear that this limits your exposure to the Corps assets, and since your house is not in this corp, it's not exposed. I know a little about it, but think we need some help from the legal people on this.

    If you plan on taking 2 yrs to restore it, that might give you 2 yrs experience as "insurance co" may see it so to speak, and also may reduce a yard bill. I would have to know more about the situation to say if I would do it.

    Good luck, keep us informed.

    G

  40. #40
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    6,415

    Post

    Matt,
    I find it interesting that there are diferent rates for liveaboard and non livaboard, wonder why and what might the additionl charge be, 10% or what? When dose part time change to full time liveaboard?.. 6 nights is part time? maybe 5? or 4? or???? Your rates of $220 per year? sounds ok to me.. my auto insurance is a lot more. Is there a diferent rate for a sail or a power boat?

    I have never had a survey and know so little of what they actually do. Is the survey to inform the insurance co that this boat is in good shape and not a klunker that will most likely sink soon after a policy is written?.. I am puzzled by what price they might say it's sposedly worth, $100K ? not when you can buy it for $20K.. actual mkt value is fine with me.

    G

    [ 09-09-2003, 05:24 PM: Message edited by: Gary E ]

  41. #41
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    6,415

    Post

    Matt,
    I find it interesting that there are diferent rates for liveaboard and non livaboard, wonder why and what might the additionl charge be, 10% or what? When dose part time change to full time liveaboard?.. 6 nights is part time? maybe 5? or 4? or???? Your rates of $220 per year? sounds ok to me.. my auto insurance is a lot more. Is there a diferent rate for a sail or a power boat?

    I have never had a survey and know so little of what they actually do. Is the survey to inform the insurance co that this boat is in good shape and not a klunker that will most likely sink soon after a policy is written?.. I am puzzled by what price they might say it's sposedly worth, $100K ? not when you can buy it for $20K.. actual mkt value is fine with me.

    G

    [ 09-09-2003, 05:24 PM: Message edited by: Gary E ]

  42. #42
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    6,415

    Post

    Matt,
    I find it interesting that there are diferent rates for liveaboard and non livaboard, wonder why and what might the additionl charge be, 10% or what? When dose part time change to full time liveaboard?.. 6 nights is part time? maybe 5? or 4? or???? Your rates of $220 per year? sounds ok to me.. my auto insurance is a lot more. Is there a diferent rate for a sail or a power boat?

    I have never had a survey and know so little of what they actually do. Is the survey to inform the insurance co that this boat is in good shape and not a klunker that will most likely sink soon after a policy is written?.. I am puzzled by what price they might say it's sposedly worth, $100K ? not when you can buy it for $20K.. actual mkt value is fine with me.

    G

    [ 09-09-2003, 05:24 PM: Message edited by: Gary E ]

  43. #43
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Titusville, Fl
    Posts
    21

    Post

    The marina filed a judgement against the owner for $20,000 in back dock fees, but the judge knocked it down to $12,000. From what I can tell no one else seems to be infatuated with this boat like me. It could end up going to whoever will get rid of it. I've been advised that I'd never get back any money spent on this thing, so my offer would be low, in the $6000-8000 range. If I could find insurance for $220 it would be an easy decision. I was paying $400 on the Cal 27 and that was with only 7000 hull coverage and 300,000 liability. I was expecting a premium more around $800 or so. I suspect that the liability is the biggest factor in the premium. I know in automotive insurance the insurance companies don't blink an eye at fixing a car. Hospital bills and attorney fees are where the big money payouts are.

    I'll keep you all posted.
    Ben

  44. #44
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Titusville, Fl
    Posts
    21

    Post

    The marina filed a judgement against the owner for $20,000 in back dock fees, but the judge knocked it down to $12,000. From what I can tell no one else seems to be infatuated with this boat like me. It could end up going to whoever will get rid of it. I've been advised that I'd never get back any money spent on this thing, so my offer would be low, in the $6000-8000 range. If I could find insurance for $220 it would be an easy decision. I was paying $400 on the Cal 27 and that was with only 7000 hull coverage and 300,000 liability. I was expecting a premium more around $800 or so. I suspect that the liability is the biggest factor in the premium. I know in automotive insurance the insurance companies don't blink an eye at fixing a car. Hospital bills and attorney fees are where the big money payouts are.

