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Thread: CLC Nanoship 12'6" water ballasted self righting cruising dinghy

  1. #36
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    Default Re: CLC Nanoship 12'6" water ballasted self righting cruising dinghy

    I did some miles this summer on an 8 foot PuddleDuck (scow), the simplest, ugliest boat I could imagine. At first it was just a means to an end (to cruise in another part of the country by just flying in and borrowing somebody's stunt boat). I could not imagine liking it, ever. I even joked that it wasn't quite a boat. The man who built and used it before me was (is) a wider-minded man -- I think he saw it as a boat from the start. By the end of the week's cruise, my mind had shifted its paradigm a little. Yeah, I was stiff, sore, and abused, but that was because we (others using the same kind of boat) had set ourselves a daily regimen to attain agreed distances. With a bit more freedom to choose, I suddenly saw what a person could do with a boat that could be dropped off from and picked up by the bed of a van or pick-up truck. I knew this inherently, but not actually. By the end I saw it as a boat deserving respect -- it had taught me a lesson. No, I don't really want that one, exactly (I am used to a faster outrigger canoe), but I see different things now in small boats (and yes, I am actually more fascinated with that personal expedition sailboat, but let's have a separate thread on that someday!) -- which sounds strange to me, because that is only what I've ever sailed, but everything is relative. This nano-boat I see in that way despite some limitations (draft is the biggest one, for me; weatherliness is more a time issue, and can be negotiated with; draft is a where issue). -- Wade

  2. #37
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    Default Re: CLC Nanoship 12'6" water ballasted self righting cruising dinghy



    The rudder post/ mizzen/ transom arrangement would allow the mizzen to be fully stayed with shrouds fore and aft and held without interference. Just sayin that its otherwise hard to do either on a mizzen to one side on a transom, or a double ender with an aft rudder.

    For a boat not dropping the rig, shrouds can reduce the weight aloft, to the same degree as hollow masts do by allowing a reduced mast scantling. Doing both, gives the opportunity for the lowest weight aloft.

    I don't think he's drawn it fully stayed, but I'm just sayin, if someone were going off, with that arrangement, it's possible to have all the masts structurally supported and a normal tiller as one upside. That's something applicable to a smaller boat that might be rolled more easily to a breaking wave and stop a bad day getting worse. The mizzen slightly further forward, there is a good sheet angle to the transom without a boomkin too.

    Edward (son of KHP)
    Last edited by keyhavenpotterer; 01-06-2015 at 08:37 AM.

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    Default Re: CLC Nanoship 12'6" water ballasted self righting cruising dinghy

    Quote Originally Posted by Howard Rice View Post
    .....give a guy like me twenty minutes and I can bore the socks off anyone.
    No, you have a ways to go.
    Having just got off work I not only have my woolen socks on my feet, I am wearing liner stockings too.
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    Default Re: CLC Nanoship 12'6" water ballasted self righting cruising dinghy

    boring? not at all. thanks for the insight.

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    Default Re: CLC Nanoship 12'6" water ballasted self righting cruising dinghy

    Quote Originally Posted by keyhavenpotterer View Post


    The rudder post/ mizzen/ transom arrangement would allow the mizzen to be fully stayed with shrouds fore and aft and held without interference. Just sayin that its otherwise hard to do either on a mizzen to one side on a transom, or a double ender with an aft rudder.

    For a boat not dropping the rig, shrouds can reduce the weight aloft, to the same degree as hollow masts do by allowing a reduced mast scantling. Doing both, gives the opportunity for the lowest weight aloft.

    I don't think he's drawn it fully stayed, but I'm just sayin, if someone were going off, with that arrangement, it's possible to have all the masts structurally supported and a normal tiller as one upside. That's something applicable to a smaller boat that might be rolled more easily to a breaking wave and stop a bad day getting worse. The mizzen slightly further forward, there is a good sheet angle to the transom without a boomkin too.

    Edward (son of KHP)
    I think that this rig would benefit significantly from the use of carbon fibre spars.

