I have researched West System, System Three and Interlux on the web. In concept they all seem similar. I would appreciate recommendations as to ease of use and quality.
Thanks, Karl Almquist
I have researched West System, System Three and Interlux on the web. In concept they all seem similar. I would appreciate recommendations as to ease of use and quality.
Thanks, Karl Almquist
I have researched West System, System Three and Interlux on the web. In concept they all seem similar. I would appreciate recommendations as to ease of use and quality.
Thanks, Karl Almquist
I have researched West System, System Three and Interlux on the web. In concept they all seem similar. I would appreciate recommendations as to ease of use and quality.
Thanks, Karl Almquist
I've used System 3 and West, and prefer the 2-1 mix ratios of S3. West also seems a little brittle after cure.
Never tried Interlux, RAK or MAAS, though I saw a MAAS demonstration at the PT woodenboat festival. I'll stick (pun) with S3.
Roy
I've used System 3 and West, and prefer the 2-1 mix ratios of S3. West also seems a little brittle after cure.
Never tried Interlux, RAK or MAAS, though I saw a MAAS demonstration at the PT woodenboat festival. I'll stick (pun) with S3.
Roy
I've used System 3 and West, and prefer the 2-1 mix ratios of S3. West also seems a little brittle after cure.
Never tried Interlux, RAK or MAAS, though I saw a MAAS demonstration at the PT woodenboat festival. I'll stick (pun) with S3.
Roy
Senior Member
I use MAS and I'm pleased with it. I like the 2:1 mixing ratio. It's more flexible when cured than West.
Senior Member
I use MAS and I'm pleased with it. I like the 2:1 mixing ratio. It's more flexible when cured than West.
Senior Member
I use MAS and I'm pleased with it. I like the 2:1 mixing ratio. It's more flexible when cured than West.
Best for whom? Best for what? My hunch is that this is a bit like the "best" wine. The best is the one you like. Maas' no blush quality is attractive. CPES seems to be best for sealing/undercoating paint & varnish. WEST has a huge experience database, but some claim it's on the brittle side. S3, don't have a clue. There are some that are less fussy about mix ratios or temperatures. It goes on & on.
Belly up to the bar and pick yer poison pilgrim.
Best for whom? Best for what? My hunch is that this is a bit like the "best" wine. The best is the one you like. Maas' no blush quality is attractive. CPES seems to be best for sealing/undercoating paint & varnish. WEST has a huge experience database, but some claim it's on the brittle side. S3, don't have a clue. There are some that are less fussy about mix ratios or temperatures. It goes on & on.
Belly up to the bar and pick yer poison pilgrim.
Best for whom? Best for what? My hunch is that this is a bit like the "best" wine. The best is the one you like. Maas' no blush quality is attractive. CPES seems to be best for sealing/undercoating paint & varnish. WEST has a huge experience database, but some claim it's on the brittle side. S3, don't have a clue. There are some that are less fussy about mix ratios or temperatures. It goes on & on.
Belly up to the bar and pick yer poison pilgrim.
Senior Senior Member
I have used the the System Three product for several boats when Jerry Schindler made the resins and before was sold to System Three. It is a 1:1 mix and worked very well for a Piver AA-31 trimaran, several dinghys both plywood and strip planked, a Brown Searunner 31 and a Bruce Roberts Offshore 38 which circumnavigated. They are good resins...and also from 10-15 years experience if the West product is used extensively in the tropics they tend to get brittle and have had a problem or two with "Rolling shear", the ply laminations trying to work against the hard resin. The last two boats used MAS epoxy and have performed very well, and the new boat, a 40 footer uses MAS as the epoxy of choice.
Senior Senior Member
I have used the the System Three product for several boats when Jerry Schindler made the resins and before was sold to System Three. It is a 1:1 mix and worked very well for a Piver AA-31 trimaran, several dinghys both plywood and strip planked, a Brown Searunner 31 and a Bruce Roberts Offshore 38 which circumnavigated. They are good resins...and also from 10-15 years experience if the West product is used extensively in the tropics they tend to get brittle and have had a problem or two with "Rolling shear", the ply laminations trying to work against the hard resin. The last two boats used MAS epoxy and have performed very well, and the new boat, a 40 footer uses MAS as the epoxy of choice.
Senior Senior Member
I have used the the System Three product for several boats when Jerry Schindler made the resins and before was sold to System Three. It is a 1:1 mix and worked very well for a Piver AA-31 trimaran, several dinghys both plywood and strip planked, a Brown Searunner 31 and a Bruce Roberts Offshore 38 which circumnavigated. They are good resins...and also from 10-15 years experience if the West product is used extensively in the tropics they tend to get brittle and have had a problem or two with "Rolling shear", the ply laminations trying to work against the hard resin. The last two boats used MAS epoxy and have performed very well, and the new boat, a 40 footer uses MAS as the epoxy of choice.
Senior Member
I've used System 3 for about 20 years, and it remains my epoxy of choice. I second the comments about the brittleness of Gougeon and the flexibility of S3.
Senior Member
I've used System 3 for about 20 years, and it remains my epoxy of choice. I second the comments about the brittleness of Gougeon and the flexibility of S3.
Senior Member
I've used System 3 for about 20 years, and it remains my epoxy of choice. I second the comments about the brittleness of Gougeon and the flexibility of S3.
Senior Member
We have a local brand here called Bote-Cote, as well as the Gougeon's system. It has a 2-1 mix ratio, which, like Roy, I prefer to Gougeon's 5-1. (Bote-Cote smells nicer, too.) It's easier to make mistakes in proportioning 5-1 than it is with 2-1. I haven't noticed any strength differences in the finished product.
Senior Member
We have a local brand here called Bote-Cote, as well as the Gougeon's system. It has a 2-1 mix ratio, which, like Roy, I prefer to Gougeon's 5-1. (Bote-Cote smells nicer, too.) It's easier to make mistakes in proportioning 5-1 than it is with 2-1. I haven't noticed any strength differences in the finished product.
Senior Member
We have a local brand here called Bote-Cote, as well as the Gougeon's system. It has a 2-1 mix ratio, which, like Roy, I prefer to Gougeon's 5-1. (Bote-Cote smells nicer, too.) It's easier to make mistakes in proportioning 5-1 than it is with 2-1. I haven't noticed any strength differences in the finished product.
Senior Member
If you're not real familiar with using epoxy, (and I WASN'T...) I can't recomend System 3's T-88 highly enough. Easy, 1-1 ratio, very forgiving and doesn't require filler. And people around here who've been using it for years are still saying good things about it...
Senior Member
If you're not real familiar with using epoxy, (and I WASN'T...) I can't recomend System 3's T-88 highly enough. Easy, 1-1 ratio, very forgiving and doesn't require filler. And people around here who've been using it for years are still saying good things about it...
Senior Member
If you're not real familiar with using epoxy, (and I WASN'T...) I can't recomend System 3's T-88 highly enough. Easy, 1-1 ratio, very forgiving and doesn't require filler. And people around here who've been using it for years are still saying good things about it...
Senior Member
I used RAKA on my boat, and liked the result. I did have "catering" on the surface, a condition that System Three says their "surface agents" added to their epoxy tends to minimize. (Cratering is where the epoxy tends to look like wall texturing on wallboard, only not that prominent. A solution for it is to use a plastic spreader and fill the craters with a "skim coat" rather than sanding forever to get it all smooth.)
Anyone have experience with both RAKA and System Three? And notice a difference in cratering?
Senior Member
I used RAKA on my boat, and liked the result. I did have "catering" on the surface, a condition that System Three says their "surface agents" added to their epoxy tends to minimize. (Cratering is where the epoxy tends to look like wall texturing on wallboard, only not that prominent. A solution for it is to use a plastic spreader and fill the craters with a "skim coat" rather than sanding forever to get it all smooth.)
Anyone have experience with both RAKA and System Three? And notice a difference in cratering?
Senior Member
I used RAKA on my boat, and liked the result. I did have "catering" on the surface, a condition that System Three says their "surface agents" added to their epoxy tends to minimize. (Cratering is where the epoxy tends to look like wall texturing on wallboard, only not that prominent. A solution for it is to use a plastic spreader and fill the craters with a "skim coat" rather than sanding forever to get it all smooth.)
Anyone have experience with both RAKA and System Three? And notice a difference in cratering?
I have built two experimental aircraft, one was finished in 1978 and my most recent in 1998. The 1978 aircraft has over 500 flying hours on her and my current aircraft has 185. Both aircraft are aerobatic and both have all wood wings and tail surfaces that are glued with T-88, a product of System Three. A MOST EXCELLENT GLUE IN ALL RESPECTS. For that reason I used T-88 on my kick butt Catspaw Dinghy and very few screws. I also used System Three Epoxy resin to glass the outside and then their water reduceable two-part epoxy coating for the paint job. I have nothing but praise for all of their products that I have used. Not only are they user friendly but they hold up well. I BET MY LIFE ON THEIR PRODUCTS!
I have built two experimental aircraft, one was finished in 1978 and my most recent in 1998. The 1978 aircraft has over 500 flying hours on her and my current aircraft has 185. Both aircraft are aerobatic and both have all wood wings and tail surfaces that are glued with T-88, a product of System Three. A MOST EXCELLENT GLUE IN ALL RESPECTS. For that reason I used T-88 on my kick butt Catspaw Dinghy and very few screws. I also used System Three Epoxy resin to glass the outside and then their water reduceable two-part epoxy coating for the paint job. I have nothing but praise for all of their products that I have used. Not only are they user friendly but they hold up well. I BET MY LIFE ON THEIR PRODUCTS!
I have built two experimental aircraft, one was finished in 1978 and my most recent in 1998. The 1978 aircraft has over 500 flying hours on her and my current aircraft has 185. Both aircraft are aerobatic and both have all wood wings and tail surfaces that are glued with T-88, a product of System Three. A MOST EXCELLENT GLUE IN ALL RESPECTS. For that reason I used T-88 on my kick butt Catspaw Dinghy and very few screws. I also used System Three Epoxy resin to glass the outside and then their water reduceable two-part epoxy coating for the paint job. I have nothing but praise for all of their products that I have used. Not only are they user friendly but they hold up well. I BET MY LIFE ON THEIR PRODUCTS!
I have built two experimental aircraft, one was finished in 1978 and my most recent in 1998. The 1978 aircraft has over 500 flying hours on her and my current aircraft has 185. Both aircraft are aerobatic and both have all wood wings and tail surfaces that are glued with T-88, a product of System Three. A MOST EXCELLENT GLUE IN ALL RESPECTS. For that reason I used T-88 on my kick butt Catspaw Dinghy and very few screws. I also used System Three Epoxy resin to glass the outside and then their water reduceable two-part epoxy coating for the paint job. I have nothing but praise for all of their products that I have used. Not only are they user friendly but they hold up well. I BET MY LIFE ON THEIR PRODUCTS!
I have built two experimental aircraft, one was finished in 1978 and my most recent in 1998. The 1978 aircraft has over 500 flying hours on her and my current aircraft has 185. Both aircraft are aerobatic and both have all wood wings and tail surfaces that are glued with T-88, a product of System Three. A MOST EXCELLENT GLUE IN ALL RESPECTS. For that reason I used T-88 on my kick butt Catspaw Dinghy and very few screws. I also used System Three Epoxy resin to glass the outside and then their water reduceable two-part epoxy coating for the paint job. I have nothing but praise for all of their products that I have used. Not only are they user friendly but they hold up well. I BET MY LIFE ON THEIR PRODUCTS!
I have built two experimental aircraft, one was finished in 1978 and my most recent in 1998. The 1978 aircraft has over 500 flying hours on her and my current aircraft has 185. Both aircraft are aerobatic and both have all wood wings and tail surfaces that are glued with T-88, a product of System Three. A MOST EXCELLENT GLUE IN ALL RESPECTS. For that reason I used T-88 on my kick butt Catspaw Dinghy and very few screws. I also used System Three Epoxy resin to glass the outside and then their water reduceable two-part epoxy coating for the paint job. I have nothing but praise for all of their products that I have used. Not only are they user friendly but they hold up well. I BET MY LIFE ON THEIR PRODUCTS!
Senior Member
I first used epoxy resins about 1952. I had a chemical process development project with a 1000-gal. glass-lined steel reactor. Someone dropped a wrench in it and chipped a hunk of the glass lining, exposing steel. The standard repair was to undercut the edges and put in a gold patch as a dentist would. In this case, the conditions in the reactor were not extreme, but I had to be sure there was no iron contamination. I had a couple of tubes of an epoxy putty that I mixed and applied to the damaged area. It held up for a couple of years until the project was finished.
I started using epoxy in building boats around 1960. I bought resin and hardener from Morgan in CA, a Mil surplus dealer. One system used Versamid® polyamide hardener with a fairly viscous resin at 1:1. This is similar to T-88, now owned by System Three. All this is long before there were either West or System Three products.
I also used surplus epoxy resin with triethylene diamine and tetraethylene triamine hardeners from the research lab where I worked. They were 10:1 mixes—strong-smelling and way too fast at high ambient temperatures.
In research on epoxies I found that Dow described their 330 resin as their lowest viscosity undiluted resin. Lower viscosity resins sold by Gougeon, System Three, or other suppliers are all diluted with glycidyl ethers and nonyl phenol. These are reactive diluents, so give 100% solids on cure.
I found Dow 330 resin at Wicks Aircraft for about $21/gal. It is now about $29/gal. <www.wicks.com/aircraft> They were selling straight amine hardeners with it, so I just bought the resin.
By this time System Three was in business. I tried their three hardeners and liked the 2:1 ratio and the range of working temperatures. I use Dow 330 and System Three hardeners for all epoxy applications. For gluing applications I add about 10% talc to improve glue joint strength. I did a lot of experiments with fillers and settled on talc as the best. It combines high strength, thixotropicity, easy sanding, low cost, and ready availability (baby powder).
I think that is the best epoxy system there is.
Senior Member
I first used epoxy resins about 1952. I had a chemical process development project with a 1000-gal. glass-lined steel reactor. Someone dropped a wrench in it and chipped a hunk of the glass lining, exposing steel. The standard repair was to undercut the edges and put in a gold patch as a dentist would. In this case, the conditions in the reactor were not extreme, but I had to be sure there was no iron contamination. I had a couple of tubes of an epoxy putty that I mixed and applied to the damaged area. It held up for a couple of years until the project was finished.
I started using epoxy in building boats around 1960. I bought resin and hardener from Morgan in CA, a Mil surplus dealer. One system used Versamid® polyamide hardener with a fairly viscous resin at 1:1. This is similar to T-88, now owned by System Three. All this is long before there were either West or System Three products.
I also used surplus epoxy resin with triethylene diamine and tetraethylene triamine hardeners from the research lab where I worked. They were 10:1 mixes—strong-smelling and way too fast at high ambient temperatures.
In research on epoxies I found that Dow described their 330 resin as their lowest viscosity undiluted resin. Lower viscosity resins sold by Gougeon, System Three, or other suppliers are all diluted with glycidyl ethers and nonyl phenol. These are reactive diluents, so give 100% solids on cure.
I found Dow 330 resin at Wicks Aircraft for about $21/gal. It is now about $29/gal. <www.wicks.com/aircraft> They were selling straight amine hardeners with it, so I just bought the resin.
By this time System Three was in business. I tried their three hardeners and liked the 2:1 ratio and the range of working temperatures. I use Dow 330 and System Three hardeners for all epoxy applications. For gluing applications I add about 10% talc to improve glue joint strength. I did a lot of experiments with fillers and settled on talc as the best. It combines high strength, thixotropicity, easy sanding, low cost, and ready availability (baby powder).
I think that is the best epoxy system there is.
Senior Member
I first used epoxy resins about 1952. I had a chemical process development project with a 1000-gal. glass-lined steel reactor. Someone dropped a wrench in it and chipped a hunk of the glass lining, exposing steel. The standard repair was to undercut the edges and put in a gold patch as a dentist would. In this case, the conditions in the reactor were not extreme, but I had to be sure there was no iron contamination. I had a couple of tubes of an epoxy putty that I mixed and applied to the damaged area. It held up for a couple of years until the project was finished.
I started using epoxy in building boats around 1960. I bought resin and hardener from Morgan in CA, a Mil surplus dealer. One system used Versamid® polyamide hardener with a fairly viscous resin at 1:1. This is similar to T-88, now owned by System Three. All this is long before there were either West or System Three products.
I also used surplus epoxy resin with triethylene diamine and tetraethylene triamine hardeners from the research lab where I worked. They were 10:1 mixes—strong-smelling and way too fast at high ambient temperatures.
In research on epoxies I found that Dow described their 330 resin as their lowest viscosity undiluted resin. Lower viscosity resins sold by Gougeon, System Three, or other suppliers are all diluted with glycidyl ethers and nonyl phenol. These are reactive diluents, so give 100% solids on cure.
I found Dow 330 resin at Wicks Aircraft for about $21/gal. It is now about $29/gal. <www.wicks.com/aircraft> They were selling straight amine hardeners with it, so I just bought the resin.
By this time System Three was in business. I tried their three hardeners and liked the 2:1 ratio and the range of working temperatures. I use Dow 330 and System Three hardeners for all epoxy applications. For gluing applications I add about 10% talc to improve glue joint strength. I did a lot of experiments with fillers and settled on talc as the best. It combines high strength, thixotropicity, easy sanding, low cost, and ready availability (baby powder).
I think that is the best epoxy system there is.
Senior Member
Dave good idea using baby powder and it smells nicer than the corn starch I use
Senior Member
Dave good idea using baby powder and it smells nicer than the corn starch I use
Senior Member
Dave good idea using baby powder and it smells nicer than the corn starch I use
I used to use West but about three years ago a fellow builder had me try Evercoat 1 to 1 epoxy. I was very pleased and have used it ever since. I also now use their additives and fillers.
I used to use West but about three years ago a fellow builder had me try Evercoat 1 to 1 epoxy. I was very pleased and have used it ever since. I also now use their additives and fillers.
I used to use West but about three years ago a fellow builder had me try Evercoat 1 to 1 epoxy. I was very pleased and have used it ever since. I also now use their additives and fillers.
Evercoat makes two formulations that have wide distribution under their own name [and a remarkable similarity to certain products under the Seafit name at West Marine]. One is a one-to-one mix, and the other a four-to-one mix. The one-to-one mix is much more flexible than the four-to-one mix. One or another may be more suitable for different applications. You should be able to blend the two mixed formulations to obtain intermediate properties.
Evercoat makes two formulations that have wide distribution under their own name [and a remarkable similarity to certain products under the Seafit name at West Marine]. One is a one-to-one mix, and the other a four-to-one mix. The one-to-one mix is much more flexible than the four-to-one mix. One or another may be more suitable for different applications. You should be able to blend the two mixed formulations to obtain intermediate properties.
Evercoat makes two formulations that have wide distribution under their own name [and a remarkable similarity to certain products under the Seafit name at West Marine]. One is a one-to-one mix, and the other a four-to-one mix. The one-to-one mix is much more flexible than the four-to-one mix. One or another may be more suitable for different applications. You should be able to blend the two mixed formulations to obtain intermediate properties.
Senior Member
On using Baby Powder as filler, check the ingredients. Some are primarily talc, some cornstarch and others are mixtures of both.
Senior Member
On using Baby Powder as filler, check the ingredients. Some are primarily talc, some cornstarch and others are mixtures of both.
Senior Member
On using Baby Powder as filler, check the ingredients. Some are primarily talc, some cornstarch and others are mixtures of both.
Senior Member
I wanted to bump this up, and see if there is any new input, as this thread was started over three years ago.
Senior Member
I wanted to bump this up, and see if there is any new input, as this thread was started over three years ago.
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