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Thread: Ponder; it's illegal to shoot people, but

  1. #1
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    Default Ponder; it's illegal to shoot people, but

    It's perfectly legal to own tools designed for the purpose of shooting people.

    Seems some sort of contradiction.
    Now he's gone. If only he'd be forgotten.

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    Default Re: Ponder; it's illegal to shoot people, but

    It’s not always illegal to shoot someone. Depends on the circumstances.
    Fight Entropy, build a wooden boat!

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    Default Re: Ponder; it's illegal to shoot people, but

    Quote Originally Posted by Reynard38 View Post
    It’s not always illegal to shoot someone. Depends on the circumstances.
    What circumstances?
    ​In a world full of wonders, man invented boredom.

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    Default Re: Ponder; it's illegal to shoot people, but

    Quote Originally Posted by WX View Post
    What circumstances?
    Typically any time Black Lives Don't Matter - See "traffic violation" for examples.
    I'd much rather lay in my bunk all freakin day lookin at Youtube videos .

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    Default Re: Ponder; it's illegal to shoot people, but

    It is perfectly legal to own lots of things that can be misused, intentionally, or negligently, and cause harm.

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    Default Re: Ponder; it's illegal to shoot people, but

    Bong pipes for instance……… on open sale………..

    (NO No No….Bong pipes, not Bag Pipes………)

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    Default Re: Ponder; it's illegal to shoot people, but

    Quote Originally Posted by John Smith View Post
    It's perfectly legal to own tools designed for the purpose of shooting people.

    Seems some sort of contradiction.

    I just wish it was harder to buy and use a device designed to kill than it was to buy and use a car.
    "If you think you are too small to make a difference, try sleeping with a mosquito"

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    Default Re: Ponder; it's illegal to shoot people, but

    Quote Originally Posted by P.I. Stazzer-Newt View Post
    Typically any time Black Lives Don't Matter - See "traffic violation" for examples.
    Or eating Skittles while black

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    Default Re: Ponder; it's illegal to shoot people, but

    Quote Originally Posted by skuthorp View Post
    Bong pipes for instance……… on open sale………..

    (NO No No….Bong pipes, not Bag Pipes………)
    True. Bagpipes, while delightful, should only be used privately, with consenting adults.

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    Default Re: Ponder; it's illegal to shoot people, but

    Quote Originally Posted by David W Pratt View Post
    It is perfectly legal to own lots of things that can be misused, intentionally, or negligently, and cause harm.
    But only hand guns and swords are specifically designed to Terminally infringe a citizens Freedom.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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    Default Re: Ponder; it's illegal to shoot people, but

    Quote Originally Posted by Canoeyawl View Post
    Or eating Skittles while black
    The "Skittle eater" was tried in absentia and found wanting.

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    Default Re: Ponder; it's illegal to shoot people, but

    Quote Originally Posted by WX View Post
    What circumstances?
    Self-defense is the oldest of all human rights.

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    Default Re: Ponder; it's illegal to shoot people, but

    Quote Originally Posted by Seabeau View Post
    Self-defense is the oldest of all human rights.
    Strange how civilised countries manage without arming most of the population....

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    Default Re: Ponder; it's illegal to shoot people, but

    Quote Originally Posted by Seabeau View Post
    Self-defense is the oldest of all human rights.
    Quote Originally Posted by birlinn View Post
    Strange how civilised countries manage without arming most of the population....
    Civilised countries also have a principle of "Reasonable Force". You do not use a weapon against an unarmed man. You do not use a weapon against someone running away, nor do you use a knife against someone armed with a hammer, or a shotgun against someone armed with a screwdriver.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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    Default Re: Ponder; it's illegal to shoot people, but

    Quote Originally Posted by WX View Post
    What circumstances?
    Home invasion would be one.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castle_doctrine
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    Default Re: Ponder; it's illegal to shoot people, but

    i dunno, knife vs hammer sounds fair.

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    Default Re: Ponder; it's illegal to shoot people, but

    Think of it like a building code restriction, I guess. Lefal to own a framing hammer, but not legal to build just anywhere.
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    Default Re: Ponder; it's illegal to shoot people, but

    Quote Originally Posted by Seabeau View Post
    Self-defense is the oldest of all human rights.
    How many shootings last year were self defense?
    Now he's gone. If only he'd be forgotten.

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Ponder; it's illegal to shoot people, but

    Quote Originally Posted by Seabeau View Post
    Self-defense is the oldest of all human rights.
    And the key one which was carefully and closely defined in the "social contract" forming sovereign states too. Read some Hobbes or Rousseau, for a rather lengthy exploration of that.
    If I use the word "God," I sure don't mean an old man in the sky who just loves the occasional goat sacrifice. - Anne Lamott

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    Default Re: Ponder; it's illegal to shoot people, but

    I just wish it was harder to buy and use a device designed to kill than it was to buy and use a car.
    Yet, cars kill as many people as guns. Actually, cars are a little bit more deadly than guns.

    Screen Shot 2021-04-19 at 9.46.27 AM.jpg

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    Default Re: Ponder; it's illegal to shoot people, but

    It's a small subset of motor vehicle deaths which are intentional, of course. Vehicular suicide and homicide are things, of course, but most motor vehicle deaths are genuine accidents.

    The proportions of those things for firearms deaths look somewhat different.

    And the proportion of deaths in comparison with the # of uses ...
    If I use the word "God," I sure don't mean an old man in the sky who just loves the occasional goat sacrifice. - Anne Lamott

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    Default Re: Ponder; it's illegal to shoot people, but

    To stretch the analogy, if one has no license, one cannot buy a car.

    Can you imagine not being legally able to drive, but being able to buy cars?
    Now he's gone. If only he'd be forgotten.

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    Default Re: Ponder; it's illegal to shoot people, but

    Quote Originally Posted by TomF View Post
    It's a small subset of motor vehicle deaths which are intentional, of course. Vehicular suicide and homicide are things, of course, but most motor vehicle deaths are genuine accidents.

    The proportions of those things for firearms deaths look somewhat different.

    And the proportion of deaths in comparison with the # of uses ...
    28% of motor vehicle deaths are due to alcohol. I’d say those are intentional.
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    Default Re: Ponder; it's illegal to shoot people, but

    Quote Originally Posted by Reynard38 View Post
    28% of motor vehicle deaths are due to alcohol. I’d say those are intentional.
    What a perverse statement. Perhaps you should think that through again.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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    Default Re: Ponder; it's illegal to shoot people, but

    Quote Originally Posted by Breakaway View Post
    Yet, cars kill as many people as guns. Actually, cars are a little bit more deadly than guns.

    Screen Shot 2021-04-19 at 9.46.27 AM.jpg

    Kevin
    However, guns are designed, manufactured and sold for killing people. cars are designed and built to minimise RTA deaths. Can you see a difference there?
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    Default Re: Ponder; it's illegal to shoot people, but

    Quote Originally Posted by Breakaway View Post
    Yet, cars kill as many people as guns. Actually, cars are a little bit more deadly than guns.

    Screen Shot 2021-04-19 at 9.46.27 AM.jpg

    Kevin
    But the gun is DESIGNED TO KILL. The car is designed to transport.
    Now he's gone. If only he'd be forgotten.

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    Default Re: Ponder; it's illegal to shoot people, but

    Quote Originally Posted by Reynard38 View Post
    28% of motor vehicle deaths are due to alcohol. I’d say those are intentional.
    I was in high school when I suggested they design cars so if the driver has no license the car will not start. It's insanity, IMO, that with all the technology we've been able to put into cars, this seems like it would have been simple. Insert a valid license into a slot, or car won't start.
    Now he's gone. If only he'd be forgotten.

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    Default Re: Ponder; it's illegal to shoot people, but

    Quote Originally Posted by Reynard38 View Post
    28% of motor vehicle deaths are due to alcohol. I’d say those are intentional.
    I'm sure that some folks take a few (or more) drinks to steel themselves to use a car to commit suicide or homicide.

    But most alcohol involved vehicle deaths have alcohol as a contributing factor in the accident - like criminal negligence, IMO. I wouldn't think of deaths in such cases as "intentional' any more than leaving a loaded handgun where a toddler can get it and shoot is "intended." Criminal negligence.
    If I use the word "God," I sure don't mean an old man in the sky who just loves the occasional goat sacrifice. - Anne Lamott

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    Default Re: Ponder; it's illegal to shoot people, but

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    What a perverse statement. Perhaps you should think that through again.
    No, I will not. Getting behind the wheel while intoxicated is an intentional act.
    I’ve been the victim of a drunk driver. The other driver DECIDED to drive drunk. Nobody forced him to do so. His choice.
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  30. #30
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    Default Re: Ponder; it's illegal to shoot people, but

    To stretch the analogy, if one has no license, one cannot buy a car.

    Can you imagine not being legally able to drive, but being able to buy cars?
    Here in Washington you do not have to be able to drive to own a car, why should you? Two different things.
    Its just has to be insured and licensed if its used on public roads.

  31. #31
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    Default Re: Ponder; it's illegal to shoot people, but

    But the gun is DESIGNED TO KILL. The car is designed to transport.
    And it's apparently ( barely) less lethal despite that design parameter.

    The people are just as dead. Whether killed by car or gun, tens of thousands left home in the morning and did not expect to die. The parents, children and spouses who loved them are now without those dead people.

    My point is not to diminish the problem of gun violence. It is a problem. But I like to keep it in perspective- cars and drugs kill a least as many. And deaths/ injuries are the reason guns are a problem,yes?

    That being stated, here in The Bilge, we rarely have a thread about the deaths caused by illicit drugs, and none that I recall about deaths caused by automobiles. Yet, almost daily, a "gun" thread pops up. Since guns and cars kill as many, but only guns get attention here, I can only surmise that most participants in these threads are politically-motivated, not motivated by a desire to reduce human death and suffering.

    Kevin
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  32. #32
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    Default Re: Ponder; it's illegal to shoot people, but

    i would posit in today's society, cars have a significantly higher utility than do guns
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

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    Default Re: Ponder; it's illegal to shoot people, but

    Quote Originally Posted by Reynard38 View Post
    No, I will not. Getting behind the wheel while intoxicated is an intentional act.
    I’ve been the victim of a drunk driver. The other driver DECIDED to drive drunk. Nobody forced him to do so. His choice.
    But, he did not deliberately aim his car at you knowing that he risked his own life, now, did he?
    He got into his car feeling that he could do no wrong, that he had a charmed life.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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    Default Re: Ponder; it's illegal to shoot people, but

    Quote Originally Posted by Breakaway View Post
    Yet, cars kill as many people as guns. Actually, cars are a little bit more deadly than guns.

    Screen Shot 2021-04-19 at 9.46.27 AM.jpg

    Kevin
    If you look at the number of uses of a car per year versus the number of uses of a gun per year, I think you'd see just how safe cars truly are.
    "The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails."
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  35. #35
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    Default Re: Ponder; it's illegal to shoot people, but

    Quote Originally Posted by Breakaway View Post
    I can only surmise that most participants in these threads are politically-motivated, not motivated by a desire to reduce human death and suffering.

    Kevin
    Think again.
    Lots/most of us know that without cars the US would grind to a halt, but that handguns are totally unnecessary.
    Your graph indicates that if you do away with guns, you half US deaths at a stroke. Worth doing, yes?
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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