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Thread: Restoring Lively Lady II

  1. #71
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    Default Re: Restoring Lively Lady II

    Quote Originally Posted by John B View Post
    Sounds well insulated there Ted . I don't have expertise with carbon but just know to be extra careful with metal near it, I've heard the horror stories. The best one being the million dollar racer cruiser with a faulty watermaker.
    And I've seen a few fizzing jibs where they've used steel grommets which have broken through the plastic washer isulation . ( back in the day, I think they mostly use carbon grommets on those now)
    Good points and i was a bit apprehensive about this too. I am going to replace the stainless soon as possible. I was hoping the layer of GFlex might be the answer to this galvanic action. As for the stainless u bolt... I am going to remove and redrill it a bit oversized then layer 5200 as the insulator. Let that cure then reinstall. That should work out then. I will receive the rigid boom vang in about 3 weeks then do all the work at the same time.
    The world's big and I want to have a good look at it before it gets dark.

  2. #72
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    Default Re: Restoring Lively Lady II

    I'm anchored in a bay next to a Chico 30 right now , I'll take a couple of photos for you Ted. Not the usual cabintop we see here mostly, great boats , pretty inexpensive now too as the used boat market is a bit dead still.

  3. #73
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    Default Re: Restoring Lively Lady II

    Quote Originally Posted by John B View Post
    I'm anchored in a bay next to a Chico 30 right now , I'll take a couple of photos for you Ted. Not the usual cabintop we see here mostly, great boats , pretty inexpensive now too as the used boat market is a bit dead still.
    my son, a nice, young coast guard officer and I took her out for a spin around the race course with very poor sails. We finished the course in last... We know we need a lot including sails that are 1/3 larger. Still we could have placed 4th out of 10 if we hadn't wrapped the lines which took 20 minutes to undo in moderate winds

    John, I would like to to see those pictures.

    here is a few from her sisters from years past.


    Last edited by Ted Hoppe; 04-20-2015 at 05:06 PM.
    The world's big and I want to have a good look at it before it gets dark.

  4. #74
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    Default Re: Restoring Lively Lady II

    bridge opening! their dad is coming!



    The little ones waving to their dad as we head out to the bay.



    Last edited by Ted Hoppe; 04-20-2015 at 05:28 PM.
    The world's big and I want to have a good look at it before it gets dark.

  5. #75
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    Default Re: Restoring Lively Lady II

    Yikes! From the tread I started about weeping keel bolts... I am lucky this didn't cause a huge deal coming home from Bodega Bay or racing last week. The bilge was wet after the race and i pulled the boards to chase the leak. The keel bolts was weeping so I began to tend to it. I applied the shop vac to clean up the brushed material i moved around it and to my surprise the bolt got pulled up into the hose...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Hoppe View Post
    It looked good from the top....

    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Hoppe View Post
    then the shop vac was applied to get the remaining material around the seal for clean up... I heard a rattle up the hose then yikes!



    Last edited by Ted Hoppe; 04-26-2015 at 10:51 AM.
    The world's big and I want to have a good look at it before it gets dark.

  6. #76
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    Default Re: Restoring Lively Lady II

    That is a bit scary Ted.

    here's the one that was next to us a week ago.





    .

  7. #77
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    Default Re: Restoring Lively Lady II

    Quote Originally Posted by John B View Post
    That is a bit scary Ted.

    here's the one that was next to us a week ago.





    .
    Nice pictures. thats ts a lovely one. The extended cabin really does add something to the boat.
    The world's big and I want to have a good look at it before it gets dark.

  8. #78
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    Default Re: Restoring Lively Lady II

    I am waiting for the haul out to do the keel bots until then I can do other things. Got a newish set of sails and now this...

    I returned her deck back to the color she was in 1968. When I prep her I discovered she was Seafoam at her base. thanks to Kirby paint and Interlux nonskid she is coming around.


    Could not help but smile a bit to discover that AC cup Intrepid from the same era had the same paint....

    Last edited by Ted Hoppe; 06-07-2015 at 10:48 PM.
    The world's big and I want to have a good look at it before it gets dark.

