Chief Adm!n.
Did I ever tell you the story about the time I helped a friend move his newly purchased 30' Hunter "just down the street" to the launch spot? No? Well..... Let's just say that "just down the street" was really about 6 miles through the center of a busy town, on a Friday, at rush hour.... It's a really good thing that the cop directing traffic at that first intersection was laughing too hard to get in his car and chase me when I got pushed through the intersection....
Former member # 1964
I think it's an apples and oranges comparison, Norm.
Your friends in the back seat are forward of the rear axle, though maybe not by much. They may add 350 pounds to the rear axle and 50 pounds to the front axle, depending on the geometry of the car and the length of the arms of the levers.
50 pounds of weight on a hitch near the back bumper will put weight on the rear axle and remove weight from the front axle. Depending on the geometry of the car, this is probably no more than 25 pounds lifted off the front axle, so it is not significant. As Figment points out, braking under control could be an issue.
With my 3/4-ton truck, I have hauled over a ton in the bed and it does little more than smooth out the stiff suspension and slow acceleration. With 500 pounds tongue weight on the hitch (without weight distributing hitch to spread the load) the difference in control is noticeable, though the load is still in the rated range. (And trailers that heavy have their own brakes!)
I think the important thing is to stay well within the rated capacities for the vehicle. If Meerkat's idea of "a few hundred pounds" is a 700-pound Lightning on a 300 pound trailer with a couple of hundred pounds of gear in the boat, and a tongue weight of 200 pounds, towing it with a subcompact car could be interesting.
Wayne
Former member # 1964
I think it's an apples and oranges comparison, Norm.
Your friends in the back seat are forward of the rear axle, though maybe not by much. They may add 350 pounds to the rear axle and 50 pounds to the front axle, depending on the geometry of the car and the length of the arms of the levers.
50 pounds of weight on a hitch near the back bumper will put weight on the rear axle and remove weight from the front axle. Depending on the geometry of the car, this is probably no more than 25 pounds lifted off the front axle, so it is not significant. As Figment points out, braking under control could be an issue.
With my 3/4-ton truck, I have hauled over a ton in the bed and it does little more than smooth out the stiff suspension and slow acceleration. With 500 pounds tongue weight on the hitch (without weight distributing hitch to spread the load) the difference in control is noticeable, though the load is still in the rated range. (And trailers that heavy have their own brakes!)
I think the important thing is to stay well within the rated capacities for the vehicle. If Meerkat's idea of "a few hundred pounds" is a 700-pound Lightning on a 300 pound trailer with a couple of hundred pounds of gear in the boat, and a tongue weight of 200 pounds, towing it with a subcompact car could be interesting.
Wayne
Former member # 1964
I think it's an apples and oranges comparison, Norm.
Your friends in the back seat are forward of the rear axle, though maybe not by much. They may add 350 pounds to the rear axle and 50 pounds to the front axle, depending on the geometry of the car and the length of the arms of the levers.
50 pounds of weight on a hitch near the back bumper will put weight on the rear axle and remove weight from the front axle. Depending on the geometry of the car, this is probably no more than 25 pounds lifted off the front axle, so it is not significant. As Figment points out, braking under control could be an issue.
With my 3/4-ton truck, I have hauled over a ton in the bed and it does little more than smooth out the stiff suspension and slow acceleration. With 500 pounds tongue weight on the hitch (without weight distributing hitch to spread the load) the difference in control is noticeable, though the load is still in the rated range. (And trailers that heavy have their own brakes!)
I think the important thing is to stay well within the rated capacities for the vehicle. If Meerkat's idea of "a few hundred pounds" is a 700-pound Lightning on a 300 pound trailer with a couple of hundred pounds of gear in the boat, and a tongue weight of 200 pounds, towing it with a subcompact car could be interesting.
Wayne
Senior Member
The worst thing about trailer hitches is that every three or five years, I'll walk behind the vehicle, forget the hitch is there, and bash my shin on it.