  6. #41
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    Default Re: CLC Nanoship 12'6" water ballasted self righting cruising dinghy

    Just how much weight would be saved on a rig like this by using smaller diameter spars but with wire rigging? Using my family skiff unstayed mast as an example, at 13ft long, 3in at base tapering to 1 1/2in at top carring 97sq ft, if i decided to use wire stays how much could those mast dimensions be reduced? I would have thought masts without spreaders might have a bit of a problem in these sizes to get a good shroud base angle for most efficient support? I didnt even hollow that mast out as the weight saving was negliable in my opinion.

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    Default Re: CLC Nanoship 12'6" water ballasted self righting cruising dinghy

    What boat would not benefit significantly from the use of carbon fiber spars? The problem with carbon fiber spars from an artist's perspective is that they are generally boring black with not especially efficient or interesting cross sections. Wood does have its advantages. On a boat as stylish as this Nanoship, well made wooden spars would definitely be prettier and last longer especially if one had a habit of striking the rig for rowing. Wooden spars will survive better when it comes to banging them around while trying to store them in the boat for rowing.

    As for James McMullen's question about "what's not to like?," well, there's hull speed. For some, hull speed is not much of an issue. If your main joy is just being on the water and seeing all the nature and wildlife around you, you really don't need to be going very fast at all. In fact, many times, the slower you go, the less you will miss.
    Last edited by kenjamin; 01-06-2015 at 09:32 AM.

  8. #43
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    Default Re: CLC Nanoship 12'6" water ballasted self righting cruising dinghy

    Carbon fiber spars are very expensive and unpleasant to build compared to spruce ones. I don't see it as either cost effective or joy effective in a boat of this performance envelope and mission.

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    Default Re: CLC Nanoship 12'6" water ballasted self righting cruising dinghy

    Quote Originally Posted by James McMullen View Post
    Carbon fiber spars are very expensive and unpleasant to build compared to spruce ones. I don't see it as either cost effective or joy effective in a boat of this performance envelope and mission.

    I wouldn't suggest building them - you could probably just use relatively inexpensive off the shelf roll-wrapped tube in standard sizes. Even if the masts were wooden carbon yards would still be a benefit.

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    Default Re: CLC Nanoship 12'6" water ballasted self righting cruising dinghy

    Yeah, but a boat of this size could just use sticks, you know. But of course, if it's your boat that you build yourself, you get to pick what and where you spend your money on.

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    Default Re: CLC Nanoship 12'6" water ballasted self righting cruising dinghy

    I went for solid Spruce on my 12ft Shearwater. I didn't figure the weight savings in proportion to the size of the boat, height of rig, proportions of the rig, and the blocking necessary and a relatively form stable hull's proportions would make it especially worthwhile for my abject boatbuilding lazyness. It also reduces roll speed, which I've decided to prefer inshore.

    This boat has more sail carrying power for its length given that it's likely of higher displacement, and will have a higher righting force available due to its ballast arrangements and likely beam at higher roll angles than typical, so it could potentially put more strain through the rigging of an unreefed sail plan, so I'd personally go with solid masts and booms and a maybe a carbon yard. A cut off tapered windsurfer mast can work well on these size sail plans and are cheapish to procure. Light yards would be the most beneficial target that high up. But I would would still be inclined to use solid wood for its custamisable shape and its for its ability to attach fittings, but I don't think anything including spruce gets near the cost weight, easy to procure benefit of simple aluminium tube: its so cheap and available in marine spec in upto 5m lengths, at least here in UK. There's an aesthetic issue there though, which is an individuals choice: I like black masts for instance.

    Back to Nanoship, she'd an along shore dinghy cruiser, who for a flinting second will have you holding in hand a 50ft Breton lugger when the wind and chop are just perfectly equally downsized, and for that brief moment, you have the tiller, view and motion stretched fore and aft of that historic French type, excpet she's garageable, cheap to run and easy to take to Morbihan.

    I was just wanting to point out that for people, like say Howard, who apporach sailing more like rock climbing, her arrangement would potentially allow a fully stayed rig. If you were up for hopping Newfoundland to Greenland, to Iceland to Faroe to Shetland to Norway, and you'd resolved that doing it in 12ft'er would be the most rewarding and best option, then that's significant. Reduction in mast scantling and windage is just a bonus on offer, down that avenue.

    I havn't quite understood the transom angle yet. It gives her identity for sure though, which is no bad thing. On the old boats, I think they were mainly fish counters and it will extend the WL and apparent WL sailing healed, but still, its making a statement on a 12ft er that has ballast to help it sail upright. Helps sheeting angle for the mizzen certainly. Maybe there is alot of flare aft for landing the plankor helps the rate of immersion of the front and rear reserve buoyancy be the same? Otherwise it's an 11ft'er with counter. Anybody wiser on highly raked transoms Breton'esk: why so?

    Ed
    Last edited by keyhavenpotterer; 01-06-2015 at 12:50 PM.

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    Default Re: CLC Nanoship 12'6" water ballasted self righting cruising dinghy



    She is a cute little boat, with emphasis on the word "little". Starting at 12'-6" is one thing but you lose what, 3' of that to the foredeck and another 3' to the transom rake/mizzen area? Subtract some of the beam for those side decks too and you have a pretty small cockpit, a nice single-hander but I think two adults would be a tight fit. I like small boats, I have two that are 14' long, one open (Flapjack Skiff) the other partially decked (Deer Isle Koster) the Flapjack, while smaller in all dimensions other than length than the Koster has a lot more useable space.

    Given the opportunity I wouldn't turn down dinking around in one for a weekend, but between the foredeck, mizzen and centerboard I think it would get cramped pretty fast.
    Steve

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    Default Re: CLC Nanoship 12'6" water ballasted self righting cruising dinghy

    I think the transom rake is a nice piece of styling that helps disguise the outboard that will probably be necessary for most owners.

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    Default Re: CLC Nanoship 12'6" water ballasted self righting cruising dinghy

    Steve I think it depends a lot on its beam. My Dongray Cormorant is the same length as this and 5'8" beam, with fore aft and side decks and less depth, 200 kg and 90 sqft. It can seat 4 fine though that would start to slow it down with the added displacement. The mizzen on this probably does reduce room lengthways, though there is a gain in foot room depth. One benefit of the arrangement is it enforces people to sit at the longitudinal centre of buoyancy in average conditions which is a good thing. Just saying.

    For an 85kg helmsman to build a single hander to hydrodynamic perfection in a 20ft space, it would be 19'8" lwl, 33.5 inches bwl, hull weight 40kg, total displacement 125kg at dwl. Those are the numbers to sit at optimum with a slenderness ratio of 12 and allows you to sail into semi displacement speeds without a hump restriction.

    In actuality resistance doesn't increase that much below a slenderness ratio of 7, so if we want a boat rather than a canoe, build it Occume to a weight of 65kg, with a helm of 85kg, all up 150kg, then that length gives us 12ft 2". This is why light singlehanders work well at 12 feet. Below this wave resistance is getting excessive, above 20ft 11" (for 65kg boat) wetted area is getting an issue, for this range of light displacement to get beyond hull speed. And i'm forgetting planing boats...

    Extrapolate further and a Sooty Tern at say 215 kg plus 85kg helm is hydrodynamically optimum at lwl of 26'5". There are other issue like ability to carry sail to propelled it sufficiently etc, that will influence matters.

    Anyhow, unless your in a sailing canoe, one up, your running hydrodynamicaly sub optimally on anything under 20ft, so most monohull boats come with a speed restrictor in the name of a desired attribute. Just saying.

    Ed
    Last edited by keyhavenpotterer; 01-06-2015 at 02:35 PM.

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    Default Re: CLC Nanoship 12'6" water ballasted self righting cruising dinghy

    It would be good to see a graph of length against displacement etc of self righting boats.

    If our start point is self righting, then this may be the lightest self righting boat available in materials for all we know. If you pull it longer for instance, its inverted stability will increase and you would have to increase the depth or ballast righting lever to keep it the same.

    So you can form an argument that if your looking at self righting boats, she is (probably) light displacement in absolute terms. Compared to say a Haven 12.5, also 12.5 dwl, 133 sq ft and weighs 700kg at dwl, she might weigh less in relative terms for her type.

    Maybe that's her bag: the French work boat less snooty alternative to a Haven 12.5.
    Last edited by keyhavenpotterer; 01-06-2015 at 03:27 PM.