  9. #79
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    Default Re: Restoring Lively Lady II

    Hauled out at Svendsons yesterday. (Originally I was to go to Berkeley but the open water bay crossing and commercial traffic dint seem prudent.) Was quite relived to see her keel attached. (I knew she would be fine.) I tripped over the bilge pump exposed wiring while looking at the keel bolts breaking the contacts. the 1/2 mile trek over to the shop dock and over night added about a Home Depot bucket of leaked water into the bilge.

    Last edited by Ted Hoppe; 08-19-2015 at 12:59 PM.
    The world's big and I want to have a good look at it before it gets dark.

  10. #80
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    Default Re: Restoring Lively Lady II

    Tim the lift operator really did me a good service and placed the keel into a secure firm position for my intended work. The wedges and blocks will give her good pressure and access to properly tend to these upcoming challenges. It should be noted that the aft end of the keel once pressed moved about 1/4 inch up once some of the weight of the hull was lowered onto it. The mid section and forward parts were firm. Once shared away I gott a leader and climbed aboard and began to estimate work with a pen and vacuum hose in my hands. After some clean up, I took a ball pin hammer and tapped 5 remaining bolts. I was pleased to hear 4 of the five remaining bolts rang clear. It gave me even more confidence the bolts in the keel are connected more or less and sistering the new bolts could be a viable option.
    Once a bit more confident, I began to take one the real question I had for this sweet girl - how bad is she? With a deep breath I pulled the emergency plug that I pounded into the keel bolt void the day I sucked up the keel bolt. the relief of fixing her right removed a few more stresses I have been caring since that day. Once pulled I noted the lost aft bolt hole in the keel son is firm on top, but below was a large void, my larger than I expected. I stuck a 18" screwdriver into her (Maybe 12 inches deep and with four inches of play into the void). She was so far manageable by me and mine.

    Last edited by Ted Hoppe; 08-19-2015 at 01:31 PM.
    The world's big and I want to have a good look at it before it gets dark.

  11. #81
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    Default Re: Restoring Lively Lady II

    satisfied that my plan was going ahead, I took two scrapers and a probe out of the tool bag and climbed over the side and back down the yard ladder.
    What a difference dealing with a boat in 80 degrees and sun. - last December when I was hauled out in Berkeley the driving rain and flooded deck made for a miserable week, a rushed check and incomplete work. Things I can now do at a better, dryer and for me - a well thought out pace.

    Svendsons is an environmentally clean operation. One is no longer able to sand the bottom paint off by themselves which I am fine with. I know the guys there with vacuum sanders will have her done in 4 hours. Beside letting them do that dirty work and cleaning off the keel so I have a decently prepped bottom and more important cleaner keel is the goal anyway.

    Note; the top secret keel designed by aviation experts circa 1967 - unique to LL.



    I wanted to stay within svensons policies but I was too curious to wait for the sanders, so I began to tap and scrap the keel searching now for the hollow sections, high spots of 5200 harder goo and structural weakness as the boat continued to dry.

    Possibly good news for me as I "discovered" that the aft 1/3 of the keel is wood - most likely mahogany - the same section that the keel bolt came out of. Maybe this bolt failed do to water rot and water egress. My fingers are now crossed this is an easier fix than I expected.
    Last edited by Ted Hoppe; 08-19-2015 at 07:14 PM.
    The world's big and I want to have a good look at it before it gets dark.

  12. #82
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    Default Re: Restoring Lively Lady II

    Hi,
    I have seen this same fracture on a pearson 36....You will need to clean this area out completely , fill with epoxy filler, and put three layers of 24 oz biaxial matt, in three different directions.....that should keep it tight and reduce flexing....

  13. #83
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    Default Re: Restoring Lively Lady II

    On the port side I really scrapped and probed. my focus was directed into where the joint and the keel met as well as the aft section at the top. as I did visual inspection of the structural integrity and ending up ripping out a small section of the joint and was able to send a probe into it. There was epoxy goobs and punky wood - this only confirms that this edition will require a rebuild and replacement with a large scarf.

    Last edited by Ted Hoppe; 08-19-2015 at 02:42 PM.
    The world's big and I want to have a good look at it before it gets dark.

