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Thread: Gartside 170

  1. #106
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    Default Re: Gartside 170

    Most of the cabin construction is done. My try square has been parked while the bevel gauge and protractor have gotten a workout. I'm thinking that some quick stud framing would be very rewarding about now. The plans are fairly complete; never the less, there has been a good bit of conjecture (no doubt related to my experience level) even as I tried to stay true to the plans.

    The plans call for 2 layers of veneers, 3/8" and 1/4". However, I wanted to utilize what was left from molding the hull so I did 3 layers, 2 - 1/4" layers fore and aft separated by a diagonal 5/32".


  2. #107
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    Default Re: Gartside 170

    You're making great progress Bruce. Can I ask you to explain your electrical system please, like how many batteries , what items you're going to run, also do you have wiring up the mast and how have you run it in/out etc???

    Thanks

  3. #108
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    Default Re: Gartside 170

    The rough sanding is mostly done. We have some cold weather in the forecast so glassing will have to wait.






    I strongly considered painting the exterior of the cabin as I can't trust that I would be dutiful in maintaining varnish. Picked up a can of Cetol Teak to see how it would look. Have to say that varnish is probably superior aesthetically. Perhaps the Cetol will hold up better. I think it is a river of no return, whatever coating I use.

  4. #109
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    Default Re: Gartside 170

    Bruce , I got caught between your posts - can you see my question at #107

    thanks

  5. #110
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    Default Re: Gartside 170

    Andrew - this boat will have a rudimentary electrical system. Just one battery (no engine to start). All the lighting is LED (a dome light in the cabin, 2 reading lamps, and nav. lights). In addition, I will run wire to a bilge pump, compass, chartplotter/sounder, 2 accessory outlets and a tiller pilot. I am not going to run wire in the mast. Rather, I plan to haul this battery powered light mounted on a stick such that it rises above the top of the mast.

  6. #111
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    Default Re: Gartside 170

    In WB #220 there is an article on making hand rails by Eric Blake. Following his instructions were very straight forward. There's still some hand sanding remaining. The rails will be mounted from below with 1/4" bolts. All the bolts will avoid going through the beams. The roof will be strengthened under the bolts with good sized G11 washers.



    The rails, the toe kick, rub rail and coaming cap are all Khaya. In my experience, it isn't the most limber species in the world. Gartside specs fairly substantial dimensions for the toe kick and rub rail, so it took some considerable wrestling to get these bits in place. For grins I tried steaming the shorter toe kick that transitions from the upper to lower deck. That section was the most severe curvature. I knew it was unlikely to help - it actually prove somewhat useful, but I didn't steam elsewhere.


    You'll notice the roof and the sliding hatch are glassed. The hatch is where my next efforts will be focused.


  7. #112
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    Default Re: Gartside 170

    The transition joints for the rub rail and the aft cockpit coaming are half laps reinforced with bronze screws.




  8. #113
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    Default Re: Gartside 170

    Beautiful work on the rails Bruce. Your cabin top looks like a chop top from the fifties, long bonnet and all. Nice.

    how will you hold windows in?

  9. #114
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    Default Re: Gartside 170

    Thanks Andrew. Prior to routing the window rabbets I discussed mounting with a local glass shop we've dealt with over the years. They're no longer recommending caulking-type sealants. Instead, they utilize a tape that is quite thin. There will be a wood stop to hold it all in place. In fact the general topic of sealants is something I've been pondering. "Practical Sailor" has been evaluating various products over the years. In places where an adhesive sealant is desired they give a favorable response to a couple of non-marine products including Locktite PL40. Apparently, it is functionally quite similar to 3M 4200 and Sikaflex 291. For non-adhesive sealants they are favorable to butyl tape as well as Sudbury 300. Perhaps there is room to consider non-marine sealants much like non-marine paints are worth looking at for some applications. I purchased the Sudbury product for the winches and the hatch. All the other hardware will be bedded with the Locktite.