    I'll keep you all posted.
    Ben

  45. #45
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Titusville, Fl
    Posts
    21

    Post

    The marina filed a judgement against the owner for $20,000 in back dock fees, but the judge knocked it down to $12,000. From what I can tell no one else seems to be infatuated with this boat like me. It could end up going to whoever will get rid of it. I've been advised that I'd never get back any money spent on this thing, so my offer would be low, in the $6000-8000 range. If I could find insurance for $220 it would be an easy decision. I was paying $400 on the Cal 27 and that was with only 7000 hull coverage and 300,000 liability. I was expecting a premium more around $800 or so. I suspect that the liability is the biggest factor in the premium. I know in automotive insurance the insurance companies don't blink an eye at fixing a car. Hospital bills and attorney fees are where the big money payouts are.

    I'll keep you all posted.
    Ben

  46. #46
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    my fishing hole
    Posts
    2,716

    Post

    Ben, the repairs and replacement costs, is the big problem with insurance companies. Liability is not the problem. Its a no win situation for insurance companies for most wooden boats. It is no different in fire insurance for wooden dwellings. Many times this is all that they will write at all, on old buildings for repeat customers.

    This marina will be lucky to get an offer of any price, in your area. Go lower than 6,000 dollars. More like three thousand dollars. You still will have to deal with the hauling and work. They may write off the money, depending on the size of the marina, so you may not get it, but the engine is the big factor,or at least it would be for me. Replacement cost is a biggy.

    [ 09-09-2003, 10:17 PM: Message edited by: Oyster ]

  47. #47
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    my fishing hole
    Posts
    2,716

    Post

    Ben, the repairs and replacement costs, is the big problem with insurance companies. Liability is not the problem. Its a no win situation for insurance companies for most wooden boats. It is no different in fire insurance for wooden dwellings. Many times this is all that they will write at all, on old buildings for repeat customers.

    This marina will be lucky to get an offer of any price, in your area. Go lower than 6,000 dollars. More like three thousand dollars. You still will have to deal with the hauling and work. They may write off the money, depending on the size of the marina, so you may not get it, but the engine is the big factor,or at least it would be for me. Replacement cost is a biggy.

    [ 09-09-2003, 10:17 PM: Message edited by: Oyster ]

  48. #48
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    my fishing hole
    Posts
    2,716

    Post

    Ben, the repairs and replacement costs, is the big problem with insurance companies. Liability is not the problem. Its a no win situation for insurance companies for most wooden boats. It is no different in fire insurance for wooden dwellings. Many times this is all that they will write at all, on old buildings for repeat customers.

    This marina will be lucky to get an offer of any price, in your area. Go lower than 6,000 dollars. More like three thousand dollars. You still will have to deal with the hauling and work. They may write off the money, depending on the size of the marina, so you may not get it, but the engine is the big factor,or at least it would be for me. Replacement cost is a biggy.

    [ 09-09-2003, 10:17 PM: Message edited by: Oyster ]

  49. #49
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    6,415

    Post

    Ben,

    While poking around on the net I found BLACKADAR Marine Insurance

    http://www.blackadarmarine.com/yachts.html

    this is taken from their site...
    "No fewer than 7 "A" rated insurance companies are available to provide coverage for any size and type of boat or yacht. All policies we offer are "Agreed Value" forms. You will not find an "Actual Cash Value (ACV)" policy in our office."

    Maybe worth a looksee

    G

  50. #50
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    6,415

    Post

    Ben,

    While poking around on the net I found BLACKADAR Marine Insurance

    http://www.blackadarmarine.com/yachts.html

    this is taken from their site...
    "No fewer than 7 "A" rated insurance companies are available to provide coverage for any size and type of boat or yacht. All policies we offer are "Agreed Value" forms. You will not find an "Actual Cash Value (ACV)" policy in our office."

    Maybe worth a looksee

    G

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