  14. #84
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    Default Re: Restoring Lively Lady II

    Quote Originally Posted by jgmarine View Post
    Hi,
    I have seen this same fracture on a pearson 36....You will need to clean this area out completely , fill with epoxy filler, and put three layers of 24 oz biaxial matt, in three different directions.....that should keep it tight and reduce flexing....

    I sure hope that is the case.

    It is funny to see and hear the plastic boat owners fret about these things. I think this is almost as much fun as to sail her. - it must be a mental illness.
    The world's big and I want to have a good look at it before it gets dark.

  15. #85
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    Default Re: Restoring Lively Lady II

    I have be quite fortunate lately. Good news - the keel boalts i thought were bad were not. It was just the one aft that opened up at the mahogany section of the keel. It was a great relief to discover i was going to be better than ok with my now suspenders solution.

    I have been a busy guy in the yard. I have done a few things that i never did and am proud of the results. I spent the whole day last week drilling 3 7/8" holes in the lead keel. It is hard, tedious work. Luckly i had a good jig and a heavy duty 3/4 inch drill with a varable speed and clutch. I only ended up breaking one pilot drill bit inside and one at the drill head. I think i was lucky considering the depth i too kthe bits and the material i pulled out. While i did that I ordered and recieved a 12 feet 3/4" Silicon bronze from some great folks in Seattle. Its breaking strength was 90,000 pound which meant that these bolts should hold onto the keel in additon to the other 4 other stainless bolts in great shape. I had them cut it in half for shipping - at 200 dollars - i was basicly buying it for weight. Great fast service. I had it cut again into 2 14" bolts and one 26" bolt leaving me some more bronze for any later project or for a freind in need. I saved some cash and have something that will outlast me and anyone who will take this boat after me.

    I will post some pictures on this once i get images off the real camera.
    I am really enjoying this making art and craftmanship.


    I finally got down to stripping the boat. I used aqua stripper and water which was a breeze once the product took. A good scrapper and i was off to the races. I took off nearly a dozen layers of paint. Since I can't sand my own bottom the work outside has been slower.

    Last edited by Ted Hoppe; 09-04-2015 at 12:35 PM.
    The world's big and I want to have a good look at it before it gets dark.

  16. #86
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    Default Re: Restoring Lively Lady II

    While i waited for the stripper to work - I reshaped the aft portion of the keel - i scarfed in a mahogany piece dipped in epoxy, drove a bronze screw into it for security and followed by a portion of west system 105/205and 403. It is quite slick, will be very strong and add to the overall structural integrity of the keel.

    The world's big and I want to have a good look at it before it gets dark.

  17. #87
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    Default Re: Restoring Lively Lady II

    Now that the hull is stripped - i am filling in the thru-hulls as i prepare for a composting head! Hopefully the next owners will think this is as neat and wise i do.

    After cleaning the holes, i cut out the new sections out of mahogany followed by a bit of tapering. I made inside and outside plugs. the lager on used the drilled hole to drive a screw to hold it for setting.





    The world's big and I want to have a good look at it before it gets dark.

  18. #88
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    Default Re: Restoring Lively Lady II

    Very good work there Ted. I know she appreciates it! I do too! What a job !!!
    Jay

  19. #89
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    Default Re: Restoring Lively Lady II

    tested it for fitting....



    Now in place. used the tape to hold the section in place while i got a jack stand to hold it firm then drove the holding screw in place as the epoxy filled the voids.

    The world's big and I want to have a good look at it before it gets dark.

  20. #90
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    Default Re: Restoring Lively Lady II

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Greer View Post
    Very good work there Ted. I know she appreciates it! I do too! What a job !!!
    Jay
    Thanks Jay. The hard work and the learning curve has be so pleasurable. The resources from my friends, the good folks at the boat yard, here on WBF, and the Gougeon brothers support has been terrific. I didn't want to post until i had done nearly 80 percent. Now that it is finally sand, prep and paint... she will be the fine sailing boat everyone who knows her as. That will the second greatest reward next to doing this restore myself.
    Last edited by Ted Hoppe; 09-04-2015 at 03:23 PM.
    The world's big and I want to have a good look at it before it gets dark.

