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Thread: Hey Brits: I need some police help.

  1. #1
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    Default Hey Brits: I need some police help.

    In this quarantine, we're watching a lot of British television. Detective shows.

    I need some jurisdictional info.

    What are the differences between Scotland Yard, The Met, and City of London Police?
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    Default Re: Hey Brits: I need some police help.

    Scotland Yard - these days, New Scotland Yard - is the headquarters of the Metropolitan Police - “the Met.”. They can be and often are invited to assist other police forces in investigation of serious crimes but only ever if they are invited. The Met have specialist units - the Flying Squad (gangsters,etc) the Special Branch (spies. terrorists, etc.) the Fraud Squad and others.

    Jurisdictionally the City of London is separate from the rest of London and it has its own police force. As you might expect, the City of London Police are known for their abilities in dealing with complex financial crimes.
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    Default Re: Hey Brits: I need some police help.

    Hope that helps.
    IMAGINES VEL NON FUERINT

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    Default Re: Hey Brits: I need some police help.

    While we're at it, I've been wondering about the caution - (your version of the U.S. Miranda), which goes:

    "You do not have to say anything, but it may harm your defence if you do not mention, when questioned something which you later rely on in court. Anything you do say may be given in evidence."


    The bold section is what I find interesting. That sounds like a penalty for not volunteering possibly incriminating information. Does a defendant lose his/her right to bring forth information which might actually help his/her case just because it wasn't declared at the time of arrest?
    Last edited by Fred Z; 08-03-2020 at 09:08 PM. Reason: made clearer?

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    Default Re: Hey Brits: I need some police help.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Bow View Post
    In this quarantine, we're watching a lot of British television. Detective shows.

    I need some jurisdictional info.

    What are the differences between Scotland Yard, The Met, and City of London Police?
    And then there's The Sweeney. (Sweeney Todd = Flying Squad, in rhyming slang)
    When you can take the pebble from my hand, it will be time for you to leave.

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    Default Re: Hey Brits: I need some police help.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob (oh, THAT Bob) View Post
    And then there's The Sweeney. (Sweeney Todd = Flying Squad, in rhyming slang)
    And... "Old Bill".

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    Default Re: Hey Brits: I need some police help.

    The acorn streaming service has all that stuff. Many great shows. Midsomer Murders. Hamish Macbeth, Field of Blood, Loch Ness, and many more. Wycliffe is on Hulu. Beautifully filmed.

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    Default Re: Hey Brits: I need some police help.

    Black Widow, from Walter presents
    Masterpiece

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    Default Re: Hey Brits: I need some police help.

    'Unforgotten' is addictive. Nicola Walker was born to play Cass Stuart. I first tried to watch season 3 on PBS, but I missed episodes 3 and 4, and there was no way I'd pick up at episode 5 with what I'd missed. Then I found it on Amazon Prime, and watched all three seasons - each time telling myself I'd watch one episode per day. Every time, around 2:00AM as episode 6 was ending, I'd say, "Dang! Next time I'll only watch one episode per day!"
    I can't wait for season 4.

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    Default Re: Hey Brits: I need some police help.

    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Craig-Bennett;[URL="tel:6244684"
    6244684[/URL]]Hope that helps.
    Yes, thanks. Somehow I thought Scotland Yard was some sort of national investigative , like our FBI. They are, but only if invited.
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    Default Re: Hey Brits: I need some police help.

    We would consider any form of national Police to be unconstitutional. Local police forces guard their prerogatives!
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    Default Re: Hey Brits: I need some police help.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fred Z View Post
    While we're at it, I've been wondering about the caution - (your version of the U.S. Miranda), which goes:

    "You do not have to say anything, but it may harm your defence if you do not mention, when questioned something which you later rely on in court. Anything you do say may be given in evidence."


    The bold section is what I find interesting. That sounds like a penalty for not volunteering possibly incriminating information. Does a defendant lose his/her right to bring forth information which might actually help his/her case just because it wasn't declared at the time of arrest?
    No, but the prosecution barrister may draw attention to the defendant’s failure to mention it.

    Incidentally, no professional prosecutors.
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    Default Re: Hey Brits: I need some police help.

    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Craig-Bennett View Post
    No, but the prosecution barrister may draw attention to the defendant’s failure to mention it.

    Incidentally, no professional prosecutors.
    Wow! That opens up a whole lot more questions. I'd best stay out of trouble if I visit. (Not planning on getting into trouble, mind you.)

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    Default Re: Hey Brits: I need some police help.

    Who prosecutes the cases?
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    Default Re: Hey Brits: I need some police help.

    A mixture of salaried and freelance lawyers.
    https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidanc...ates-selection

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    Default Re: Hey Brits: I need some police help.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fred Z View Post
    While we're at it, I've been wondering about the caution - (your version of the U.S. Miranda), which goes:

    "You do not have to say anything, but it may harm your defence if you do not mention, when questioned something which you later rely on in court. Anything you do say may be given in evidence."


    The bold section is what I find interesting. That sounds like a penalty for not volunteering possibly incriminating information. Does a defendant lose his/her right to bring forth information which might actually help his/her case just because it wasn't declared at the time of arrest?
    The police caution was changed by an act of parliament in the 1990s.
    It used to say "You do not have to say anything unless you wish to do so, but what you say may be given in evidence."

    The new wording in Fred's post points out that there are risks or consequences inherent in failing to answer a question in full, and then trying to add the information withheld when in court. It does not bar that missing information from the evidence, but the accused may have some difficult explaining to do to establish their good standing. The message is don't try to be an awkward uncooperative pillock, nobody likes a smartarse.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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    Default Re: Hey Brits: I need some police help.

    The rules concerning arrest and caution were first formally issued in 1912 by the judges of the King's Bench, to give English police forces guidance on the procedures that they should follow in detaining and questioning suspects. These were not laws but guidelines to 'best practice' as we would say today. But the 'right to silence' and the caution against incriminating oneself is much older than that.

    In the Sherlock Holmes story 'A Study in Scarlet', published in 1887, the following line appears.. "in the mean time, Mr. Jefferson Hope, have you anything that you wish to say? I must warn you that your words will be taken down, and may be used against you."
    The problem these days is that everybody knows their rights..
    Don't get me wrong, that's a good thing, but it makes our job harder.

    Police Chief Commissioner Cameron Miekelson - Scot Squad

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    Default Re: Hey Brits: I need some police help.

    How does the procurator fiscal fit into the prosecution schema?

    What are you doing about it?




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    Default Re: Hey Brits: I need some police help.

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    The police caution was changed by an act of parliament in the 1990s.
    It used to say "You do not have to say anything unless you wish to do so, but what you say may be given in evidence."

    The new wording in Fred's post points out that there are risks or consequences inherent in failing to answer a question in full, and then trying to add the information withheld when in court. It does not bar that missing information from the evidence, but the accused may have some difficult explaining to do to establish their good standing. The message is don't try to be an awkward uncooperative pillock, nobody likes a smartarse.
    Thank you, Nick. A very clear explanation.

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    Default Re: Hey Brits: I need some police help.

    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Orca View Post
    How does the procurator fiscal fit into the prosecution schema?
    Fiscals are a Scottish thing..

    The Crown Office and Procurator Fiscal Service is Scotland's only prosecuting service. Fiscals are based throughout Scotland. They are legally qualified civil servants who receive reports about crimes from the police and others and then decide what action to take in the public interest, including whether to prosecute someone.

    Essentially, if a crime is committed in Scotland, the police send a report to the local Fiscal who decides what action to take, and will undertake the prosecution role in court to a certain level. But for very serious crimes, such as murder, the case will not be directly prosecuted by the procurator fiscal. Instead, the case will be heard at the High Court of Justiciary and the prosecution will be made in the name of the Lord Advocate by an Advocate Depute.

    This is completely independent from the Crown Prosecution Service, which has a similar role in England and Wales.

    Northern Ireland also has its own Public Prosecution Service.
    The problem these days is that everybody knows their rights..
    Don't get me wrong, that's a good thing, but it makes our job harder.

    Police Chief Commissioner Cameron Miekelson - Scot Squad

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    Default Re: Hey Brits: I need some police help.

    Scots law has the added fun of three possible verdicts, guilty, not guilty, and.....

    Not proven,

    that is, the jury think you are guilty, but the prosecution did not provide enough evidence to prove the case and jail the suspect.
    Just an amateur bodging away..

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    Default Re: Hey Brits: I need some police help.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Q View Post
    Scots law has the added fun of three possible verdicts, guilty, not guilty, and.....

    Not proven,

    that is, the jury think you are guilty, but the prosecution did not provide enough evidence to prove the case and jail the suspect.
    Also known as "Not guilty, but don't do it again"
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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    Default Re: Hey Brits: I need some police help.

    So, if it's "not proven" does that go into the public record? So every time a cop stops you he sees that in your file?

    Also, while we're here, is "plod" an insult?
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    Default Re: Hey Brits: I need some police help.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Bow View Post
    So, if it's "not proven" does that go into the public record? So every time a cop stops you he sees that in your file?

    Also, while we're here, is "plod" an insult?
    As far as I can see it has the same effect as not guilty, so no, probably not.
    Plod is derogatory, short for plodding in gait and thought processes.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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    Default Re: Hey Brits: I need some police help.

    PC Plod first appeared in Enid Blyton's books about Noddy in Toyland https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mr._Plod


    Nick

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    Default Re: Hey Brits: I need some police help.

    Quote Originally Posted by NickW View Post
    PC Plod first appeared in Enid Blyton's books about Noddy in Toyland https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mr._Plod


    Nick
    And books riddled with more offensive prejudice would be hard to find.
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    Default Re: Hey Brits: I need some police help.

    Speaking of Brit 'cop procedural' TV shows... I've been a HUGE fan of them, and have built up a library of same. Some of the more famous ones are widely known... but there are some 'sleepers' that are also superb. Just last night, I finished re-watching the first two seasons of 'Marcella', an interesting show about a London DS (detective sergeant) who, whilst being an outstanding sleuth, also suffers from a condition where she experiences violent rages during which she is 'blacked out' and can't remember... it's an offbeat premise.

    There are so many great Brit shows like this... I can mention a bunch ('Broadchurch', ''The Tunnel', 'Prime Suspect', 'Luther', 'Line of Duty'....) and would be doing a disservice to the ones I can't remember off the top of my head. The Brits REALLY know how to do cop drama!
    "Reason and facts are sacrificed to opinion and myth. Demonstrable falsehoods are circulated and recycled as fact. Narrow minded opinion refuses to be subjected to thought and analysis. Too many now subject events to a prefabricated set of interpretations, usually provided by a biased media source. The myth is more comfortable than the often difficult search for truth."







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    Default Re: Hey Brits: I need some police help.

    ]

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    Default Re: Hey Brits: I need some police help.

    For any fans of Brit cop shows - try "Taggart" - especially the early ones with Mark McManus.

    Some of us may be able to help with translation prolems.
    I'd much rather lay in my bunk all freakin day lookin at Youtube videos .

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    Default Re: Hey Brits: I need some police help.

    ^ So many are based on excellent crime novels, John Thaw in Morse, Vera, both good.
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    Default Re: Hey Brits: I need some police help.

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    ^ So many are based on excellent crime novels, John Thaw in Morse, Vera, both good.
    Big Morse and Vera fan here. Also mentioned on this forum a few times is 'Shetland', which is based on stories by 'Vera' author Ann Cleeves. Probably my favourite.
    The problem these days is that everybody knows their rights..
    Don't get me wrong, that's a good thing, but it makes our job harder.

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    Default Re: Hey Brits: I need some police help.

    Warning to us Yankees, theres soon to be bidding wars between Acorn, Britbox, and PBS for future BritTV.
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    Default Re: Hey Brits: I need some police help.

    I've enjoyed some of the female led shows, like 'Scott & Bailey'. 'No Offence' was interesting, but I needed the subtitles. What language do they speak in Manchester?
    I've tried oh so hard to like 'Murder in Suburbia', because who doesn't like Caroline Catz? But, she just doesn't fit the role of a tough DI. Likewise, I tuned out 'DCI Banks' once she joined the cast.
    In the upcoming bidding war, I'm sure Acorn will lose, because I can watch Acorn free through my public library, and life's not fair.

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    Default Re: Hey Brits: I need some police help.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fred Z View Post
    What language do they speak in Manchester?
    Odd fact: while I now live in Scotland, and was born in Cumbria, I speak Mancunian.

    I had to cadge it to avoid a mither, in ma twenties.

    Andy
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    Default Re: Hey Brits: I need some police help.

    ^ Brenda Blethyn said she had a dialog coach to teach her Geordie, but she was so good the producers hired a different coach to tone it down for American and Canadian ears. She says Vera speaks international Geordie.
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