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Thread: What, exactly, is the socialism the folks on the right are afraid of?

  1. #1
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    Default What, exactly, is the socialism the folks on the right are afraid of?

    I don't see any of them boycotting roads or airports.

    The claim to support the police.

    Do those over 65 decline Medicare? It's not mandatory.

    Their fearless leader is no stranger to courts; provided by our government.

    Do they believe they can ignore stop signs or lights because the government installed them?

    I must be missing something.
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    Default Re: What, exactly, is the socialism the folks on the right are afraid of?

    Considering that 76% of voters back the $1.9T Covid Stimulus bill, I think you'll need to help "conservatives" find the "socialism" that they're offended by.
    "The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails."
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    Default Re: What, exactly, is the socialism the folks on the right are afraid of?

    You have the wrong end of the stick. Do not apply logic and reason where it does not apply.

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    Default Re: What, exactly, is the socialism the folks on the right are afraid of?

    They fear Eisenhower socialism.

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    Default Re: What, exactly, is the socialism the folks on the right are afraid of?

    Socialists don’t like no guns.
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    Default Re: What, exactly, is the socialism the folks on the right are afraid of?

    They fear the same "socialism" that many Democrats fear. Anything that might move others up in the economy relative to them.

    A common definition
    a political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.
    Life is complex.

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    Default Re: What, exactly, is the socialism the folks on the right are afraid of?

    taxes
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

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    Default Re: What, exactly, is the socialism the folks on the right are afraid of?

    Quote Originally Posted by skuthorp View Post
    You have the wrong end of the stick. Do not apply logic and reason where it does not apply.
    Very much this. And even though it sounds somewhat flippant, it has a basis in reality. It is very exasperating to try to point out logical reasons when most of these people just want to cling to their simplistic talking points.

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    Default Re: What, exactly, is the socialism the folks on the right are afraid of?

    They have no freaking idea.

    An example is that whack-a-doodle Judge Jeanne on Fox, who yesterday was bleating about " left-wing fascists ". As they would say dismissively down South, 'bless her heart'.
    Gerard>
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    Default Re: What, exactly, is the socialism the folks on the right are afraid of?

    Just the usual, Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, food stamps, TANF, SNAP, etc, etc, etc.

    They are popular so the Republicans cannot attack them directly, so they target socialism in general. Make no mistake, given the opportunity, they will try to eliminate/privatize these popular, and by and large sucessful, well run programs.
    Steve Martinsen

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    Default Re: What, exactly, is the socialism the folks on the right are afraid of?

    Socialism is and always has been a catch all phrase in the US for “something that I don’t like”. Miscegenation? Socialism. Abortion? Socialism. Jazz Music? Socialism.

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    Default Re: What, exactly, is the socialism the folks on the right are afraid of?

    Fear of the Dark

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    Default Re: What, exactly, is the socialism the folks on the right are afraid of?

    Quote Originally Posted by Too Little Time View Post
    They fear the same "socialism" that many Democrats fear. Anything that might move others up in the economy relative to them.

    A common definition
    a political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.
    "...or regulated by the community as a whole..."

    Boy howdy! Everyone knows government (we the people) regulation of bidness is evil.
    .
    Last edited by Tom Montgomery; 03-01-2021 at 01:18 PM.
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    Default Re: What, exactly, is the socialism the folks on the right are afraid of?

    My sister-in-law and her husband are adamant in their opposition to Obama Care while they have the most minimal, useless health insurance imaginable. They can't afford the treatment they need, but they are convinced that Obama Care would be worse.

    They are afraid because they have been told to be afraid. Don't ask for a rational explanation. They cannot give it.
    "There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves." - Will Rogers

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    Default Re: What, exactly, is the socialism the folks on the right are afraid of?

    Republicans weaponize words like socialism because they can count on the majority of the current GOP electorate to be too stupid and much too brainwashed to give any issue or concept any degree of serious thought.

    Today’s GOP is a cult, not a political party, and there will much more needless suffering in the US over the next several years because of it.

    Jeff C

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    Default Re: What, exactly, is the socialism the folks on the right are afraid of?