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    Default Re: CLC Nanoship 12'6" water ballasted self righting cruising dinghy

    Quote Originally Posted by Clarkey View Post
    I think the transom rake is a nice piece of styling that helps disguise the outboard that will probably be necessary for most owners.
    With that much rake it might be hard to mount an outboard without an additional bracket. Just another thing about this boat that makes it less than practical. It seems to me to be a very stable, tiny fantasy boat for kids of all ages. Absolutely nothing wrong with that if its what you want. I don't mean to sound nasty or deride the hard work of the designer who has gone to such effort to produce the plan. I realize how easy it can be to get excited about a design like this but that's not the same as a commitment to actually build one. It might make my shortlist but wouldn't make the cut compared to a Scamp or even an Atkin Pocahontas.

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    Default Re: CLC Nanoship 12'6" water ballasted self righting cruising dinghy

    Slight thread drift here. Ed, your comments on optimum slenderness ratio are really interesting and worth exploring.

    "For an 85kg helmsman to build a single hander to hydrodynamic perfection in a 20ft space, it would be 19'8" lwl, 33.5 inches bwl, hull weight 40kg, total displacement 125kg at dwl. Those are the numbers to sit at optimum with a slenderness ratio of 12 and allows you to sail into semi displacement speeds without a hump restriction."

    so, this new 18' sailing canoe is very close to optimum, obviously with a better rig.

    http://www.mcgowanmarinedesign.com/18_Sailing_Canoe.html



    LOA 18'

    Beam 37"

    Depth Amidships 16.5"

    Approx weight (sailing) 70 lbs

    Sail Area 51 sq ft.


    Brian
    Last edited by keyhavenpotterer; 01-06-2015 at 03:38 PM.

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    Default Re: CLC Nanoship 12'6" water ballasted self righting cruising dinghy

    Quote Originally Posted by JimD View Post
    With that much rake it might be hard to mount an outboard without an additional bracket. Just another thing about this boat that makes it less than practical. It seems to me to be a very stable, tiny fantasy boat for kids of all ages. Absolutely nothing wrong with that if its what you want. I don't mean to sound nasty or deride the hard work of the designer who has gone to such effort to produce the plan. I realize how easy it can be to get excited about a design like this but that's not the same as a commitment to actually build one. It might make my shortlist but wouldn't make the cut compared to a Scamp or even an Atkin Pocahontas.
    There are some other views available showing a substantial cut-out in the transom that would enable a small outboard to operate and tilt with no problems:



    Last edited by Clarkey; 01-06-2015 at 04:23 PM.

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    Default Re: CLC Nanoship 12'6" water ballasted self righting cruising dinghy

    keyhavenpotter wrote:

    "I was just wanting to point out that for people, like say Howard, who apporach sailing more like rock climbing, her arrangement would potentially allow a fully stayed rig. If you were up for hopping Newfoundland to Greenland, to Iceland to Faroe to Shetland to Norway, and you'd resolved that doing it in 12ft'er would be the most rewarding and best option, then that's significant. Reduction in mast scantling and windage is just a bonus on offer, down that avenue."

    Curious about the rock climbing analogy.......can you clarify? Do you imply that sailing small is akin to rock climbing or that my take on sailing small is? I do aspire to sailing small boats (generally under 30ft loa) that have comfort very close to the top of the performance criteria list. Comfort is very important for historically we know boats often outlast sailors when the going gets long or rough. Me I wouldn't want a fully stayed rig for such an ambitious voyage.
    Thanks

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    Default Re: CLC Nanoship 12'6" water ballasted self righting cruising dinghy

    Quote Originally Posted by Clarkey View Post
    There are some other views available showing a substantial cut-out in the transom that would enable a small outboard to operate and tilt with no problems:
    Ah, I see. Thanks for pointing that out. In that case the extreme rake might be the only way to keep the motor inboard.

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    Default Re: CLC Nanoship 12'6" water ballasted self righting cruising dinghy

    With a motor on the centreline and a decent amount of mass from the water ballast this may be one of the smallest boats that can effectively motorsail - one of the very best ways of making real progress in the waters around the UK when things kick up a bit.

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    Default Re: CLC Nanoship 12'6" water ballasted self righting cruising dinghy

    Yeah but what happens in a following sea?

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    Default Re: CLC Nanoship 12'6" water ballasted self righting cruising dinghy

    Quote Originally Posted by trent hink View Post
    Yeah but what happens in a following sea?
    Nothing special I would imagine? The effective transom height would be the same as any other small boat with an outboard.

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    Default Re: CLC Nanoship 12'6" water ballasted self righting cruising dinghy

    Thought I should let John know NanoShip was on the forum. Here's his reply

    >>>>NanoShip has the look of our South Coast UK beach fishing boats>>
    Just what I was going for, yes!
    This is supposed to be a comfortable, compact daysailer or camp-cruiser with a self-bailing cockpit. Fun to sail but with enough water ballast to make it a truly solid platform.
    While a card-carrying sail-and-oar man myself, I am in the tiniest minority. Going back twenty years, 80% of the questions I get about any given sailing design is...whether an engine can be fitted. It. Is. Just. What. People. Want. We purists can howl at the moon for sailing qualities and auxiliary oar power, but...They! Want! An! Engine!
    So my goal with this design was the neatest possible integration of a motor well for a little 2hp four-stroke. The steeply-raked transom hides the engine nicely. Looks good with the plumb stem, like British or Breton beach lugger.
    >>> Very interesting reactions to NanoShip on the Wooden Boat Forum.>>
    Oh, lord, it's found its way there? I haven't the nerve to look. I did track down a plan & elevation view with more detail.





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    Default Re: CLC Nanoship 12'6" water ballasted self righting cruising dinghy

    Quote Originally Posted by stromborg View Post


    She is a cute little boat, with emphasis on the word "little". Starting at 12'-6" is one thing but you lose what, 3' of that to the foredeck and another 3' to the transom rake/mizzen area? Subtract some of the beam for those side decks too and you have a pretty small cockpit, a nice single-hander but I think two adults would be a tight fit....

    Given the opportunity I wouldn't turn down dinking around in one for a weekend, but between the foredeck, mizzen and centerboard I think it would get cramped pretty fast.
    Exactly, and why I suggested earlier it needs to be stretched ~4'. On my Skerry the volume lost to the pointy stern was more than I expected.
    A 16' version of this boat would catch my undivided attention. It sure looks good with the dodger in the image posted earlier.
    I would like to see a version with just main & mizzen for simplicity.
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    Default Re: CLC Nanoship 12'6" water ballasted self righting cruising dinghy

    Quote Originally Posted by Autonomous View Post
    Exactly, and why I suggested earlier it needs to be stretched ~4'. On my Skerry the volume lost to the pointy stern was more than I expected.
    A 16' version of this boat would catch my undivided attention. It sure looks good with the dodger in the image posted earlier.
    I would like to see a version with just main & mizzen for simplicity.
    Disagree.
    Stretching this boat makes it into something it was not designed to be. The designers of Nanoship (and SCAMP too, I'm guessing) probably had the numbers right for self-bailing, self-righting, single-handing, with water ballast. I'm guilty of being obsessed with the stretching game too (Whilly Tern). Got over it. There is probably another design already out there. See Ebihen 15 from Vivier....or Tread Lightly from Welsford.

    Regarding...."I would like to see a version with just main & mizzen for simplicity."

    Again...why? That's not what this boat is. This boat is a cute mini version of UK/French boats that wisely understood the advantages of having three sails.
    Options, and control...don't you think?

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    Default Re: CLC Nanoship 12'6" water ballasted self righting cruising dinghy

    You do find a lot of interesting stuff Brian !


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    Default Re: CLC Nanoship 12'6" water ballasted self righting cruising dinghy

    Quote Originally Posted by boat fan View Post
    You do find a lot of interesting stuff Brian !

    Yes! I Agree!

    Brian/Ed (KHP) should receive a couple of free hats from WB.

    I love their posts and insight.
    Thanks!!!!!!!!

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    Default Re: CLC Nanoship 12'6" water ballasted self righting cruising dinghy

    Quote Originally Posted by keyhavenpotterer View Post
    Thought I should let John know NanoShip was on the forum. Here's his reply

    >>>>NanoShip has the look of our South Coast UK beach fishing boats>>
    Just what I was going for, yes!
    This is supposed to be a comfortable, compact daysailer or camp-cruiser with a self-bailing cockpit. Fun to sail but with enough water ballast to make it a truly solid platform.
    While a card-carrying sail-and-oar man myself, I am in the tiniest minority. Going back twenty years, 80% of the questions I get about any given sailing design is...whether an engine can be fitted. It. Is. Just. What. People. Want. We purists can howl at the moon for sailing qualities and auxiliary oar power, but...They! Want! An! Engine!
    So my goal with this design was the neatest possible integration of a motor well for a little 2hp four-stroke. The steeply-raked transom hides the engine nicely. Looks good with the plumb stem, like British or Breton beach lugger.
    >>> Very interesting reactions to NanoShip on the Wooden Boat Forum.>>
    Oh, lord, it's found its way there? I haven't the nerve to look. I did track down a plan & elevation view with more detail.




    Very interesting. Thanks for investigating and sharing.
    I'm guessing these "pocketships" are full of compromises.
    Howard brought up the issue of draft. SCAMP and Navigator will not have this problem...and will be able to cozy up to wildlife in shallow estuaries.
    Trailer design and launching might be a bit more difficult for this Nanoship.

    However, the depth helps footwell, comfort, weight...etc (already explained nicely above by KHP).
    The thrust from outboard cannot be vectored by the rudder...because it's aft of the rudder. Minor issue I think at this scale.

    Hull speed...?
    I'm still undecided and unconvinced with both this design and SCAMP.
    I have not seen any proof yet (video etc.) that shows boats of this length "in action"...or, should I say, sailing well and fast in a stiff breeze.
    Last edited by Gillig; 01-07-2015 at 02:57 AM.

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    Default Re: CLC Nanoship 12'6" water ballasted self righting cruising dinghy

    I think the words from the designer are the most important information on use; a self draining cockpit, stable platform and able to use an outboard. Just those 3 wants can compromise everything else that others may feel is important such as easy beachability and rowing performance. It is very much like a high sided Cormarant, and i believe that is a well regarded 12ft dinghy. I would find it hard to justify building a 12ft trailer sailer, when something 15ft could fit the same garage and probably the same trailer. But Nano-ship is waaaay more boat than your usual 12ft dinghy that you could carry on the roof of your car! I like it as it is, but for the same quantity in plywood, would probably build something longer and in the process probably loose the self righting ability and self draining cockpit as a trade off. Is this thing going into kit production or plans or still in development?

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    Default Re: CLC Nanoship 12'6" water ballasted self righting cruising dinghy

    Quote Originally Posted by Gillig View Post
    Disagree.
    Stretching this boat makes it into something it was not designed to be. The designers of Nanoship (and SCAMP too, I'm guessing) probably had the numbers right for self-bailing, self-righting, single-handing, with water ballast. I'm guilty of being obsessed with the stretching game too (Whilly Tern). Got over it. There is probably another design already out there. See Ebihen 15 from Vivier....or Tread Lightly from Welsford.

    Regarding...."I would like to see a version with just main & mizzen for simplicity."

    Again...why? That's not what this boat is. This boat is a cute mini version of UK/French boats that wisely understood the advantages of having three sails.
    Options, and control...don't you think?
    As stated earlier, I like the concept. A lot, actually. Secure cockpit and self rescuing to a degree make it an ideal boat to teach the grand kids to sail. Attractive, classic looks for Gramps. Last but not least CLC makes it easy for a guy like me to assemble a nice boat.
    The advantages of three sails are lost on a boat this small. With that hull I doubt the jib could really make it point higher.
    Cute may be right for others but it is too small for me. A simply rigged version 30% longer just might my next, last boat.
    Yes there are other designs but these are just my thoughts.
    ​​♦ During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act
    ♦ The further a society drifts from truth the more it will hate those who speak it
    ♦ If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear
    ♦ George Orwell

  32. #67
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    4,992

    Default Re: CLC Nanoship 12'6" water ballasted self righting cruising dinghy

    NanoShip is to be built at the Woodenboat Summer Boatbuilding School, and is slated for CLC's catalogue. Probably last thing available will be the building handbook. They are still working on the Outrigger Junior handbook.