Beware!
(Yes, I just did it a couple of days ago.)
Alan
[ 12-24-2003, 11:27 AM: Message edited by: Alan D. Hyde ]
Senior Member
The worst thing about trailer hitches is that every three or five years, I'll walk behind the vehicle, forget the hitch is there, and bash my shin on it.
Beware!
(Yes, I just did it a couple of days ago.
Alan
[ 12-24-2003, 11:27 AM: Message edited by: Alan D. Hyde ]
Senior Member
The worst thing about trailer hitches is that every three or five years, I'll walk behind the vehicle, forget the hitch is there, and bash my shin on it.
Beware!
(Yes, I just did it a couple of days ago.
Alan
[ 12-24-2003, 11:27 AM: Message edited by: Alan D. Hyde ]
Member
As light as your boat and trailer will be...well under 1000 pounds...I wouldn't lose any sleep over either tongue weight or your sedan's braking ability, regardless of what the manufacturer's liability-driven warnings are.
If you are really concerned about it, bring it on over and we'll hit my favorite junkyard for parts and put some surge brakes on the trailer.
If you get into bigger boats or horses some day...well, that's a different story.
Member
As light as your boat and trailer will be...well under 1000 pounds...I wouldn't lose any sleep over either tongue weight or your sedan's braking ability, regardless of what the manufacturer's liability-driven warnings are.
If you are really concerned about it, bring it on over and we'll hit my favorite junkyard for parts and put some surge brakes on the trailer.
If you get into bigger boats or horses some day...well, that's a different story.
Member
As light as your boat and trailer will be...well under 1000 pounds...I wouldn't lose any sleep over either tongue weight or your sedan's braking ability, regardless of what the manufacturer's liability-driven warnings are.
If you are really concerned about it, bring it on over and we'll hit my favorite junkyard for parts and put some surge brakes on the trailer.
If you get into bigger boats or horses some day...well, that's a different story.
Senior Member #4667
My Suzuki is a 1995 Esteem GLX. 1.6 litre EFI DOHC 16 valve, automatic overdrive transmission (OD can be selected "off"), ABS. Not at all zippy until it warms up, but that's been true from day one and the dealer said it was a trait of the engine. Warmed up, it can be quite zippy. Just on 60,000 miles on the odometer. I would buy a Suzuki again in a heartbeat: this car has been zero trouble (cross fingers, knock on wood). Next time it would be their small SUV though.
Still gets nearly 40 mpg on the highway! (But city milage has gone down for no good reason I know of - any ideas?)
[ 12-24-2003, 03:09 PM: Message edited by: Meerkat ]
Senior Member #4667
My Suzuki is a 1995 Esteem GLX. 1.6 litre EFI DOHC 16 valve, automatic overdrive transmission (OD can be selected "off"), ABS. Not at all zippy until it warms up, but that's been true from day one and the dealer said it was a trait of the engine. Warmed up, it can be quite zippy. Just on 60,000 miles on the odometer. I would buy a Suzuki again in a heartbeat: this car has been zero trouble (cross fingers, knock on wood). Next time it would be their small SUV though.
Still gets nearly 40 mpg on the highway! (But city milage has gone down for no good reason I know of - any ideas?)
[ 12-24-2003, 03:09 PM: Message edited by: Meerkat ]
Senior Member #4667
My Suzuki is a 1995 Esteem GLX. 1.6 litre EFI DOHC 16 valve, automatic overdrive transmission (OD can be selected "off"), ABS. Not at all zippy until it warms up, but that's been true from day one and the dealer said it was a trait of the engine. Warmed up, it can be quite zippy. Just on 60,000 miles on the odometer. I would buy a Suzuki again in a heartbeat: this car has been zero trouble (cross fingers, knock on wood). Next time it would be their small SUV though.
Still gets nearly 40 mpg on the highway! (But city milage has gone down for no good reason I know of - any ideas?)
