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Thread: Argie 15 with balanced lug build in Vancouver, BC

  1. #1
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    Default Argie 15 with balanced lug build in Vancouver, BC

    Although the real construction won't start until spring, I had some time on my hands this morning and cut out a template for the transom using some leftover door skin. I've modified the top of the transom as I like curves. Dudley, I hope you're not too offended.


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    Default Re: Argie 15 - start of a very slow build

    The curved transom top looks nice. Wish I'd though of that! :-) I'm glad to see YOUR Argie 15 build starting to come to life.

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    Default Re: Argie 15 - start of a very slow build

    This is why I'm expecting (hoping) to start building my Argie 15 in the spring.

    Over Christmas and the new year I built a bookshelf and a rolling kitchen island for a local non profit group. At home I completely re-grouted two bathrooms. I just completed a rolling cart/ tea trolley thing for my wife and next week I'll start work on replacing six lockers at the sailing club. Once all that is done I should be able to clear the workshop and actually start building a boat.

    Stay tuned.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Argie 15 - start of a very slow build

    Hi Roy

    The Argie 15 is really pretty and I am sure the curved transom will contribute to that. You will need to modify the rudder stock/tiller I guess for clearance. I have just joined the forum and am working out how to add my own thread as I am about 75% of the way through my build of an Argie 15. I have followed Capefox with interest.

    I chose to scarf the main panels. Unfortunately, the local plywood available, although "marine" was pretty poor quality and although nominally 5mm, was only 3 ply and nearer to 4mm. There were many voids too, so the ability to produce neat scarfs was a little reduced. As a result, I have some additional fairing around the scarf areas, but I still would go that route again. I scarfed 2 full sheets together x 2 and could still conform to the cutting plans despite the loss of 50mm or so for the scarf. Due to the poor ply quality, I have glassed the outside and inside with 6oz/epoxy. Other major change will be the rig. I will construct wooden spars and use a gaff rig. I was worried about this introducing too much weather helm and have moved the mast step and daggerboard case a fraction to reduce this (but then read Capefox had lee helm with his Argie!).

    Good luck with the build and I will try and sort out a thread for mine as soon as I can!

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    Default Re: Argie 15 - start of a very slow build

    Hi, PeterB and welcome to the Argie 15 Owners Club. Dix has sold more than 3,000 copies of plans for the Argie 15, and free copies have been published and republished in newspapers over the years, creating the possibility that hundreds of additional boats have been built from plans in the newspaper. One could reasonably assume at least 1,500 operational examples of this boat are out there.

    Please rest assured that my fears about lee helm were unfounded. As a newbie sailor we were improperly balanced and trimmed at times, and there was a bit of slop in our first improperly constructed rudder. Once we addressed those issues, no lee helm or weather helm was evident.

    I like the idea of a lug rig and wooden spars. In fact, I wish Dix would offer official the option for a lug rig like the one on his Challenger 13 model in the plans for builders who want a simpler rig. The sloop rig is great though.
    Last edited by capefox; 01-19-2015 at 09:22 AM.

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    Default Re: Argie 15 - start of a very slow build

    Hello Peter B and as Capefox says, welcome to the Argie 15 Owners Club (that has a nice ring to it). I would love to see pictures of your build and pick up more tips on what to do or not to do when I start my own build. Capefox has made a beautiful boat and his thread is really inspiring. Now just a few more projects to get out of the way and I'll be ready to start.

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    Default Re: Argie 15 - start of a very slow build

    Well, here we are almost a month later. Somewhere in my frenetic schedule I found time to cut out the inner transom. This will have an outer transom epoxied to it. Then It will gather dust for a while as other things reassert themselves.


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    Default Re: Argie 15 - start of a very slow build

    Very professional. How did you round the edges of the cutouts? An unrelated thought: wouldn't the Argie 15 look even more splendid with an extra chine and a gaff cutter rig?
    Last edited by capefox; 02-13-2015 at 12:02 AM.

