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Thread: Romana de Scamp - Voyages and Adventures

  1. #456
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    Default Re: Romana de Scamp

    Quote Originally Posted by brucemoffatt View Post
    Oh you mean my sailing togs. Yes, obviously.
    Eeewwww. Just lost my appetite.

  2. #457
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    Default Re: Romana de Scamp

    Quote Originally Posted by brucemoffatt View Post
    Laying out bits and pieces to make sure I've got the bits.
    What, you don't care whether you have the pieces?

    Nice boat, Bruce. When are you sailing to Fremantle?

  3. #458
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    Default Re: Romana de Scamp

    I did discover a couple of pieces that I hadn't listed on the job board. I'll make 'em.

    Freo would have to be the long way, via Sydney, Darwin and Perth. I've done an 'uphill' from Ballina to Adelaide in a smallish boat and it's frustrating. If I win lotto I'll be hitting the road with Romana and trailer and could very well come to Freo. I had good beer and chips there a while back on a work trip, so why not??
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  4. #459
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    Today I bought the mainsheet, halyard, lazyjack and other sundry rope and line material, just so I could claim some 'earned value' on the project. There has been a bit of family drama the last couple of weeks so I've not made any other progress worth recording. All will be back to normal soon

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  5. #460
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    Salvaged a rudder pintle set from the junk pile. Well, most of a set. I'm ignoring my workshop job sheets and randomly cutting out and gathering bits for a firestorm of gluing later. Transom doublers, battery shelf ready to go.

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  6. #461
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    Default Re: Romana de Scamp

    When I told everyone in the world that I was building another boat, several things happened. One was a huge intaking of breath by those who know me best; both my single scull and I survived the ordeal of that first build to everyone's amazement, but not by much did we get through it. As well, quite a few people were sympathetic to my predicament of being then 59 years old and having been made redundant. Those who had been there before me, and know me, were pretty quick to deduce that my options would be limited to say the least. So a whole lot of outpouing of love and generosity happened. I got showered with peoples' old boxes and corners of boat stuff that I might use in this build, without lashing out lots of dosh. I got lots and lots of wood, from Phil and Mike and my mother-in-law who passed on lots of my father-in-law's wood when he passed on. My old mate Dave has disappeared to who knows where since then, and I continue to make use, at least weekly, of the stuff he handed on to me. One bit of that stuff is a one part of a set of rudder hardware.

    Here's what I dismantled today to scavenge the stainless steel bits.
    [IMG]rudder-001 by brucemoffatt, on Flickr[/IMG]

    The centreboard pin arrangement has worried me for yonks, and in the end I dismantled the pin end retainer parts I'd installed and I'm replacing them with this sort of thing. Again, the SS and plastic parts are from one of Dave's boxes of bits. The CB pin ends will now need to be tapered for 4mm at either end to snugly sit within the plastic bung plugs. You can see I've started on one end.

    [IMG]CBPinFix07 by brucemoffatt, on Flickr[/IMG]

    It occured to me that I could cut out transom doublers, so I did that. Their purpose is to beef up the transom so that outboard motor mounts and boarding steps etc can be added without over stressing the ply transom. Once I cut the doublers out I thought I'd start to work up the detail of the side decks where they meet the transom cap piece. It's coming together.

    [IMG]scamp-071 by brucemoffatt, on Flickr[/IMG]

    All in all it has been a bit of a wishy-washy day. At least I got some stuff done though. The thing on my mind now is the deck carlins. They are 20mm wide x 30mm deep and take a big swooping 3D curve. I've played with some Doug Fir laminations but that stuff is too stiff. I'm now on the hunt for something else that I can use that will take the curve and yet still be strong enough.
    Last edited by brucemoffatt; 07-05-2015 at 03:21 AM. Reason: spelling, as usual
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  7. #462
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    Default Re: Romana de Scamp

    Rather than search for more pliable wood, couldn't you just use thinner strips? Cut the strips to match the curve you want in one dimension and bend them to the other? I know it's a lot easier to say than do this stuff but I used a similar approach making the aft edges for our Folkboat's cabin top.

    Rick

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    Default Re: Romana de Scamp

    Quote Originally Posted by brucemoffatt View Post
    All in all it has been a bit of a wishy-washy day. At least I got some stuff done though. The thing on my mind now is the deck carlins. They are 20mm wide x 30mm deep and take a big swooping 3D curve. I've played with some Doug Fir laminations but that stuff is too stiff. I'm now on the hunt for something else that I can use that will take the curve and yet still be strong enough.
    I had much the same problem with JIM Bruce. They followed both the curve of the outside of the hull and of course the sheer, my "solution"was to glue up laminations around the outside of the hull.... and of course I couldn't spring the 40mm wide strips to the sheer as well so once the glue had gone off I resawed the assembly on the other axis and clamped it to the sheer.