[ 12-24-2003, 03:09 PM: Message edited by: Meerkat ]
Banned
I've been through this on a slightly different scale with my Mazda pickup and Drascombe Lugger. Though the bumper states a 2000 lb. capacity, the manual says 1000 without trailer brakes. Well, I figure the rig weighs about 1200, and though I looked into fitting it with brakes, it just didn't seem worth the trouble. The truck tows and stops just fine. But it is a gray area re liability, so I just don't carry my manual, and depend on the bumper rating. [img]smile.gif[/img]
If your manual says 'not recommended' I'd be nervous using it as a tow vehicle for much more than to the nearest ramp and back home--and a little nervous even then. I think the car will tow the weight you say just fine, but if you get in a wreck...And there's no one to ask about it. Your insurance company/dealer will almost certainly tell you not to do it.
Damn lawyers.
BTW, a site with all kinds of good advice about this is Trailersailor.com, or something like that. Not that the advice here isn't first rate, but their forum is aimed specifically at towing boats.
[ 12-24-2003, 03:28 PM: Message edited by: Jack Heinlen ]
Banned
I've been through this on a slightly different scale with my Mazda pickup and Drascombe Lugger. Though the bumper states a 2000 lb. capacity, the manual says 1000 without trailer brakes. Well, I figure the rig weighs about 1200, and though I looked into fitting it with brakes, it just didn't seem worth the trouble. The truck tows and stops just fine. But it is a gray area re liability, so I just don't carry my manual, and depend on the bumper rating. [img]smile.gif[/img]
If your manual says 'not recommended' I'd be nervous using it as a tow vehicle for much more than to the nearest ramp and back home--and a little nervous even then. I think the car will tow the weight you say just fine, but if you get in a wreck...
Damn lawyers.
BTW, a site with all kinds of good advice about this is Trailersailor.com, or something like that. Not that the advice here isn't first rate, but their forum is aimed specifically at towing boats.
[ 12-24-2003, 03:28 PM: Message edited by: Jack Heinlen ]
Banned
I've been through this on a slightly different scale with my Mazda pickup and Drascombe Lugger. Though the bumper states a 2000 lb. capacity, the manual says 1000 without trailer brakes. Well, I figure the rig weighs about 1200, and though I looked into fitting it with brakes, it just didn't seem worth the trouble. The truck tows and stops just fine. But it is a gray area re liability, so I just don't carry my manual, and depend on the bumper rating. [img]smile.gif[/img]
If your manual says 'not recommended' I'd be nervous using it as a tow vehicle for much more than to the nearest ramp and back home--and a little nervous even then. I think the car will tow the weight you say just fine, but if you get in a wreck...
Damn lawyers.
BTW, a site with all kinds of good advice about this is Trailersailor.com, or something like that. Not that the advice here isn't first rate, but their forum is aimed specifically at towing boats.
[ 12-24-2003, 03:28 PM: Message edited by: Jack Heinlen ]
CS-17 "BANDALOOP"
Another difference between towing and putting a couple of guys my size in the back seat is the aerodynamic drag. Fat white guys in the back seat might be windy and a drag to carry around, but they don't change the car's drag coefficient a whit. Once you get to about 40 mph, the aero drag of a boat on a trailer becomes a lot more apparent as you go faster. This places a lot more load on the engine and tranny. Locking out overdrive is essential, as is limiting your speed if you want to keep from damaging your car.
Probably the weakest link in your set up will be that little auto transaxle. What others have said about tranny coolers is advice worth heeding. IMO of course.
CS-17 "BANDALOOP"
Another difference between towing and putting a couple of guys my size in the back seat is the aerodynamic drag. Fat white guys in the back seat might be windy and a drag to carry around, but they don't change the car's drag coefficient a whit. Once you get to about 40 mph, the aero drag of a boat on a trailer becomes a lot more apparent as you go faster. This places a lot more load on the engine and tranny. Locking out overdrive is essential, as is limiting your speed if you want to keep from damaging your car.
