Results 1 to 31 of 31

Thread: Mister Kroogm'n tells it striaght

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    N. Fal on Cape Cod
    Posts
    16,921

    Default Mister Kroogm'n tells it striaght

    We have traded partying for educating our children:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/13/o...ools-bars.html
    A society predicated on the assumption that everyone in it should want to get rich is not well situated to become either ethical or imaginative.

    Photographer of sailing and sailboats
    And other things, too.
    http://www.landsedgephoto.com

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2019
    Location
    Richmond, VA
    Posts
    656

    Default Re: Mister Kroogm'n tells it striaght

    Sounds intriguing, but the paywall on the NYT prevents reading it. Care to either c&p or summarize the message?

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct 1999
    Location
    St. Paul, MN, USA
    Posts
    55,788

    Default Re: Mister Kroogm'n tells it striaght

    Here you go.

    America Drank Away Its Children’s Future
    As the school year looms, the pandemic is still raging.
    By Paul Krugman

    A brief history of the past four months in America:

    Experts: Don’t rush to reopen, this isn’t over.

    Donald Trump: LIBERATE!

    Covid-19: Wheee!

    Trump officials: Here’s our opposition research on Anthony Fauci.

    And we’re now faced with an agonizing choice: Do we reopen schools, creating risks of a further viral explosion, or do we keep children home, with severe negative effects on their learning?

    None of this had to happen. Other countries stuck with their lockdowns long enough to reduce infections to rates much lower than those prevailing here; Covid-19 death rates per capita in the European Union are only a 10th those in the United States — and falling — while ours are rising fast. As a result, they’re in a position to reopen schools fairly safely.

    And the experience of the Northeast, the first major epicenter of the U.S. pandemic, shows that we could have achieved something similar here. Death rates are way down, although still higher than in Europe; on Saturday, for the first time since March, New York City reported zero Covid-19 deaths.

    Would a longer lockdown have been economically sustainable? Yes.

    It’s true that strong social distancing requirements led to high unemployment and hurt many businesses. But even America, with its ramshackle social safety net, was able to provide enough disaster relief — don’t call it stimulus! — to protect most of its citizens from severe hardship.

    Thanks largely to expanded unemployment benefits, poverty didn’t soar during the lockdown. By some measures it may even have gone down.

    True, there were holes in that safety net, and many people did suffer. But we could have patched those holes. Yes, emergency relief costs a lot of money, but we can afford it: The federal government has been borrowing huge sums, but interest rates have remained near historical lows.

    Put it this way: At its most severe, the lockdown seems to have reduced G.D.P. by a little over 10 percent. During World War II, America spent more than 30 percent of G.D.P. on defense, for more than three years. Why couldn’t we absorb a much smaller cost for a few months?

    So doing what was necessary to bring the coronavirus under control would have been annoying, but entirely feasible.

    But that was the road not taken. Instead, many states not only rushed to reopen, they reopened stupidly. Instead of being treated as a cheap, effective way to fight contagion, face masks became a front in the culture war. Activities that posed an obvious risk of feeding the pandemic went unchecked: Large gatherings were permitted, bars reopened.

    And the cost of those parties and open bars extends beyond the thousands of Americans who will be killed or suffer permanent health damage as a result of Covid-19’s resurgence. The botched reopening has also endangered something that, unlike drinking in groups, can’t be suspended without doing long-run damage: in-person education.

    Some activities hold up fairly well when moved online. I suspect that there will be a lot fewer people flying cross-country to stare at PowerPoints than there were pre-Covid, even once we finally beat this virus.

    Education isn’t one of those activities. We now have overwhelming confirmation of something we already suspected: For many, perhaps most students there is no substitute for actually being in a classroom.

    But rooms full of students are potential Petri dishes, even if the young are less likely to die from Covid-19 than the old. Other countries have managed to reopen schools relatively safely — but they did so with much lower infection rates than currently prevail in America, and with adequate testing, which we still don’t have in many hot spots.

