Biodiesel

[Jay Panetta]

While cruising last summer, I met a fellow who told me he was running his Yanmar 30GMF on a mixture of standard diesel and biodiesel fuel. He claimed quicker starting, smoother running, far less soot on his white topsides, and less odor. He also reported that he'd gotten the blessing of Yanmar USA to try this fuel mix--and that he'd never go back to straight diesel.

Biodiesel is relatively expensive and not widely available, but that wasn't an issue for this particular owner, who--like many of us--powers little and fills his tank only once a year.

I'm wondering if others have tried biodiesel, and what they can report about the results.

[Jay Panetta]

While cruising last summer, I met a fellow who told me he was running his Yanmar 30GMF on a mixture of standard diesel and biodiesel fuel. He claimed quicker starting, smoother running, far less soot on his white topsides, and less odor. He also reported that he'd gotten the blessing of Yanmar USA to try this fuel mix--and that he'd never go back to straight diesel.

Biodiesel is relatively expensive and not widely available, but that wasn't an issue for this particular owner, who--like many of us--powers little and fills his tank only once a year.

I'm wondering if others have tried biodiesel, and what they can report about the results.

[Jay Panetta]

While cruising last summer, I met a fellow who told me he was running his Yanmar 30GMF on a mixture of standard diesel and biodiesel fuel. He claimed quicker starting, smoother running, far less soot on his white topsides, and less odor. He also reported that he'd gotten the blessing of Yanmar USA to try this fuel mix--and that he'd never go back to straight diesel.

Biodiesel is relatively expensive and not widely available, but that wasn't an issue for this particular owner, who--like many of us--powers little and fills his tank only once a year.

I'm wondering if others have tried biodiesel, and what they can report about the results.

[gashmore]

My only experience with it was as a guest crew on a boat in Chicago. It definitely does not smell like deisel. More like French fries. As we motored out of the marina I had the vague feeling there was a McDonalds close by.<G>

[gashmore]

My only experience with it was as a guest crew on a boat in Chicago. It definitely does not smell like deisel. More like French fries. As we motored out of the marina I had the vague feeling there was a McDonalds close by.<G>

[gashmore]

My only experience with it was as a guest crew on a boat in Chicago. It definitely does not smell like deisel. More like French fries. As we motored out of the marina I had the vague feeling there was a McDonalds close by.<G>

[paladin]

I thought it was more like fresh popcorn.....

[paladin]

I thought it was more like fresh popcorn.....

[paladin]

I thought it was more like fresh popcorn.....

[Ed Harrow]

But whatever it is, it's better.

[Ed Harrow]

But whatever it is, it's better.

[Ed Harrow]

But whatever it is, it's better.

[Scott Rosen]

The exhaust stinks worse than regular diesel. One of the yards was trying it in Newport a couple of years ago. I wonder how much petro-chemicals get used to fertilize the vegetable matter, process it, ship it to the refinery and then blend it with the diesel. I'll bet that the environmental gain is minimal or negative. Plus the smell is really bad, and that's a form of environmental pollution, too.

[Scott Rosen]

The exhaust stinks worse than regular diesel. One of the yards was trying it in Newport a couple of years ago. I wonder how much petro-chemicals get used to fertilize the vegetable matter, process it, ship it to the refinery and then blend it with the diesel. I'll bet that the environmental gain is minimal or negative. Plus the smell is really bad, and that's a form of environmental pollution, too.

[Scott Rosen]

The exhaust stinks worse than regular diesel. One of the yards was trying it in Newport a couple of years ago. I wonder how much petro-chemicals get used to fertilize the vegetable matter, process it, ship it to the refinery and then blend it with the diesel. I'll bet that the environmental gain is minimal or negative. Plus the smell is really bad, and that's a form of environmental pollution, too.

[bill hersey]

We are in the middle of production on a new TV series, ENERGY MATTERS. One of the subjects we have been involved with is biodiesel. Here's what we have learned:

It is meant to be used alone as a fuel -- not mixed. Although it can be mixed, that's when the smell gets bad.

The creation of biodiesel uses 75% less non-renewable resources (petroleum, etc.) in its creation and shipment than diesel or gasoline, which are produced in highly polluting refineries, and also shipped by tanker ship, train and truck -- which COULD burn biodiesel.

It has no evaportive emnissions (those gases given off by petrochemicals when they are stored or moved around, accounting for over 1/3 of fuel- caused air pollution).

It is made from soy, easily and inexpensively grown in most areas of the world.

It increases the life of an engine by decreasing internal wear (probably also has a + effect on repairs).

Only negatives we have found so far,being unbiased:

When stored it has to have additives to keep bacteria from growing, much like diesel (Biobore) only more so.

The possible economic disruption to our oil based global economy if it were to be suddenly used extensively. And that is not a joke, it is what's holding it back.

[This message has been edited by bill hersey (edited 04-17-2001).]

[bill hersey]

We are in the middle of production on a new TV series, ENERGY MATTERS. One of the subjects we have been involved with is biodiesel. Here's what we have learned:

It is meant to be used alone as a fuel -- not mixed. Although it can be mixed, that's when the smell gets bad.

The creation of biodiesel uses 75% less non-renewable resources (petroleum, etc.) in its creation and shipment than diesel or gasoline, which are produced in highly polluting refineries, and also shipped by tanker ship, train and truck -- which COULD burn biodiesel.

It has no evaportive emnissions (those gases given off by petrochemicals when they are stored or moved around, accounting for over 1/3 of fuel- caused air pollution).

It is made from soy, easily and inexpensively grown in most areas of the world.

It increases the life of an engine by decreasing internal wear (probably also has a + effect on repairs).

Only negatives we have found so far,being unbiased:

When stored it has to have additives to keep bacteria from growing, much like diesel (Biobore) only more so.

The possible economic disruption to our oil based global economy if it were to be suddenly used extensively. And that is not a joke, it is what's holding it back.

[This message has been edited by bill hersey (edited 04-17-2001).]

[bill hersey]

We are in the middle of production on a new TV series, ENERGY MATTERS. One of the subjects we have been involved with is biodiesel. Here's what we have learned:

It is meant to be used alone as a fuel -- not mixed. Although it can be mixed, that's when the smell gets bad.

The creation of biodiesel uses 75% less non-renewable resources (petroleum, etc.) in its creation and shipment than diesel or gasoline, which are produced in highly polluting refineries, and also shipped by tanker ship, train and truck -- which COULD burn biodiesel.

It has no evaportive emnissions (those gases given off by petrochemicals when they are stored or moved around, accounting for over 1/3 of fuel- caused air pollution).

It is made from soy, easily and inexpensively grown in most areas of the world.

It increases the life of an engine by decreasing internal wear (probably also has a + effect on repairs).

Only negatives we have found so far,being unbiased:

When stored it has to have additives to keep bacteria from growing, much like diesel (Biobore) only more so.

The possible economic disruption to our oil based global economy if it were to be suddenly used extensively. And that is not a joke, it is what's holding it back.

[This message has been edited by bill hersey (edited 04-17-2001).]

[ken mcclure]

Bill, what's the cost as compared to diesel? Cost to produce, that is.

[ken mcclure]

Bill, what's the cost as compared to diesel? Cost to produce, that is.

[ken mcclure]

Bill, what's the cost as compared to diesel? Cost to produce, that is.

[Frank Wentzel]

I find it hard to believe that biodiesel could have much of an impact. I use about 20 gallons of gasoline per week, about 120 pounds of fuel. It would take at least that weight in dried soy to make that much fuel. I estimate my family consumes no more than 30 pounds (dry weight) of food per week. To provide biodiesel for us the amount of foodstock required would increase by a factor of five. I don't think the United States could quintuple its food crop production to cope with this requirement. In addition, considering the recurring famines worldwide and the subsistence-level existence that much of the rest of the world maintains, it seems that a food-based fuel is not likely to concern the oil companies any time soon.

[Frank Wentzel]

I find it hard to believe that biodiesel could have much of an impact. I use about 20 gallons of gasoline per week, about 120 pounds of fuel. It would take at least that weight in dried soy to make that much fuel. I estimate my family consumes no more than 30 pounds (dry weight) of food per week. To provide biodiesel for us the amount of foodstock required would increase by a factor of five. I don't think the United States could quintuple its food crop production to cope with this requirement. In addition, considering the recurring famines worldwide and the subsistence-level existence that much of the rest of the world maintains, it seems that a food-based fuel is not likely to concern the oil companies any time soon.

[Frank Wentzel]

I find it hard to believe that biodiesel could have much of an impact. I use about 20 gallons of gasoline per week, about 120 pounds of fuel. It would take at least that weight in dried soy to make that much fuel. I estimate my family consumes no more than 30 pounds (dry weight) of food per week. To provide biodiesel for us the amount of foodstock required would increase by a factor of five. I don't think the United States could quintuple its food crop production to cope with this requirement. In addition, considering the recurring famines worldwide and the subsistence-level existence that much of the rest of the world maintains, it seems that a food-based fuel is not likely to concern the oil companies any time soon.

[John Laurino]

So awhile ago i was listening to Car Talk on NPR and the caller of the moment lived in a comune where they were running one of their trucks on SOME kind of alternative diesel which the car talk guys guessed might be disintagrating some rubber tubing and causeing recuring engine problems that didn't occur when they (the comune-ists) ran the truck on regular fuel. I seem to remember that they were making their own fuel, so its probobly something different, but... just some brain candy.

[John Laurino]

So awhile ago i was listening to Car Talk on NPR and the caller of the moment lived in a comune where they were running one of their trucks on SOME kind of alternative diesel which the car talk guys guessed might be disintagrating some rubber tubing and causeing recuring engine problems that didn't occur when they (the comune-ists) ran the truck on regular fuel. I seem to remember that they were making their own fuel, so its probobly something different, but... just some brain candy.

[John Laurino]

So awhile ago i was listening to Car Talk on NPR and the caller of the moment lived in a comune where they were running one of their trucks on SOME kind of alternative diesel which the car talk guys guessed might be disintagrating some rubber tubing and causeing recuring engine problems that didn't occur when they (the comune-ists) ran the truck on regular fuel. I seem to remember that they were making their own fuel, so its probobly something different, but... just some brain candy.

[G. Schollmeier]

In this area we have a guy that is running and old Benz on used deep fryer oil. He gets it free from the burger joints. He has to do some processing and it looked like a lot of
work. But I don't see anything negative here. Work on alternative fuels is making tiny steps forward. And that's a good thing.

John, a commune is a great place for a young person to start life away from home. You should have seen my first methane generator. What a mess.
Gary

[This message has been edited by G. Schollmeier (edited 04-18-2001).]

[G. Schollmeier]

In this area we have a guy that is running and old Benz on used deep fryer oil. He gets it free from the burger joints. He has to do some processing and it looked like a lot of
work. But I don't see anything negative here. Work on alternative fuels is making tiny steps forward. And that's a good thing.

John, a commune is a great place for a young person to start life away from home. You should have seen my first methane generator. What a mess.
Gary

[This message has been edited by G. Schollmeier (edited 04-18-2001).]

[G. Schollmeier]

In this area we have a guy that is running and old Benz on used deep fryer oil. He gets it free from the burger joints. He has to do some processing and it looked like a lot of
work. But I don't see anything negative here. Work on alternative fuels is making tiny steps forward. And that's a good thing.

John, a commune is a great place for a young person to start life away from home. You should have seen my first methane generator. What a mess.
Gary

[This message has been edited by G. Schollmeier (edited 04-18-2001).]

[Scott Rosen]

Gary,

I'm still using my first methane generator, the one I was born with, and its output increases with age. Trouble is, I've never figured out a way to use the gas for any purpose other than annoying the people sitting near me.

[Scott Rosen]

Gary,

I'm still using my first methane generator, the one I was born with, and its output increases with age. Trouble is, I've never figured out a way to use the gas for any purpose other than annoying the people sitting near me.

[Scott Rosen]

Gary,

I'm still using my first methane generator, the one I was born with, and its output increases with age. Trouble is, I've never figured out a way to use the gas for any purpose other than annoying the people sitting near me.

[G. Schollmeier]

ROTFLMAO!!!!

[G. Schollmeier]

ROTFLMAO!!!!

[G. Schollmeier]

ROTFLMAO!!!!

[Art Read]

Scott... First thing that popped into my head was a potato cannon with an "unusual" adaptor for reloading... Let me finish my coffee rations and maybe this will gell into a patentable design... I'll split the royalties with you...

[Art Read]

Scott... First thing that popped into my head was a potato cannon with an "unusual" adaptor for reloading... Let me finish my coffee rations and maybe this will gell into a patentable design... I'll split the royalties with you...

[Art Read]

Scott... First thing that popped into my head was a potato cannon with an "unusual" adaptor for reloading... Let me finish my coffee rations and maybe this will gell into a patentable design... I'll split the royalties with you...

[Ed Harrow]

Ahhhh, I don't want to rain on your parade, Art, but when push comes to shove, methane don't cut it.

[Ed Harrow]

Ahhhh, I don't want to rain on your parade, Art, but when push comes to shove, methane don't cut it.

[Ed Harrow]

Ahhhh, I don't want to rain on your parade, Art, but when push comes to shove, methane don't cut it.

[Scott Rosen]

ROTFLMAO!

Art, I think you're on to something. Ed, methane alone may not "cut it" (pun intended?), but a blend of methane and, say, atomized lighter fluid, might be quite potent. You could design a carburation system that uses the force of the expelling methane to atomize the lighter fluid in to the chamber of the potato canon. You'd need a rig that would create a good, airtight seal on the methane discharge hose. You'd also need a good supply of lighter fluid, beans and hot chili peppers. If you run out of lighter fluid, you can use the methane alone as a back up. It would be easy to sneak this weapon anywhere. You could put the canon in a brown grocery bag and cover it with the potatoes, beans and peppers. If you get stopped, just tell them you're on your way to a chili-making contest.

[Scott Rosen]

ROTFLMAO!

Art, I think you're on to something. Ed, methane alone may not "cut it" (pun intended?), but a blend of methane and, say, atomized lighter fluid, might be quite potent. You could design a carburation system that uses the force of the expelling methane to atomize the lighter fluid in to the chamber of the potato canon. You'd need a rig that would create a good, airtight seal on the methane discharge hose. You'd also need a good supply of lighter fluid, beans and hot chili peppers. If you run out of lighter fluid, you can use the methane alone as a back up. It would be easy to sneak this weapon anywhere. You could put the canon in a brown grocery bag and cover it with the potatoes, beans and peppers. If you get stopped, just tell them you're on your way to a chili-making contest.

[Scott Rosen]

ROTFLMAO!

Art, I think you're on to something. Ed, methane alone may not "cut it" (pun intended?), but a blend of methane and, say, atomized lighter fluid, might be quite potent. You could design a carburation system that uses the force of the expelling methane to atomize the lighter fluid in to the chamber of the potato canon. You'd need a rig that would create a good, airtight seal on the methane discharge hose. You'd also need a good supply of lighter fluid, beans and hot chili peppers. If you run out of lighter fluid, you can use the methane alone as a back up. It would be easy to sneak this weapon anywhere. You could put the canon in a brown grocery bag and cover it with the potatoes, beans and peppers. If you get stopped, just tell them you're on your way to a chili-making contest.

[bill hersey]

Frank,

First of all, I have to try and keep an unbiased approach on this stuff -- even though I am a big proponent of infusing alternate energies into the system to take the pressure off and help with the air.

What we know is that biodiesel can be made from other vegetable matter. It's cost is slightly less than diesel, which has just jumped another 8 censt/gallon out here. Soy is the top choice because it is easy to grow. What we understand is -- simply put -- that there is a lot of agricultural land in the U.S. and around the world that is worn out, not being used because of the grain markets, duties, whatever. But it's suitable for soy. It has been gigured that there is enough land for enough soy to at least greatly augment the diesel requirements. Another component: the positive economic impact on countries where they are chopping down hardwood to raise cattle, or have little skill in crop rotation. Easy and fast to grow, they say.

Some stuff from the show research teams, for gripping human interest:

-- Diesel exhaust (soot) was just named the #1 health hazard in California. It lingers at a bus stop, or wherever a truck stops, or over a road, for fifteen minutes, lodges in the lunges and is not absorbed.

The air INSIDE one of those big yellow school buses contains 9 times the pollution of a Stage 3 smog alert.

And yep, I've got a nice diesel sitting down in the bilges, which we try to keep as clean-burning as possible. But I am about to try the biodiesel myself. I'll let y'all know what happens.

Bill

[This message has been edited by bill hersey (edited 04-18-2001).]

[bill hersey]

Frank,

First of all, I have to try and keep an unbiased approach on this stuff -- even though I am a big proponent of infusing alternate energies into the system to take the pressure off and help with the air.

What we know is that biodiesel can be made from other vegetable matter. It's cost is slightly less than diesel, which has just jumped another 8 censt/gallon out here. Soy is the top choice because it is easy to grow. What we understand is -- simply put -- that there is a lot of agricultural land in the U.S. and around the world that is worn out, not being used because of the grain markets, duties, whatever. But it's suitable for soy. It has been gigured that there is enough land for enough soy to at least greatly augment the diesel requirements. Another component: the positive economic impact on countries where they are chopping down hardwood to raise cattle, or have little skill in crop rotation. Easy and fast to grow, they say.

Some stuff from the show research teams, for gripping human interest:

-- Diesel exhaust (soot) was just named the #1 health hazard in California. It lingers at a bus stop, or wherever a truck stops, or over a road, for fifteen minutes, lodges in the lunges and is not absorbed.

The air INSIDE one of those big yellow school buses contains 9 times the pollution of a Stage 3 smog alert.

And yep, I've got a nice diesel sitting down in the bilges, which we try to keep as clean-burning as possible. But I am about to try the biodiesel myself. I'll let y'all know what happens.

Bill

[This message has been edited by bill hersey (edited 04-18-2001).]

[bill hersey]

Frank,

First of all, I have to try and keep an unbiased approach on this stuff -- even though I am a big proponent of infusing alternate energies into the system to take the pressure off and help with the air.

What we know is that biodiesel can be made from other vegetable matter. It's cost is slightly less than diesel, which has just jumped another 8 censt/gallon out here. Soy is the top choice because it is easy to grow. What we understand is -- simply put -- that there is a lot of agricultural land in the U.S. and around the world that is worn out, not being used because of the grain markets, duties, whatever. But it's suitable for soy. It has been gigured that there is enough land for enough soy to at least greatly augment the diesel requirements. Another component: the positive economic impact on countries where they are chopping down hardwood to raise cattle, or have little skill in crop rotation. Easy and fast to grow, they say.

Some stuff from the show research teams, for gripping human interest:

-- Diesel exhaust (soot) was just named the #1 health hazard in California. It lingers at a bus stop, or wherever a truck stops, or over a road, for fifteen minutes, lodges in the lunges and is not absorbed.

The air INSIDE one of those big yellow school buses contains 9 times the pollution of a Stage 3 smog alert.

And yep, I've got a nice diesel sitting down in the bilges, which we try to keep as clean-burning as possible. But I am about to try the biodiesel myself. I'll let y'all know what happens.

Bill

[This message has been edited by bill hersey (edited 04-18-2001).]

[Keith Wilson]

Another advantage - little if any impact on carbon dioxide levels in the atmosphere (although after the past winter, I'm beginning to wonder if a little global warming might not be a good thing). The plants absorb CO2, convert it into hydrocarbons, we burn the hydrocarbons and release the carbon dioxide. There is at least a small chance that the stuff could be very important in a few years, (or maybe a few hundred).

[Keith Wilson]

Another advantage - little if any impact on carbon dioxide levels in the atmosphere (although after the past winter, I'm beginning to wonder if a little global warming might not be a good thing). The plants absorb CO2, convert it into hydrocarbons, we burn the hydrocarbons and release the carbon dioxide. There is at least a small chance that the stuff could be very important in a few years, (or maybe a few hundred).