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Thread: The Harbor Master Called me Today

  1. #3536
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    Default Re: The Harbor Master Called me Today

    Quote Originally Posted by Favorite View Post
    You woke up my curiosity cat. Can you explain what you are checking ? My vague understanding of battery chargers is that they are a 120v - 15v transformer, follwed by a rectifier to dcify the current. And some control circuitry. What does measurable resistance across the ac and dc sides indicate ? Should it not be open ? Did you throw a scope across the dc to see how much ac was on the battery side ?

    That other thread about zincs in wood boats has me somewhat concerned ... if zincs protect the metal at the expense of the wood, ummm .... do they make kerosene vhf's ?
    My understanding is that zincs protect more noble metal, bronze, even steel, at the expense of.........the zinc.

  2. #3537
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    Default Re: The Harbor Master Called me Today

    What I was taught a good pile of years ago was there are two types of corrosion, galvanic corrosion an stray current corrosion.

    Galvanic corrosion is when you put two dis-similar metals in an electolyte (salt water), the more noble will be protected at the expense of the less noble (on the galvanic scale). Metals like copper an tin (what make up bronze) are fairly high on the chart and are therefore protected by ‘zincs’. Zinc is quite low on the chart.
    This is why you don’t want to use brass fastenings, brass is an alloy of copper (high), and zinc (low). The zinc corrodes away and leaves a porous copper fastening.

    I forget the details of stray current corrosion, but it typically is related to a problem with 120 or 240 volt shore power. If there is a problem with the shore power (on your boat, a boat in the area, or the power on the pier) that allows some AC current to ‘leak’ into the water it will cause all metals to corrode. Zincs do not protect against stray current corrosion, they can just sometimes be an indicator of a problem if they are corroding unusually fast. All the other metals will be suffering to.

    on my battery charger, yes, it should have read as a complete open between the AC and DC sides, I had that reading of something like 365,000 ohms resistance (not open). I went no further on testing or diagnostics, just replaced it. .... It was 25+ years old, and had not been used in 27 years so I figured it was time anyway. Any reading from AC to DC is a problem.

  3. #3538
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    Default Re: The Harbor Master Called me Today

    Quote Originally Posted by nedL View Post
    on my battery charger, yes, it should have read as a complete open between the AC and DC sides, I had that reading of something like 365,000 ohms resistance (not open).
    Ok, my fault for misunderstanding your meaning. I thought you meant that 360k ohms resistance was bad. Well, you did, but in the opposite direction from what I read

    Good idea tho which I am going to go check tomorrow - just throw the leads over the dc output of the battery charger on an ac scale and see what I get. Scope is nicer but beggars can't be choosers.

    @Phil Y : apparently, no. There's a bit of a thread about the damage to wood done by zincs. Yes, they protect the metal ... at the expense of the wood. It was a recent discussion.

  4. #3539

    Default Re: The Harbor Master Called me Today

    If you have a positive and negative electrode in any electrolyte (salt
    water) you get hydrogen gas from the negative cathode (protected metal) The
    Hydrogen gas combined with the salt water makes Sodium Hydroxide or Caustic
    Soda. Caustic Soda is used for pulping wood in the paper making process so
    not good round the underwater metal on a wood hull.
    There has to be a current and that requires a circuit. The current may come
    from the ships battery's or it can come from the use of dissimilar metals
    connected by bonding underwater. The circuit is completed through
    the electrolyte.
    You must never use brass or Manganese Bronze underwater as it is an alloy of copper and zinc.
    (60 -40) the zinc migrates from the alloy leaving the copper like a porous
    sponge. People use anodes to prevent this happening but that creates a more
    serious problem " The degradation of the timber round the shaft log and bonded thru hulls.
    Evidenced by white powder Caustic Soda being forced under huge pressure into
    the boat and the surrounding timber. First thing you look for when buying a
    wooden boat. Once it is there you really have to live with it, try and neutralize the Caustic Soda or do major surgery.
    Unfortunately, there are less and less wood boats and stern gear is being made from Manganese bronze (brass) That's OK on a F/ glass boat you can use an anode but not on a wood boat if you expect it to last.
    I understand not every one will agree with me. There have been warnings about this issue in Wooden Boat Magazine and The Professional Boat builder Magazine also Classic Boat Magazine. All parallel with my 60 odd year experience. Why do I write? I just feel so sad seeing sound wooden boats that should last for years being "Loved to Death" by their owners who think they are doing the right thing.
    Please, Never use zinc or bonding on a wood boat!
    Last edited by Chris mcm; 10-16-2018 at 05:10 AM.