    Abortion
    A society predicated on the assumption that everyone in it should want to get rich is not well situated to become either ethical or imaginative.

    Photographer of sailing and sailboats
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    Default Re: What, exactly, is the socialism the folks on the right are afraid of?

    Quote Originally Posted by SMARTINSEN View Post
    Just the usual, Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, food stamps, TANF, SNAP, etc, etc, etc.

    They are popular so the Republicans cannot attack them directly, so they target socialism in general. Make no mistake, given the opportunity, they will try to eliminate/privatize these popular, and by and large sucessful, well run programs.
    Do they boycott any of these? When a Republican turns 65, does he decline Medicare? They claim to support police, which are government provided. Trump, as I said, has sued many in the courts provided by government.

    I know of no one who boycotts roads or airports.
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    Default Re: What, exactly, is the socialism the folks on the right are afraid of?

    Quote Originally Posted by CWSmith View Post
    My sister-in-law and her husband are adamant in their opposition to Obama Care while they have the most minimal, useless health insurance imaginable. They can't afford the treatment they need, but they are convinced that Obama Care would be worse.

    They are afraid because they have been told to be afraid. Don't ask for a rational explanation. They cannot give it.
    One lesson we need to remember with Obamacare: A lot of negotiation took place with Republicans. A number of compromises were reached. Then no Republicans voted for it.
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    Default Re: What, exactly, is the socialism the folks on the right are afraid of?

    Quote Originally Posted by leikec View Post
    Republicans weaponize words like socialism because they can count on the majority of the current GOP electorate to be too stupid and much too brainwashed to give any issue or concept any degree of serious thought.

    Today’s GOP is a cult, not a political party, and there will much more needless suffering in the US over the next several years because of it.

    Jeff C
    As much as we are divided by race, we are more divided by facts. Newsmax, Sinclair, FOX, etc. LIE to their rather large audience, and we see it as free speech.

    This explains how the voters are misinformed. It does not explain why they don't oppose so many things the government provides.
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    Default Re: What, exactly, is the socialism the folks on the right are afraid of?

    Quote Originally Posted by elf View Post
    Abortion
    That's a driving issue for many, but I knew two women who were adamantly opposed to abortion, but got abortions when they found themselves pregnant.

    They just don't want others to have abortions. Given that these same people don't wish to pay to help raise/educate the children, or oppose the death penalty, their "pro-life' positions are lacking.
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    Default Re: What, exactly, is the socialism the folks on the right are afraid of?

    C'mon...the US has over 65 years of demonising 'Reds', Soviets, Commies, etc. You've three generations brewed up to think 'socialism' is a nasty word, to be used on nasty people, who live in nasty places.

    My take? Try socialism! It's fun! You can, for example, get medical attention without worrying about your bank account. How nasty is that?

    Andy
    "In case of fire ring Fellside 75..."

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    Default Re: What, exactly, is the socialism the folks on the right are afraid of?

    I live in a country that by the standards of Conservative America is highly socialistic, but when I talk to conservative Americans one on one, and mention our health system, our no fault accident compensation system, universal retirement income and on and on, just one of those at a time, I get "gosh, thats good, why cant we have that here".

    I think that the word "socialism" has been used as the boogyman under the bed for so long it has actually lost its connection with reality.

    John Welsford
    An expert is but a beginner with experience.

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    Default Re: What, exactly, is the socialism the folks on the right are afraid of?

    ^ That.
    "In case of fire ring Fellside 75..."

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    Default Re: What, exactly, is the socialism the folks on the right are afraid of?

    When I think of 'socialism', I think of things where the government takes or taxes and provides things that help all of us: roads, dredged harbors, police, courts, traffic signs, education, etc......

    All of these things help private companies.

    All these things help everyone. Where would one drive that private industry made car if there were no roads?
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    Default Re: What, exactly, is the socialism the folks on the right are afraid of?

    It appears that what it boils down to is that it's legal to lie to the public, and the more conservative minds are more inclined to "err on the safe side" and believe the lies.