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    Default Re: Argie 15 - start of a very slow build

    Neat solution to doubling the thickness of the transom where it needs it. I stuck to plan with the transom itself, but added a hardwood block in the aft tank to support the rudder fittings. The tank has been taped, and filleted, and an additional layer of 6oz glass/epoxy to line it (as have all the tanks). I have yet to add the hardwood piece mentioned in the plans above the tank, but as I am adding an inner gunwale along the sheer, will see what seems to integrate well with this.

    I will almost certainly use a gaff rig. My daggerboard case is 30mm aft from plan and the mast step 50mm forward of plan as I think there may be a tendency to introduce slight lee helm otherwise (I was probably not going to add a bowsprit). I have quite a few photos and will try to add my own build on this site ASAP. The build is overseas, so I get a few weeks each time during my holidays to build - so I might end up slower than yours!

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    Default Re: Argie 15 - start of a very slow build

    Hi Capefox, I used a hand held router with a 1/2 inch round over bit. I'll do a similar round over on the strake/transom edge once everything is joined together. That's another reason for the beefy transom - lot's of gluing surface area for the strakes even after rounding the corners. As for another chine, from everything I've read and seen, the Argie is a real looker and performer without having to add another chine. And, as you know, I'm in love with lug rigs.

    Hi Peter, I doubt your build will be slower than mine.
    I shall be making it with a lug rig and moving the mast (free standing) forward and the forward bulkhead back to support the mast. On my last boat I went overboard with a walnut transom and lots of walnut trim. This build will be much more a boat to enjoy sailing without as much upkeep.

    Looking forward to seeing your build thread.
    Last edited by Roy Morford; 02-13-2015 at 10:32 AM.

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    Default Re: Argie 15 - start of a very slow build

    Oops. The observant amongst you will realise I meant excessive weather helm.... Must stop typing before I wake up properly!

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    Default Re: Argie 15 - start of a very slow build

    Since I followed Capefox and his Argie 15 thread I figured I should get myself subscribed to this thread and watch as another one goes together.

    PeterB, if or when you start your own build thread it would be nice if you could post a link to it here just in case anyone interested misses it.

    Sea Dreams A.K.A. Brian

    EDIT: Here's PeterB's thread Argie 15 - build in the Philippines
    Last edited by Sea Dreams; 02-17-2015 at 09:32 AM. Reason: Add link

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    Default Re: Argie 15 - start of a very slow build

    The transom and transom doubler being joined. I believe a wise man once said you can never have too many clamps!


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    Default Re: Argie 15 - start of a very slow build

    Too many things happening right now and so progress will continue to be slow until at least the end of June. In the meantime I can do odd bits and pieces and so here is a pic of the walnut trim piece for the top of the transom that I just finished shaping. This is the outside and there's a similar piece for the inside. Once joined to the hull, which hasn't even been started yet, there will also be a capping piece. Gunwales will also be walnut.


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    Default Re: Argie 15 - start of a very slow build

    It is surprising how much time these "little pieces" take. Any that you can get done before the main hull build will definitely benefit. The hull build itself is fairly quick and to the observers, seems to be 90% done at that stage!......

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    Default Re: Argie 15 - start of a very slow build

    I think you're right Peter. I seem to recall someone saying that when your boat is 90% built there's only 90% left.

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    Default Re: Argie 15 - start of a very slow build

    So true! I came to appreciate that statement after I'd assembled the hull and most of the interior. I felt awfully relieved by what felt like the imminent completion of the project. And then I became a bit frustrated with the length of time it took to fair and paint the hull. Present me would say, "Relax and just have fun!" to past me.

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    Default Re: Argie 15 - start of a very slow build

    Quote Originally Posted by Roy Morford View Post
    I think you're right Peter. I seem to recall someone saying that when your boat is 90% built there's only 90% left.
    Absolutely true.

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    Default Re: Argie 15 - start of a very slow build

    I changed my mind. The transom is made (has been for some time) from laminated Baltic Birch plywood and I was planning to paint it. I've now decided I want a bright walnut finish instead. Rather than start over I've ripped and planed some walnut down to 1/8th and I'm now busy gluing it to the plywood with epoxy. So much for making this a basic sailboat. It will sail just the same but now it will be a little prettier, and heavier. I figure if I lose a few pounds it will all come out right in the end.