    I used Tassy oak because I have a stack of 5m long clear vj lining boards bought at auction a decade ago. It's lovely material but not very flexible at all.

    Perhaps someone will explain how that job is supposed to be done ! My way worked but it was a lot of mucking around!
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
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  9. #464
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    Default Re: Romana de Scamp

    Quote Originally Posted by RFNK View Post
    Rather than search for more pliable wood, couldn't you just use thinner strips? Cut the strips to match the curve you want in one dimension and bend them to the other? I know it's a lot easier to say than do this stuff but I used a similar approach making the aft edges for our Folkboat's cabin top.

    Rick
    I've tried thin (10mm th) strips of Doug Fir. The problem is the 3D nature of the curve. While a thin vertical strip will take a thwart-wise bend, as soon as you try to make that thin stick go up at the ends it folds over on itself. Vice-versa if you lay a thin strip down horizontally - it will go up and down but will twist itself into a moebius strip when you try to bend it atwartships. I think Peter did some something tricky with double-laminations, by ripping down some laminated strips that he'd glued up, effectively ending up with, in section, a matrix of small squares of wood in an interstitial-glue-plastic-compound-stuff, but if I'm going to have to go to that much trouble I'd rather find a bendier wood to begin with. My choices are pretty limited in the existing wood pile stock - knotty Doug Fir, WRC, hardwood that could be Aussie Oak, or more Doug Fir. I'm aware that I've made a big meal out of much of the detail of this build and I would like to just find something that suits the job in a solid 20mm x 30mm section and move on. Oct 8th is looming! Romana's third birthday!!
    When I first joined WBF they made me write a book to prove I was a real yachty. I was so gullible.
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  10. #465
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    Default Re: Romana de Scamp

    Did you see my post Bruce ? The same problem.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
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  11. #466
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    Default Re: Romana de Scamp

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterSibley View Post
    Did you see my post Bruce ? The same problem.
    Yes Pete, Your post hit the thread while I was still typing mine Maybe steaming some 'Okk' and clamping it into place while it dries. Have you tried steaming any of yours? I got away with 15 x 30 Doug Fir and Celery Top Pine laminations on the gunwales because I could clamp it closely, wherever it needed it, and screw it down as I went, and the sheer plank was there to work up to, but the carlins only have the 8 bulkheads (including the two transoms) to haul it down to. I also have the situation wher the carlins have to have shaped ends where they butt up to the transoms at angles, and where they 'interfere' with the aft transom capping piece, so my worst enemy, precision, is against me.

    Never mind, I'll sleep on it and come up with something devastatingly simple by morning. How's that for a plan?
    When I first joined WBF they made me write a book to prove I was a real yachty. I was so gullible.
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  12. #467
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    Default Re: Romana de Scamp

    These are JIM's carlins, please excuse the poor photo. I hadn't decided the side deck width so I didn't have the ply gussets in so I had to form them as I said. I might have been able to steam them in and clamp them to supports if they were in place but that would have meant building a really long steam box and setting up a steam generator of some kind and that was verging on work!

    Laminating was easier and in this case faster.

    The photo is after the gussets were installed .
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
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  13. #468
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    Looks excellent Peter!

    So I went out in the dark to the various piles of wood I have round the place and I came across a bit left over after I'd ripped some stuff out of it for a different job. What I found is some of FIL's Okk at 20mm x 52mm x pretty much the right length for the carlins plus maybe 50mm. I'm tempted to set up some blade and work guides on the toy bandsaw and rip it down the guts and see if I can bend it on. The toy bandsaw blade takes out about 1mm plus wobble and a temp ply blade guide takes out nearly all of the wobble. It's too much of a coincidence to have it laying about like that; it's begging for attention.

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  14. #469
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    Default Re: Romana de Scamp

    I think I ripped that tassy oak to 6mm to give an easy bend with no springback.
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  15. #470
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    Default Re: Romana de Scamp

    I was thinking 10mm sounds awful thick for laminating. And I think I'd drill out the plastic bungs a tad rather than trying to make the stainless pin thinner.

  16. #471
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    Default Re: Romana de Scamp

    Thinking it through a bit further .... I remembered I ripped the strips both ways. So I made up the pieces with strips of teak that were about 6mm x 6mm, in two layers. That allowed gluing up a compound curve. I can't picture your application so I can't say whether this approach will work for you. But teak doesn't bend easily and some report that it doesn't glue well but I found it all worked well in my application.