  21. #91
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    Default Re: Restoring Lively Lady II

    Getting back to the stripping and preparing the keel.

    I ended up using 2 gallons of aqua strip and removed nearly 50 years of bottom paint. I collected the strips into a large bucket, had my notorious 8 gallon shop vac at the ready and made little mess. As you can see, the aft keel has now a piece of old growth mahogany scarfed in at this point and an epoxy joint. Soon i was moving to build an encapsulation fiberglass/kevlar skin to make this repair secure. I decided that sistering bolts was the way to fix her - most practical approach - a belt and suspenders concept that should hold the boat together for another 50 years. But to do this - i wanted to used the best materials available. But before that i had to drill through - a big depth of numerous 1&1/2 inch layers of wood and then several inches into the lead keel for the sistered 3/4" silicon bronze rods which i had to buy, take delivery, cut, make into bolts, tread, tap and secure with nuts.

    Here below in a blurry picture that i took after i had the bolts constructed. Unlike a few of you, i have gotten a bit soft working in 95 degree heat for days at a time. The boat drying up was a constant concern over these 3 weeks of really hot weather.



    here are two of the 3 bolts i made. i bought 12' of the highest grade, marine areospace silicon bronze rods. This grants her a shear strength that runs around 90,000 lbs and adding three gives her a ratio that is quite comforting. sorry about the photo as it was late and i had been working in 95 degree heat for nearly a week and a half withered me blurry. The total cost for these materials, shipping washers and nuts fell just under $375.00 total. If you ever buy keel boats - you will know that this is a steal Moreover if anyone need keel bolts like those above - I have the materials and the resources to get them to you as I have nearly 7 feet on really nice bronze leftover.
    Last edited by Ted Hoppe; 09-15-2015 at 01:25 PM.
    The world's big and I want to have a good look at it before it gets dark.

  22. #92
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    Default Re: Restoring Lively Lady II

    I have always been a bit lucky to have great friends. I was in luck again with thier tools - one of my builder friends lent me a 3/4 hp two handle drill with a great low speed and cool clutch. I purchased numerous bits for pilots, 3/8", 1/2" and 3/4" and 7/8" and 1 inch. - i had also had a few augers and some taps. I knew i was drilling beyond 18" and depths to nearly 24", If you ever drilled through lead you would understand the binding that happens. To address the numerous vertical drillings, i took a fine pine block of wood was 8" x 8" x 14" which i pre-drilled in adrill press to accommodate the various drill bits. Using that as a jig i could place them on the keelson to get a nice straight angle down. I used both soap and kerosene to keep the bits from binding in the soft and also unyielding lead - withdrawing every 1/4" to clear material. It took 6 hours to drill these three holes and broke a few bits which had to be drilled out in succession. The inside of the hull exceeded 100 degree with us 2 men inside the hot hull during our unprecedented heat wave. Once we had the holes in - i dropped threaded bolts for a test fit. Only one was a bit off and that was due to a broken bit that needed to reworked. The bolts looked super considering so i removed them, cleaned the holes with acetone and let them dry over night. the nest day - I poured epoxy down the dry holes using a tube and my wife's turkey seasoning injector needle, let it cure and redrilled them again making a nice epoxy sleeve. I then rethreaded the bolts into the holes with a new curing epoxy giving me nearly 12 to 24 inches depending on the rod of bite through hard wood and lead. The idea of finding a pocket inside the lead was intriguing but quite time consuming. So i only chose to do one that way.



    The world's big and I want to have a good look at it before it gets dark.

  23. #93
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    Default Re: Restoring Lively Lady II

    Once done - started to fill the seams and fair. Here she is with three coats of interlux 200o including a seam filler between the hull and the numerous coats.



    This of course is wishful thinking cover a strip planked boat. I thought that three layers epoxy paint and two coats antifouling paint would be enough.
    The world's big and I want to have a good look at it before it gets dark.

  24. #94
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    Default Re: Restoring Lively Lady II



    Here she is with nice antifoul paint and brand new thru-hulls and valves installed. Both are a bit proud but not bad.