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    Default Re: Argie 15 - start of a very slow build

    I'm enjoying following along here Roy. Keep the piccies coming. How many boats have you built? The pictures of your last one are pretty impressive. I'm guessing you've worked with wood a few times before.

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    Default Re: Argie 15 - start of a very slow build

    At the rate I'm going I calculate this boat will be finished about five years after I die. But then I did promise a slow build. Here is the transom and walnut overlay finished with a couple of coats of varnish.


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    Default Re: Argie 15 - start of a very slow build

    And so it begins



    Marking out the floor. I'll join the two pieces with diagonally cut glass strips. Being just a little lazy I'll only do a Payson type joint on the outside. The inside of the join will be hidden under the stern seat.

    Stay tuned but don't hold your breath.

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    Default Re: Argie 15 - start of a very slow build

    I've always wondered what the paper templates look like. Well worth the money (a pittance really) by the looks of it. Can you post photos of how you did your Invisible Payson joint? There's a unfortunate lack of photographic documentation of the process around.

  24. #24
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    Default Re: Argie 15 - start of a very slow build

    The paper templates are all on one long roll and once you've got the part you want flattened out It's a simple matter to mark it with pins, remove the pins and the roll, tap in nails where the pins were and use a long batten to draw the line. You can't cut the plan into pieces so you have to very careful not to tear or crease it (although I guess that's what Scotch tape is for).

    I'll take pictures as I do the Payson joint and post them.

    Next job, maybe tomorrow, is to cut out and join the two parts of the floor and then plane and sand to the line.

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    Default Re: Argie 15 - start of a very slow build

    Hi Capefox,

    I've been going through your build thread (again) and I've decided I will do as you did and use butt blocks for the inside of joints where they won't be seen. The top plank inside and all outside joints will definitely be glassed. I'm having second thoughts about the Payson joint though. Looking at some of the glassed joints on my rowboat and one of my kayaks I think I did a pretty good job with a scraper and sanding board and think I can do a fairly respectable job of blending in without possibly making a mess of what, for me at least, would be a new and untried technique.

  26. #26
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    Default Re: Argie 15 - start of a very slow build

    Floor panels cut, planed, sanded and joined. That was the easy part.



    Next I have to cut and join the garboard strakes. This will have to wait until next week as it will be a busy weekend.

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    Default Re: Argie 15 - start of a very slow build

    Nicely done!

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    Default Re: Argie 15 - start of a very slow build

    Darn, darn, darn!!!! I need to slow down and think. I knew something didn't look quite right and I just figured it out. I cut the floor starting at the wrong end of the sheet of plywood and now my join is way too far back and will be on view in the cockpit instead of being hidden under the seat. I'm now seriously thinking of floorboards.

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    Default Re: Argie 15 - start of a very slow build

    I wasn't laying awake all night but my mistake was bothering me. This morning I did some measurements and it's maybe not so bad after all. I plan to build with a lifting centreboard and my join will run close to the back end of the centreboard box. I have to install some sort of triangular reinforcement for the box anyway and, with a little ingenuity, I can make it look like the plywood reinforcing the floor joint is actually part of the triangle base. It might also be pretty close to where I'll have to put some sort of foot rests for rowing.

    So, onwards and upwards while remembering to double and triple check everything before I do any more cutting. I've been butchering wood for long enough so how come I haven't learned that already?

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    Default Re: Argie 15 - start of a very slow build

    If you intend to paint the cockpit floor, you may wish to just take a chisel and sander and knock off the butt block. If you create a slight dished out gutter where the strap block was with the sander-you could do an invisible Payson joint on that side after all. Alternatively, just sand it flush with the panel and do a regular Payson joint. I fully sympathize with your frustration, but in hindsight it will be a non issue because people build boats from smaller than 4x8 panels with extra joints all the time. There's a Greek fellow who built his Argie 15 from 2 x 4 panels, using a couple of extra joints. Floor boards look great and have practical purposes but hiding a butt block isn't one in my lowly opinion. If you decide to remove the butt block, carefully and securely clamp the panels so that the taped joint on the other side is not stressedor damaged. You are doing well so far. Your build will turn out nicely.
    Last edited by capefox; 06-28-2015 at 02:11 AM.