    Rick

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    Default Re: Romana de Scamp

    Quote Originally Posted by RFNK View Post
    Thinking it through a bit further .... I remembered I ripped the strips both ways. So I made up the pieces with strips of teak that were about 6mm x 6mm, in two layers. That allowed gluing up a compound curve. I can't picture your application so I can't say whether this approach will work for you. But teak doesn't bend easily and some report that it doesn't glue well but I found it all worked well in my application.

    Rick
    Pretty well what I did, it ended up looking like a box of square spaghetti.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
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  18. #473
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    Well my square spaghetti is just like that only rectangular and 20mm x 25mm and made of Okk.

    I wonder if I can share a photo via the phone...

    [IMG]http://flic.kr/p/vD175M[/IMG]

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    Last edited by brucemoffatt; 07-05-2015 at 09:14 PM.
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  19. #474
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    Default Re: Romana de Scamp

    What's okk? I can see the photo but I can't really work out where this bit is going on the boat. Peter's much better at working out this sort of stuff than I am. I'd need a picture of where it's going. But, I find that spaghetti is usually better if it's thinner and looks nice too!

    Rick

  20. #475
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    Default Re: Romana de Scamp

    Hmm, forget the sharing photos on the phone.

    Here's the Okk. It's from my late Father In Law's wood pile. He was Ukranian. He bought the wood from a salvage auction and he thought it could be Ozzi Okk or Tazzi Okk, so he just called it Okk.

    [IMG]carlins-001 by brucemoffatt, on Flickr[/IMG]

    Here's where it is supposed to go on the boat.
    [IMG]carlins-002 by brucemoffatt, on Flickr[/IMG]

    I had it almost bent into position except I haven't trimmed it to length nor shaped the ends to sit against the transoms. Then I had to let it go to take a photo so it's only half bent here. If I can figure out how to fix the ends in then I reckon there's a good chance it will bend in without exploding. Maybe.
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  21. #476
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    Default Re: Romana de Scamp

    Quote Originally Posted by RFNK View Post
    My 2c:
    Hang the far end of the strip on a bit of string from the roof. Butter the strip but only enough to wet it out, not enough so the epoxy will dribble off - you could just use neat resin. Then butter the forward part of the boat where the strip is going on, and clamp the forward end of the plank on. Keep doing this, buttering just a section at a time, and clamping, until you get to the end. Then go back and fasten it from the forward end, adjusting the position and removing clamps as you go.

    Rick
    Sounds like a good way to do it Rick.

  22. #477
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    Default Re: Romana de Scamp

    Och, bonnie lad! I get it!

    I didn't realise you were bending in those long bits - I was imagining something smaller and tighter. I'd definitely go with the spaghetti. We had a similar problem with the chines in the little dinghy we're building. Ripping the strips down the middle allowed us to easily fit the curves.

    Rick

  23. #478
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    Well it had to come to pass eventually that it would be my turn to say stop making a big job out of it.

    It looks like the bit of what I think is Tassie Oak will spring in just fine in one lump, with one willing helper to help spring it in. I'm making little ply saddle bits for the bow transom ends to land into, and notching the trim at the stern transom, and then I should be hunky and dory. It doesn't get properly installed and glued until the sole and sole doubler are in, but it won't be long now.

    PS thanks for all the good advice.

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  24. #479
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    Default Re: Romana de Scamp

    I'm sort of disappointed now .....

    Rick

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    Me too... I could have made it SO complicated !
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  26. #481
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    Orright, you can work on some complicated notions for using sled kites as storm sails. That should keep you happy for a while.

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  27. #482
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    Default Re: Romana de Scamp

    I bought one of those little bandsaws a few years back, the boat in the shop at the time was a really big lump of a thing and the owner was fitting out the interior, climbing in and out for every cut was a pain in the very low back and that saw was on special, from memory it was about $100.
    It needed some careful adjustment and the blade that was with it was useless, but once we had a 1/4in x 6 teeth per inch blade on it it was surprisingly effective, on up to 1inch think anyway.
    I wouldnt recommend it as the only one in the shop, but for use on light stock inside the boat, there is a place for it in my kit.

    John Welsford


    Quote Originally Posted by brucemoffatt View Post
    Hmm, forget the sharing photos on the phone.

    Here's the Okk. It's from my late Father In Law's wood pile. He was Ukranian. He bought the wood from a salvage auction and he thought it could be Ozzi Okk or Tazzi Okk, so he just called it Okk.

