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Thread: Pathfinder Build In FL Keys

  1. #176
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    Default Re: Pathfinder Build In FL Keys

    looking good
    Fish and ships or is that chips

  2. #177
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    Default Re: Pathfinder Build In FL Keys

    Finally back on the build after the holidays, trying to wrap up the rub rails so I can get the sheer strake varnished.

    I had to make the upper rail in two strips because my teak stock is limited. The glue line will be covered with brass bang strip. Each strip first had to be run thru the thickness planer, ripped and scrarfed into one long strip. I also tapered the last three feet at the bow for aesthetics. Also the bottom was given a smaller round over than the top piece.

    A glue job of this size requires lots of prep and getting ducks lined up. Up to this point, the teak was acetoned and taped off, clamps spread out. Both the rail strip and the boat were wetted out with straight resin first, then I mixed up batch of peanut butter. I started at the bow and worked aft, this makes getting it right at the stem easier.

    Wetted out...




    Peanut butter applied to boat using pastry bag...



    Getten started...



    All clamped up, squeeze out cleaned up...wanted to takes the tape off, but I would have to retape for varnishing so due rail for now...



    Got some bling, these are 1" bronze scupper drains from Spartan Marine...test fitting, used a 45deg camfer bit after drilling a 1 1/2 hole...





    Sails!! Balanced lug main (142sqft, this was slightly modified from JW's lug plan sold by duckworks ), mizzen and a jib for sailing under jib and jigger after dropping the main...thank you Nat Wilson sail makers!


    Last edited by deke; 01-15-2016 at 10:16 AM.
    "There are many sailors at the bottom of the sea that are smarter than you or I"

  3. #178
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    Default Re: Pathfinder Build In FL Keys

    Where are you putting the scuppers?

    Congrats with the sails! Now you are on a critical path to the ocean...

    Rik

  4. #179
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    Default Re: Pathfinder Build In FL Keys

    On the foward deck, just aft of CB access hatch with drain tube leading to the cockpit. Where did you put your forward deck drains? I was considering raising the deck edges about a 1/4" so water slopes to the middle of the boat where those drains will be. Any drain issues discovered since your launch?

    For that matter, have any issues come up that you would go back and do differently?
    "There are many sailors at the bottom of the sea that are smarter than you or I"

  5. #180
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    Default Re: Pathfinder Build In FL Keys

    Where the forward deck, the cb housing and the riser for the seating area join i drilled a large hole (actually two, one on each sides) and gooped in an electrical pvc tube which brings the water back to the cockpit. It works well but the water usually collects on the outer sides while sailing. So the tubes do not do any work until back in the garage when cleaning up. Then it does lead the water to the cockpit where I can scoop or sponge it out. While sailing it would be better to have the forward seawater come into the cockpit. In the future I will make two new holes in the outer areas of the forward deck. I like those scuppers; look clean when installed... Where did you get them?

  6. #181
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    Default Re: Pathfinder Build In FL Keys

    Those drains are from Spartan Marine, 1" with the backing nut. I bought the other end , the "cockpit exit side" from Jamestown marine because they where about half price, Groco bronze thru hull barbed for those.

    I had to glue a double piece under the deck where the drain goes because the locknut needs more than 9mm to make contact, so keep that in mind. They do sell a similar scupper drain that is glassed in place that does not require a locknut.

    Thats good info on the drains pooling under sail, I failed to think about draining while heeled. I need to rethink my location. I selected my location for future access for maintenance, I'll have to see how far over I can get my arm.

    Rik any other minor issues come up for ya?
    "There are many sailors at the bottom of the sea that are smarter than you or I"

  7. #182
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    Default Re: Pathfinder Build In FL Keys

    It will be a challenge for me to get the scuppers in but it will improve sailing comfort as water in the boat has to be minimized. There are many things i learned as i went along and all could be taken care of after building. The design is aersome. We have very good boats.
    If u have any particular questions u can always send me a message.
    Rik

  8. #183
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    Jun 2012
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    Default Re: Pathfinder Build In FL Keys

    More loose ends knocked out. Rudder glued up, finally...

    Before finally assembly, the interior pieces that are exposed to the rudder and tiller got 4oz cloth and the weave filled with graphite epoxy mix for additional protection. Also all bolt holes for the pintles were over drilled and filled with thickened epoxy...packers were pre glued awhile back...