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    Default Re: Argie 15 - start of a very slow build

    Thanks for the advice and encouragement Capefox. I'm not sure what I'll do at this stage other than go ahead as far as getting everything stitched together. At that point and I can measure exactly where the centreboard box will be and then make a decision. I only used 1/8 ply for the butt block so it may not be an issue at all.

  32. #32
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    Default Re: Argie 15 - start of a very slow build

    The almost obligatory pic of plywood being cut. Nothing really exciting except that I wanted to show the saw I'm using. I see people on other build threads worrying over the best way to cut out patterns from plywood including the use of small circular saws (scary). I have to say this little saw is a wonder. It's a basic Japanese utility saw from Lee Valley although I'm sure you can also buy it elsewhere. It cuts very quickly and I can easily cut to within a millimetre of the line and just clean up afterwards with a block plane. It's also cheap and you can buy replacement blades that just click into the (non wood) handle.



    That's one plank down, three to go. The bottom is already cut so I should be able to start stitching next week.

  33. #33
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    Default Re: Argie 15 - start of a very slow build

    All planks are now cut, planed and sanded with port and starboard planks finished together for a perfect match. I'll start joining the plank halves tomorrow and should be in a position to start stitching it all into a hull next week. This is the quick and easy part. Once the basic hull is made it will be much slower. No pics this time.

  34. #34
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    Default Re: Argie 15 - start of a very slow build

    With the advice and guidance of our resident Argie 15 master builder, Capefox, I've removed the plywood butt block on the floor where it would be in plain view and also provide a small dam for water to accumulate. Chisels, a block plane and a 40 grit sanding disc worked wonders. I've now glassed the seam and it's under a weighted piece of mylar to give a smooth finish surface and minimize scraping and sanding later. I'll let you know how that turns out.

  35. #35
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    Default Re: Argie 15 - start of a very slow build

    I had the same dilemma with the joins. In the end, I scarfed together 2 sheets of plywood ( x 3) to make 3 x 8 foot lengths, then marked out and cut the long panels from these. Just personal preference and my scarf joints were far from ideal.....

    I decided on a daggerboard, but did re-enforce the aft part of the case with a triangular piece. I also extended the top of the daggerboard case to place the mainsheet jammer on (part of the reason for the re-enforcement). I am sure if your join is near the centreboard case in your Argie, you will be able to do something similar (but probably much more professional) than my addition.

    I am back in the Philippines in 5 weeks and hope to have a bit of time on this trip to get my Argie a little further on!

    Good luck with your build. Certainly has a touch of quality about it so far.

  36. #36
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    Default Re: Argie 15 - start of a very slow build

    I have to keep reminding myself to slow down and think. This time I almost forgot to score the bottom panel where it bends to meet the V of the transom. Scoring turned out to be a little difficult so I used a 1/8 core box bit in my trim router and set to to 3/16 and cut the line that way instead. Hope it works out OK when I get to the actual joining of the transom.


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    Default Re: Argie 15 - start of a very slow build

    Looking good. Progress is always rewarding. It'll be fine I'm sure.

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    Default Re: Argie 15 - start of a very slow build

    That Payson joint turned out nicely. Smart approach to scoring the line with the router. I was so afraid I was going to slip and cut myself severely with the box cutter as I tried to score progressively deeper into the panel. Do you think a builder could use a circular saw with a carefully placed fence and just 1/8" of the blade protruding from the shoe?

  39. #39
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    Default Re: Argie 15 - start of a very slow build

    I think a circular saw could do it. However, if it were me, I'd try several cuts on scrap before it got anywhere near my boat. Sharp objects attached to motors scare me. Did you notice that I even cut out the planks with a hand saw?

  40. #40
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    Default Re: Argie 15 - start of a very slow build

    Ready to start stitching it all together. Any words of wisdom before I start (other than slow down and think!).




  41. #41
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    Default Re: Argie 15 - start of a very slow build

    Ready to start stitching it all together. Any words of wisdom before I start (other than slow down and think!).




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    Default Re: Argie 15 - start of a very slow build

    Marvelous precision on the fitting of the panels at the bow. I see you marked off the knuckle like the builders of Kuraku. I wish I'd known that trick. Do you have someone who can help you with the panels while you stitch them?
    Last edited by capefox; 07-09-2015 at 11:42 PM.

