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Thread: Dark Harbour Knockabout Build

  1. #36
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    Default Re: Dark Harbour Knockabout Build







    Today's progress and a favorite trick for holding twist into a plank, a slow twist with the wrench and screw it down until the epoxy sets; also worked well when steaming planks.



    The added engine ventilation was to my 350z.
    "what could go wrong?"

  2. #37
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    Default Re: Dark Harbour Knockabout Build

    Rolling!

  3. #38
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    Default Re: Dark Harbour Knockabout Build

    Looks more like a Herreshoff Watchill 15
    Quote Originally Posted by Measures Once Cuts Twice View Post
    To set the theme of this thread I'll start out with this picture (not mine) of a boat that is not a Dark Harbour.









    That's my goal; to learn to sail in something like this.

    I figured the fastest way to get it built was to journal it here because you guys can go from lumber to very impressive boat
    in about 4-5 pages...

    so got the Dark Harbour diagrams from WB and got a pile of wood.
    [Cheap, i'm cheap and i'm aiming for cheap and i couldn't bring myself to practice boatbuilding on really nice wood]



    qty 50 2x6 16' long (30# each so 1500# of wood which i moved 5 times so far)

  4. #39
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    Default Re: Dark Harbour Knockabout Build

    Quote Originally Posted by Measures Once Cuts Twice View Post
    As long as it ends better than my last project...



    a remote turbo (450HP whee!)



    which I detonated at 140mph down the back stretch of Sebring raceway...

    "what could go wrong" [How do i add this to my signature...]
    could be be a vacuum leak
    Fight Entropy, build a wooden boat!

  5. #40
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    Default Re: Dark Harbour Knockabout Build

    Couple of more days of progress; 4 station molds removed so actually boat at the ends





    starting rough shaping / smoothing of bow and transom



    having fun!
    "what could go wrong?"

  6. #41
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    Default Re: Dark Harbour Knockabout Build



    Adventures in Extreme parking.
    "what could go wrong?"

  7. #42
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    Default Re: Dark Harbour Knockabout Build

    I've got paint brushes hanging from the ceiling of my garage. They're positioned so that if you stop just as the paint brush touches the windshield, my Rushton won't get crushed up against the front wall.
    I was born on a wooden boat that I built myself.

  8. #43
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    Default Re: Dark Harbour Knockabout Build

    Quote Originally Posted by Rich Jones View Post
    I've got paint brushes hanging from the ceiling of my garage. They're positioned so that if you stop just as the paint brush touches the windshield, my Rushton won't get crushed up against the front wall.
    I have bright tape on the shelves that line up with the side mirrors and i usually have a cardboard box clamped to the bow on my wife's side which sticks up enough to see it move as the prius hood blocks the view pretty badly; not entirely sure she doesn't just come in until the boat moves then back up a bit... i can't really talk as last week my side view mirror caught onto things on my work bench as i backed out causing a major avalanche onto my hood...
    "what could go wrong?"

  9. #44
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    Default Re: Dark Harbour Knockabout Build

    So rather than the 'here's the next 2 planks' picture; today I thought i'd show my daily routine 'behind the magic'

    i start by removing all the previous days clamps and all but the last planks screws in the molds

    then i get the next 2 planks on each side out



    i did #19 and #20 on each side today, the rest of the prebent planks are hanging here



    all numbered and marked port/starboard; next time also will mark fore / aft as i'm always having to spin planks around in the garage; happily now i'm done with scarfed ones (<16 feet)

    i anchor the stern of the plank



    and then clamp the bow end down

    "what could go wrong?"

  10. #45
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    Default Re: Dark Harbour Knockabout Build

    then clamp and anchor the plank at each mold; sadly when i clamp and glue the planks the 2nd time around
    i've been slowly compressing the whole thing [ i left too big of gaps the first time] so instead of 600ish holes i'll end up with 1200ish



    then the second plank and trim the bow end to the center line
    i then mark the center of each mold on the edge of the plank for realigning during glueing



    rinse / lather / repeat on other side...