    The four bolts that cannot be thru bolted were counter sunk and holes epoxy filled...



    Starting the glue up, each piece wetted out with unthickened epoxy and then both sides given a even coating of ketchup consistency...



    Extreme clean out where the sliding parts go...




    Sea Beagle taking a stroll on the foredeck, got downright frigid here in the Keys, mid 50's, brrr...

    "There are many sailors at the bottom of the sea that are smarter than you or I"

  9. #184
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    Default Re: Pathfinder Build In FL Keys

    Gave the rudder a layer of 4oz cloth, one piece...



    Debating whether to finish bright...



    Transom work, decided I wanted more of an oval shape, made a jig and used the handy flush trim bit...



    While doing so, I discovered the center of the keel appeared to be about 1/8th off from a center mark on the original tiller cutout hole. I figure the rudder must be centered with the keel, so I leveled the bottom of the boat and drew a plumb line to the center of the keel. This new line was 1/8th off the original transom center point at the top...




    This must be the center for the rudder to hand, I think, if not the rudder would be canted with the boat sitting I the water , albeit only 1/8th. So the new tiller cutout shifted slightly...



    Adding sme sme doubler on the deck, two 12mm pieces for the boomkin mount, and starting the seat doublers...

    "There are many sailors at the bottom of the sea that are smarter than you or I"

  10. #185
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    Default Re: Pathfinder Build In FL Keys

    Made a piece to fit into the tiller cutout in transom, I wanted to first protect the end grain in the ply and I also wanted to have an attachment for a canvas or leather tiller boot to keep water from shipping in thru transom, this piece of red cedar fit the bill,

    after I stared at this chunk of cedar, I finally picked up a pencil, jig saw and router...



    Little router slippage at the top, damnit all, oh well...




    Fit nicely...



    This ring should make a good attachment for a tiller boot...




    Needs a little more cleanup, but otherwise...

    "There are many sailors at the bottom of the sea that are smarter than you or I"

  11. #186
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    Default Re: Pathfinder Build In FL Keys

    Drain decisions have been made, many thanks Rik for the heads up on locations. I decided adding an additional drain in the side corner of B4 for draining while heeled. I have good access to both drains for future maintenance, they will T together and drain into the cockpit...



    Got lucky here! Came in just under the floor support. This is a 3" brass tube drain, I found some 6" ones that I will use to give more clamping surface since there aren't any barbs...



    Last edited by deke; 01-23-2016 at 10:54 PM.
    "There are many sailors at the bottom of the sea that are smarter than you or I"

  12. #187
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    Default Re: Pathfinder Build In FL Keys

    So the transom trim has been clamped to the form for about a month now. Easing a clamp revealed some spring back, so I rigged up a another jig to hold its shape while I clamped it.

    From a month ago using the wife's floor steamer...



    Before removing it it from the jig, I screwed this board to its ends and added a couple of braces...this held the bend nicely...



    Glue up was a panic-free non event...

    "There are many sailors at the bottom of the sea that are smarter than you or I"

  13. #188
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    Default Re: Pathfinder Build In FL Keys

    Came up with a hatch seal plan. Decided to go with the bar lock system that others have used. Bungees didn't seem secure enough and multiple dogs around the perimeter seemed too complicated and puts lots of screw holes in the deck.

    I wanted to make the handle as flush as possible and tool-less. I didn't like the idea of recessing the handle into the deck because of water pooling in the cutout.

    Parts: 6mm ply cutout with hole saw, think I used a 3", 3" length of bronze rod threaded to 5/16 (ordered 3" bolts for the rest of the hatches), teak piece for center of ply, 1" cutout from center of hatch lid and a chunk of red cedar for the bar, two stops for inside the hatch.


    Glue up...the center of the bar was over drilled and filled with thickened epoxy, this will be tapped to 5/16 later...rest of the pieces glued together to form the knob...I routed the teak piece with a cove bit prior to glueing and I also chiseled a small slot for the teak piece for additional strength. The 6mm ply plus the 18mm cutout from the hatch gives the bronze bolt plenty of glueing surface, plus I hit the bolt with the grinder and put a flat in it...