  43. #43
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    Default Re: Argie 15 - start of a very slow build

    I really can't claim to have any special precision or expertise. Dudley's full size patterns make everything easy. If anyone else is thinking of building an Argie 15 they would be well advised to buy the patterns along with the plans.

    My stitching assistant is duct tape!!!
    Last edited by Roy Morford; 07-10-2015 at 12:25 AM.

  44. #44
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    Default Re: Argie 15 - start of a very slow build

    I used mostly cable ties rather than copper wire (that was still in my packing!). It worked well for me. You might want to consider slight bevelling of the edges to improve contact area - this reduces slippage and makes it easier to end up with a fair join. I think it is Devlin stitch and glue video http://www.devlinboat.com/stitchandglue.php or Warren Messer http://duckworksbbs.com/plans/messer/index.htm that show this, but both sites will lead you to great videos to follow and help you with ideas to complete the stitching/gluing as well as possible. If done well, you will have less fairing down the road......

    I tacked together the seams with epoxy/cabosil between stitches, then remove the cable ties before doing the fillets proper. I kept checkin that boat was level and square throughout (measure level across the beam in several areas, also measure from bow to each transom corner and set up a midline string (I used fishing line) so you can sight down this and/or drop a perpendicular to see if it meets midline on lower panel. I marked and kept marked the midline throughout build inside and out. It is surprising how often this helps!

  45. #45
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    Default Re: Argie 15 - start of a very slow build

    Good advice Peter and thanks for the links.

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    Default Re: Argie 15 - start of a very slow build

    John Meachen sent me the following image while I was building the Argie 15 in 2013. I didn't quite appreciate why beveling the edges of panels was a big deal until much later. There are some areas on the Argie 15 where the panels meet at an oblique angle (chines near the bow, for example), and the fiberglass tape tends to stand proud. Even with careful fairing the tape can still be detected subtly in some angles of light in these areas. Fortunately, if you bevel the edges of the panel slightly at these intersections before you assemble them, the tape can essentially disappear into the chine and the edges will be flush. The Invisible Payson joint follows this logic.


  47. #47
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    Default Re: Argie 15 - start of a very slow build

    There is one argument to be made for beveling the panel edges. It makes it much easier to align the panels when stitching as sharp edges tend to slip past each other when stitching but beveled edges will mate. You don't need to fully bevel them, just knock off the sharp corners where the panel meet with a pass or two of a hand plane. People talk about the amount of time they spent aligning when stitching panels together. I spent a few minutes as the panels pulled themselves into alignment and stayed there.

  48. #48
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    Default Re: Argie 15 - start of a very slow build

    Good point as well re tape edge issue, but the bevel for the panel alignment is on the cut surface of the panels about 1/2 way across the panel edge - the inner aspect of the cut edge (left and bottom side of the arrow showing filler on diagram above).

    To avoid the tape edge, and because my ply quality was a little suspect, I put one layer of glass over whole of the bottom, then a second layer overlapping this over the lower chine. This meant 2 layers of glass over the most vulnerable chine and middle joint, one layer over the other chine and the whole of the bottom. I still had to fair one edge where they overlapped, but not two. I think you can see what I mean on my own thread Argie 15 build in the Philippines.

  49. #49
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    Default Re: Argie 15 - start of a very slow build

    Dowels inside stitches for panel alignment

    I really hope I'm not giving too much unsolicited input, but I felt the following input I received from someone a year or two ago could really help with panel alignment. I wish I'd used it. West advocates the use of dowels on the inside of the joint. I seem to recall Devlin mentioning them in his book too. Visit http://www.westsystem.com/ss/assets/Uploads/dowels.pdf.
    Last edited by capefox; 07-10-2015 at 04:57 PM.

  50. #50
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    Default Re: Argie 15 - start of a very slow build

    So much good advice here. Thanks - I shall be using some of these tips for sure on my build.

    This website also has some really great videos on all subjects boating, including construction, repairs renovation etc.

    http://offcenterharbor.com/
    Last edited by Roy Morford; 07-10-2015 at 01:50 PM.

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