    Also note that keel - she was Boeing engineer designed and was top secret in 1968. This is one of the coolest things on the boat and maybe quite historic as well. This keel changed yacht keel design. The design is said to lift the boat out of the water having the front end up and set the boat to plane in certain conditions.
    Last edited by Ted Hoppe; 09-15-2015 at 01:41 PM.
    The world's big and I want to have a good look at it before it gets dark.

  25. #95
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    Default Re: Restoring Lively Lady II

    Last Thursday was my last full day in the yard - i have been working on the boat almost every day since mid August. The heat took a toll on her (and me). The seams were constantly being chased and filled. the boat and I were often quite dehydrated. I wish i had thought to have filled her with fresh water every few days and dropped it out the only remaining instrument instrument thru-hull below the waterline. I was worried that the yard (or me) would have been fined if someone would have seen me dump the water on the dirty deck. The daily rate for storage also jumped from 40 to 80 dollars a day - talk about another motivator!

    The world's big and I want to have a good look at it before it gets dark.

  26. #96
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    Default Re: Restoring Lively Lady II

    On Friday, just after 7 am, Lively Lady headed towards the launching slip. I had no idea what to expect. I knew I was going to see some water but had no idea how much and for how long.

    The world's big and I want to have a good look at it before it gets dark.

  27. #97
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    Default Re: Restoring Lively Lady II

    The boat was lowered in and i was wringing my hands. The lift operator and the yard manager were there. She remained in the sling for less than 5 minutes but within 30 seconds the water began to gush in. My little hand pump and vaccum was not going to be enough. as the boat was hand guided to the next slip over, there was a flurry to get the incoming water under control. A 110 pump was brought in and set off once it was submerged under water 8 inches over the top of the case. All the while, i leaned over and watched the waterline disappeared and then bobbed up 2 minutes later. The yard guys laughed and said she was quite good... in fact better than the strip planked L36 they put in a few months ago which required 2 pumps! The water rose and drained several times over the next few hours. I took the story of 2 pumps to heart and got another from the club so i too could be ready. I was also concerned there was some paint flakes in the water and having 2 was a wise move.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Hoppe View Post
    I finally launched on Friday early in the morning. Perhaps i should have repainted the bilge before i put her back but i didn't. The warm weather made the work inside uncomfortable and besides i know i could do that dock side in my own time. The boat began to take on some serious water despite my efforts - maybe 10 gallons a minute at first. Then slowed to around 3 gallons a minute about hour later. Luckily we had 2 1/2 hp sump pumps that can really move water. By evening the wood really was swelling and by the end of Sunday night she was nearly stabilized. I was confident enough to move her away from the yard dock and back to her slip a half mile away.


    The disconcerting water coming is temporary. The video i shot really shows the streams - a controlled sinking and refloating is all part of the scheme. You should have seen the fiberglass guys eyes when the pumps went off.
    I used remaining proud keel bolts to stand on. For the record - i ended up tightening down the bolts with a large wrench, a breaker bar that was about 3 feet long and the two nut system. The teak is sandwiched between the nut/washers and the floor. I had been saving this teak for a year for this. My plan is now to cut the bolt ends off today with a grinder then paint as soon as the bilge is a bit drier.

    Last edited by Ted Hoppe; 09-15-2015 at 02:35 PM.
    The world's big and I want to have a good look at it before it gets dark.

  28. #98
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    Default Re: Restoring Lively Lady II

    I must admit I did wring my hands a bit. The water coming in did make me question my own work. I wondered if i had made an error. I even questioned the wisdom of owning a wooden boat when a plastic one seemed easy. But soon my friends began to arrive. Louis provided me with a great handshake and confidence. A hour later, my friend Andy who donned gloves and a tevak suit a few days came by with chicken, a salad, water and chocolate. It was quite settling indeed.

    Once Lively lady stabilized, i was even able to leave in the afternoon to catch my son's high school football game and make a long standing dinner date with my wife and some friends who were visiting.



    Here is my son, Jack playing defensive tight end. He ended up playing both sides of the ball, special teams and even catching a big pass that turned the game around for his teams victory! Now that was a day!
    The world's big and I want to have a good look at it before it gets dark.

  29. #99
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    Default Re: Restoring Lively Lady II

    Finally got a chance to sail for the first time this past weekend. She wasn't ready for the SFYC's Jessica's Cup but i entered her anyway. The leaks have slowed to a trickle and when we got underway with a just from the shop, reconditioned 6hp outboard. The stripped planks that did not get wetted seeped a bit more into a small stream. It was manageable.

    We motored across the bay and set the sails at the dock. I managed to bring the wrong headsail(s). One i had forgot to get hanks on and the other sail was as old as the boat and ill fitting - not even worth calling it a delivery sail. Despite this, it was a glorious October day. Weather was perfect with beautiful boats all around. It was one of the great San Francisco Sailing days with winds starting light at noon by 12:15 were picking up with gusts to 15 but more like averages of 10.

    Here beside us is a beautiful R boat dockside at the SFYC. What an inspiration!





    The world's big and I want to have a good look at it before it gets dark.

  30. #100
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    Default Re: Restoring Lively Lady II

    Andy, Louis and I had a great time. Sadly, the race photographer did not take a single picture of Lively Lady. They did not realize we were part of the event.
    That was ok by me as I got some really nice feed back form those at the dock who knew what i was doing and how hard i have worked to get her to even the condition to this point. I know in the upcoming venues sailing, this boat will make many heads turn, have a few pics taken and bring smiles to those who know her. The best complement and rewarding moment was to see Hank Easoms face light up as he brought Yucca close to see her. Enough said about all that.

    <a

    After the race we came back to the St. Francis for a nice beer and awards ceramony. We couldn't hang around for dinner due to my concern for the incoming water and going back to Alameda at night. Luckily/Unlucky we were so busy to the back to back races, we did not get a chance to eat. So we had our good lunch for dinner as we moved back across the bay at sunset.

    \

    Last edited by Ted Hoppe; 10-19-2015 at 02:45 PM.
    The world's big and I want to have a good look at it before it gets dark.

  31. #101
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    Default Re: Restoring Lively Lady II

    Great work Ted! You'll love those keel bolts every time you take her out. Looking fantastic.

  32. #102
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    Default Re: Restoring Lively Lady II

    Isn't it such a fantastic feeling to get back in the water after a haul. We've used the boat nearly every week since we relaunched a month ago ( or so)

  33. #103
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    Default Re: Restoring Lively Lady II

    Quote Originally Posted by John B View Post
    Isn't it such a fantastic feeling to get back in the water after a haul. We've used the boat nearly every week since we relaunched a month ago ( or so)
    I am hoping we get there too. It looks like we have a few nice days in the next month before the winter storms and much needed rains come.

    Yes it was fantastic to finally get her out after all the effort. We got a glimpse of her potential speed and handling. A simple shifts in 2 crew to the low side made her faster by at least a 1/2 kt in 8 kts of wind. There is definitely a learning curve to master to get this boat to really scoot as all the stories I have heard. I can imagine getting 1/3 faster on reaches next time and saw we could outpoint most other boats (Those Birds were really high). But more importantly for my wife and non sailor guests, the boat doesn't heal excessively except on really intended purpose making it a great comfortable family boat to explore this beautiful bay.
    The world's big and I want to have a good look at it before it gets dark.

  34. #104
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    Default Re: Restoring Lively Lady II

    a video of Lickety Split - a Hank Easom built Mull 30 (based on Lively Lady) running Champlain a few years ago.

    The world's big and I want to have a good look at it before it gets dark.

  35. #105
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Alameda, CA
    Posts
    8,336

    Default Re: Restoring Lively Lady II

    I did my first test sail of new year. Things went well. Now for paint and varnish in the exterior and then the galley... Note the rigid boom vang into the carbon fiber sleeve on my self made boom. I am quite proud of that. I will need to remove excess epoxy and yes the blue tape. I should be ready to campaign her in a month.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Hoppe View Post
    Lady Washington, Hawaiian Chieftain and & C.A. Thayer looking great with her sticks in. wind was 8kt and was in mid 60s. With the ebb, I was making 7 knots and the boards have all swelled. Best news of all - I now have a dry bilge!!!





    The world's big and I want to have a good look at it before it gets dark.

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