  5. #3540
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    Default Re: The Harbor Master Called me Today

    I think the next order of business is replacing the cutlass bearing. To that end, I pulled off the prop nut, applied a little gentle heat to the prop, and gave it a tap or two to see if it wanted to come off.

    It didn’t. So I need a prop puller.

    Need a tool, make a tool. Right? I found a couple scraps of 1/2 inch aluminum plate that hopefully will be just the ticket.

    Marking out the plate.

    C41379D5-5A77-4579-BEBF-A4B7A728388B.jpg

    Adding some holes to bolt the plates together.

    532E1C8F-EC36-4239-AA77-3CBBFB247822.jpg

    Almost there, just need to finish up the slot for the prop shaft.

    E4E78911-0CF6-47C7-ABAA-980412A311B9.jpg

    Like so, more or less.

    11DCD7A3-F0D5-434A-AF5B-67163216E136.jpg

    5D7D5C73-8956-482E-98CF-E7C6C1E93E74.jpg

    It’s definitely crude. I’ll find out if it’s effective tomorrow, because at the moment it’s well past dark and I’m out of time for the day.
    -Jim

    Sucker for a pretty face.
    1934 27' Blanchard Cuiser ~ Amazon, Ex. Emalu
    19'6" Caledonia Yawl ~ Sparrow

    Getting into trouble one board at a time.

  6. #3541
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    Default Re: The Harbor Master Called me Today

    Man - dark or no I wouldn’t have been able to resist giving that screw a turn or two... Looks good to me Jim!
    - Chris

    Life is short. Go boating now!

  7. #3542
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    Default Re: The Harbor Master Called me Today

    Probably worth heating the hub, as hot as you dare, before you give it a technical tap (whack). Puller looks good to me! Carry on!

  8. #3543
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    Default Re: The Harbor Master Called me Today

    Hi Jim,

    you may get lucky but aluminum is not the ideal material, it tends to absorb shock rather than transfering it (the shock) to the parts to be seperated, anyway hope it works out for you.

    Penetrating oil can help also, when under pressure (puller fully loaded), whack the hub (prop) with a hammer from the side at the same time holding a bigger hammer on the other side of the prop but only if you can avoid bashing the prop blades! If you have to use heat use an electric heatgun it`s not so destructive as flame!

    Hope that helps,

    Alan

  9. #3544
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    Default Re: The Harbor Master Called me Today

    You do realize it's way more fun to do this underwater don't you?
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

  10. #3545
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    Default Re: The Harbor Master Called me Today

    Quote Originally Posted by Garret View Post
    You do realize it's way more fun to do this underwater don't you?
    Of course! ... Been there - done that a number of times (only a mask & fins). I'm not sure I'd up to the task in Alaska though (even in the middle of August). Lol

  11. #3546
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    Default Re: The Harbor Master Called me Today

    Quote Originally Posted by nedL View Post
    Of course! ... Been there - done that a number of times (only a mask & fins). I'm not sure I'd up to the task in Alaska though (even in the middle of August). Lol
    June in Maine ain't exactly fun either...

    7 mil wetsuit time!
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

  12. #3547
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    Default Re: The Harbor Master Called me Today

    Quote Originally Posted by Canoe View Post
    Hi Jim,

    you may get lucky but aluminum is not the ideal material, it tends to absorb shock rather than transfering it (the shock) to the parts to be seperated, anyway hope it works out for you.

    Penetrating oil can help also, when under pressure (puller fully loaded), whack the hub (prop) with a hammer from the side at the same time holding a bigger hammer on the other side of the prop but only if you can avoid bashing the prop blades! If you have to use heat use an electric heatgun it`s not so destructive as flame!

    Hope that helps,

    Alan
    You don't jar the aluminium. You pretension the puller then whack the jacking bolt to jar the shaft against the inertia of the prop. That should unload the aluminium.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  13. #3548
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    Default Re: The Harbor Master Called me Today

    Put the nut back on the shaft before you do anything, if you value the prop and your toes.

  14. #3549
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    Default Re: The Harbor Master Called me Today

    Quote Originally Posted by SailAR View Post
    Put the nut back on the shaft before you do anything, if you value the prop and your toes.

    th-3.jpeg


    sw
    "we are the people, our parents warned us about" (jb)

    steve

  15. #3550
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    Default Re: The Harbor Master Called me Today

    My concern with the aluminum is that it would just deform under load and not be stiff enough to hold the tension. But 1/2 inch plate is pretty beefy and I had it, so nothing ventured nothing gained.

    There was nothing to worry about though. I tightened the puller up to put everything under load. Then heated the prop hub up with a propane torch. Three or four minutes later... PANG!

    85E9C38B-C974-44EA-99EF-0308B0E27706.jpg

    Which was a bit of a surprise, but a good one. One of those that makes you laugh with delight. (I’m amused by simple things.)

    31C52779-768D-4C0F-A536-1D02D16ED9C7.jpg

    Next up up is the bearing, it is probably easier to pull the stern fitting and replace the bearing on the bench than it is to pull the shaft, so that’s my current plan.
    -Jim

    Sucker for a pretty face.
    1934 27' Blanchard Cuiser ~ Amazon, Ex. Emalu
    19'6" Caledonia Yawl ~ Sparrow

    Getting into trouble one board at a time.

  16. #3551
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    Default Re: The Harbor Master Called me Today

    Quote Originally Posted by SailAR View Post
    Put the nut back on the shaft before you do anything, if you value the prop and your toes.
    The nut captures the whole end of the shaft in a cap so it wouldn’t have fit. But there wasn’t enough clearance for the prop to fall off with the puller in the way.
    -Jim

    Sucker for a pretty face.
    1934 27' Blanchard Cuiser ~ Amazon, Ex. Emalu
    19'6" Caledonia Yawl ~ Sparrow

    Getting into trouble one board at a time.

  17. #3552
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    Default Re: The Harbor Master Called me Today

    Congrats!
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

  18. #3553
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    Default Re: The Harbor Master Called me Today

    I love it when a plan comes together!
    There's the plan, then there's what actually happens.

    Ben Sebens, RN

    15' Welsford Navigator Inconceivable
    16' W. Simmons Mattinicus double ender ​Matty

  19. #3554
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    Default Re: The Harbor Master Called me Today

    Uhmmm,....... Jim,..... I really like that first rate bonding wire from the bearing support to the skeg. Lol.

    (which is it tying into the bonding? The bearing support or the skeg?

  20. #3555
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    Default Re: The Harbor Master Called me Today

    Quote Originally Posted by jsjpd1 View Post
    My concern with the aluminum is that it would just deform under load and not be stiff enough to hold the tension. But 1/2 inch plate is pretty beefy and I had it, so nothing ventured nothing gained.

    There was nothing to worry about though. I tightened the puller up to put everything under load. Then heated the prop hub up with a propane torch. Three or four minutes later... PANG!

    85E9C38B-C974-44EA-99EF-0308B0E27706.jpg

    Which was a bit of a surprise, but a good one. One of those that makes you laugh with delight. (I’m amused by simple things.)

    31C52779-768D-4C0F-A536-1D02D16ED9C7.jpg

    Next up up is the bearing, it is probably easier to pull the stern fitting and replace the bearing on the bench than it is to pull the shaft, so that’s my current plan.
    I was about to ask if you used any heavy tools of persuasion to get the wheel off. Good to hear a little heat worked a treat.
    This sig line is proudly provided by The Wooden Boat Magazine Forum. If it ain't The Wooden Boat Mag, it just a rag.

  21. #3556
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    Default Re: The Harbor Master Called me Today

    I have almost identical bearing carriers on the boat I've run for a long time. Some years ago I pieced together a puller/pusher to change bearings, having tired of the shop charges to do so. I have pics, much better than trying to explain, I'll go dig around and try and find them for you. Essentially, hefty all-thread, the right nuts, washers and spacers, and away you go. Looking for pics now...

  22. #3557
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    Default Re: The Harbor Master Called me Today

    Just for future reference I’ll mention there is really no need for that center bolt. You just use the three corner bolts , and actually get three times the force with them as opposed to the one center.

  23. #3558
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    Default Re: The Harbor Master Called me Today

    Quote Originally Posted by Boatsbgood View Post
    I have almost identical bearing carriers on the boat I've run for a long time. Some years ago I pieced together a puller/pusher to change bearings, having tired of the shop charges to do so. I have pics, much better than trying to explain, I'll go dig around and try and find them for you. Essentially, hefty all-thread, the right nuts, washers and spacers, and away you go. Looking for pics now...
    Cool, looking forward to seeing the pictures. Do you get your bearings from a local shop or do you order them from someone?

    Quote Originally Posted by nedL View Post
    Uhmmm,....... Jim,..... I really like that first rate bonding wire from the bearing support to the skeg. Lol.

    (which is it tying into the bonding? The bearing support or the skeg?
    Truthfully, I have no idea what that wire is supposed to do. In this case it was a matter of letting sleeping dogs lay.

    Quote Originally Posted by nedL View Post
    Just for future reference I’ll mention there is really no need for that center bolt. You just use the three corner bolts , and actually get three times the force with them as opposed to the one center.
    I agree, the center bolt isn't as useful for tightening the puller as the three through bolts are and in fact I didn't use it for tightening, but does keep the puller centered on the shaft in a similar way as the ring on your end plate.
    -Jim

    Sucker for a pretty face.
    1934 27' Blanchard Cuiser ~ Amazon, Ex. Emalu
    19'6" Caledonia Yawl ~ Sparrow

    Getting into trouble one board at a time.

  24. #3559
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    Default Re: The Harbor Master Called me Today

    HI Jim:
    Attempting pics of bearing press..IMG_0732.jpgIMG_0708.jpg
    Its mostly finding washers (or in one case a belt pulley) the right size to bear where you need, and then a tube that will clear the bearing. Double nuts at the small end and turn the other end. I've gotten bearings locally but mostly get em from portsupply. They're snug going in (remember to find the set screws before you start with the wrench on the end bolts). Generous never-seize or grease for assembly. Hope the pics post big enough to see...
    Last edited by Boatsbgood; 10-25-2018 at 11:27 AM. Reason: spelling duh

  25. #3560
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    Default Re: The Harbor Master Called me Today

    Good to see you back, Paul.

    This is may be the best thread ever, yes?
    Rattling the teacups.

  26. #3561
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    Default Re: The Harbor Master Called me Today

    I could certainly live with a boat like this....



    How much does that dinghy weigh? Having that aft cockpit is a huge benefit for an extra room and on-top storage.
    As to your water issue. Have you got a grill over the intake on the outside? I recall a similar instance where the alarms went off due to a plastic bag being sucked over the grill, but when the engine was shut down, the suction released and the bag drifted off, to be seen by the crew who was checking for water out the exhaust at the time.... Tescos if i recall.
    Good luck with the bearing and bonding stuff, good to see stuff still going on.

  27. #3562
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    Default Re: The Harbor Master Called me Today

    Ahhhh, summer time. There is a grate on the raw water intake Ian. The dinghy weighs about 50 pounds/20 kilos~ish and can be a bit of a bear for one person to muscle up onto the roof. I’m thinking about building a swim step that it can live on when not in use.
    -Jim

    Sucker for a pretty face.
    1934 27' Blanchard Cuiser ~ Amazon, Ex. Emalu
    19'6" Caledonia Yawl ~ Sparrow

    Getting into trouble one board at a time.

  28. #3563
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    Default Re: The Harbor Master Called me Today

    Well, that took way longer than I thought it would. Got the stern gland pulled off and cleaned up. Then tried to press out the old cutlass bearing, but that sucker wouldn’t budge! Heat in combination with a few thousand pounds of pressure had not affect. I finally resorted to cutting the bearing in half to get it to move.

    Wire to nowhere.

    87513450-4809-47A5-BA9F-AB2B3143331D.jpg

    Cleaned up but stuck fast.
    DB9C35F3-E77A-4C91-BA94-23513160C408.jpg

    This ‘ll fix it.
    1DF1D27F-C6D3-41E6-AD44-7638BCEA393A.jpg

    Just like that.
    79757504-E195-40DF-9E37-FA81EDC82676.jpg

    Fortunately it went back together way easier.
    9BD8ED4E-A020-4705-80D1-EE7F6692A73B.jpg
    -Jim

    Sucker for a pretty face.
    1934 27' Blanchard Cuiser ~ Amazon, Ex. Emalu
    19'6" Caledonia Yawl ~ Sparrow

    Getting into trouble one board at a time.

  29. #3564
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    Default Re: The Harbor Master Called me Today

    Whats the difference between an expert and a professional?


    A professional always has the right tool for the job.

    A expert know how to make do with what he has.


    Jim, you are an expert of the highest order.
    There's the plan, then there's what actually happens.

    Ben Sebens, RN

    15' Welsford Navigator Inconceivable
    16' W. Simmons Mattinicus double ender ​Matty

  30. #3565
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    Default Re: The Harbor Master Called me Today

    "Wire to nowhere"

    That looks like somebody's attempt to bond the skeg. Not ideal, but the theory is sound.
    1973 Grand Banks 42

  31. #3566
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    Default Re: The Harbor Master Called me Today

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris-on-the-Boat View Post
    ... the theory is sound.
    On a fibreglass boat. But Amazon is made out of wood.

  32. #3567
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    Default Re: The Harbor Master Called me Today

    It’s hard to get excited about boat work in November, December, or January. The days are cold and dark, and getting darker, but then one day you realize that it’s not quite dark when you get home from work and the morage on the slip you’re not using comes due. All of a sudden, maybe, just maybe, it will be boat season again and working on the boat seems like something that might be a good idea. To which end, decided to pull a window out of the trunk cabin to re-bed.

    EA0EE3A0-8B4B-401A-BA39-41A03CAB4ABB.jpg

    As these things go, once the window was out it became apparent that there was not much holding it in.

    2136A80B-C73F-4FC2-942A-CA2B3CB65080.jpg

    4810F8FB-C87E-4565-B1C7-920A62999A1D.jpg

    With it all cleaned up and the no longer sound trim removed, we are left with a couple of options. Either build up a new frame or cut one into the cabin side.

    F17327FE-1366-412D-8E60-110758ECE42C.jpg

    This is stack of 1/16” thick strips suggests we should try the build up approach first.

    29246B50-535F-4F4C-A95D-6653A72CD0A6.jpg

    Good choice? Bad choice? Guess we’ll find out.
    Last edited by jsjpd1; 01-20-2019 at 11:23 PM.
    -Jim

    Sucker for a pretty face.
    1934 27' Blanchard Cuiser ~ Amazon, Ex. Emalu
    19'6" Caledonia Yawl ~ Sparrow

    Getting into trouble one board at a time.

  33. #3568
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    Default Re: The Harbor Master Called me Today

    Pandora's box every time with boats......
    .............have a feeling that will learn something here !
    "Little Bear" 1955 Fontana 18' - 1958 Atomic 4
    1960 Skippy 12C FeatherCraft - 1947 Mercury KD4 Rocket
    " Fela " 1985 Glen L15 - 1977 Johnson 15 hp
    2016 kayak Mill Creek 13

  34. #3569
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    Default Re: The Harbor Master Called me Today

    Great to see a new post! We all got spoiled with the year(s) of great stuff.

    @ -30 wind chill & 18" of new snow - I haven't been thinking about boats. I have been wishing I'd put that block heater in the tractor though!
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

  35. #3570
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    Default Re: The Harbor Master Called me Today

    It's definitely getting to be boat(work)ing season down here too. I know we still have a few months of cold weather ahead but the occasional nice day (like today) stirs the imagination toward summer and motivates progress. Nice to see Amazon getting some love!
    - Chris

    Life is short. Go boating now!

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