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Thread: Gartside 170

  1. #71
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    Default Re: Gartside 170

    Only saw this thread today, have had a great time reading through it though. Thank you for putting it all up, I imagine it's quite a bit of work. Beautiful work, too - she'll be a hell of a small cruiser when you're done!

  2. #72
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    Default Re: Gartside 170

    Andrew, I suspect you're right about hull stiffening. Gartside shows substantial fillets for the shelf so it seems to be there for more than storage. In a similar fashion, he has the outer floor slats bonded to the hull. Fredrik it is coincidental that you ask about interior color. I am trying to come up with a plan such that some of the painting on the interior bits might happen on the bench prior to installation. I want to avoid some of the "dark cave" atmosphere inherent in some small cruisers. Painting the hull laminate is strongly discouraged by the Gougeon brothers for aesthetic reasons and perhaps a case can be made that hull interior painting might conceal a structural problem. It was intriguing to see the interior of Companera in the latest issue of WoodenBoat (#250, pg. 62). Alas, someone is using bright colors. W'ell probably end up choosing much more boring paint, leaving the color additions to the curtains and cushions.

  3. #73
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    Default Re: Gartside 170

    I'm asking this from complete ignorance...

    In message #62 you said;
    > ...the board will be faired and then covered with 6 oz. fiberglass and 4 oz. zynole.

    From what I've read, fiberglass and zynole shouldn't be used together. I assumed it was because the difference in flexibility would cause the fiberglass to fracture, which would then lead to delamination. Is there some particular way to use them together that doesn't have that problem, or is that only a problem on hull planking, while the solid centerboard won't flex enough to cause early failure? ...or have I completely misunderstood what I've read about not using the two together?

    regards,
    Joe
    These days, everything I do is just "puttering around"

  4. #74
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    Default Re: Gartside 170

    Good catch Joe and bad proof reading on my part. The centerboard and rudder will have a single layer of Xynole. I used the same cloth on the keel and deadwood.

  5. #75
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    Default Re: Gartside 170

    One of my challenges in building this boat has been to cipher the appropriate sequence of events. Gartside's plans are excellent, however there are no associated instructions. For example, I would like to postpone interior painting, however some components will be less accessible once built, yet these same area will be subject to drips, damage and so on. At any rate, since last posting I have scored all but 100 lbs of the lead ballast, I have drilled and counter-bored 21 holes for the keel bolts, I have mostly built out the midship area, I have completed the berth and midship soles, and have started the deck beams.



    I needlessly stewed about drilling keel bolt holes, worrying about my accuracy of free-handing the drill (especially for the holes angled 5 degrees on either side of the trunk. A couple of simple jigs and bob's your uncle.



    Both companionway steps will be hinged, the starboard side covering the portable toilet and the port side covering the cooler and water. Perhaps half the cherry trim is installed. The plastic laminate has a coating (Wilsonart -Aeon) that increases its wear and heat resistance.






  6. #76
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    Default Re: Gartside 170

    The outer edge of the berth sole is adhered to the floors and hull and serves as a structural member like the shelf above. The inner areas of the sole are removable.




    Here's the jig for determining the various arcs for the deck beams for a rate of 2" at 8'.






    The deck beams are not adhered and still need some final shaping a fitting.

  7. #77
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    Default Re: Gartside 170

    The gap between the fourth and sixth deck beam is where the hatch goes and must end up with a 19.75" square opening.



    This area below the shelf is to be covered with a 3/8" lining. The plans show these pieces attached directly to the hull. I have tried bending that sized board over the considerable curvature of the hull at this location and it will not be easy. Screwing the lining to the hull along with epoxy seems like the obvious choice. However, the hull is only 5/8" thick. Ideas?


  8. #78
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    Default Re: Gartside 170

    You've been really busy Bruce, well done looks a million$.
    With the lining I'm assuming you mean a ceiling. I wouldn't screw to hull personally. I'd probably set up some sort of timber clamped to the bulkheads for/aft and spring short timbers off it to the ceiling boards or from opposite side of hull.
    OR clamp a deck beam in and use a clamped pusher stick from it.
    Last edited by andrewpatrol; 07-16-2016 at 09:46 PM.

  9. #79
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    Default Re: Gartside 170

    Andrew, this picture shows a cross section of the lining. These boards run approximately 6.5 feet. Perhaps they could be steamed and held in place as they cooled. Gartside calls for cedar. My plan was to use cherry as I have a fair bit on hand. Perhaps the cherry would be easier to steam compared to cedar. This lining runs all the up from the berth to the chainplate backing.

  10. #80
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    Default Re: Gartside 170

    I would think only enough to keep a bunker off the inner hull while on one tack or the other would be plenty Bruce, and looking at that drawing your pusher sticks could go under opposite shelf , with perhaps a smaller tack at each end of plank to stop sliding with the goop. You could narrow down your 3/8 slats to say 2" to make them easier to bend or 1 1/2" even.
    cherry is a bit heavier than cedar isn't it? Perhaps a line of holes along each slat to reduce weight?

  11. #81
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    Default Re: Gartside 170

    Very good progress!

    Why not pre-bend the strips, let them dry and then glue them with epoxy once they are dry? I recommend one of the streamers that are used to remove wall papers, works perfekt!

    /Fredrik

  12. #82
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    Default Re: Gartside 170

    Could the ceiling battens run vertically, less bend ???

  13. #83
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    Default Re: Gartside 170

    How about gluing it on in 2 layers , 2 x 3/16'' ?
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  14. #84
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
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    Default Re: Gartside 170

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterSibley View Post
    How about gluing it on in 2 layers , 2 x 3/16'' ?
    Hello,

    I am new to this thread and gearing up(mostly courage) for a Gartside "Jessie", plan #113 build. Can you tell me what material you used for your lofting surface and mould stock?

    Very impressive build by the way .... probably will end up being a go-to reference for me ...that and emailing Mr. Gartside regularly!

    Thanks.

    Matt H.

  15. #85
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    Default Re: Gartside 170

    "Jessie" looks like a lot of fun. We have a similar boat, Oughtred's "Fulmar". For the lofting floor I used 6 sheets of 1/2" ply over a 2/4 frame plus an additional sheet for the body plan scrive board. The molds were 5/4 poplar and the stringers were 3/4 cvg doug fir. Best of luck on your build. Here's a link to an album of my 170: https://www.flickr.com/photos/126265...57648989345715

  16. #86
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    Default Re: Gartside 170

    Quote Originally Posted by bheys View Post
    "Jessie" looks like a lot of fun. We have a similar boat, Oughtred's "Fulmar". For the lofting floor I used 6 sheets of 1/2" ply over a 2/4 frame plus an additional sheet for the body plan scrive board. The molds were 5/4 poplar and the stringers were 3/4 cvg doug fir. Best of luck on your build. Here's a link to an album of my 170: https://www.flickr.com/photos/126265...57648989345715

    Thanks Bruce! May I ask what you were using for your long batten ..looked like it was a black metal strap or ..???

  17. #87
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    Default Re: Gartside 170

    The batten is Sitka Spruce.

  18. #88
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    Default Re: Gartside 170

    The last several weeks have been focused on getting out the various components associated with the deck and interior trim. All the shop workplace became occupied and this week I finally had to start attaching these bits. It's nice to make a little progress, but what a hassle now to have to crouch under that deck to get anything done in the berth area.




    Most of the filleting is done. So far the deck appears relatively fair, but that process just started this morning.



    In the background on the right you can see the beam/ply that supports the side deck as well as forming the coming and cabin base. I'll not install these for awhile as it really impedes getting in and out of the boat. Also in the last picture you can see the cockpit floor. This wood is old salvage D. Fir. It was in pretty rough shape (many layers of paint, lots of nails). The 8 panels surrounding the centerboard case have quick releases. The outer panels are fixed (similar to the berth panels).
    Bruce

  19. #89
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    Default Re: Gartside 170

    The cabin and cockpit will have separate bilge pump setups. These plugs will be removed to permit flushing the bilge from the forward hatch with the water draining out the transom.


    The outboard well will be completed with 1/2" ply and 6 oz. glass.


  20. #90
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    Default Re: Gartside 170

    great to hear from you again Bruce. geez those ceiling planks look good, I hope you're not going to paint them? You do very neat work, pat on the back

  21. #91
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    Default Re: Gartside 170

    Thanks Andrew. To paint or not is an argument I having with myself. The deck is Okoume and I'm not a particular fan of that wood finished clear - it will probably be painted. I should have bought stock in 3M before I started this project. My gosh, there's a lot of blue tape that goes into one of these boats.

  22. #92
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    Default Re: Gartside 170

    Thanks Andrew. To paint or not is an argument I having with myself. The deck is Okoume and I'm not a particular fan of that wood finished clear - it will probably be painted. I should have bought stock in 3M before I started this project. My gosh, there's a lot of blue tape that goes into one of these boats. I'm also not a big fan of varnishing. Most of the bits that have been clear finished are coated with teak oil. The teak oil sure gives a rather yellow/orange hue, but boy-howdy is it easy to apply.

  23. #93
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    Default Re: Gartside 170

    Taping is mind numbing:




    The underside of the deck bits are coated.


  24. #94
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    Default Re: Gartside 170

    After several hundred bronze screws and a pretty fair amount of thickened epoxy this deck isn't going anywhere.






    The aft coaming is just tacked in place. There's a ledger along it's lower edge that will help support the cockpit seating. I haven't figured out the proper final height. All the other beams and ledgers are ready to install. There are some areas of the deck that will need a bit of fairing compound before the glass goes on.
    Recently I took advantage of a sale and bought a couple of self tailing winches, a mainsheet traveler, main sheet ratchet fiddle, jib tracks and blocks and blocks for raising the centerboard. I'm trying to spread the purchase of this jewelry out so it doesn't hit all at once.

  25. #95
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    Default Re: Gartside 170

    great work as usual Bruce, looks almost done with the lid on !!

    How did you join deck sections, with a butt or scarfed
    Last edited by andrewpatrol; 10-28-2016 at 05:24 PM.

  26. #96
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    Default Re: Gartside 170

    Andrew - the sections are butt joined with the seams over the deck beams.

  27. #97
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    Hilton, NY. USA
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    Default Re: Gartside 170

    Hi Bruce. I was just on your Flickr site, great build. There are two pictures on your Flickr, of a boat sailing, is that your Fulmar. Are there any pictures of your Fulmar build on the net? I will be starting my Fulmar in the next month or so.

  28. #98
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    Default Re: Gartside 170

    JCR1- Yep, that's our Fulmar built in 2003. The images on the net are gone. Sorry.

  29. #99
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    Default Re: Gartside 170

    My original take on the cockpit design for the 170 was that it was not adequately supported. The support structure is 1 1/8" x 2" doug fir (cvg), with nothing attached to the hull. Once in place it seemed like there was more flex than what seemed sufficiently stout. However, with the addition of the seating surface and especially the seat back, I think I can claim that it's hell for stout. There is more storage space in the cockpit than I had envisioned. The seat back was slightly tricky in that it had to follow the curve of the coaming and achieve an angle of 10 degrees. I also tried to include a robust support for the mainsheet traveler. There's a primer layer over epoxy so far.




  30. #100
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    Default Re: Gartside 170

    I'm very lucky that my wife is ever so supportive of this boat build. Most of that support is her quietly paying bills without complaint. However, when it comes time to fiberglass, she is my essential right hand gal. This task is a lot more difficult done solo.




    The second coat went on with some colorant. That coat pretty much filled the weave. Between coats I refrained from sanding and just knocked down the seams and a few high points with a sureform plane and scraper. The third coat has some micro balloons and it with get both scraped and sanded.


  31. #101
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    Default Re: Gartside 170

    looking fantastic Bruce. You know how you say you cant estimate job times, well im discovering it blows out by a factor of ten when it comes to building the interior cabinets. Cut some bits, glue some bits, wait til next day, repeat.

  32. #102
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    Corvallis
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    Default Re: Gartside 170

    It's been darn cold. Epoxy and paint work take more planning. If either is to be used the following day, I bring it in from the shop to warm by the wood stove. I choose to only heat the shop during the day and it will drop down to as low as 45 f. Unfortunately, my small heater takes several hours to bring the temp. up to 60f. So rather than working incrementally on one significant task set, I seem to be randomly working on disparate tasks. For example, I purchased most all the electrical and plumbing bits and have been ciphering that layout. Truth be known, I've been somewhat clueless on how to proceed with the cabin and excuses to work on something else has been the path of least resistance.

    No one will ever appreciate the work, but keeping the deck beams clear while priming and painting the underside of deck took some time. Taping, 2 primer coats and a top coat was (ergonomically) a Sistine Chapel type affair with no art involved.



    The cabin top arc is 3" in 5'. It will be cold molded to the same thickness as the hull - 5/8" and will be built in-situ. The hatch will require it's own mold. The same pattern will serve both obviously.

  33. #103
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    Default Re: Gartside 170

    Gartside specs most all of the cabin joinery to be half-lap. Typically, I would use a dado blade and make quick work of the task. However there were so many odd angles to fuss with, I ended up using a pull saw to define the edge(s) and followed with a couple of hand held routers supported by a rudimentary jig.




  34. #104
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    Default Re: Gartside 170

    I was wondering what you were doing with the aft cabin bulkhead Bruce. Is that how PG drew it?

  35. #105
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    Default Re: Gartside 170

    Yup, that's how he drew it - pretty close at least. The companionway is about 1" wider and the cabin top is about 1/2" shorter.

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