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Thread: Argie 15 with balanced lug build in Vancouver, BC

  1. #36
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    Default Re: Argie 15 - start of a very slow build

    I have to keep reminding myself to slow down and think. This time I almost forgot to score the bottom panel where it bends to meet the V of the transom. Scoring turned out to be a little difficult so I used a 1/8 core box bit in my trim router and set to to 3/16 and cut the line that way instead. Hope it works out OK when I get to the actual joining of the transom.


  2. #37
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    Default Re: Argie 15 - start of a very slow build

    Looking good. Progress is always rewarding. It'll be fine I'm sure.

  3. #38
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    Default Re: Argie 15 - start of a very slow build

    That Payson joint turned out nicely. Smart approach to scoring the line with the router. I was so afraid I was going to slip and cut myself severely with the box cutter as I tried to score progressively deeper into the panel. Do you think a builder could use a circular saw with a carefully placed fence and just 1/8" of the blade protruding from the shoe?

  4. #39
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    Default Re: Argie 15 - start of a very slow build

    I think a circular saw could do it. However, if it were me, I'd try several cuts on scrap before it got anywhere near my boat. Sharp objects attached to motors scare me. Did you notice that I even cut out the planks with a hand saw?

  5. #40
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    Default Re: Argie 15 - start of a very slow build

    Ready to start stitching it all together. Any words of wisdom before I start (other than slow down and think!).




  6. #41
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    Default Re: Argie 15 - start of a very slow build

    Ready to start stitching it all together. Any words of wisdom before I start (other than slow down and think!).




  7. #42
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    Default Re: Argie 15 - start of a very slow build

    Marvelous precision on the fitting of the panels at the bow. I see you marked off the knuckle like the builders of Kuraku. I wish I'd known that trick. Do you have someone who can help you with the panels while you stitch them?
    Last edited by capefox; 07-09-2015 at 10:42 PM.

  8. #43
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    Default Re: Argie 15 - start of a very slow build

    I really can't claim to have any special precision or expertise. Dudley's full size patterns make everything easy. If anyone else is thinking of building an Argie 15 they would be well advised to buy the patterns along with the plans.

    My stitching assistant is duct tape!!!
    Last edited by Roy Morford; 07-09-2015 at 11:25 PM.

  9. #44
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    Default Re: Argie 15 - start of a very slow build

    I used mostly cable ties rather than copper wire (that was still in my packing!). It worked well for me. You might want to consider slight bevelling of the edges to improve contact area - this reduces slippage and makes it easier to end up with a fair join. I think it is Devlin stitch and glue video http://www.devlinboat.com/stitchandglue.php or Warren Messer http://duckworksbbs.com/plans/messer/index.htm that show this, but both sites will lead you to great videos to follow and help you with ideas to complete the stitching/gluing as well as possible. If done well, you will have less fairing down the road......

    I tacked together the seams with epoxy/cabosil between stitches, then remove the cable ties before doing the fillets proper. I kept checkin that boat was level and square throughout (measure level across the beam in several areas, also measure from bow to each transom corner and set up a midline string (I used fishing line) so you can sight down this and/or drop a perpendicular to see if it meets midline on lower panel. I marked and kept marked the midline throughout build inside and out. It is surprising how often this helps!

  10. #45
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    Default Re: Argie 15 - start of a very slow build

    Good advice Peter and thanks for the links.

  11. #46
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    Default Re: Argie 15 - start of a very slow build

    John Meachen sent me the following image while I was building the Argie 15 in 2013. I didn't quite appreciate why beveling the edges of panels was a big deal until much later. There are some areas on the Argie 15 where the panels meet at an oblique angle (chines near the bow, for example), and the fiberglass tape tends to stand proud. Even with careful fairing the tape can still be detected subtly in some angles of light in these areas. Fortunately, if you bevel the edges of the panel slightly at these intersections before you assemble them, the tape can essentially disappear into the chine and the edges will be flush. The Invisible Payson joint follows this logic.


  12. #47
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    Default Re: Argie 15 - start of a very slow build

    There is one argument to be made for beveling the panel edges. It makes it much easier to align the panels when stitching as sharp edges tend to slip past each other when stitching but beveled edges will mate. You don't need to fully bevel them, just knock off the sharp corners where the panel meet with a pass or two of a hand plane. People talk about the amount of time they spent aligning when stitching panels together. I spent a few minutes as the panels pulled themselves into alignment and stayed there.