Probably the weakest link in your set up will be that little auto transaxle. What others have said about tranny coolers is advice worth heeding. IMO of course.
CS-17 "BANDALOOP"
Another difference between towing and putting a couple of guys my size in the back seat is the aerodynamic drag. Fat white guys in the back seat might be windy and a drag to carry around, but they don't change the car's drag coefficient a whit. Once you get to about 40 mph, the aero drag of a boat on a trailer becomes a lot more apparent as you go faster. This places a lot more load on the engine and tranny. Locking out overdrive is essential, as is limiting your speed if you want to keep from damaging your car.
Probably the weakest link in your set up will be that little auto transaxle. What others have said about tranny coolers is advice worth heeding. IMO of course.
Senior Member #4667
I'm in hopes that the trailer and boat will be (well under) 500# - hopefully, no more than about 300# (200# boat, 100# trailer).
Senior Member #4667
I'm in hopes that the trailer and boat will be (well under) 500# - hopefully, no more than about 300# (200# boat, 100# trailer).
Senior Member #4667
I'm in hopes that the trailer and boat will be (well under) 500# - hopefully, no more than about 300# (200# boat, 100# trailer).
Ya'know, Meerkat? At less than 500 lbs, I should think your top vehicle in question should be easily capable of handling that. And if not, maybe you'd be well rid of the vehicle if it croaked.
Keep in mind that the vehicle manufacturers are covering their asses all over the olace when they state a vehicles limitations. Common sense ought to be able to tell you something; like does your particular vehicle have anything left over when it is merely hauling itself around?
When I was looking for a used Chevy Pickup to haul my 3,600 lb (GVW) Shearwater yawl around, I didn't have a lot of Manufactiurer's specs available. However, the truck showed evidence of once having a big receiver hitch welded to the frame. So I took it out to the steepest hill I could find and pretended it was a launch ramp. I stopped at the steepest part of the grade, and then goosed it for all it was worth. What happened was that truck seemed like it was gonna launch itself right into outer space off the top of that hill. So I figured it had the cojones to haul my Shearwater Yawl.
After thousands of satisfactory miles towing the Shearwater, I 'd say my "qualification test" was OK.
So when it came time to conside5 how to mount a small receiver hitch on my Neon so it could tow the new Melon Seed Skiff, I didn't evern bother consulting the manual. I originally bought this particular car because they are assembled by my neighbors, number one, and because the rented ones I'd driven before on busainess could "haul ass" with a full load of company people inside, number tow, and because they cost a lot less than a Miata.
I've towed my Melon Seed about 4000 miles with the Neon, and 600 miles with a Hobie-16, and haven't burned up any clutches, nor harmed the car in any other way.
You oughta be able to just sorta tell whether tha vehicle has the poop to pull a small boat, or whether it's a wimp.
Moby Nick
Ya'know, Meerkat? At less than 500 lbs, I should think your top vehicle in question should be easily capable of handling that. And if not, maybe you'd be well rid of the vehicle if it croaked.
Keep in mind that the vehicle manufacturers are covering their asses all over the olace when they state a vehicles limitations. Common sense ought to be able to tell you something; like does your particular vehicle have anything left over when it is merely hauling itself around?
When I was looking for a used Chevy Pickup to haul my 3,600 lb (GVW) Shearwater yawl around, I didn't have a lot of Manufactiurer's specs available. However, the truck showed evidence of once having a big receiver hitch welded to the frame. So I took it out to the steepest hill I could find and pretended it was a launch ramp. I stopped at the steepest part of the grade, and then goosed it for all it was worth. What happened was that truck seemed like it was gonna launch itself right into outer space off the top of that hill. So I figured it had the cojones to haul my Shearwater Yawl.
After thousands of satisfactory miles towing the Shearwater, I 'd say my "qualification test" was OK.