    Unbelievably, these boats are not John's newest. That popped up yesterday and it is a brand new Dory built by Two Daughters Boatworks.

    Last edited by keyhavenpotterer; 01-07-2015 at 03:50 AM.

  33. #68
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    4,992

    Default Re: CLC Nanoship 12'6" water ballasted self righting cruising dinghy

    Ed and I have a Cormorant dinghy which we keep at Keyhaven. Although just 12' long, the same as the local Scows, she is a much bigger boat, much more stable, much more of a sit in boat not a sit on boat. Many were built by Cornish boat builders. Her only issue is that at 350lbs she is too,heavy for many singlehanders to pull out of the water on her trolley. Many UK sailors sail from a dinghy park so do not use a car to pull the boat out. It is a lovely boat, read more here
    http://councill.home.mindspring.com/...mor/corm1.html

    NanoShip is a deeper version, deeper inside and deeper drafted, so will not work well in our very shallow salt marshes, but will be very safe and secure when out in the Solent in our rough short steep waves. As I said before, superb with the grand kids on board, in the same way as Scamp.

    Since most home boat builders, just about every one of them I know, sail off a car pulled trailer, then all the builder has to do locally is launch at Lymington, just a few miles away, where the deep constant water with large concrete launch ramp is available. No very shallow problems and then straight out into the Solent where she will be safe and great fun. A self righting dinghy, yet still light when empty, with a good outboard set up will be popular and especially so in the right waters, such as Lymington and the Solent.

    designs like the Cormorant, Scamp and NanoShip are much bigger and roomier than their lightweight 12' cousins. A good example is Vivier's Ilur which is huge when you see her in real life, and impossible to believe she is just 14' odd long.

    Brian

  34. #69
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    St. Augustine, FL
    Posts
    3,483

    Default Re: CLC Nanoship 12'6" water ballasted self righting cruising dinghy

    One of my all time favorite cars was a 1978 Toyota Corolla coupe. It has a 1.3 liter engine, a smooth five-speed manual transmission, rear wheel drive and seating for five. What was truly amazing about the car was how little it was on the outside and how big it was on the inside. It had no problem going interstate speeds with me and four of my friends aboard.

    These "big" twelve footers are kind of like that Corolla very capable for their length, size and cost. What I especially like about this John Harris boat is that it has its own distinct style about it. It's different enough from my SCAMP that I wonder what it would be like to sail. It has its own distinct flavor of a very capable twelve footer. Seems like a perfect boat for a grandparent to teach a couple of grandkids about sailing. If you need more speed, get a longer boat. If you need a motor, Nanoship has provision for that (but doesn't it need a long shaft motor)?

    It takes a certain amount of bravery to design a boat like Nanoship and for that, John Harris, I applaud you!

  35. #70
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Pohnpei, Micronesia and Michigan, USA
    Posts
    755

    Default Re: CLC Nanoship 12'6" water ballasted self righting cruising dinghy

    Quote Originally Posted by Gillig View Post
    Very interesting. Thanks for investigating and sharing.
    I'm guessing these "pocketships" are full of compromises.
    Howard brought up the issue of draft. SCAMP and Navigator will not have this problem...and will be able to cozy up to wildlife in shallow estuaries.
    Trailer design and launching might be a bit more difficult for this Nanoship.

    However, the depth helps footwell, comfort, weight...etc (already explained nicely above by KHP).
    The thrust from outboard cannot be vectored by the rudder...because it's aft of the rudder. Minor issue I think at this scale.

    Hull speed...?
    I'm still undecided and unconvinced with both this design and SCAMP.
    I have not seen any proof yet (video etc.) that shows boats of this length "in action"...or, should I say, sailing well and fast in a stiff breeze.
    Not a heavy air sailing video but an example of an under 12 footer sailing well.

    Not meaning to detract from the Nanoship thread here but thought these images might help dispel any notions that small well conceived boats do sail well. I happen to think Nano will be a capable sailor. Here are a few examples to ponder.

    and a photo of SCAMP in 29-32 knots of wind, this was loads of fun
    [IMG][/IMG]
    [IMG][/IMG]
    [IMG][/IMG]
    Last edited by Howard Rice; 01-07-2015 at 10:50 AM.

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