    [IMG]carlins-001 by brucemoffatt, on Flickr[/IMG]

    Here's where it is supposed to go on the boat.
    [IMG]carlins-002 by brucemoffatt, on Flickr[/IMG]

    I had it almost bent into position except I haven't trimmed it to length nor shaped the ends to sit against the transoms. Then I had to let it go to take a photo so it's only half bent here. If I can figure out how to fix the ends in then I reckon there's a good chance it will bend in without exploding. Maybe.
    An expert is but a beginner with experience.

  28. #483
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    Default Re: Romana de Scamp

    Heya Bruce,

    Looks like you've got your carlins sorted, so this might be too late, but, at Scamp Camp 1 we didn't run the carlins all the way to the bow transom. They end at bulkhead 2, as they aren't really doing a lot structurally forward of that.

    IMG_0976 by Dale Simonson, on Flickr

    We laminated two 10 x 30's of sitka spruce, shaped the aft ends to fit into a notch cut into the transom, and they bent into shape "very easily" (i.e.: 2 guys reefed like hell on them and wrestled them into place).

    Cheers,
    Dale

  29. #484
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    Default Re: Romana de Scamp

    Is this one of those things where short of steaming, a good soak overnight wrapped in wet towels can do wonders? I guess you would have to bend it in, let it dry, then glue. I did something like that bending the keelson of my Acorn dinghy into place. I don't know if got the moulds out of whack or something but it seems to have a wicked bend from the last station to the transom. It took some muscle and bravery to get the timber into place.

  30. #485
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    Hi Dale. Stopping the carlins at BH 2. Why didn't I think of that?!? I haven't yet installed them and that advice will save me a lot of wrangling. I will put two separate forward deck beams between BH 1 and 2 to support the foredeck, just in case I ever get the urge to do a hornpipe up thete

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  31. #486
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    Hi John. I think I paid about the same as you and yes I broke the blade early on and replaced it same. It does work even on jobs like this long rip so long as I'm prepared to go slowly and nurse it along. Well, I haven't been able to break it totally yet and it still gets used all the time.

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  32. #487
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    Default Re: Romana de Scamp

    Bruce, the only deck beam on LUNA's foredeck is a 9mm bit of ply glued to the forward side of BH2:

    dry-fit deck beam by Dale Simonson, on Flickr

    I did add some cleats to the aft edge of bow transom, to mount a chock for the anchor rode:

    P6290830 by Dale Simonson, on Flickr

    Even with that minimal support, the camber of the deck gives the specified 4mm ply enough strength for a hornpipe!

    points for style! by Dale Simonson, on Flickr

    Well, maybe that's not a hornpipe, but Sergie is a big guy and he was dancing around up there a lot! (on Keith Nasman's ZEPHYR.) The boat is not very stable when you're dancing, but I've managed to pull off some pretty tricky manoeuvres in calm waters, with no deflection of materials!

    Cheers,
    Dale

  33. #488
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    Default Re: Romana de Scamp

    Dale the forward deck, cabin top and sides, and the coamings, are made from panels made up of Western Red Cedar strips. Home made ply if you like. The thin sheets are two layers of 3.5mm thick strips at right angles, all glued together. The thick panels are three layers of the same stuff. The strips are 44mm wide. There will be thin glass over all the decks and cabin to help beef up the WRC. Having played with the stuff a bit I'm a little bit concerned that under load it may shatter the WRC. It shouldn't, but I worry about this sort of thing at night - it saves me from worrying about the real problems in the world

    Yes to the 'doubler' fwd of BH2, I'm doing that. Good idea to put some beef behind the top of BH1 for attaching fittings, I'll do that as well now.

    The thing I must get to now is another epoxy-thon. The weather here is pretty bad for doing that, but in the grand scheme of things I need to do some prep work so I can get the sole and doubler down, and the seat tops on. Two warm days in a row would be good please In the mean time I'm noodling around getting lots of little bits all prepped and dry fitted ready for a whirlwind of assembly activity.

    Romana sings to me at night while I'm sleeping; long, howling tones and shrill whistles that call a sailor to the sea. Sometimes like the noises of waves being shattered by the urgent push of a prow into the waves, and the wind rushing around the whip end of an unstayed mast. It's a song I can't resist much longer. She sings it well, and often now.
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  34. #489
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    It often disappoints me how easily a piece of wood can be trimmed down to fit, but can't be stretched out once it's cut too short.

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  35. #490
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    Default Re: Romana de Scamp

    Also, it occurs to me that more coffee does not increase intelligence in line with enthusiasm.

    Some days it's worthwhile taking time off just to reduce the amount of tomorrow's fix-ups.
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