So when it came time to conside5 how to mount a small receiver hitch on my Neon so it could tow the new Melon Seed Skiff, I didn't evern bother consulting the manual. I originally bought this particular car because they are assembled by my neighbors, number one, and because the rented ones I'd driven before on busainess could "haul ass" with a full load of company people inside, number tow, and because they cost a lot less than a Miata.
I've towed my Melon Seed about 4000 miles with the Neon, and 600 miles with a Hobie-16, and haven't burned up any clutches, nor harmed the car in any other way.
You oughta be able to just sorta tell whether tha vehicle has the poop to pull a small boat, or whether it's a wimp.
Moby Nick
Ya'know, Meerkat? At less than 500 lbs, I should think your top vehicle in question should be easily capable of handling that. And if not, maybe you'd be well rid of the vehicle if it croaked.
Keep in mind that the vehicle manufacturers are covering their asses all over the olace when they state a vehicles limitations. Common sense ought to be able to tell you something; like does your particular vehicle have anything left over when it is merely hauling itself around?
When I was looking for a used Chevy Pickup to haul my 3,600 lb (GVW) Shearwater yawl around, I didn't have a lot of Manufactiurer's specs available. However, the truck showed evidence of once having a big receiver hitch welded to the frame. So I took it out to the steepest hill I could find and pretended it was a launch ramp. I stopped at the steepest part of the grade, and then goosed it for all it was worth. What happened was that truck seemed like it was gonna launch itself right into outer space off the top of that hill. So I figured it had the cojones to haul my Shearwater Yawl.
After thousands of satisfactory miles towing the Shearwater, I 'd say my "qualification test" was OK.
So when it came time to conside5 how to mount a small receiver hitch on my Neon so it could tow the new Melon Seed Skiff, I didn't evern bother consulting the manual. I originally bought this particular car because they are assembled by my neighbors, number one, and because the rented ones I'd driven before on busainess could "haul ass" with a full load of company people inside, number tow, and because they cost a lot less than a Miata.
I've towed my Melon Seed about 4000 miles with the Neon, and 600 miles with a Hobie-16, and haven't burned up any clutches, nor harmed the car in any other way.
You oughta be able to just sorta tell whether tha vehicle has the poop to pull a small boat, or whether it's a wimp.
Moby Nick
Member
I'd tell the tale of pulling 17,000 pounds of backhoe and trailer in an emergency across the mountain with the old 6.9L F250 without trailer brakes, but I don't want to set a bad example for the nimrods listening.
Member
I'd tell the tale of pulling 17,000 pounds of backhoe and trailer in an emergency across the mountain with the old 6.9L F250 without trailer brakes, but I don't want to set a bad example for the nimrods listening.
Member
I'd tell the tale of pulling 17,000 pounds of backhoe and trailer in an emergency across the mountain with the old 6.9L F250 without trailer brakes, but I don't want to set a bad example for the nimrods listening.
Senior Member
Make sure that it's strong...
Senior Member
Make sure that it's strong...
Senior Member
Make sure that it's strong...
Former member # 1964
Bob,Originally posted by Bob Smalser:
I'd tell the tale of pulling 17,000 pounds of backhoe and trailer in an emergency across the mountain with the old 6.9L F250 without trailer brakes, but I don't want to set a bad example for the nimrods listening.
If Meerkat's boat and trailer are less than 500 pounds, he will probably be a minimum of hazard to himself or to others on the road.
You don't say what the emergency was, but if you were knowingly towing on a public mountain highway a brakeless trailer that was three times the weight of your tow vehicle, I think you were grossly irresponsible unless that backhoe was urgently needed on the other side of the mountain to save someone's life. Is that the kind of thing you would do everyday? Would you take such an apparently cavalier attitude about felling timber? Is that really the kind of towing practice you want to recommend for others?
Sure, the manufacturers recommendations may be overly cautious or motivated by liability concerns, but for someone who has less experience than you in towing, I think following the recommended guidelines for the vehicle is good safety advice.