    So I made a knob and tapped the center of the bar to 5/16...a rubber washer will go around the perimeter of the hole in the center...



    Kindaof crappy pic, but it shows the stop piece up inside, there is another on the other side, both are offset...



    Here it is assembled and ready for installation, I just need to add gasket material to the hatch lip and rubber washer under the handle on top of the hatch...



    Install, it locks down very tight, next to it is a piece of Seadek material I may use for decking , it is almost as thick as the 6mm ply, so the knob will be flush except for the raised teak part...



    Profile view of the knob...

    "There are many sailors at the bottom of the sea that are smarter than you or I"

  14. #189
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    Jun 2012
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    Default Re: Pathfinder Build In FL Keys

    Beginning of a tiller...this is a a board from a red cedar tree from an island near Crystal River from my pops saw mill. I don't know if this is desirable material for a tiller, but I be a mess of it, it is very hard stuff, fairly light weight and seems very strong...



    A bit more fairing and rounding over, but it is close...more hatch parts in background...





    Still need to shape the part out the back, not sure if I will use a wedge there to lock the till in or just put a bronze bolt or pin thru the rudder head...

    "There are many sailors at the bottom of the sea that are smarter than you or I"

  15. #190
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    Default Re: Pathfinder Build In FL Keys

    The knob I made needed some tweaking. The raised portion on top failed to give me a comfortable grip and not enough to leaverage to tighten the hatch down sufficiently after adding gasket material to the hatch. It was also gong to be difficult to get the knobs to all align the same way. I also figured it would be more comfortable to sit on a flat knob rather than one with a raised center.

    So here is the new design...it has a much larger diameter and it is a lot easier to grab the sides and turn it opposed to a raised center...another bonus is the seadek material will be able to sit under the upper portion of the knob now giving a cleaner finish...



    Should be a lot easier to tighten up snug, could even do so wearing gloves in the cold I reckon...



    I made a template to make the rest of the knobs using the flush trim bit. By rough cutting the knob close to the finish size with a jig saw first, the flush bit has less material to remove making it easier to hold on to and easier to cut in general...



    The finish nails don't go all the way thru, just enough to hold it in place...yep, I just laid the router upside down on the table saw...low speed on the router worked better, easier to control...



    Hopefulley it will pass inspection tomorrow, I'd rather not have to redesign again, Devils in those details...


    "There are many sailors at the bottom of the sea that are smarter than you or I"

  16. #191
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    Default Re: Pathfinder Build In FL Keys

    So you're putting your seat hatches on the seat tops instead of the vertical seat fronts?
    “It doesn’t matter how slowly you go -- so long as you do not stop.”
    -Confucius

  17. #192
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    Default Re: Pathfinder Build In FL Keys

    Ya, seem more useful as a storage hatch that way. Drawback being scallywags may have to sit on my hatch knob, but I sail single handed more than with guests. I specifically put the cockpit hatches farther forward from where I think I'll be sitting, also forward from where the boomkin fitting is. Also I put a hatch in the very back by the transom since I'm not building a motor well.

    Plus there is a hatch just in front of the transom....

    "There are many sailors at the bottom of the sea that are smarter than you or I"

  18. #193
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    Default Re: Pathfinder Build In FL Keys

    The horizontal hatches will make access easier, but I'd make real sure the hatch seals are effective, tested and maintained. When the boat is on it's side, the water level will submerge the hatches placed there, and seapage enhanced due to water pressure increase under the surface could flood the side tank, at worst. Most hatches, even commercial ones, aren't actually fully sealed when tested. This is why some opt for placement in vertical cockpit sides further inboard and as shown, which will be higher with respect to the new water level when the boat is on it's side. Just water won't drain either if the bottom is sealed with a top opener. Vivier does something interesting by actually having a flooding semi open top and bottom drain and fills the hole space with encapsulated closed cell foam, but that's a reflection of the French CE demands perhaps and looses storage. The gasket has to seal but also cope with non flatness or warpage of any faying surfaces, which is why the shop purchased plastic lid ones don't always seal. A bit of grease on the seal may help too. Re the lock down turnbuckles. They look quite large and I'd consider if it's a trip hazard walking on the side seats if your line handling, or someone else is. Nice boat and a great design.
    Last edited by Edward Pearson; 02-01-2016 at 12:30 PM.