    I had some extra time today so prior to pulling them off and gluing i smoothed it a bit



    Still hoping to get it smooth enough to stain but will not cry myself to sleep too many nights if i need to paint it (dark green / red below waterline with 'HELP' painted in yellow...)
    i slapped a temp outer keel piece on just to see the look of it



    so i clamp the 2 side pieces together and coat the bottom edge of the planks with thickened epoxy in one go; then reinstall aft to bow using my clamp supply up 'trying' to get all edges aligned
    sorry -no pics as i now wear heavy yellow dish washing gloves to avoid the epoxy and have already coated my ipod and don't want to mess up my camera (phone) too, i had been using latex gloves but was still getting just enough epoxy on me to trigger a horrid nighttime itch making me think i was besieged by bedbugs or lice.


    off to go see what the idea family have been up to today!
    "what could go wrong?"

  11. #46
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    Default Re: Dark Harbour Knockabout Build

    I'd forget about staining for a few reasons. #1 You'll be needing tons of thickened epoxy and fairing compound to fill the gaps and make a smooth hull. Stain won't cover that. #2 I don't know of a stain that will work well with epoxy. #3 The wood using you're using doesn't look very good with stain (of course, that's only my opinion).
    I was born on a wooden boat that I built myself.

  12. #47
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    Default Re: Dark Harbour Knockabout Build

    I get a reaction to certain brands of epoxy and I am careful to wear a respirator and double nitrile gloves if I am doing any sizable epoxy work. I get a weird headache with nausea if I breathe it and fiery hot poison ivy like rash if a drop of hardener hits bare skin.

  13. #48
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    Default Re: Dark Harbour Knockabout Build

    Quote Originally Posted by davebrown View Post
    I get a reaction to certain brands of epoxy and I am careful to wear a respirator and double nitrile gloves if I am doing any sizable epoxy work. I get a weird headache with nausea if I breathe it and fiery hot poison ivy like rash if a drop of hardener hits bare skin.
    my wife's OTC (over the counter) fexofenadine (sp?) allergy medicine stopped my nighttime-insanity-causing-itching spots immediately; since the thicker glove use i've not needed it; the first 2am "nighttime-insanity-causing-itching" attack led a google search that told me i had scabies.... until i put together the epoxy / itching connection; no redness or itching on my hands which had got some exposure thru sweaty/ torn thin gloves which i thought epoxy allergies would look like

    hopefully i'll not need the respirator, it's already 80ish in Florida garage shade but i do get good ventilation
    "what could go wrong?"

  14. #49
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    Default Re: Dark Harbour Knockabout Build

    Quote Originally Posted by Rich Jones View Post
    I'd forget about staining for a few reasons. #1 You'll be needing tons of thickened epoxy and fairing compound to fill the gaps and make a smooth hull. Stain won't cover that. #2 I don't know of a stain that will work well with epoxy. #3 The wood using you're using doesn't look very good with stain (of course, that's only my opinion).
    DREAM KILLER!! ;-)

    i did get some pints of various shades of Behlen solarlux stain which is waterbased? for under epoxy use (so i read) however with my thin plank widths the many epoxy lines will probably look horrible

    also on test pieces it looks pretty artificial (not prettyas it were), haven't tried it under epoxy but might try it today

    Paint with oak rub rails / sheer plank / outer keel is more realistic plan, i've got some cedar i'll probably use for the decks which will look a bit better under cloth / epoxy



    Shiny!
    "what could go wrong?"

  15. #50
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    Default Re: Dark Harbour Knockabout Build



    Here's my plank epoxying setup; clamp both planks together and spread epoxy over the white board and move it along the other boards to catch drippings.


    Here's a solution to my cheap wood; under here is a knot causing the plank to bend unfairly, the reinforcement during glue up gets rid of ~ 80% of the problem.


    Here`s the water based test block, It is shinier in the picture.


    Spare big of cloth


    Tada! .... paint it is then...
    "what could go wrong?"

  16. #51
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    Default Re: Dark Harbour Knockabout Build




    Only 8 more planks to go!
    Stocking up on sandpaper...
    "what could go wrong?"

  17. #52
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    Default Re: Dark Harbour Knockabout Build




    Now I'm learning why it really takes so long to build a boat.
    Sanding, then after that, more sanding, and then for a change of pace, further sanding...
    My arms are still vibrating but at least I must be 3% done.
    "what could go wrong?"

  18. #53
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    Default Re: Dark Harbour Knockabout Build

    This is why I prefer glued lap construction....
    I was born on a wooden boat that I built myself.

  19. #54
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    Default Re: Dark Harbour Knockabout Build

    True the Coquina didn't need nearly the sanding of my current build.
    The price of not wrestling 4x8 sheets of ply.
    Fight Entropy, build a wooden boat!

  20. #55
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    Default Re: Dark Harbour Knockabout Build

    Unfortunately my sanding was interrupted by UPS (God bless them!)


    For I've been blessed by the Sailing Gods! Helped along considerably by forum member Kra who was donating extra sails. They looked from his diagram to be a close fit but I don't think I could have ordered sails more perfect for my build.
    80#s of sails total!




    And here is my handy work spread over the mainsail.


    The head and gaff lined up and the nearly outline each other!
    Just adjust the gaff height and both work.
    The new one is a heavier material then my construct which will be great for different winds.

    It was like Christmas here today! Thank you Santa Kra' s!!!
    "what could go wrong?"

  21. #56
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    Default Re: Dark Harbour Knockabout Build

    In regards to sanding / fairing; How smooth is smooth enough? In the spots I've started on I've got it so I can no longer feel plank to plank edges but I can feel some slight hollows / hills.

    I have a layer of cloth going over this which should fair those spots out some more?

    Also, for next step planning; (after I complete outer hull / sand hull / glass outer hull)
    I plan to steam inner ribs 1/2" by 2" every 8" or 12"? But I'd really like to also glass the inner hull as glass sandwich is strongest ( I believe) so thoughts on strongest final product;
    fair / sand inner hull then:

    1) add ribs, fillet all edges then glass OVER the ribs (which could be a huge headache) -or-
    2) glass first UNDER the ribs then epoxy the ribs in?

    Once it's all epoxied to together does it matter?

    Thank you for all input!

    Last question for now;is 6 oz cloth (that I've got 25 yards of) enough for lakes / low wave use?
    "what could go wrong?"

  22. #57
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    Default Re: Dark Harbour Knockabout Build

    Spent the day sanding.


    Also washing a sail a day, yesterday's drying from ceiling, today's soaking in bleach mix after some fun with hydroflouric acid.


    Clampa-palousa!
    Cleared out a clearance bin of 8" clamps.
    Last edited by Measures Once Cuts Twice; 06-12-2014 at 04:21 AM. Reason: pic swap
    "what could go wrong?"

  23. #58
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    Default Re: Dark Harbour Knockabout Build

    About the "cheap" pine you are using. Pine is a common boatbuilding-material in scandinavia in traditional lapstrake builds. I guess they tried to awoid knots, but I do have an old little lapstrake boat, that also have some knots in it. I guess with the epoxy-clothing it is good enough. (But I am not an expert) I have a friend who built a 26 ft cutter in pine (strip plank, cold moulding)

    Why is pine considered not suitable here.

    One more thing,,, i think it will be hard to stain the wood after gluing,,, Epoxy penetrate deep in the wood, and will resist the stain and you get discoloration i believe...

    BTW, nice thread!

    Regards Fred

  24. #59
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    Default Re: Dark Harbour Knockabout Build

    Keep it up!
    I'm waiting for the results of your two strip planking endeavours to see how the pine performs before i start my own pine strip build.
    looking good.
    did you feel the pine was at its limit of being bent?
    Mine will be 24 x 8 with 3/4 x 2" strips?
    Will they do it?!!
    Many thanks James

  25. #60
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    Default Re: Dark Harbour Knockabout Build

    I'm learning tips here, thanks.
    ''The work is teaching you the work'' : Bernard Moitessier.

    Single-handed Sailor, 1968-1969 Golden Globe Challenge, 1st around the world sailing race.

  26. #61
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    Default Re: Dark Harbour Knockabout Build

    Quote Originally Posted by Jamesh View Post
    Keep it up!
    I'm waiting for the results of your two strip planking endeavours to see how the pine performs before i start my own pine strip build.
    looking good.
    did you feel the pine was at its limit of being bent?
    Mine will be 24 x 8 with 3/4 x 2" strips?
    Will they do it?!!
    Many thanks James
    It steam bent fairly well; my (directionless) "plans"*[*page of offsets was the only page i've really used] were designed to be framed / planked, i've seen pictures now that companies making safe harbour sailboats strip planked run the bottom planks parallel to the keel.

    http://www.selway-fisher.com/SafeHarbourp3.jpg

    would copy this next time around (the dragon sized or concordia yawl sized next build, dear, we're going to need a bigger garage....)

    i plan on using bigger strips and 2 steamers next time with pre-steaming going on in my box steamer then final steaming in a longer / wider 3"? pvc pipe steamebr /> will steam one side one day and glue the other side then swap next day

    also will use ply molds as outline and line them with solid wood, the ply screw tearout is annoying; will be more work initially to build / cut / fair but will have a place to clamp to which will reduce screw holes and if you save the cut offs you'll have outer clamp blocks which exactly follow the molds

    Good Luck!
    "what could go wrong?"

  27. #62
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    Default Re: Dark Harbour Knockabout Build

    Quote Originally Posted by sailcanoefan View Post
    I'm learning tips here, thanks.


    You're welcome but I've seen your work, i don't believe you! :-)
    "what could go wrong?"

  28. #63
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    Default Re: Dark Harbour Knockabout Build

    Thanks for the info.
    i had not factored in plywood pull out.
    Will use a backing frame for transom as you suggest. The angle on the stem is slight.
    The flow of the planking should mean there isn't too much of a problem elsewhere except the first strip where the strip twists from horizontal midship to almost vertical at the stem!
    James

  29. #64
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    Default Re: Dark Harbour Knockabout Build

    I'm free!
    Took out all but 2 of the molds.





    Can see a bit more daylight then expected through some of the seams but will remedy that when the fiberglass cloth goes on [ after 2+ more weeks of sanding, still only on first side]

    "what could go wrong?"

  30. #65
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    Default Re: Dark Harbour Knockabout Build

    Before the cloth goes on, you have to fill all those voids with thickened epoxy. Than more sanding until it's fair. Just putting on cloth and epoxy isn't going to do it.
    I was born on a wooden boat that I built myself.

  31. #66
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    Default Re: Dark Harbour Knockabout Build

    Quote Originally Posted by Rich Jones View Post
    Before the cloth goes on, you have to fill all those voids with thickened epoxy. Than more sanding until it's fair. Just putting on cloth and epoxy isn't going to do it.
    I've been filling the worst bits as I go with each batches left over epoxy but with the seams I end up with 25+% draining straight thru.
    If I glass the outside then, after flipping, fill gaps from the inside with thickened epoxy I'll have a back 'wall' to push against and to hold in place while setting? Or will the gaps cause problems while glassing the outside starving the cloth of epoxy?

    1/5 of a mile in plank and seams, calculated while sanding (for a change)


    The crew, overly excited by the sanding....
    "what could go wrong?"

  32. #67
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    Default Re: Dark Harbour Knockabout Build

    The glass will sink in every void. The surface has to be perfectly closed and faired before glassing. Use enough filler so it won't seep through or better use thin woodstrips to fill wider slots.

  33. #68
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    Default Re: Dark Harbour Knockabout Build

    Quote Originally Posted by heavyweather View Post
    The glass will sink in every void. The surface has to be perfectly closed and faired before glassing. Use enough filler so it won't seep through or better use thin woodstrips to fill wider slots.
    Thanks! Just ordered 2tubs of thickener/silica.
    Faired you wants faired you gets!

    So I plan on climbing under the hull and covering any open gaps with packing tape which will keep my epoxy from running out and is easily removable afterwards.

    Just keep sanding, just keep sanding - Dory (Finding Nemo)

    Also liking the woodstrip idea- I have a couple of spots where plank seams are extra tall and between sanding the plank too thin and having too fill with a pond of thickened epoxy a woodstrip in&out will work much nicer!
    "what could go wrong?"

  34. #69
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    Default Re: Dark Harbour Knockabout Build

    The worst problem with glassing over gaps is that the resin tends to drain through, leaving cloth bridging the gap. It is saturated OK, but looks just like screen wire. The task of later fixing and filling these spots and then cleaning up the inside drips is far worse than the task of filling and fairing the gaps before trying to glass the hull in the first place. Do yourself a big favor before glassing and make sure they are all filled and that you have a smooth, fair, continuous gap-free surface to apply your fiberglass to. You also would probably find a microballoon-based filler a lot easier to sand and fair than one with a lot of silica in it. The silica makes a very hard mixture, and trying to fair really hard epoxy without cutting dents in the soft wood right next to it is quite difficult. A softer filler will still do the job fine, but will sand similarly to the surrounding wood, yielding a smoother, fairer shape.

  35. #70
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    Default Re: Dark Harbour Knockabout Build

    +1 on the microballoons. They fair out very well.
    That is a lot of pugs!
    Fight Entropy, build a wooden boat!

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