    So we’re now facing a terrible, unnecessary dilemma. If we reopen in-person education, we risk feeding an out-of-control pandemic. If we don’t, we impair the development of millions of American students, inflicting long-term damage on their lives and careers.

    And the reason we’re in this position is that states, cheered on by the Trump administration, rushed to allow large parties and reopen bars. In a real sense America drank away its children’s future.

    Now what? At this point there are probably as many infected Americans as there were in March. So what we should be doing is admitting that we blew it, and doing a severe lockdown all over again — and this time listening to the experts before reopening. Unfortunately, it’s now too late to avoid disrupting education, but the sooner we deal with this the sooner we can get our society back on track.

    But we don’t have the kind of leaders we need. Instead, we have the likes of Donald Trump and Ron DeSantis, Florida’s governor, politicians who refuse to listen to experts and never admit having been wrong.

    So while there have been a few grudging policy adjustments, the main response we’re seeing to colossal policy failure is a hysterical attempt to shift the blame. Some officials are trying to besmirch Dr. Fauci’s reputation; others are diving into unhinged conspiracy theories.

    As a result, the outlook is grim. This pandemic is going to get worse before it gets better, and the nation will suffer permanent damage.
    "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations,
    for nature cannot be fooled."

    Richard Feynman

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    downward bound
    Posts
    5,004

    Default Re: Mister Kroogm'n tells it striaght

    Usa! Usa! Usa! Usa!

  5. #5
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    the hills
    Posts
    56,342

    Default Re: Mister Kroogm'n tells it striaght

    Just think if something really catastrophic happened and Trump was still in charge.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    northwestern Wisconsin
    Posts
    6,662

    Default Re: Mister Kroogm'n tells it striaght

    My fear is a bit different than the op-ed's point, which is that we now face a dilemma.

    My fear is, it won't be a dilemma (in the sense of being a difficult choice). I think schools will be pressured to re-open for in-person classes despite the legitimate concerns regarding safety of students and staff, and for how in-person schools will increase community spread. This will seem like a no-brainer to the same people who thought it was perfectly reasonable for states to begin re-opening without meeting a single prerequisite in the guidelines for safe re-opening. And Wisconsin, at least, is further away from meeting the prerequisites now than they were in May.

    The 7-day average of daily new cases in Wisconsin has risen steadily since June 17, setting almost daily new records since July 1. It's now at 697.

    I think schools will open regardless, and the pandemic will explode further.

    Tom
    Last edited by WI-Tom; 07-14-2020 at 11:45 AM.
    You don't have to be prepared as long as you're willing to suffer the consequences.

    www.tompamperin.com

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    northwestern Wisconsin
    Posts
    6,662

    Default Re: Mister Kroogm'n tells it striaght

    Another thought:

    8% of all confirmed COVID-19 cases in Wisconsin have appeared in people between the ages of 10 and 19.

    So, with 697 new cases per day (7-day average), that's 55 cases in schoolchildren. Every day. But wait--that's 55 cases per day when school is NOT in session.

    What's going to happen if schools do open again despite increasing community spread?

    Tom
    You don't have to be prepared as long as you're willing to suffer the consequences.

    www.tompamperin.com

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    N. Fal on Cape Cod
    Posts
    16,921

    Default Re: Mister Kroogm'n tells it striaght

    Quote Originally Posted by kgr1 View Post
    Sounds intriguing, but the paywall on the NYT prevents reading it. Care to either c&p or summarize the message?
    $17/mth to subscribe with real offers to start. You might find it useful to do so.
    A society predicated on the assumption that everyone in it should want to get rich is not well situated to become either ethical or imaginative.

    Photographer of sailing and sailboats
    And other things, too.
    http://www.landsedgephoto.com

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Frankfort, MI
    Posts
    8,855

    Default Re: Mister Kroogm'n tells it striaght

    Quote Originally Posted by LeeG View Post
    Just think if something really catastrophic happened and Trump was still in charge.

    I'm going to risk it and ask a wacky, goofy, just-way-out-from-left-field question...

    That couldn't possibly have beeen sarcasm, right?