  13. #48
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    Default Re: Argie 15 - start of a very slow build

    Good point as well re tape edge issue, but the bevel for the panel alignment is on the cut surface of the panels about 1/2 way across the panel edge - the inner aspect of the cut edge (left and bottom side of the arrow showing filler on diagram above).

    To avoid the tape edge, and because my ply quality was a little suspect, I put one layer of glass over whole of the bottom, then a second layer overlapping this over the lower chine. This meant 2 layers of glass over the most vulnerable chine and middle joint, one layer over the other chine and the whole of the bottom. I still had to fair one edge where they overlapped, but not two. I think you can see what I mean on my own thread Argie 15 build in the Philippines.

  14. #49
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    Default Re: Argie 15 - start of a very slow build

    Dowels inside stitches for panel alignment

    I really hope I'm not giving too much unsolicited input, but I felt the following input I received from someone a year or two ago could really help with panel alignment. I wish I'd used it. West advocates the use of dowels on the inside of the joint. I seem to recall Devlin mentioning them in his book too. Visit http://www.westsystem.com/ss/assets/Uploads/dowels.pdf.
    Last edited by capefox; 07-10-2015 at 03:57 PM.

  15. #50
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    Default Re: Argie 15 - start of a very slow build

    So much good advice here. Thanks - I shall be using some of these tips for sure on my build.

    This website also has some really great videos on all subjects boating, including construction, repairs renovation etc.

    http://offcenterharbor.com/
    Last edited by Roy Morford; 07-10-2015 at 12:50 PM.

  16. #51
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    Default Re: Argie 15 - start of a very slow build

    I've been looking at lots of videos and one idea I'm using (I forget which video it was) is for drilling the holes. I made a small template from a short piece of 3/4 X 3/4 with holes in the centre (3/8 from each edge) 4 inches apart. I place the template level with the edge of the plank, drill a hole through the predrilled hole of the template into the plank, spin the wood on the drill before I take the drill out then drill through the hole at the other end. All the holes are then 3/8 from the edge and 4 inches apart. For the bow area I'll put stitches much closer together. That took longer to describe than it does to do it but I hope you get the idea.

  17. #52
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    Default Re: Argie 15 - start of a very slow build

    Last night nothing was going right. Solution - a glass of red wine.

    This morning everything went as planned and this is where I stand now.


  18. #53
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    Default Re: Argie 15 - start of a very slow build

    Hi Rory

    The midline score halfway through the bottom panel should be on the underside of the panel. I am not sure from your picture if you have done the top side? Maybe I misinterpreted the plans, or I have misread your photo?

  19. #54
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    Default Re: Argie 15 - start of a very slow build

    Hi Peter,

    Good spot but it's not a mistake. I cut the score into the top side deliberately. I used a small router bit set to 3/16 so there is only 1/16 or one ply left at that point and bends quite easily.

    Today I'll be stitching on the top planks and have made a couple of small jigs to hold everything in place while I install the stitches as I'm working solo. If it works I'll take a picture in case others might want to do the same.

  20. #55
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    Default Re: Argie 15 - start of a very slow build

    Phew. That is a relief! Thought the red wine had come back to haunt you and you were going to have to unpick the joins (or turn it over if the ply is double A side!!)

  21. #56
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    Default Re: Argie 15 - start of a very slow build

    No worries about the red wine. Good Australian cabernet shiraz.

    It's now 2pm on Sunday and I just finished stitching on the upper planks. My neat little jigs to hold the planks while I stitched didn't work so went with some ropes and pulleys that would make Heath Robinson proud. Next I'll stitch on my temporary transom, put in some spreader bars, check for plumb and level and then start tacking between the stitches with epoxy. Did I forget anything? Progress so far.


  22. #57
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    Default Re: Argie 15 - start of a very slow build

    Looks way neater than mine at the same stage (or any stage after come to that!). Keep up the excellent work!

  23. #58
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    Default Re: Argie 15 - start of a very slow build

    What kind of ties did you end up using? If you used steel re-bar tie-wire like I did, please bend the edges in. I looked like Edward Scissorhands had roughed me up after accidentally bumping into a number of them with my hands, arms, neck, and face. Your precisely spaced ties look capital.