    Misleading the public is so much like false advertising and that's illegal, so why is telling lies OK?

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    Default Re: What, exactly, is the socialism the folks on the right are afraid of?

    Capitalism consists of a pattern of regulation of economic activity. You can't have it without rule of law and secure property rights, contract law, etc.

    Socialism is the social ownership of the means of production.

    Pretty much all societies have entities that are public an entities that are private, which means the distinction between the systems is largely artificial. We know a great deal about which entities function best under public ownership and which function best under private ownership. The typical example of a public good is a lighthouse. If it functions, you cannot exclude free riders from using it, so it can't function as a market good. It's also true that if you cannot, in good conscience, exclude people from use of a good, it can't function as a private, marketplace good. That's why healthcare is such a problem, and why Medicare is so popular.

    More here: https://booksellersvsbestsellers.blo...ghthouses.html

    and here: https://booksellersvsbestsellers.blo...socialism.html

    As to why Republicans fear socialism, consider that Americans pay about twice as much as some other advanced countries for their healthcare, and somebody is getting that money. Socialism is a threat to the profits of their political donors (and the donors of some Democrats, of whom Joe Lieberman was a prime example.) They should relax, most of society is not public goods, and should not be socialized.

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    Default Re: What, exactly, is the socialism the folks on the right are afraid of?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian McColgin View Post
    They fear Eisenhower socialism.
    Yep! Freeways, public roads, interstate highways, dammed socialists.
    We need more toll roads

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    Default Re: What, exactly, is the socialism the folks on the right are afraid of?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian McColgin View Post
    They fear Eisenhower socialism.
    Eisenhower's nomination was engineered in smoke-filled rooms, while the base favored someone much more conservative.

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    Default Re: What, exactly, is the socialism the folks on the right are afraid of?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gerarddm View Post
    They have no freaking idea.

    An example is that whack-a-doodle Judge Jeanne on Fox, who yesterday was bleating about " left-wing fascists ". As they would say dismissively down South, 'bless her heart'.

    well, when you get that far right, fascism begins to look leftist.
    "If you think you are too small to make a difference, try sleeping with a mosquito"

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    Default Re: What, exactly, is the socialism the folks on the right are afraid of?

    It's a circle, the extreme right and the extreme left are virtually indistinguishable. Often the adherents of one morph into an adherent of the other without even noticing. The rhetoric is the same, only the word is different.

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    Default Re: What, exactly, is the socialism the folks on the right are afraid of?

    Quote Originally Posted by john welsford View Post
    I live in a country that by the standards of Conservative America is highly socialistic, but when I talk to conservative Americans one on one, and mention our health system, our no fault accident compensation system, universal retirement income and on and on, just one of those at a time, I get "gosh, thats good, why cant we have that here".

    I think that the word "socialism" has been used as the boogyman under the bed for so long it has actually lost its connection with reality.

    John Welsford
    You can think that, John, but it's actually a fact these days. For that matter, how many Republicans are "well founded" in reality?
    "...moved as he was solely by the desire for truth, and by the suspicion...that the truth was not what was appearing to him at that moment."

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    Default Re: What, exactly, is the socialism the folks on the right are afraid of?

    The inimitable Jim Wright.

    "Consider the flea! Incomparably the bravest of all the creatures of God, if ignorance of fear were courage."
    -- Mark Twain
    Wear a mask. Keep your distance. Wash your hands. Get the vaccine when it's your turn.
    Whenever I say that, THIS guy shows up. Every time.
    If you're afraid, stay home!
    I'm not going to change MY life because YOU'RE scared!
    I'm not scared! I'm not scared! I'm not scared! YOU'RE the coward!
    Everytime, this worthy shows up. Everytime, full of bluster and internet courage and patriotic braggadocio .
    This little Southern town where I live is full of such swaggering courage.
    I'm not changing MY life! I'm not lettin' the gubmint control ME! I'm not gonna to wear a mask! I'm not getting the vaccine! Stay home if you're afraid of everything!
    But me, I'm not scared!
    I'm not scared.
    Heh.
    But, that's the thing, isn't it?
    That, right there. You ARE scared. Yes, you are. You're TERRIFIED every damn day.
    Oh yes, you are.
    Fear is what defines you. It's your religion -- literally. It's baked right in: fear your god. Right? FEAR him.
    You're afraid of everything.
    You're afraid of the government. And you should be. Here in Florida you keep electing bad people. So, you got bad government. You should be afraid of it. It's trying to kill you.
    But that's the ironic part, isn't it?
    You elected that bad government BECAUSE you were afraid.
    You were afraid black lives might matter, right? I mean, you were, weren't you? That's what the Confederate flag on your truck means, right?
    So you elected racists just like you.
    You were afraid people might get enough to eat, a place to sleep, healthcare. Remember? You were terrified of "socialism" even though you don't know what that actually is.
    So you elected ****ty government to keep them down.
    Even though YOU'RE poor yourself.
    You were afraid rich people might lose some money.
    Oh yes, you were.
    Sure, that's why you vote against a living wage, against unions, against decent benefits, against employee ownership, against the wealthy and privileged paying their fair share.
    You were afraid if you don't, the rich might come for YOU.
    You were afraid someone was going to come take your guns.
    I mean, that's what the guns are FOR, aren't they? Because you're scared? Scared of the government. Scared of your neighbors. Scared of crime. Scared of ... I dunno, bears, I guess.
    You got guns to protect your guns.
    You spent tens of thousand of dollars you don't have on those guns. Your kids go without dental care, the power company shuts off your lights because you can't pay the bill, family goes hungry, but, goddamn, you gotta have that arsenal.
    Because you're scared.
    You drive that giant truck, because you're scared somebody, somewhere that you don't know might think you're a pussy.
    You gotta have the biggest truck, the biggest gun, the biggest flag, the meanest dog, because you're scared somebody won't think you're a real man.
    You're scared gay people might get married.
    You're scared you might accidentally hit on a trans person.
    You're scared of Muslims.
    You're scared of Jews.
    You're scared of Mexican caravans.
    You're scared of immigrants.
    You're scared of people who don't speak English.
    You're scared of liberals.
    You're scared of fascism.
    You're scared of communism.
    You're scared of socialism.
    You're scared of "the elites."
    You're scared of education.
    You're scared of science and technology.
    You're scared of hope.
    You're so scared things might get better for others, that you'd rather squat in misery yourself, than those people ever get any leg up.
    You're scared that freedom, liberty, and most of all, justice are zero-sums and if anyone else gets any more, you'll get less.
    You're that lowest of the white men, but so long as nothing changes, you can tell yourself you're better than everyone else.
    THAT's what terrifies you the most: that THAT might finally change.
    THAT's what you mean when you shout "Make America Great Again!"
    Your fear blinds you to the staggering incongruity of your own actions.
    Irony like voting to give rich people a massive tax break, while at the very same time screaming about how you're not going to get the evil vaccine because a rich guy used his money to help create it.
    You tell me that you're not going to live your life in fear and yet that's exactly what you do. You live in fear every damn day.
    You're scared of everything.
    Well, maybe not quite everything...
    Maybe not everything.
    You don't seem to be afraid that you're going to infect others. That you might kill the woman you coughed on in the donut shop, or the grandfather you brushed up against into in the grocery store, or you kids, or their teacher, or ... anyone actually
    What about those pregnant women you're so concerned about? You scared for THEIR health? Are you?
    No, you're not scared your boneheaded irresponsibility puts others at risk.
    You're not scared that you might be a selfish bag of dicks.
    In fact, you think THAT makes you a real man.
    Which is again ironic given that you're same guy screaming about the right to life.
    Your life, I guess. No one else's.
    Even though your life isn't really all that much to brag about, is it? I mean, if we're being honest here.
    The absence of fear isn't courage.
    Lack of caution in the face of danger isn't bravery.
    Courage is how you FACE danger, how you help others face it, how you lead, the example you set every minute of every day. Others above self.
    THAT is the true measure of character.
    Any fool can be brave when they are too stupid, too ignorant, too AFRAID to BE afraid.
    And risking the lives of others for your own bravado isn't courage, it's terrorism.
    Consider the flea.
    “Courage is resistance to fear, mastery of fear-not absence of fear. Except a creature be part coward it is not a compliment to say it is brave; it is merely a loose misapplication of the word. Consider the flea!-Incomparably the bravest of all the creatures of God, if ignorance of fear were courage. Whether you are asleep or awake he will attack you, caring nothing for the fact that in bulk and strength you are to him as are the massed armies of the earth to a sucking child; he lives both day and night and all days and nights in the very lap of peril and the immediate presence of death, and yet is no more afraid than is the man who walks the streets of a city that was threatened by an earthquake ten centuries before. When we speak of Clive, Nelson, and Putnam as men who "didn't know what fear was," we ought always to add the flea-and put him at the head of the procession.”
    -- Samuel Clemens (Mark Twain)
    "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations,
    for nature cannot be fooled."

    Richard Feynman

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    Default Re: What, exactly, is the socialism the folks on the right are afraid of?

    Quote Originally Posted by johnw View Post
    Capitalism consists of a pattern of regulation of economic activity. You can't have it without rule of law and secure property rights, contract law, etc.

    Socialism is the social ownership of the means of production.
    What? Say again?

    Capitalism prefers no regulation at all. "Steal that island, enslave those people." Capitalism in the west, today, is prevented from most of that. Good thing too.

    The "social ownership of the means of production" is classic (before it all went bad) theoretical Communism.

    Socialism (and we're social animals, remember) is simply doing the best for the majority. That's roads, lighthouses, healthcare, education, etc. There's a world of difference between socialism, communism and unfettered capitalism.

    Andy
    "In case of fire ring Fellside 75..."

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    Default Re: What, exactly, is the socialism the folks on the right are afraid of?

    Quote Originally Posted by AndyG View Post
    What? Say again?

    Capitalism prefers no regulation at all. "Steal that island, enslave those people." Capitalism in the west, today, is prevented from most of that. Good thing too.

    The "social ownership of the means of production" is classic (before it all went bad) theoretical Communism.

    Socialism (and we're social animals, remember) is simply doing the best for the majority. That's roads, lighthouses, healthcare, education, etc. There's a world of difference between socialism, communism and unfettered capitalism.

    Andy
    Capitalists are terrified of the breakdown of regulation. That's why they want strong police forces, so poor people don't rise up and take their stuff. "Steal that island, enslave those people" preceded capitalisms by, well, most of recorded history. The right would like you to believe that capitalism is the natural state of man, and all the banditry and exploitation of the past was natural as well. Changing the structure of capitalism, as the New Deal did, can change the outcomes. And changing the system again, as has happened in English-speaking countries especially over the last half century, has changed the outcomes again.

    Doing the best for the majority is democracy. That's why the right keeps trying to limit the franchise.

    No regulation at all isn't capitalism, it's banditry. The bankers and the lawyers don't do well in banditry, because people keep taking their stuff.

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    Default Re: What, exactly, is the socialism the folks on the right are afraid of?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gib Etheridge View Post
    It appears that what it boils down to is that it's legal to lie to the public, and the more conservative minds are more inclined to "err on the safe side" and believe the lies.

    Misleading the public is so much like false advertising and that's illegal, so why is telling lies OK?
    I've been a very lonely voice for a very long time that accepting lying as free speech dooms our nation.

    Fraud is the misrepresentation of matters of fact for personal gain. It is a crime. Slander, Libel, and inciting violence are crimes.

    For reasons I can't fathom, and at our great peril, we don't apply these laws to political speech. It is perfectly okay, in this country, for politicians to lie, such as Trump's claim that he won the biggest electoral victory since Reagan. It's also perfectly okay for 'news' outlets to lie.

    A candidate says, "Beat the hell out of him. I'll pay your legal bills" (or close to that) and that incitement of violence is accepted as free speech.

    The way I learned it, free speech covers unpopular, or even offensive, opinions. But while we accept the lying, an offensive opinion costs you a tv series.
    Now he's gone. If only he'd be forgotten.

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