  10. #115
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    Default Re: Gartside 170

    This is my first experience with Cetol. I chose this product because it is alleged to be a long lasting coating given a reasonable upkeep. No doubt, the same can be said for varnish. Time will tell. The application prep is a bit lengthy - wipedown with their 216 thinner; a 220g sanding; and a final wipedown with 216 (two rag method). Sheesh! Unlike varnish, the instructions are very clear to not thin. Three coats of the "Natural Teak" went on using a good natural bristle brush. It leveled well, soaked into endgrain easily and both holidays and drips seemed easier to avoid and manage compared to varnish. Dry to touch was around 6 hours. My shop temp. was about 65 f. in moderate humidity. There is not a need to sand between coats. Build up is fast. As to the claims that Cetol is a more muddy, translucent finish; that is kind of true. But, from my perspective this trait is minor. I contacted an Interlux rep. regarding covering areas previously covered with epoxy. He recommended against it and so for those limited areas I used regular spar varnish. With a side by side comparison I find both clarity and coloration to be pretty darn similar. For all the exterior bits I used two coats of Cetol Gloss over the Natural Teak. Again, no thinning and no sanding between coats. If film thickness is an indicator of longevity, then I expect to get good results. There are several areas where I have some brush marks and dust nibs that I'd like to sand off. So I'll wait until the painting is done and go back for some area touch up with more gloss - or not.





  11. #116
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    Default Re: Gartside 170

    Wow looks stunning Bruce. That last photo looks especially good. What happens in th cockpit now, is the foot well closed in?

  12. #117
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    Default Re: Gartside 170

    The foot well is pretty much done. It's made up of cedar slats. The central 6 slats are removable using toggles.


  13. #118
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    Default Re: Gartside 170

    Wow, that is a beautiful boat!

  14. #119
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    Default Re: Gartside 170

    Another WOW! What a great build. I will be starting a Gartside build later this year and will be returning to this thread many times.
    Steve B
    TraditionalSmallCraftAssociation
    DowneastTSCA.org

    TraditionalSmallCraft.com
    RIVUS 16' Melonseed

    "If a man must be obsessed by something, I suppose a boat is as good as anything, perhaps a bit better than most." E. B. White

  15. #120
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    Default Re: Gartside 170

    Quote Originally Posted by SBrookman View Post
    Another WOW! What a great build. I will be starting a Gartside build later this year and will be returning to this thread many times.
    Interesting Steve. What boat? I've begun his #166 Centerboard Lugger.

    Bruce,
    Looking fantastic! Much to learn and use from here-
    Eddie
    Last edited by EeBe4; 05-05-2017 at 12:26 PM.
    My Sooty and other boats: https://lingeringlunacy.com/

  16. #121
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    Default Re: Gartside 170

    Sjogin III. But it's really III(a), as it will be stretched 2"/frame, add the Sjogin II cabin, and bilge keels instead of a CB. That's the plan. I hope I can get her close to the level of Bruce's work here, that will be a challenge.
    Steve B
    TraditionalSmallCraftAssociation
    DowneastTSCA.org

    TraditionalSmallCraft.com
    RIVUS 16' Melonseed

    "If a man must be obsessed by something, I suppose a boat is as good as anything, perhaps a bit better than most." E. B. White

  17. #122
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    Default Re: Gartside 170

    The deck and trim still have some touch up remaining. For the most part, I'm ready to move on to painting the hull topsides. There sure seems to be a lot of surface area to coat on this small boat. I've been using System 3 water based LPU for both primer and topcoat. It's been easy to use. It goes on thin, dries fast and needs no sanding between coats if the painting interval is less than 24 hours. This product is supposed to be fussy regarding the need for relatively high humidity. I flooded the shop floor with the garden hose prior to each coat. There are 3 coats of primer and 3 coats of top coat.



    I used a non-skid product called Soft Sand. Like so many aspects of this build, if I had to do it again the end result would be more professional. There are a few areas that received less grit than intended. No worries functionally. All the taping for the areas not receiving grit has to be removed before the paint starts to set.



    I have an HVLP gun but chose not to use it mostly because this paint doesn't like the turbine's hot air. The roll and tip left some marks, that will have to be labeled sufficient. Boy howdy this paint is hard. There's not going to be any sanding. It is probably accurate to call this top coat a semi gloss.


  18. #123
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    Default Re: Gartside 170

    Gartside drew the hatch slide in an arc following the cabin top. I cheated and made the slide and the hatch sides straight. It seemed more appropriate to my skill and patience level.





    The hatch is not bedded or fastened. I bought it prior to starting the deck beams and made a template. Of course I was a tiny bit nervous as I began to set it in place, but it went down with a little shove seated nicely. The stops for the windows are in the forground.


  19. #124
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    Default Re: Gartside 170

    Bruce , there's no need to get out the spray gun, finish looks stunning. You should be very proud

  20. #125
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    Default Re: Gartside 170

    What Andrew said, a beautiful job !
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  21. #126
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    Default Re: Gartside 170

    Beautiful!

    /Fredrik

  22. #127
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    Default Re: Gartside 170

    wonderful!

  23. #128
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    Default Re: Gartside 170

    I like it! Very, very nice.
    I was born on a wooden boat that I built myself.

  24. #129
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    Default Re: Gartside 170

    Thanks guys for the comments. I have a close friend who has made his living building furniture. Despite his advancing years he still can churn out pieces with speed, precision and accuracy. He has long made the claim that a primary difference between skilled and less skilled builders is the willingness and skills to fix the inevitable flaws. The willingness part is pretty easy at the beginning of a task, but after there's considerable amount of "value-added", that flexibility for a fix or redo comes into question. I contacted a factory rep for the System 3 paint to see if I could somehow add paint and grit to the areas that received less grit than desired. The rep says that a patch would be quite noticeable and to do it right I would have to recoat the entire deck. Even though I think I have enough paint and grit - no way. I'll compromise and live with it. If memory serves, there was a thread here a number of years ago describing a gradation of finish quality in terms of the distance one had to stand away from the boat for it to appear flawless. Some of you pull off 1-3' coatings, others seem to be satisfied with a work boat finish that is attractive at 20'. I'll aim for somewhere between and look forward to the dings, scratches and patina that shows she is much enjoyed.

    In post #122 you'll see the base for the very large tabernacle drawn for the 170. That tabernacle is nearly 2' tall. I had assumed that the top of the base was parallel to the waterlines. Not so - it's off level by about a degree. The mast is 27' tall so it makes sense that to get the correct mast tilt, this base had to be built just as drawn. It took more hours of fitting than I should admit even though it looks dead-simple. This task was sure a reminder how important it is to accurately transfer the lofted waterline from the station molds to the outside of the hull such that once flipped the boat can be accurately leveled. Perhaps I can finally claim that I no longer care if this boat sits level and can move it further way from the shop wall to facilitate hull painting.

  25. #130
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    Default Re: Gartside 170

    I'm running out of excuses to get started on building the mold and pouring the lead for the keel. The closest I have ever come to this task is encasing lead shot in epoxy. So as a trial run, yesterday I poured about 70 lbs. into the centerboard. It was drama-free, but lifting the molten lead off the stove into a pouring position seemed a bit dicey.





    It appears that I used about 10 lbs. more lead that called for. I guess that's OK. Perhaps that excess will be reduced in the shaping of the foil.


  26. #131
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    Default Re: Gartside 170

    Nicely done. Dealing with molten lead can be scary. An extra 10# down there will probably do more good than harm.
    Steve B
    TraditionalSmallCraftAssociation
    DowneastTSCA.org

    TraditionalSmallCraft.com
    RIVUS 16' Melonseed

    "If a man must be obsessed by something, I suppose a boat is as good as anything, perhaps a bit better than most." E. B. White

  27. #132
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    Default Re: Gartside 170

    When shaping the rudder I made a good faith attempt to replicate a NACA foil. The centerboard is a different animal with its full thickness center section - the width of the lead insert. Instead, the centerboard foil shape is closer to a more narrow foil that has been split lengthwise with the flat section inserted. After shaping and fairing it got a layer of Xynole polyester, System 3 two part primer and a finish of Hydrocote. The bottom paint can be burnished in about a week.


    A gudgeon will be slightly inset on the tab above the aft portion of the foil and will connect to the lift mechanism (4:1). This thing weighs 98 lbs. What a PITA for the zillion times it had to be turned on the bench.



    I finally have all my lead and antimony. Perhaps there are no more excuses to delay the pour. Hopefully I have over sized the mold sufficiently such that a small amount can be removed to make everyone happy. In cross section the lead keel is pretty small, but it is nearly 8' long. My hope is that leads to a low drama lead pour. The critical joints are sealed with muffler cement and the interior surfaces have 3 coats of water glass.



  28. #133
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    Default Re: Gartside 170

    I really enjoy your work, very nice! What is the weight of the keel? Looks quite similar as the keel of #106, I will follow with great interest!

    /F

  29. #134
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    Default Re: Gartside 170

    Nice to come back to a thread after a long break and see so much progress! I always wondered how that cabin was going to work out in 3D, and happy to see its as good as i thought it could be, a challenging bit of work, you should be well pleased.

  30. #135
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    Default Re: Gartside 170

    Thank you Fredrik and Skara. The keel is supposed to weigh 600 lbs. I have about 620 lbs. so I'm cutting it a bit close. Our late spring and summer have been extremely dry and it has been unseasonably hot of late. We live adjacent to two large research forests. The local skies have been occluded by forest fire smoke for more than a week. Needless to say, there is plenty of local concern as well as strict regulations regarding fire danger. I want to get the lead work done, but I don't want to attract unwanted attention with a large wood fire. There are accounts on pages of this forum where propane provided inadequate heat to melt lead for ballast keels. I have an older and large Camp Chef stove with 2 cast iron burners that are supposed to develop 60,000 BTUs. One burner melted the 70 lbs of lead in about 25 minutes that was used for the centerboard. I have 17 26.6 lb lead ingots. The remainder is shot. The shot should melt easily and hopefully aid the melting of the ingots. We'll see if this approach is adequate for the task and sufficiently stealthy to avoid getting in trouble.

  31. #136
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
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    201

    Default Re: Gartside 170

    I would not trust those concrete blocks to hold up 600 pounds of molten lead after building a hot fire inside them, too risky. Use fire brick or steel supports.

  32. #137
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    Default Re: Gartside 170

    If you need more heat, try a wok burner.

    23-tip = 100,000 BTU

    32-tip = 160,000 BTU

    I used the 23-tip to melt tire weights in a cast iron pot. 30 pounds every 10 minutes.


  33. #138
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    Default Re: Gartside 170

    ^ Gotta love this forum for cooking tips......

  34. #139
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    Default Re: Gartside 170

    The lead pour is done and it seemed to go well. I had lots of extra propane on hand, but it wasn't necessary. The entire process took about 2 hours from loading the lead into the vessel to completing the pour. There were so many avenues that could have gone poorly - good fortune prevailed. However, not much of my antimony was incorporated and was removed with the dross. I want to thank ulav8r for suggesting additional steel support. Perhaps it wasn't necessary as the cinder block held up well, but the vessel support redundancy sure gave me additional confidence.




    Fortunately, our son came up from Berkeley to enjoy the eclipse. He was a great help in pulling off the pour. A day later we are still very much gobsmacked by the eclipse.

  35. #140
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    Default Re: Gartside 170

    Our shop is about 50 yards from where the lead was poured and it needed to be transported by trailer. It was about 95 degrees so I worked up a major sweat moving it, but it really wasn't too hard even for a geezer.



    Most of the mold fasteners were on the underside so the whole assembly had to be turned upside down and then righted once the mold was removed. I have temporarily taken out the board that defined the centerboard slot, but it will go back in place to maintain the slot dimensions once the top is flattened. There was very little shrinkage save for lengthwise where there's about a 3/16 gap at each end. That was planned for. No voids are apparent, but there is a bit of a depression just to the fore of the slot. I was under the impression that the antimony did not incorporate. However, the keel has much more of a bell sound when struck with a hammer compared to the sound that the ingots made when hit.



    Getting this thing to fit into its position will be challenging for me. No doubt it will have to go up and down several times before the bolts are in place. I may try using a pallet jack in addition to bottle jacks. Is there a need to coat the lead with epoxy prior to primer and bottom paint?

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