  19. #194
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    Default Re: Pathfinder Build In FL Keys

    No doubt, agreed. Watertight is critical. Main reason I chose this design, lots of built in flotation. Some good thoughts, thanks for the input.

    tested out the new knob today. I am much happier with it. It is much easier to grib and no problems getting the hatch nice and tight. I like that I will be able to trim the seadek under the knob. I don't think there is much of a trip hazard, functionality and ease of use trumps. The neoprene seal is getting good compression all around.




    This is just a quick test seal, actual seal will be better fitted...



    Will trim out nicely with the seadek...ill fair the top of the hatch flush to the deck after final seal choices are made rather than routing a groove I the hatch...

    "There are many sailors at the bottom of the sea that are smarter than you or I"

  20. #195
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    Default Re: Pathfinder Build In FL Keys

    I used that hatch design on my wife's outer island and our ck 17. They were both water tight. Both have been on their side. I did replace the neoprene every few years.
    __________________________________________________ ________________________

  21. #196
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    Default Re: Pathfinder Build In FL Keys

    Few updates just to keep off the dreaded page two...starting to seal the decks up. Little bit stressful, kinda like putting up Sheetrock, you hope you have everything well thought thru and ready to be permanently sealed. Filling screw holes, painting, drain plumbing, tie down planning, hatch finalization and lots of vacuuming.

    i decided to add an extra floor support...the one in the middle...I noticed little flexing walking around on the unglued decks, so, just to be sure, I adding another cross member..she is real solid now...



    One last look before she is sealed up...hopefully you can follow the drain plan, there are two drains per side draining water from the upper deck to the cockpit. The cockpit will be the bail point, no drains overboard, no holes in the boat besides the CB box top and the tiller cutout and these will be sealed too.



    Painted the storage areas with Totalboat bilge paint. In hindsight, I think epoxy mixed with graphite would have been better...also, on at least three seperate occasions, I very carefully looked over the bilge areas for any un filled nail or screw holes and made sure every thing had been well saturated with epoxy...




    A look at the panel before it goes down...the doublers are for the floor drain and I wanted to beef up the area where I'm planning on keeping a 17# fishermans anchor strapped to the deck...all is well epoxied, especially the end grain...



    Action shot...stay calm...



    Deck is solid as a rock, glued and screwed with 3/4" bronze screws... the boat got a lot stouter today...again I have to say well done JW, with each major step you can feel the strength of the boat multiply, your boat designmanship is awesome...

    "There are many sailors at the bottom of the sea that are smarter than you or I"

  22. #197
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    Default Re: Pathfinder Build In FL Keys

    What adhesive are you using? It looks like PL Premium?
    Quote Originally Posted by deke View Post
    “It doesn’t matter how slowly you go -- so long as you do not stop.”
    -Confucius

  23. #198
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    Default Re: Pathfinder Build In FL Keys

    MAS epoxy thickened with wood flour.
    "There are many sailors at the bottom of the sea that are smarter than you or I"

  24. #199
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    Default Re: Pathfinder Build In FL Keys

    how did you apply it in beads Deke?

  25. #200
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    Default Re: Pathfinder Build In FL Keys

    Quote Originally Posted by andrewpatrol View Post
    how did you apply it in beads Deke?
    I like the disposable pastry decorating bags. They give great control when you need to coax the goop into a seam or crevice while keeping everything else tidy. You can also just fill a ziploc sandwich baggie and clip a corner to your desired size.

    --Mike
    “It doesn’t matter how slowly you go -- so long as you do not stop.”
    -Confucius

  26. #201
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    Default Re: Pathfinder Build In FL Keys

    With a pastry bag... I bought a roll of those pastry bags at the start of the build, still haven't used the whole roll but I'm getting close. Moman is right, the pastry bags are the way to go. A little trick I do is , after I twist the end up tight, I roll a few wraps of masking tape around the end so I don't have to sweat it coming unrolled and loosening up as I use it, especially after my gloves get epoxy on them and get sloppy.


    Shot of a strapping bar inside of the main storage hatch next to the CB, this will be used to secure water jugs...



    Getting the dory ready for the Everglades Challenge, just three weeks away!!...




    "There are many sailors at the bottom of the sea that are smarter than you or I"

  27. #202
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    Default Re: Pathfinder Build In FL Keys

    The Everglades Challenge! Cool. I hope you write about it again.

    Good Luck

    Kenny

  28. #203
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    Default Re: Pathfinder Build In FL Keys

    Since we got on the subject of filleting, here's how I typically get a smooth fillet, as learned from the folks at CLC ...

    After dispensing with the pastry bag, and initially cornering work is complete without he plastic west system sticks, I am left with a decent looking but lumpy fillet...



    After about thirty minutes, when the fillet starts to gel, I go back and run a plastic gloved finger dipped in denatured alcohol over it, start with a light touch and if you feel any friction, dip your finger back in the alcohol, you should be able to smooth out and shape your fillet easily...


    Top of this fillet has been hit with the glove and alcohol, the bottom of it hasn't...



    Finished fillet...

    "There are many sailors at the bottom of the sea that are smarter than you or I"

  29. #204
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    Default Re: Pathfinder Build In FL Keys

    Neat trick! Thanks.

    Dory looks cool. Any daggerboard tricks up your sleeve? I have one hole drilled in mine to hold it about one-third up for shallow conditions
    I've had some "exciting" moments approaching a beach in a breeze.

    Mike

  30. #205
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    Default Re: Pathfinder Build In FL Keys

    Quote Originally Posted by Falcon1 View Post
    Neat trick! Thanks.

    Dory looks cool. Any daggerboard tricks up your sleeve? I have one hole drilled in mine to hold it about one-third up for shallow conditions
    I've had some "exciting" moments approaching a beach in a breeze.

    Mike
    Mike, back IN THE DAY... when some of us were campaigning SUNFISH, we would just run a bungee around the back side of the daggerboard

    kinda like the current treatment for the cassette rudders

    on my FORCE 5, i had a bungee snapped to the top of the DAGGERBOARD leading fwd around the mast

    same results w/ both methods

    painted horizontal stripes told us how deep we were running

    no pin to remove

    & YOU'RE RIGHT... THE DORY DOES LOOK COOL

    sw
    "we are the people, our parents warned us about" (jb)

    steve

  31. #206
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    Default Re: Pathfinder Build In FL Keys

    I use a bungee to hold it down, and for keeping it up in shallows, I have a plastic clamp I clamp to it in the front, works great, no holes to drill. I'll take some pics today going sailing.
    "There are many sailors at the bottom of the sea that are smarter than you or I"

  32. #207
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    Default Re: Pathfinder Build In FL Keys

    CB down...



    Up...simple, but effective and infinitely adjustable depth....



    Oar retainment system...

    "There are many sailors at the bottom of the sea that are smarter than you or I"

  33. #208
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    Default Re: Pathfinder Build In FL Keys

    Started glassing the forward deck...










    Last edited by deke; 02-27-2016 at 10:33 PM.
    "There are many sailors at the bottom of the sea that are smarter than you or I"

  34. #209
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    Default Re: Pathfinder Build In FL Keys

    Everglades Challenge starts tomorrow. I'll be leaving FT Desoto at sunrise. Here is the link to the tracking map if anyone wants to follow, I'm the little yellow box that says DEKE

    http://www.watertribe.com/Events/ChallengeGMapper.aspx




    "There are many sailors at the bottom of the sea that are smarter than you or I"

  35. #210
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    Default Re: Pathfinder Build In FL Keys

    Well the EC this year was very humbling, I made it as far as CP2, Everglades City, before I had to accept defeat. I enjoyed a nice north wind for the first two days and made good progress, then ran into 20-25 winds from the SE. Too risky for me to consider going around PT sable in those conditions, I tried my hand at rowing inside and found the task too difficult in those conditions in the dory. I only made 8 miles hard rowing a full day in strong headwinds and choppy shallow water. I figured it would be 5 days of hard rowing thru the wilderness waterway to cover the 60 miles to CP 3 and make it to flamingo, all straight into the wind, too much for me. Maybe next year.

    A few pics...

    The start...



    Coming into Gordon Pass from the gulf just north of Big Marco at sunset, day 2, I had covered about 130 miles at this point in 36hrs...




    Morning sunrise sail down the Marco river early the next morning ....



    Now back back to boat building!!!
    "There are many sailors at the bottom of the sea that are smarter than you or I"

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