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Thread: Gartside 170

  1. #36
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    Default Re: Gartside 170

    Great work! Looking forward to your progress.

    Mike
    "near it, a small whale-boat, painted red and blue, the delight of the king's old age."

  2. #37
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    Default Re: Gartside 170

    Thanks for posting your photos - looks great - makin' me smile

  3. #38
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    Default Re: Gartside 170

    It's good to get back in the shop after a 3 week absence. At any rate, the weather was nice and warm today so I got a layer of fiberglass cloth on the boat. Laying out the 72" wide fabric was bit awkward. I debated how far to pursue filling every small divot prior to adding cloth (mostly raptor staples set too deep). Several days ago I rolled on an epoxy wet out and the following day I troweled a scree coat of phenolic bead thickened epoxy. I lightly sanded using 80 grit. Many of the divots still remained, reduced in size. I decided to move on and apply the glass. Like I said earlier it was warm today - 80. I put a space heater under the boat overnight, I turned the shop heater on full blast this morning and brought the hardener and resin up to 72. When today's task was complete there were a bunch of small bubbles on the fabric surface so I think any air entrapped in the divots was replaced by epoxy.

  4. #39
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    Default Re: Gartside 170

    I used xynole to cover the deadwood/keel/outer stem assembly. It drapes well and might give some additional scuff protection. Really soaks up the epoxy. Our summer temperatures have been record setting high and so the shop is idle in the afternoon. The fill coats have set fast and I've had to go through some gyrations to keep the epoxy cool. The repetitious build up/fair off, build up/fair off ... is a good workout. The large amount of wasted epoxy shavings and sanding dust is a reminder of dollars gone poof. A sharp arsenal of scrapers is sure handy for this step.



    The primer is 2 part Interlux Epoxy Primekote. It's kind of nasty, but is easy to use. Goes on thin, needing several coats and needs an 18 hour window between coats - slow going.




  5. #40
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    Default Re: Gartside 170

    Very nice.....congratulations .
    I once thought I was wrong, but I was wrong, I wasn't wrong.

  6. #41
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    Default Re: Gartside 170

    I've debated whether bottom paint is necessary for this boat, after all it's a trailer sailer. However, it will spend much of the upcoming summers in at a slip. Our location is roughly equidistant between salt and fresh water slips. I ended up selecting Pettit Hydrocoat as it is supposedly suitable for trailered boats. The third coat went on today. The instructions say I can burnish it in 7 days.





    In addition to using bottom paint on the hull below the waterline, do folks typically use the same paint on the foils and the slot below the waterline? I have a bunch of paint remaining.

  7. #42
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    Default Re: Gartside 170

    bjeys, you can burnish the Hydrocoat. Yes, apply to trunk and foils, then wet sand!
    Clinton B. Chase
    Portland, Maine

    http://tinyurl.com/myboats

  8. #43
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    Default Re: Gartside 170

    Turning day happened without incident. What a relief! The main challenge was rotating a boat with a beam of 92" in a shop with a ceiling height of 96". A temperature of 101 added to the angst. I ended up bringing the garden hose into the shop and soaking the floor. No brute force was needed and the hull made no snaps, creaks or groans. Using an engine hoist at each end she turned as if on a rotisserie. The removal of the mold is up next, followed by establishing the sheer transition between the cockpit area and the raised deck section.






    After a long hiatus it will be a real pleasure to get back to working wood. Here's some more pictures:
    https://www.flickr.com/photos/126265...57648989345715

  9. #44
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    Default Re: Gartside 170

    Really nice hull! Looks very good! Judging your pictures, the inside will not require much work!

    /Fredrik

  10. #45
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    Default Re: Gartside 170

    Thanks Fredrik. Perhaps hull flipping is not too far off for you as well. I hope you're right about the inside clean up. I suppose in a professional build the mold would pop right out. That will certainly not be the case here. The mold stringers are covered in packing tape, however there are a number of areas where the epoxy has oozed beyond the tape and adhered the mold stringers to the cedar hull. No doubt my heat gun and scraper will get a workout.

  11. #46
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    Default Re: Gartside 170

    I'm have one pro-prep scraper (they are no longer manufactured). I wish I had several. They are sure handy for removing epoxy drips. At any rate the interior is more or less cleaned up and ready for a coat of epoxy. My trusty el-cheapo Grizzly heat gun has never skipped a beat. However, my electricity bill may be higher this month.



    Gartside's plans indicate a 6 oz. layer of glass on the exterior only for the cold-molded version of this boat. I'm wondering if a partial layer of 6 oz. cloth on the inside might give some additional support to the hull while it suffers the rigors of trailering. Perhaps this inside layer would just be on the bottom rising no higher than the waterline. On the other hand if there's no appreciable benefit, it rather save the time and materials.
    Bruce

  12. #47
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    Default Re: Gartside 170

    Quote Originally Posted by bheys View Post
    I'm have one pro-prep scraper (they are no longer manufactured). I wish I had several. They are sure handy for removing epoxy drips. At any rate the interior is more or less cleaned up and ready for a coat of epoxy. My trusty el-cheapo Grizzly heat gun has never skipped a beat. However, my electricity bill may be higher this month.



    Gartside's plans indicate a 6 oz. layer of glass on the exterior only for the cold-molded version of this boat. I'm wondering if a partial layer of 6 oz. cloth on the inside might give some additional support to the hull while it suffers the rigors of trailering. Perhaps this inside layer would just be on the bottom rising no higher than the waterline. On the other hand if there's no appreciable benefit, it rather save the time and materials.
    Bruce
    Opinions vary, i believe - but from what I understand the exterior sheathing is for the purpose of sealing the exterior and it's staple holes, and abrasion resistance. The hull, built Triple Diag should be stronger than any benefit you'll get from the 6oz FG inside structurally. It would add some sealing properties and abrasion resistance to the bilge area if it were glassed however.

    I'd venture (an opinion) that you won't see any structural benefit to doing it inside, but you may see some benefit to maintenance under the floor area over a longer term. Your veneers are doing all the job they need!

  13. #48
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    Default Re: Gartside 170

    Very impressive job so far! I would probably skip the glass inside, but i would not hesitate to give it at least 4 coats of pox in the bilge and 3 everywhere else. Did i miss the post of all the arduous hours of pain you spent getting the hull that fair? Ian

  14. #49
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    Default Re: Gartside 170

    Thanks much for the interior fiberglass opinions. I did not relish the notion of that messy task. It is hard enough for me to glass the interior of much smaller kayaks and canoes. I will give the interior a few coats of epoxy and use bilge paint below the waterline.
    Ian - yes there were "arduous hours of pain" spent fairing. In fact, there were 4 fairing episodes. The first and most difficult (for me) was fairing the mold ribbands. It seemed more difficult to get a sight line. Then each of the veneer layers had to be faired. The veneers used are relatively thick (2 at 3/16" and 1 at 1/4") and that probably helped keep it fair-ish. The Gougeon Brothers recommend using high quality lumber for the ribbands. It seemed like overkill at the time to utilize CVG fir, but in retrospect I think it was money well spent. I never really knew and still don't know when a surface is adequately fair. With my skillset and my toolset, the pursuit of complete perfection is both illusive and counter productive. It took nearly a half day to process the mold after removal. Can't say there's much joy in having a bunch of straight grain and quartersawn kindling and gardening stakes. My wife has started using the wood as "hostess gifts" at dinner parties. Who knew.


  15. #50
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    Default Re: Gartside 170

    Unfortunate part of boatbuilding is the amount of waste timber used that gets burnt afterwards, I feel your pain. So far strong back and moulds, set of steps to get in out of boat, gantry to lift things ( deadwood, hull turning, motor etc ), mould for casting ballast have gone into mine and probably more too.
    but you've got one of the fairest looking hulls there on the forum
    just occurred to me it's probably like the amount of money that goes into a boat, just stay under the shower and keep shovelling

  16. #51
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    Default Re: Gartside 170

    I seem to excel in underestimating the time each building stage will take. Shop time has a lot of competition this time of year; no complaints. However, I can finally claim that the sheer transition, the hull interior epoxy coating and the filleting are complete. Next up are the floors and bulkheads. I'm sure looking forward to getting sufficient lateral support to be able to remove the stickers at the sheer. It is not very ergonomic for a geezer.




  17. #52
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    Default Re: Gartside 170

    Beautiful work!

    If you had to do it again (), would you still use the cold molding technique or go the strip planking way?

    I'm tempted by cold molding for a future project but it looks to me that it's more work than strip planking...

  18. #53
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    Default Re: Gartside 170

    Thanks Sun. The reason I chose to use cold molding was mostly simple curiosity. It is not fast and I imagine it might be somewhat more expensive, but it has been fun and satisfying. The natural fact is that once the hull is complete, there is so much left to accomplish. I don't have a strong opinion regarding cold molding vs strip planking. Both techniques are epoxy-intensive. Cold molding requires a high quality stock for making veneers. Gartside specifies thick veneers that can be pretty stubborn to fit in some areas of the boat. Having a partner would sure make things a lot quicker for the entire hull layup. For the 170 there are differing glassing schedules depending on hull technique. The strip boat requires a heavier cloth both inside and out. The cold molded version only needs some abrasion resistance on the outside. I find glassing a hull's inside to be considerably more challenging than the outside. Gartside's web page has an essay comparing techniques that you might find interesting. I find glued lapstrake to be somewhat easier with less epoxy use. Gartside has a very similar hull to the 170 in the 166 design and it is drawn for glued lap. The 166 has 300 lbs. less displacement and uses a lug rig. A number of Gartside's larger hulls are a strip/veneer hybrid. I'm not sure if that method has been used on smaller hulls.

  19. #54
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    Default Re: Gartside 170

    Looking damn fine Bruce.

  20. #55
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    Default Re: Gartside 170

    The 170 has 3 bulkheads. All three were drawn on the body plan which sure helps in the initial pattern fitting. This first bulkhead has bevel that changes 10 degrees top to bottom and it has a 1" thick backer. The next two will be more straight forward. The 3 different floor heights indicate the berth, galley and cockpit areas.






  21. #56
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    Default Re: Gartside 170

    Hows it going Bruce??

  22. #57
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    Default Re: Gartside 170

    Thanks for asking Andrew. It's been a bit of a saga of late. In July I noticed that crawling around the boat was getting painful. By November I had lost my ability to walk. Ended up with a necrotic hip diagnosis in December. The hip was replaced 3 weeks ago and it is an absolute joy to be gaining mobility rather quickly. In a couple months I should be pretty close to recovered. Yesterday was my first day back in the shop and it is still awkward, slow and of short duration. It will be all bench work for a while. Today I glued up chainplate mounts (there are 6 shrouds) and cut bronze drifts for the foils. I can't tell you how much fun this is even if it is a minimal achievement. Here's a few pics to update where things are at:







  23. #58
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    Default Re: Gartside 170



    Says it all.

    Mighty fine work.

    Hope you have a speedy recovery.

  24. #59
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    Default Re: Gartside 170

    Thats no good at all Bruce. but as one cripple to another ( mines the knee ) please dont rush it. Ive been kneeling without a cushion and its giving me grief. So do whhat the doc and physio tell you. Boats looking great all the same.

  25. #60
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    Default Re: Gartside 170

    Hope your recovery is swift! Makes you appreciate the little things we sometimes take for granted.

    This is beautiful! What's it for?
    [IMG]knotwork by Michael Owen, on Flickr[/IMG]
    "near it, a small whale-boat, painted red and blue, the delight of the king's old age."

  26. #61
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    Default Re: Gartside 170

    That's a soft shackle made from 3/16" Amsteel Blue.

  27. #62
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    Default Re: Gartside 170

    The centerboard for the 170 is about 63" long, 20" wide and 1.5" thick. There are four 3/8" drifts set about 3" in from the edges. The board will have 60 lbs. of lead near the bottom. After the lead is poured the board will be faired and then covered with 6 oz. fiberglass and 4 oz. zynole.







    The slot will contain thickened epoxy serving as a spline and mostly for abrasion resistance.



    The pattern used for the centerboard trunk is handy for getting the correct pivot placement on the board. The pivot hole was drilled 1/4" oversize and epoxy filled.

  28. #63
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    Default Re: Gartside 170

    good work Bruce. Just thinking aloud, when i saw your groove around the edge, what about tucking the fibreglass cloth in it before filling the groove? Would give a tidy finish to cloth? Only prob I can see is getting cloth to lay around radii of edges. Ive often wondered how people finish the edges.

  29. #64
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    Default Re: Gartside 170

    Quote Originally Posted by andrewpatrol View Post
    good work Bruce. Just thinking aloud, when i saw your groove around the edge, what about tucking the fibreglass cloth in it before filling the groove? Would give a tidy finish to cloth? Only prob I can see is getting cloth to lay around radii of edges. Ive often wondered how people finish the edges.

    Sounds like a good idea to me ....

    Not much " feathering " required , if any ?

    High quality build

  30. #65
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    Default Re: Gartside 170

    I think you may be on to something Andrew. It might be tough to get the glass to make the tight bend into the slot. Perhaps Zynole could more easily fold over. I purchased chopped glass fibers to use as filler for the slots. However, I've spent way too much time trying to find where I last placed it (nearly went mental). My wife can most always find what I've lost. No luck this time, so I ended up using colloidal silica and wood flour. We have a Fulmar built in 2003 where I used the same system. The filled slot offers a great deal of protection and shows very little wear.

  31. #66
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    Default Re: Gartside 170

    in the sock drawer Bruce

  32. #67
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    Default Re: Gartside 170

    I've still not purchased lead for the keel and centerboard so work on the centerboard came to a halt.


    The rudder has 3-3/16" drifts each drilled at a different angle (a bit of a challenge for me). It is now roughed out and ready for fairing.









  33. #68
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    Default Re: Gartside 170

    The installation of the shelves above the berths was almost comedic. The shapes were easy enough to scribe onto pattern stock, but getting the pattern and then the final piece in and out of their location was a real puzzle. A 5" tall shelf edge will be installed during the final finishing.





  34. #69
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    Default Re: Gartside 170

    Well done Bruce. Solo boatbuilding presents some challenges at times, but one of the things I enjoy most is working out ways around them, causes some lack of sleep though!

    Those shelves look like they'll stiffen the hull a lot

  35. #70
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    Default Re: Gartside 170

    Really beautiful work!

    What are the plans for the interior colour?

    /Fredrik

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