Wayne
Former member # 1964
Bob,Originally posted by Bob Smalser:
I'd tell the tale of pulling 17,000 pounds of backhoe and trailer in an emergency across the mountain with the old 6.9L F250 without trailer brakes, but I don't want to set a bad example for the nimrods listening.
If Meerkat's boat and trailer are less than 500 pounds, he will probably be a minimum of hazard to himself or to others on the road.
You don't say what the emergency was, but if you were knowingly towing on a public mountain highway a brakeless trailer that was three times the weight of your tow vehicle, I think you were grossly irresponsible unless that backhoe was urgently needed on the other side of the mountain to save someone's life. Is that the kind of thing you would do everyday? Would you take such an apparently cavalier attitude about felling timber? Is that really the kind of towing practice you want to recommend for others?
Sure, the manufacturers recommendations may be overly cautious or motivated by liability concerns, but for someone who has less experience than you in towing, I think following the recommended guidelines for the vehicle is good safety advice.
Wayne
Former member # 1964
Bob,Originally posted by Bob Smalser:
I'd tell the tale of pulling 17,000 pounds of backhoe and trailer in an emergency across the mountain with the old 6.9L F250 without trailer brakes, but I don't want to set a bad example for the nimrods listening.
If Meerkat's boat and trailer are less than 500 pounds, he will probably be a minimum of hazard to himself or to others on the road.
You don't say what the emergency was, but if you were knowingly towing on a public mountain highway a brakeless trailer that was three times the weight of your tow vehicle, I think you were grossly irresponsible unless that backhoe was urgently needed on the other side of the mountain to save someone's life. Is that the kind of thing you would do everyday? Would you take such an apparently cavalier attitude about felling timber? Is that really the kind of towing practice you want to recommend for others?
Sure, the manufacturers recommendations may be overly cautious or motivated by liability concerns, but for someone who has less experience than you in towing, I think following the recommended guidelines for the vehicle is good safety advice.
Wayne
Member
Shame on me...but such things can be done with care...once in a blue moon...the trailer did have brakes going up the mountain...I think you were grossly irresponsible...
Seating Tire Beads
Mount the tire.
Remove the valve stem.
Squirt a tad of ether starting fluid into the tire thru the valve stem.
Start with tiny quantities first and work up.
Heat a 2’ length of mechanic’s wire to a cherry red end with the torch.
Put on gloves, long sleeves, eye and ear protection.
Poke the hot wire into the valve stem.
After the “pop”, replace the valve stem and inflate to specs.
[ 12-25-2003, 09:39 AM: Message edited by: Bob Smalser ]
Member
Shame on me...but such things can be done with care...once in a blue moon...the trailer did have brakes going up the mountain...I think you were grossly irresponsible...
Seating Tire Beads
Mount the tire.
Remove the valve stem.
Squirt a tad of ether starting fluid into the tire thru the valve stem.
Start with tiny quantities first and work up.
Heat a 2’ length of mechanic’s wire to a cherry red end with the torch.
Put on gloves, long sleeves, eye and ear protection.
Poke the hot wire into the valve stem.
After the “pop”, replace the valve stem and inflate to specs.
[ 12-25-2003, 09:39 AM: Message edited by: Bob Smalser ]
Member
Shame on me...but such things can be done with care...once in a blue moon...the trailer did have brakes going up the mountain...I think you were grossly irresponsible...
Seating Tire Beads
Mount the tire.
Remove the valve stem.
Squirt a tad of ether starting fluid into the tire thru the valve stem.
Start with tiny quantities first and work up.
Heat a 2’ length of mechanic’s wire to a cherry red end with the torch.
Put on gloves, long sleeves, eye and ear protection.
Poke the hot wire into the valve stem.
After the “pop”, replace the valve stem and inflate to specs.
[ 12-25-2003, 09:39 AM: Message edited by: Bob Smalser ]
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote