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Thread: Hvalsoe 18

  1. #1
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    Default Hvalsoe 18



    This is where you'll find information about the design and build of the Hvalsoe 18, designed by Eric Hvalsoe and (currently being) built by me, your gracious build thread host.

    This is hull No. 1.

    As backround, The Hvalsoe 18 is the third in a design series of Sail & Oar boats (HV13, HV16) by Eric Hvalsoe.

    Here's a few details about the new design:
    18'4 LOA
    5'3 beam

    You could call this the beta/development boat. Many of the construction details remain under discussion. I'm guessing that once I'm done he'll have plans ready for the general public.

    At this point, Eric has designed the hull only. I have the plans and offsets, which we lofted the boat together at his shop several weeks ago. If anyone is hoping to learn about lofting, check out Eric's lofting classes at CWB. I took one seven or eight years ago, then went home and lofted Big Food. This was a great refresher. I finally have a useful understanding of how to use diagonals.



    Afterwards, back at my little shop, I had a chance to become extremely familiar with the Gougeon Bros. description of how to deduct planking bevels. (Seriously, figuring this out mapped new pathways in my brain. But I did finally figured it out.)



    Since then, Eric has patiently worked with me to figure out a number of construction details. I've sourced material, pulled stem assembly patterns, cut out the backbone, and began working through the endless details that have to be decided when starting a new boat.



    Today, Eric came by the shop a little after 7 a.m. and we lifted station molds for the building jig. I am endlessly entertained by the cutting of rolling bevels on a bandsaw. Luckily I have three more station molds to go.

    In the meanwhile, here's a few details about my particular build:
    - glued lap (at my request, though this boat would be fine either planked traditionally or in plywood ... backbone details might differ though depending on construction styles.)
    - buoyancy chambers (at my request, mostly in case James takes the boat for a sail)
    - 9mm planking
    - 12mm bulkheads

    And it will have all the other necessary Sail & Oar features:
    - lug yawl (I'm going to incorporate the 120+ square feet Sooty Tern rig into my build. I already made the sail rig from a Sailrite kit, which is why I'm not waiting for Eric to design a rig; if you buy plans from Eric sometime in the future it will have a rig designed by Eric.)
    - spruce birdsmouth spars
    - foiled kick-up rudder and centerboard
    - oars, probably about 9'6 or so. I'll need to test some sizes out to see what works on this boat.

    So ... does anybody have any questions?

    I may or may not answer them, depending of course on my mood and whether or not I know the answer. (Same goes for Eric, who will have much to say about the development of his new design.)
    Last edited by Yeadon; 05-31-2017 at 10:52 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by James McMullen View Post
    Yeadon is right, of course.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Hvalsoe 18

    What the boat in the back ground , something Erik's restoring?

    Nice poke at James LOL, the buoyancy chambers!!! Brilliant!

    Why not traditional planked? Does it save $$? To hard to source good lumber??

    Good luck, we'll all be following along.

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    Default Re: Hvalsoe 18

    Whoa! You're already breaking the code of omertà? Wasn't expecting a thread like this for many months.

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    Default Re: Hvalsoe 18

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Girouard View Post
    What the boat in the back ground , something Erik's restoring?

    Nice poke at James LOL, the buoyancy chambers!!! Brilliant!

    Why not traditional planked? Does it save $$? To hard to source good lumber??

    Good luck, we'll all be following along.
    It's not that tough to get decent CVG cedar around the Seattle area. Cost of planking isn't that huge of the overall build cost, either. The reason I chose plywood is that buoyancy chambers are difficult to achieve on a traditionally planked cedar boat. Too much movement in the wood.

    Quote Originally Posted by James McMullen View Post
    Whoa! You're already breaking the code of omertà? Wasn't expecting a thread like this for many months.
    Thank you for your question.
    Quote Originally Posted by James McMullen View Post
    Yeadon is right, of course.

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    Default Re: Hvalsoe 18

    Bene, bene, mille grazie for starting this thread, Tim. And all due nods to Eric for getting the design enough along so that hull #1 ( you really should name her Beta ) could be started.

    This is gonna be good. I remeasured my build space today; I'd have JUST enough room. Retro, Satanas.
    Gerard>
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    Default Re: Hvalsoe 18

    Name her Beta? I thought her name was going to be Industry Standard.

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    Default Re: Hvalsoe 18

    Wait! I thought it was going to be the Silent H. We must have the name straight before this project can go any farther.

    Although, if you wanted to refer the name to committee while the build continued I'd be okay with that.
    -Jim

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    Default Re: Hvalsoe 18

    The Yeadon speaks! Don't startle him or he'll go silent like The H.

    I measured my shop and it's 18" too small. I guess that gives Eric plenty of time to sort the details before I buy plans.
    There's the plan, then there's what actually happens.

    Ben Sebens, RN

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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BBSebens View Post
    The Yeadon speaks! Don't startle him or he'll go silent like The H. I measured my shop and it's 18" too small. I guess that gives Eric plenty of time to sort the details before I buy plans.
    What is the distance corner to corner? My work bay goes from front left to back right, leaving two triangular work bays around the boat.
    Quote Originally Posted by James McMullen View Post
    Yeadon is right, of course.

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    Default Re: Hvalsoe 18

    Looking forward to seeing the transom shape on this one. Have you lined off yet, how many planks? Cheers

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    Default Re: Hvalsoe 18

    Quote Originally Posted by BBSebens View Post
    The Yeadon speaks! Don't startle him or he'll go silent like The H.

    I measured my shop and it's 18" too small. I guess that gives Eric plenty of time to sort the details before I buy plans.
    I measured my shop space and found I have 36'. So, Eric, when are we going to see the Hvalsoe34?
    I was born on a wooden boat that I built myself.

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    Default Re: Hvalsoe 18

    So far, I see that the stem is a departure from the HV13/16 stem. Much more curve in the stem to keel transition. I'm looking forward to seeing the progress. The true story will be told once we see the station molds and backbone set up. This should be exciting!
    I was born on a wooden boat that I built myself.

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    Default Re: Hvalsoe 18

    We already settled on a name:

    The Hvalsoe 5200
    (brought to you in Spanish Simulcast by Clyde America)
    Quote Originally Posted by Yeadon View Post
    Double-enders are optimistic.

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    Default Re: Hvalsoe 18

    Quote Originally Posted by skaraborgcraft View Post
    Looking forward to seeing the transom shape on this one. Have you lined off yet, how many planks? Cheers
    We'll be lining off in a week or so. We're aiming to avoid faceting the station molds, to achieve a nice round bottom, and to build a boat that is lovely to look at. My best guess is that we're headed for 10 planks, though nine is plausible, too. From an personal aesthetic perspective I'm not a big fan of the four/five/six plank plywood-epoxy boats, though I do think a nice shape can be achieve at five or six. Even though this boat is exactly that, a plywood-epoxy boat, I want it to have traditional Hvalsoe traits.

    The transom shape is extremely similar to the HV16. The boat is a little fuller aft than the 16, so that probably changed the shape just a touch. I'm really interested in sitting it next to a 13, though. I tend to think the two will have striking similarities. Both are fuller than the 16. (I wonder what the prismatic coefficient would be for all three boats?)


    Quote Originally Posted by Rich Jones View Post
    So far, I see that the stem is a departure from the HV13/16 stem. Much more curve in the stem to keel transition. I'm looking forward to seeing the progress. The true story will be told once we see the station molds and backbone set up. This should be exciting!
    I'm building the boat with an inner/outer stem assembly. The photo you see above only shows the inner stem and forefoot/knee. For this boat, Eric did fair out the transition from the stem into the forefoot. He first did this on his own boat, Bandwagon, a year or so ago. We worked on this shape on the lofting floor for a long time. Above the waterline, I think the stem will have a very signature Hvalsoe look. This was by design. Every designer has a few visual cues that truly make it theirs ... the stem, transom, construction details of knees/thwarts/backbone. Eric worked hard to keep these visual cues intact.
    Last edited by Yeadon; 05-27-2014 at 11:43 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by James McMullen View Post
    Yeadon is right, of course.

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    Default Re: Hvalsoe 18

    9-10 planks,that should be sweet!

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    Default Re: Hvalsoe 18

    Always exciting to see a new build get going. However, I do wonder if you thought about the impact starting a boat at thebeginning of our oh-so-short fair weather sailing season is going to have on your time aboard Big Food this summer?
    Steve

    Boats, like whiskey, are all good.
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    Default Re: Hvalsoe 18

    Fair weather is for sissies, just like outboards and cabins! Tim's got rubber boots.

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    Default Re: Hvalsoe 18

    Sold your Stone Horse did you?
    Steve

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    Default Re: Hvalsoe 18

    No. Not yet. But I totally feel like a sell-out every time I fire up that motor.

    But we're supposed to be talking about Tim's boat here. He's not a lying hypocrite like me. Tim is all meat, and no potato.

    So we oughtta come up with a good marketing slogan. How about:

    The HV-18. Half as Pointy, Twice as Good
    obr /> Hvalsoe-18 Hsail & Hoar--Keep them H's silent!
    or even
    The all-new 2014 model HV, Now Longer than Ever

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    Default Re: Hvalsoe 18

    Awesome! I've been waiting to see this thread. Very cool.

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    Default Re: Hvalsoe 18

    Given that the bows on both the HV13 and HV16 are really quite lovely, I am anticipating the same for the 18. Am hoping for a sexy transom as well.
    Last edited by Gerarddm; 05-28-2014 at 07:34 PM. Reason: typo
    Gerard>
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    Default Re: Hvalsoe 18

    Hvalsoe Hsail & Hoar Jihad keeps with the palatal alliteration.
    Quote Originally Posted by Yeadon View Post
    Double-enders are optimistic.

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    Default Re: Hvalsoe 18

    Quote Originally Posted by stromborg View Post
    Always exciting to see a new build get going. However, I do wonder if you thought about the impact starting a boat at thebeginning of our oh-so-short fair weather sailing season is going to have on your time aboard Big Food this summer?
    The build might restrict my sail & oar time a little bit, but it's not as if building a Sail & Oar boat is any sort of hardship. Instead it's more of a luxury. I'm okay taking my time as long as I'm assertive with the time that do set aside to build.

    I'd still like to get out this summer for three to five weekends plus a number of evening sails. Additionally, I'll want to do a longer trip before PT. Tentatively, we're planning a trip around Whidbey, but I don't know if that's really the cruise I want to do. We'll see. I'll need to sit down with a chart and work through the likely anchorages. It's seems awfully exposed down near Useless Bay and Bush Point.
    Quote Originally Posted by James McMullen View Post
    Yeadon is right, of course.

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    Default Re: Hvalsoe 18

    This should be a fun thread. Congrats Yeadon! If you get bored with that completed Sooty Tern sail feel free to mail it my way.

    Neil

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    Default Re: Hvalsoe 18

    Tim, if you do get around to the longer trips, would love to hear (and see) about it. Very cool beans about the build--really looking forward.......
    Regards,
    J

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    Default Re: Hvalsoe 18

    What is really hilarious is that I wrote 'inside of plank' on that plan sheet. The lines were first drawn outside to a rabbet, thus the deductions. Dyslexia has been know to occur with brilliant minds.

    There have been a couple of instances where home builders have radiused the sharp toe of the stem on the original HV drawings, 16 or 13. That's interesting. I can think of a list of pros and cons, but in part I think it is an aesthetic preference. I decided to channel Rich Jones on this and go with the raduised flow. It does present an attractive profile. I'm happy with the small adjustment made on Bandwagon.

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    Default Re: Hvalsoe 18

    I can't help but think that with the square thing on the end of the Hvalsoe18 that this project can only end in tears. Sure ought to be perty though.

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    Default Re: Hvalsoe 18

    I'm another looking forward to following this build! All the best to both of you.
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    Default Re: Hvalsoe 18

    Quote Originally Posted by Gopez View Post
    Excellent! The much anticipated HV 18 project is here at last!
    What a relief. I was getting so dysfunctionally distracted by all "The James" drama.
    A breath of fresh air...this will be.

    If you have time for a couple of questions....

    - Have you purchased the plywood yet? Would love to know all the details (where, species, stamps, number of ply's for the 9mm & 12mm).
    - Buoyancy chambers...on the ends only?...or on the sides? Both?
    - Oarlock hardware/arrangement you are thinking of?
    - Total epoxy encapsulation? or...let it breath?
    - Using any glass on the bottom?

    Looking forward to following this!!!

    Your first question is about 1/2 answered on Richard Jones HV-13 build thread a recent post Tim made over the weekend. I tried to drag it over here , but with a I pad you , or at least I can't , use the multiple quote thingie to bring a post from a different thread to another thread.

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    Default Re: Hvalsoe 18

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Hvalsoe View Post
    What is really hilarious is that I wrote 'inside of plank' on that plan sheet. The lines were first drawn outside to a rabbet, thus the deductions. Dyslexia has been know to occur with brilliant minds.

    There have been a couple of instances where home builders have radiused the sharp toe of the stem on the original HV drawings, 16 or 13. That's interesting. I can think of a list of pros and cons, but in part I think it is an aesthetic preference. I decided to channel Rich Jones on this and go with the raduised flow. It does present an attractive profile. I'm happy with the small adjustment made on Bandwagon.
    I changed the radius of the stem purely for the aesthetic look of it. Every other line and curve on the plan flowed beautiful one into the other, except for that.
    If indeed I had some influence in the stem profile design, then I'll naturally be expecting a HUGE royalty for every set of plans sold. My team of lawyers will contact you shortly. As for the number of planks on the new HV18, I say the more the merrier. With the HV13, Eric first designed it with ten planks per side, then reduced it to nine. I upped it to the original ten in my build for two reasons. #1 I really like the more traditional look. #2 With the narrower planks, my clamps fit!
    I was born on a wooden boat that I built myself.

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    Default Re: Hvalsoe 18

    Quote Originally Posted by Gopez View Post
    Excellent! The much anticipated HV 18 project is here at last!
    What a relief. I was getting so dysfunctionally distracted by all "The James" drama.
    A breath of fresh air...this will be.

    If you have time for a couple of questions....

    - Have you purchased the plywood yet? Would love to know all the details (where, species, stamps, number of ply's for the 9mm & 12mm).
    - Buoyancy chambers...on the ends only?...or on the sides? Both?
    - Oarlock hardware/arrangement you are thinking of?
    - Total epoxy encapsulation? or...let it breath?
    - Using any glass on the bottom?

    Looking forward to following this!!!
    I bought the plywood a week or two ago at Crosscut Hardwoods in South Seattle. I had planned on buying it at Edensaw, but then one afternoon I found myself standing there in front of the marine plywood at Crosscut. I figured, why not right now? So I started sifting through the various types that they had. I knew that I wanted the stuff marked Lloyd's Register / Joubert ... and that Occume was what I was looking for. They had cheaper plywoods, but the cost of the planking on a boat like this isn't that much of the overall pie. Total cost was around $1,100 (including tax) for the plywood. (Six sheets of 9mm for the planking; three sheets of 12mm for the bulkheads and transom.)

    Here's what I bought.





    I still need a couple more sheets for the centerboard case, centerboard, and rudder. My case will either be 6mm glassed on the inside, or 9mm as is. I'm not yet sure. Eric votes for 9mm, but I haven't yet totally decided.

    Currently, I'm working on station molds and the strongback set up. I'm using 5/8th (I think) plywood underlayment for the station molds. My strongback is comprised of a pair of 20 foot 2x10s that used to be bleachers at Nathan Hale High School in Wedgwood. I got them both at the RE-Store in Ballard for a song.


    I believe you're looking at station molds nos. 1, 4, and 5, as well my back bench which is where I stack random stuff. Boots. Fluorescent lights. Garden fertilizer.

    I'll explain the process of creating those station molds on another day. There's a couple different ways to go about it, and we'll be utilizing all of them before it's over.
    Quote Originally Posted by James McMullen View Post
    Yeadon is right, of course.

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    Default Re: Hvalsoe 18

    Quote Originally Posted by Gopez View Post
    Excellent! The much anticipated HV 18 project is here at last!
    What a relief. I was getting so dysfunctionally distracted by all "The James" drama.
    A breath of fresh air...this will be.

    If you have time for a couple of questions....

    - Have you purchased the plywood yet? Would love to know all the details (where, species, stamps, number of ply's for the 9mm & 12mm).
    - Buoyancy chambers...on the ends only?...or on the sides? Both?
    - Oarlock hardware/arrangement you are thinking of?
    - Total epoxy encapsulation? or...let it breath?
    - Using any glass on the bottom?

    Looking forward to following this!!!
    Let's see ... buoyancy chambers.

    At this point, I'm just aiming for buoyancy chambers on the ends. I have a pretty good idea of where the fore bulkhead will be (right at station 2), but I think Eric wants to do a bit of figuring on exact location of the aft bulkhead. It'll probably be right around station 6. When you have a boat set up like this, you tend to steer/pilot from around the area of the rear bulkhead. It's just sitting there waiting for you to sit on it. And so you do. And it's comfortable. But you really don't want to be sitting too far back in a little boat like this. You don't want the hull to squat. So, while there's the question of how much buoyancy do you need in each tank (very roughly, I believe the overall buoyancy needs to be a bit more than the overall space where water might end up inside the boat) ... there's also the question of do you have enough stability back there under the aft run to support your weight as you sail. (I tend to think Eric could explain this a bit better.)

    I'm not planning on side chambers, though I could come back later and add them. I want to sleep on the floor next to the centerboard, and I don't want anything getting in the way of a decent night's sleep. Also, for capsize recovery, I'm not sure they're necessary. I know that others have differing opinions. (They might even be right, too.)

    Oarlock hardware arrangement ...
    I'm going to set this boat up for single-handing. One rowing thwart set near the aft end of the centerboard case. I'm not exactly sure, honestly, where this thwart needs to be located. I'm tempted to build the boat then do a float test to work out a number of details, including where exactly I ought to sit.

    How will I treat the planking/bottom ...
    I'll probably glass the garboard. Maybe the next plank too. On another thread Slug mentioned that he used aluminum powder mixed into epoxy. I thought that was interesting. Another forumite had recommended graphite, but Slug pointed out that while graphite may make things slippier, aluminum would make it harder. I haven't really decided. That's another decision for another day. Otherwise, the planking will be painted. That's all. I don't know exactly which paint I'll use. Over the last six or eight months I've used oil paints from "Fine Paints of Europe" and have been really impressed. In the past though, Big Food generally got one part Interlux, flattened for that non-shiny traditional look. (Though I like to leave the sheer glossy. Takes the eye away from all the dings and scratches.)
    Quote Originally Posted by James McMullen View Post
    Yeadon is right, of course.

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    Default Re: Hvalsoe 18

    Thanks for starting this most excellent thread.

    Since this is the longest boat in the Hvalsoe, Hsail and Hoar series, please consider the name, Hviagra for your new boat!

    Kevin
    There are two kinds of boaters: those who have run aground, and those who lie about it.

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    Default Re: Hvalsoe 18

    Quote Originally Posted by Yeadon View Post
    s
    And it will have all the other necessary Sail & Oar features:

    - foiled kick-up rudder and centerboard
    How did you shape your foils for Big Food? Are you planning on using the same method?
    Quote Originally Posted by Yeadon View Post
    Double-enders are optimistic.

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