  24. #59
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    Default Re: Argie 15 - start of a very slow build

    Thanks for the kind words Peter but trust me, photographs do lie, it all depends where I stand when I take the picture.

    Capefox, I used copper wires and I too look like I've been fighting with a horde of cats!

    Today's job will be to wire in the temporary transom and then get things properly aligned. I may even have to do some paying work today!

  25. #60
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    Default Re: Argie 15 - start of a very slow build

    So much for your promise of a "slow build" -- things are moving along nicely now.
    Last edited by capefox; 07-13-2015 at 03:15 PM.

  26. #61
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    Default Re: Argie 15 - start of a very slow build

    Quote Originally Posted by capefox View Post
    So much for your promise of a "slow build"
    OK, make that a slow start. However, as all stitch and glue builders know, this is just the beginning and the slow stuff starts here.

    I have the temporary transom wired in and everything appears to level plumb, square and true. I'll check at least a dozen more times before I start to glue the seams with epoxy though. Here's a photo of progress so far.

    Last edited by Roy Morford; 07-13-2015 at 06:21 PM.

  27. #62
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    Default Re: Argie 15 - start of a very slow build

    I find it hard to believe but, when I checked yesterday morning that everything was properly lined up, I found that it wasn't! I spent some time getting it right again and left it overnight a second time. This morning just out a little. Heat? Humidity? Who knows.

    Anyway, I got it sorted out and started putting small tabs of epoxy between the stitches on one side. Had to stop because bending over to reach the lower seam is not kind to old backs. I'll get back to it tomorrow (after checking once again for plumb and level). No pictures I'm afraid - my camera chose to take the day off.
    Last edited by Roy Morford; 07-15-2015 at 04:52 PM.

  28. #63
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    Default Re: Argie 15 - start of a very slow build

    I look forward to your posts. It's like watching a flower bloom or a butterfly hatch. I suspect the boat pulled itself out of alignment. Those panels are under some stress and unless the form is properly braced it can pull itself askew. Everything looks amazing. If I had a time machine, I'd buy the full-size templates for sure. They can save days -- if not weeks -- apparently. :-)

  29. #64
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    Default Re: Argie 15 - start of a very slow build

    One small step at a time. Today I tabbed the seams on the port side as far as I could reach without actually stepping inside the boat. I'll do the remainder tomorrow after today's tabs are hard. I've clamped 3/4 square pieces to the outside of the gunwales to help retain a good shape while I'm "tabbing". Later, these pieces will be the seat supports inside. Today's progress (by the way - nothing wrong with the camera, it was me again not thinking. I'd left the memory card in my laptop!)


  30. #65
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    Default Re: Argie 15 - start of a very slow build

    Where did you get the idea to clamp on temporary gunwales while epoxy tab welding? Ingenious, really!

  31. #66
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    Default Re: Argie 15 - start of a very slow build

    Actually you gave me the idea in your build thread at post #132. You used a batten to stiffen the bulkhead while fitting it. Doing it on the gunwales was a natural extension because the panels are pretty floppy without some sort of support.

  32. #67
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    Default Re: Argie 15 - start of a very slow build

    Finished the "tabbing" today and also screwed the temporary outer gunwale in place so that I could remove the clamps. Tomorrow I'll remove the stitches one seam at a time and add glass tape over a new, larger fillet. The hull is already much stiffer. Double and triple checked the plumb and level and everything still looks good. I'm really liking how this boat looks.

  33. #68
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    Default Re: Argie 15 - start of a very slow build

    A little progress today before I ran out of filler. I've taped the two upper seams as far as the join in the plank.



    Not much to do until tomorrow when I can buy some more supplies.

  34. #69
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    Default Re: Argie 15 - start of a very slow build

    Finished taping the forward part of the upper seam. Tomorrow I can start taping the seam between the floor and the lower plank. Probably two days work there and then I can start adding the various inside components, starting with the bow tank. Or maybe I'll install the real transom in place of the temporary one. Stay tuned.

    No pictures today. Watching taping is a little like watching paint dry!

  35. #70
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    Default Re: Argie 15 - start of a very slow build

    A good day. I finished taping the inside seams. Tomorrow I have to actually do some work work so I probably won't get any more done before the weekend. Next jobs include scraping the tape edges, a little sanding and a second coat of epoxy. I will have to move the temporary gunwale to its proper place as the stringer/support for the seats and thwarts and then I can start working on the bulkheads.

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