    Jeff C

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Toronto Canada
    Posts
    1,579

    Default Re: Mister Kroogm'n tells it striaght

    I subscribe to the NYT, the Guardian, and the Toronto Star.
    i never watch TV

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Aug 2019
    Location
    Richmond, VA
    Posts
    656

    Default Re: Mister Kroogm'n tells it striaght

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Wilson View Post
    Thank you, Keith, I appreciate that.

    It's an interesting and skillfully done polemic, but some of its claims leave me somewhat uncomfortable in regard to actual truthfulness. And judging from the immediate string of remarks posted above, few here would be interested in examining the essay line by line for political bias.

    Quote Originally Posted by elf View Post
    $17/mth to subscribe with real offers to start. You might find it useful to do so.
    I've considered it, but then there's also the WaPo, LAT, etc., to be considered. I receive email excerpts from the NYT, but of course those are only what they want me to read. An annual fee of $204 to be fed propaganda and NY local and society reporting doesn't really appeal. A more reasonable fee to receive only national and international stories intact might hook me (and I've had that discussion with the subscription department), but they're not interested; it's all or none. So they end up preaching to their choir, lose their opportunity to proselytize me, and I get my news piecemeal from less biased sources.

    Quote Originally Posted by LeeG View Post
    Just think if something really catastrophic happened and Trump was still in charge.
    Lord, I hear ya.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Alameda, CA
    Posts
    16,215

    Default Re: Mister Kroogm'n tells it striaght

    The truth is our young people are killing us. They can not help wanting to be together. Thats what they do. Get over blaming others about bars and taverns and Missouri pool parties... it is our young folks who need connection and friends that are getting together. Have you forgotten your own youth? Next time you are going out to grab your essentials in your car - look around you - it is teens and twenty somethings four to a car from outside their bubble getting a few hours together. they will share space, drink from the same beer and smoke the same joint. Then they will come home to their families, cover their shifts symptomless at the grocery store, Starbucks, pizza place, amazon fulfillment center, or do special food deliveries cravings most everyone wants. I am getting tired of finger pointing others spreading the virus when it is all of us who in our own selfish way created a country that never cared about affordable healthcare for all, pays the lowest wages possible, tries to hold back the nature discourse of human beings and lies about solutions coming soon. <br>
    <br>
    Do you really think we are not going to do what we did during the Spanish flu epidemic 100 years ago? Do you think we can strangle the economy for much longer? Yeah, kids are going back to school so their parents can work if they still have or look for a job. The cold reality is none of us are safe and the chances of you getting the virus are good if not this Summer then in the Fall. We are already killing the meeting places that are were special. What we are left with in the US is a rising depression, little remaining infrastructure, 10s of millions unemployed and a piling of debt that no one is even taking about. <br>
    <br>
    Work on staying healthy. If you can grab a glass of wine using judgment. Wear a mask. Hope you get quality nurses,msomeone like Norma, Lee's wife, when you get sick. Nearly as important, prepare to get to work because debt collectors, mental illness and a collapsed economy with no where to go will really suck if we don't.
    Last edited by Ted Hoppe; 07-14-2020 at 01:37 PM.
    Play the opening like a book, the middle game like a magician, and the endgame like a machine. – Rudolph Spielmann

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Nebraska
    Posts
    24,293

    Default Re: Mister Kroogm'n tells it striaght

    Nice diatribe, Ted.

    But then, look at Europe, NZ, Australia, Canada. Rumor has it - they have young people, too.
    There's a lot of things they didn't tell me when I signed on with this outfit....

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Utah and SF Bay
    Posts
    1,947

    Default Re: Mister Kroogm'n tells it striaght

    Quote Originally Posted by kgr1 View Post
    An annual fee of $204 to be fed propaganda and NY local and society reporting doesn't really appeal. A more reasonable fee to receive only national and international stories intact might hook me.
    They run promotions all the time. I'm paying $4.00 per month for all access.

    Their current rate is $2.00 per week: https://www.nytimes.com/subscription...Id=7LR99&gclid

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Alameda, CA
    Posts
    16,215

    Default Re: Mister Kroogm'n tells it striaght

    Quote Originally Posted by George Jung View Post
    Nice diatribe, Ted.

    But then, look at Europe, NZ, Australia, Canada. Rumor has it - they have young people, too.
    They shut down during winter - we did not. We let out young folks out before containment was secured. States like Florida and Arizona were wide open. The president lied about containment. Our leaders failed us. Clearly - The cat is out of the bag here George. New Zealand is a small population with folks spread pretty far apart. Once the Covid hit them they shut down. We on the other hand were allowing 5 to 10 direct flights from Wuhan every day and allowing the passengers to go thier US homes and communities.

    Seriously - do you think this country can afford another 3 month shut down? I do not. I think our young people will not stand for it. Colleges and universities are demanding via the courts to allow students to gather back on campus. I think business leaders do not. I do not think banks and debt holders give a damn about the health and safety of 2 percent of the population. Our whole system is based on spending, using and connection. I have a 20 year old son who tries to stay home but a possible booty call from a cute willing girlfriend, hanging with the fellas or need to play basketball far exceeds our prime directive to stay home and no contact. As humans we do not do that well. Heck even the old folks who receive daily delivered meals delivered by my son are desperate for connection - they take off their mask and just want to have human contact. We are not turning back to the way it was but it will be an evolution to where we will be in the fall.
    Last edited by Ted Hoppe; 07-14-2020 at 01:55 PM.
    Play the opening like a book, the middle game like a magician, and the endgame like a machine. – Rudolph Spielmann

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    30,517

    Default Re: Mister Kroogm'n tells it striaght

    The American people remind me increasingly of spoiled children who stomp their feet and want the world to be the way they want it to be. They want to party. They don't want to wear masks. They want to go to restaurants and bars. They don't want to pay taxes. This is where they stop their feet...

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    downward bound
    Posts
    5,004

    Default Re: Mister Kroogm'n tells it striaght

    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Hoppe View Post
    They shut down during winter - we did not. We let out young folks out before containment was secured. States like Florida and Arizona were wide open. The president lied about containment. Our leaders failed us. Clearly - The cat is out of the bag here George. New Zealand is a small population with folks spread pretty far apart. Once the Covid hit them they shut down. We on the other hand were allowing 5 to 10 direct flights from Wuhan every day and allowing the passengers to go thier US homes and communities.

    Seriously - do you think this country can afford another 3 month shut down? I do not. I think our young people will not stand for it. Colleges and universities are demanding via the courts to allow students to gather back on campus. I think business leaders do not. I do not think banks and debt holders give a damn about the health and safety of 2 percent of the population. Our whole system is based on spending, using and connection. I have a 20 year old son who tries to stay home but a possible booty call from a cute willing girlfriend, hanging with the fellas or need to play basketball far exceeds our prime directive to stay home and no contact. As humans we do not do that well. Heck even the old folks who receive daily delivered meals delivered by my son are desperate for connection - they take off their mask and just want to have human contact. We are not turning back to the way it was but it will be an evolution to where we will be in the fall.
    this is stupid. We can’t afford a multi year rolling failure like you are a tantruming for, because things ain’t going back to what you want until it’s gone.

    conservatives/republicans are delusional.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Western Washington
    Posts
    3,348

    Default Re: Mister Kroogm'n tells it striaght

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Lesser View Post
    They run promotions all the time. I'm paying $4.00 per month for all access.

    Their current rate is $2.00 per week: https://www.nytimes.com/subscription...Id=7LR99&gclid
    I enjoyed that promotion and considered it worthwhile for the number of stories that I read, but there was much that I didn't read. Keep an eye on your account. You might not like the deal that they automatically give you at the end of your current promotion.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Utah and SF Bay
    Posts
    1,947

    Default Re: Mister Kroogm'n tells it striaght

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Wright View Post
    Keep an eye on your account. You might not like the deal that they automatically give you at the end of your current promotion.
    True enough. Last year, my wife had the $2.00 per week promotion. We let the subscription lapse when it ran out. A month later, I was able to sign up for the $1.00 per week promotion.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Alameda, CA
    Posts
    16,215

    Default Re: Mister Kroogm'n tells it striaght

    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh Conway View Post
    this is stupid. We can’t afford a multi year rolling failure like you are a tantruming for, because things ain’t going back to what you want until it’s gone.

    conservatives/republicans are delusional.
    The business of America is business.

    You obviously did not read American history regarding the Spanish flu.

    None of you pensioners want to give up your retirement do you? What are you prepared to give up to ensure everyone has got what they need, aren't left behind, have proper security, have incomes to cover debt they can not afford and get the proper education they deserve when there is no tax revenue and limited commerce?

    From the threads above it seems that paying for news from the New York Times is too expensive... So we already know somefolks have their limitations on what is worth keeping.
    Last edited by Ted Hoppe; 07-14-2020 at 02:22 PM.
    Play the opening like a book, the middle game like a magician, and the endgame like a machine. – Rudolph Spielmann

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    northwestern Wisconsin
    Posts
    6,662

    Default Re: Mister Kroogm'n tells it striaght

    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Hoppe View Post
    None of you pensioners want to give up your retirement do you? What are you prepared to give up to ensure everyone has got what they need, aren't left behind, have proper security, have incomes to cover debt they can not afford and get the proper education they deserve when there is no tax revenue and limited commerce?
    I'm no pensioner, not by a long shot, but here's what I'd give up happily:

    1. A very very large chunk of the U.S. military budget.
    2. Tax concessions to the wealthy--how aboutreturning to a 75% top marginal tax rate, or higher?
    3. Investment income being taxed at lower rates than wages.
    4. Estate tax laws that let the wealthy inherit more than, say, $1 million without being taxed.

    And:

    5. I'd happily give up EVERY SINGLE PENNY of my net worth over the first $5 million dollars in a nationwide effort to handle our crisis and pay down the debt--surely the vast majority of everyone else will agree to that as well, yes?

    Tom
    You don't have to be prepared as long as you're willing to suffer the consequences.

    www.tompamperin.com

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    oklahoma
    Posts
    6,308

    Default Re: Mister Kroogm'n tells it striaght

    Quote Originally Posted by WI-Tom View Post
    I'm no pensioner, not by a long shot, but here's what I'd give up happily:

    1. A very very large chunk of the U.S. military budget.
    2. Tax concessions to the wealthy--how aboutreturning to a 75% top marginal tax rate, or higher?
    3. Investment income being taxed at lower rates than wages.
    4. Estate tax laws that let the wealthy inherit more than, say, $1 million without being taxed.

    And:

    5. I'd happily give up EVERY SINGLE PENNY of my net worth over the first $5 million dollars in a nationwide effort to handle our crisis and pay down the debt--surely the vast majority of everyone else will agree to that as well, yes?

    Tom
    No.
    Ask not what your country can do for you; ask what you can do for your country. John Fn Kennedy. (D)

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    downward bound
    Posts
    5,004

    Default Re: Mister Kroogm'n tells it striaght

    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Hoppe View Post
    You obviously did not read American history regarding the Spanish flu.
    That would be the history where the twins/citys that shutdown sooner came back stronger? The mask ordinances? The travel bans? The business closures? The business reforms? What history lessons are you going to tell me in cliche Ted the great?

    Yeah the business is business. Five months in and people like you don’t get business isn’t coming back without solutions of more depth than an a handwave and a tantrum. Your choice you are screaming about is a lie. You are arguing for failure. You are arguing for misery. And that’s what you will reap.

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Location
    Modesto, CA
    Posts
    2,635

    Default Re: Mister Kroogm'n tells it striaght

    The normal we were used to last year is now what we call the past. Once we finally put the rising death rates behind us (they're not going away) then we can expect to see what the "new" normal will look like. It won't be the same. I believe it is possible for this country to pull together and eliminate covid-19 just as we did polio. I also believe that the good citizens of the USA will not be willing to do what is necessary to achieve this.
    "The future is already here — it's just not very evenly distributed." William Gibson

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    victoria, australia. (1 address now)
    Posts
    61,328

    Default Re: Mister Kroogm'n tells it striaght

    Quote Originally Posted by CWSmith View Post
    The American people remind me increasingly of spoiled children who stomp their feet and want the world to be the way they want it to be. They want to party. They don't want to wear masks. They want to go to restaurants and bars. They don't want to pay taxes. This is where they stop their feet...
    That applies here for a significant enough group for the virus to have gotten away. Cultural and religious practices, bad training, commercial greed, failure to believe the science etc have all played their part. In the long run though I think it will just become another endemic disease risk for humans to live, and die with.
    Evidently the suicide rate amongst the young denied that 'growing up stuff' is up.

  26. #26
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    northwestern Wisconsin
    Posts
    6,662

    Default Re: Mister Kroogm'n tells it striaght

    Quote Originally Posted by mdh View Post
    No.
    You DO realize what a fringe outlier you are in your political views, right? You are certainly NOT one of the "vast majority" I was referring to.

    Tom
    You don't have to be prepared as long as you're willing to suffer the consequences.

    www.tompamperin.com

  27. #27
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    2 states: NJ and confusion
    Posts
    34,926

    Default Re: Mister Kroogm'n tells it striaght

    It will all get better very soon. I heard today that Trump's going to prevent states, cities, et al from providing data to the CDC, but some new agency he's created, and that agency will provide information.

    Things, I'm sure, will look quite rosy in a couple of weeks.
    How do we form a mutiny? Our new captain is navigating poorly.

  28. #28
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    North Shore, Auckland, NZ
    Posts
    2,997

    Default Re: Mister Kroogm'n tells it striaght

    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Hoppe View Post
    They shut down during winter - we did not. We let out young folks out before containment was secured. States like Florida and Arizona were wide open. The president lied about containment. Our leaders failed us. Clearly - The cat is out of the bag here George. New Zealand is a small population with folks spread pretty far apart. Once the Covid hit them they shut down. We on the other hand were allowing 5 to 10 direct flights from Wuhan every day and allowing the passengers to go thier US homes and communities.

    Seriously - do you think this country can afford another 3 month shut down? I do not. I think our young people will not stand for it. Colleges and universities are demanding via the courts to allow students to gather back on campus. I think business leaders do not. I do not think banks and debt holders give a damn about the health and safety of 2 percent of the population. Our whole system is based on spending, using and connection. I have a 20 year old son who tries to stay home but a possible booty call from a cute willing girlfriend, hanging with the fellas or need to play basketball far exceeds our prime directive to stay home and no contact. As humans we do not do that well. Heck even the old folks who receive daily delivered meals delivered by my son are desperate for connection - they take off their mask and just want to have human contact. We are not turning back to the way it was but it will be an evolution to where we will be in the fall.
    Wrong. Here in NZ we shut down in one of the warmest, driest late-summers I can remember. Basically the weather broke only when we were allowed back out. As for population density, Auckland is a city, one with a container and cruise-ship port and an airport that handles most of the country's international flights. What wee did was shut down properly, not say we had shut down and then carry on almost as normal, and then drop even that pretense after a few weeks. When we gradually eased the lockdown rules, it was based on very cautious interpretations of test results.

    Your country probably can't afford another lockdown, but the fact you need one is because the first wasn't really a lockdown. More of a concern is if you can afford not to get this thinking under control, somehow. See how your economic recovery goes when enough of the population get it into their heads that this thing is for real and underestimating it could land you dead, or perhaps worse, seriously debilitated but aware that your actions have spread the disease to loved ones, family and friends too.
    'When I leave I don't know what I'm hoping to find. When I leave I don't know what I'm leaving behind...'

  29. #29
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Alameda, CA
    Posts
    16,215

    Default Re: Mister Kroogm'n tells it striaght

    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh Conway View Post
    That would be the history where the twins/citys that shutdown sooner came back stronger? The mask ordinances? The travel bans? The business closures? The business reforms? What history lessons are you going to tell me in cliche Ted the great?

    Yeah the business is business. Five months in and people like you don’t get business isn’t coming back without solutions of more depth than an a handwave and a tantrum. Your choice you are screaming about is a lie. You are arguing for failure. You are arguing for misery. And that’s what you will reap.
    Quite dismissive given you don't know the future. I did point out the false narrative marketing companies want you to buy into; that you are saying isn't going to happen. I am cautioning failure of the system and the burden that we are going to address in the months to come. Sorry it makes you scared. You are right in suggesting that most will wait this out as they lose so much. 10s of Millions have not paid rent for several months, more and more car loans for now 1/2 year delinquent and general consumer debts piling up. Before we got into full virus pandemic, most Americans had less than 400 dollars in cash. That is all gone. We all have witnessed the only real aid that does come is nearly political patronage for the well connected. The user fees for transportation and health services are becoming very burdensome and we can expect huge service cuts next year. Housing prices and mass population relocations are going to change the way the communities ran before. Schools are going to suffer as teachers should be concerned, our youth needing to get educated and families back to work all the while budget cuts are coming as lower taxes mean less money.

    I brought up the past on how after the first wave of the Spanish flu, the second wave was horrific, deadlier. The Twin Cities waited for the first wave to pass and stopped reporting numbers. The numbers are still secret due to war censorship of media and states intentionally reporting low or not at all numbers. Kids went back to school, bars, restaurants and whore houses were opened up just like they were New York, Chicago, Saint Louis, New Orleans, San Francisco and Seattle. Once the number 10,000 in the state was reached, Minnesota stopped counting the dead. It was a different time with an economy based on factories, expansion and population growth. We do not have that flip the switch economy anymore there is little to buy but services. Without free flowing cash and an underground economy diminsished, we can expect slow growth forward.

    Of course I hope you are right if we are going to manage this with hope and prayer. So you think that 5 months national economic icing is negligible with at least another 3 more is just a drop in the over all bucket. I can respect your belief system. My reality may not be yours but they do intersect in the real world. I do know the selfishness of people and how they repeat historical patterns. I know many business across the nation are failing. 85 percent of all New York eating and drinking establishments will be closed predominately by the end of August. My wife in the other room is laying off 100 people today and they are not being rehired. I am lucky enough to be working part time in my business. I am going tomorrow to a large office space, work in a conference room 8 to 10 hours with 6 to 8 strangers I do not know. If i do not go I will lose not only the day of may but the person who booked me. I ws told I get no government help by the unemployment office. If I do not pay my mortgage or my car loan, who will. I know every time I go out and work, I have a higher chance to getting sick. I know every time my son goes out and comes home can get us sick. Getting sick is different than losing the economy, retraction of retirement and even more loss than we can imagine. Like i said - Americans do not have a economic safety net. We can try to save 1 percent of the population but at the cost of losing the economy of last fall, a way of life which most found nice and the fragile retirement that few Americans have.
    Last edited by Ted Hoppe; 07-14-2020 at 06:34 PM.
    Play the opening like a book, the middle game like a magician, and the endgame like a machine. – Rudolph Spielmann

  30. #30
    Join Date
    Sep 2019
    Location
    Broken Arrow, OK USA
    Posts
    165

    Default Re: Mister Kroogm'n tells it striaght

    Quote Originally Posted by elf View Post
    $17/mth to subscribe with real offers to start. You might find it useful to do so.

    or just c&p the link into an incognito window

  31. #31
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    oklahoma
    Posts
    6,308

    Default Re: Mister Kroogm'n tells it striaght

    Quote Originally Posted by WI-Tom View Post
    You DO realize what a fringe outlier you are in your political views, right? You are certainly NOT one of the "vast majority" I was referring to.

    Tom
    No.
    Ask not what your country can do for you; ask what you can do for your country. John Fn Kennedy. (D)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •